[00:00:41] Speaker 27:

Before we bring the jury in at 930, I didn't have my written instructions for the jury yesterday.

[00:03:38] Speaker 23:

you

[00:05:45] Speaker 27:

Media mic up here, please. Anybody?

[00:08:56] Speaker 08:

you

[00:09:34] UNKNOWN:

you

[00:15:39] Speaker 27:

and they deal it deals with photographs. And the state has instructed me that there was numerous photographs that they had access to and they have narrowed it down to the ones that are going to proffer in response to the motion in lemony. And I've asked them to to share those with the defense so that we can get specific objections.

[00:16:17] Speaker 31:

We've given it to the tenured group of the state. And here on my understanding of the violence, our motion deals not only with the autopsies of the crime scene photographs, my understanding is that the state is going to attempt to offer some of the crime scene photographs as well, depicting someone of the same issue that we have the issue with. I believe we have one.

[00:16:47] Speaker 27:

Okay, well, I need to listen. Let's get specific and actually, you know, show me the photographs and then I can make rulings. So it's your motion. So you want to go ahead and proceed after you've reviewed what they've tendered to you?

[00:17:05] Speaker 31:

Yes, your honor. I mean, I could honestly, I can start now. Okay. My co counsel can review. is not that some would be okay, but others not. The substance of our motion is that none are okay. And so, if you'd like me to start.

[00:17:32] Speaker 27:

Yeah, please.

[00:17:33] Speaker 31:

So, you know, as the court knows and the law has been pretty well settled for a long time, that a defendant who causes some sort of gruesome injury or death cannot be shielded from his actions under Rule 403. Our argument here though is that our client, the person on trial here, did not cause any of these injuries. He did not. Salvador Ramos caused these injuries and he is not the person on trial. I only say that to start because because that is one of the things that as litigators were, and criminal litigators were used to, is having that, I guess, that axiom of law. But in this particular case, and it's a very specific and different case, Adrian Gonzalez did not shoot any child, did not kill any child. Now, what he's charged with is endangering. The endangering does not actually It does not actually require, and in the elements, does not require them to prove that there was ever a death or to prove that there was ever any injury. Because as far as an endangering goes, it's not an element of proof that they have to make. Now, we agree and we will stipulate that all of the children that are in the indictment were either killed or injured as listed in the indictment. It is not any matter of disputed facts. And one of the cases that we talked about in the motion in Lemony is Irazzo versus State. And Irazzo is particular, the language of Irazzo is that an autopsy photograph, they're not admissible solely to show that a person died, and so their language is. In other words, the relevance value of a photograph is to show appearance. The appearance of the dead fetus in this case was irrelevant. A crime scene photograph or an autopsy photograph is not admissible simply to show the death of the individual. Our position is that's all that these are. That's all they have relevance is to show the death of. So now we're asking the court to do a four prebalancing test. The probative value in light of a stipulation is low, is extremely low. All they need is to show something that is not a dispute in the first place. But the prejudicial danger as the court has viewed these photographs, the prejudicial danger is extremely high. This was a tragedy. When we talk about prejudicial danger, does it have some, does the court have some concern that it could affect a juror irrationally to where the juror is not rationally basing a verdict on the actions of the defendant and whether or not the defendant committed the crime, but basing their verdict on the on the horrors of the photo. Again, we go back to the fact that Adrian Gonzalez did not cause, did not take a firearm, did not shoot any one of these children. We know who did cause these injuries and the deaths of these children. And so we're asking that the state not be allowed to do that. Now, I also know that in the law, that in the law there is, it is typically that the state does not have to accept a stipulation from the defense. However, there are some exceptions to that. One of the exceptions is found in Tamez, which is kind of a classic case. And that was a DWI case where the person had nine prior DWIs. The defense was willing to stipulate that, hey, he's been previously convicted twice before to get to the felony jurisdictional aspect. And the prosecution of the time said, we don't have to accept that stipulation. They went ahead and put on nine DWIs. And the court came back and reversed and said, look, There is no probative value in light of a stipulation that's going to establish the issue that you want to establish in the first place. There's only prejudicial danger after that. There's also a federal case old chief which dealt with the felon in possession of a firearm. Felon in possession of a firearm, the defendant in that case had been convicted of a sex offense against a child. The defense was willing to stipulate that that he had been convicted of a felony for the purposes of felony possession of a firearm. The state said we don't have to accept the stipulation and went ahead and presented the fact to the jury that he had been convicted of sexually assaulting a child and the court came back again and said at some point if the prejudicial danger is so high and the probe to value is so low, We do have to accept the stipulation in that sense. This is not an issue in contention or dispute. No one is disputing that Salvador Ramos went into this classroom and killed 19 children and injured 10 others, as well as killed two adults, which is not charged conduct here. No one's disputing that he did all of those things. So since there is no dispute, showing gruesome, horrible, heartbreaking photographs to the jury simply and merely to prove that the individual died or was injured is kind of a foundational fundamental for a pre-balancing test. I can think of, and I don't know if the court's seen any, but I can think of nothing that I've ever seen more prejudicial than these photographs, ever. And the probative value that the state is proffering only be because he didn't do those things to those children. It can only be to show that the children have died or were injured. And that probative value is incredibly low in light of the fact that that is not an issue that's ever been in dispute. As the court pointed out, we tried to address it in board arm, but the way we addressed it is they will hear injury and hear about it. We agree that the state can elicit testimony So they don't even have to accept our stipulation. They can elicit testimony, they're obviously free to do that, from any of the witnesses and the medical examiner and everybody else that the children suffered injuries and even they can detail the nature of those injuries. That will establish as well their element. But as far as these photographs, they are so prejudicial and the danger of that unfair prejudice affecting the fundamental constitutional right of the defendant to due process and to have a fair trial is great. And so on that issue, we're asking the court to exclude any photographs of any child who has died as a result of these injuries or has been injured as a result of this and limit the state merely or only to the stipulation by the defense or Or in addition to the stipulation, because we are stipulating and we'll stipulate from the beginning. But in addition to that, testimony from the relevant people as to the injuries if the court believes that that's what's needed to prove the element of placing the child in danger of death. So I guess on that issue, there are some other issues in the motion. But on that issue, I will pass to my opposing counsel.

[00:24:49] Speaker 27:

Okay, have you reviewed the photographs? Could you tender?

[00:24:54] Speaker 31:

Oh, yes. I'm sorry. I thought the court had seen them. I apologize. I thought you looked at him first.

[00:25:04] Speaker 25:

Really don't trust me with sharp objects.

[00:25:11] UNKNOWN:

Can I get a paperclip?

[00:25:46] Speaker 27:

Okay, so for the record, these are all autopsy photographs not seen photographs.

[00:25:53] Speaker 18:

That's correct.

[00:28:36] Speaker 32:

Thank you.

[00:30:28] UNKNOWN:

I'm sorry.

[00:35:38] Speaker 31:

when you're ready for me that I had forgotten to address, but I'd like to before. Okay, go ahead. But it's just that since the court is now seeing the photographs, where these children were shot were not decisions made by Adrian Gonzalez, how the children were shot. Some of those photographs are particularly gruesome, especially some of the injuries. But all of them are horrifying. will be horrifying to a jury. And, you know, there's one more issue that I addressed in Board Iron that the state in their indictment charged Adrian with conduct of endangering but stopped that conduct at the point when the shooter entered rooms 111 and 112. All of these photographs and everything else are from things that happened after the shooter entered rooms 111 and 112. So they have limited, what they have done is they have limited the conduct for which Adrian Gonzalez can be criminally responsible to up to the point that the shooter enters the room. And they've done that in their indictment. So if their argument becomes, well, these are somehow necessary for our proof, as we've said, they can discuss the fact that these children were killed and cause the manner of death. in their indictment itself, it stops them at, it stops Adrian, whatever they're alleging he was doing criminally, which means that after the shooter entered 111 and 112, Adrian's not being charged with any of that, with, with endangering or any of that criminal conduct or anything else. So as I said, it's, he's not being charged with, with shooting these children. He's being charged with with an omission that puts them in danger of being shot, but the indictment clearly does say that it does clearly stop at the point before the shooter goes into the room. That's important because, and I think the state will agree that these children were all killed or injured after the shooter entered rooms 111 and 112.

[00:37:38] Speaker 27:

And with that... Miss Mitchell. Okay. I'd like I said you have these cases. I'd like for you to specifically address what's been highlighted in these two cases in his offer to stipulate and ultimately his, his argument about the limitations on the indictment. But those those cases seem to be fairly on point about I think everybody can agree these are horrific photographs. I've seen a lot of autopsy photographs. These are horrendous, not so much by the nature of the injuries, but by virtue of the ages of the victims and the innocence of the victims. So certainly, there's no doubt they're prejudicial. My question is, can you address the probative value outweighing the prejudicial value they're offered to stipulate specifically in light of those cases, and the limitation in your indictment that Mr. Gauss has argued. So Mr. Turner, you may proceed.

[00:38:51] Speaker 17:

And if I could, I would start with exactly where he ended that is that the indictment ends with the government entering 111 112 indictment includes after the gunman entered rooms 111 and 112 and shot at a child or children in room 111 and 112. And so we have a fundamental disagreement about what the state has accused this defendant of doing. We've accused this defendant of being aware that children are in imminent danger and failing to act in the face of that eminence. And it's the state's position that we're not talking about one shot put the defendant on notice, not two shots put the defendant on notice, but the repeated shots that children at a Robb Elementary School over a number of minutes is what caused this. Our cases that support that proposition are when kids, other child endangerment cases, when one child is injured, evidence that that child is injured is admissible to prove that the next child is in danger also. These are caseload. Excuse me. Did you say caseload caseload in the interest of e w interest of Evie and I have excerpts of that I'll provide for the court. But in that case, it was one child was injured They introduced evidence of that child's injury because they said that was proof that the other child was in danger of being injured. So as each child is injured, another is also. I want to talk about the concept of adults and children for just a second. And we can all agree, I think it's human nature, I think the nature of child endangerment is that we give special attention because we understand that children are fragile, fragile, tender years and for them to be hurt is disturbing to all of us. But are we to now rule? that adults can be murdered and the results of that can go to a jury. Children don't get that same protection by a court in Texas. A child gets injured, but because it's so horrible, the very nature of what makes the defendant responsible for a horrible crime, we're not going to allow the jury to see the results of that. And that's exactly what the cases on photographs of autopsies and crime scenes are about. A defendant is responsible for the conduct that he causes. And in this case, it states position that he was compelled to act upon hearing 60 shots into children and it was the compelling nature of that and his failure to do that that makes this such a significant crime. We're not talking about one shot in one person, we're talking about 29 kids, 19 of which died, many of the others were injured. Each one of those children have the right to have their injuries depicted in the absence of Adrian Gonzalez active in the face of that information.

[00:42:09] Speaker 27:

Okay, so you want to address the the relative probative value versus the prejudicial?

[00:42:16] Speaker 17:

The property value is number one, we have alleged that the gunman entered room 111 and 112 and shot at one or more children in room 111 and 112.

[00:42:28] Speaker 27:

But what's the distinction between discussing it and describing it versus showing the actual photographs?

[00:42:37] Speaker 17:

The case law says if you can discuss it, you can show a photograph of it.

[00:42:41] Speaker 27:

Well, true, but you still have to consider the prejudicial versus the providence. So what what do these photographs lend to the jury in determining any disputed issue of fact that could not be done equally by description and discussion?

[00:42:59] Speaker 17:

I suppose the same would be with any injury case here. Case law has said though that that is relevant. It is indeed relevant. So what we're saying is simply because it's children because certainly people are killed with high powered rifles in the state of Texas on a routine basis. So the fact is what they are arguing makes it so horrible is just that the body is a younger person. And the younger person doesn't get the same protection that the adult does.

[00:43:25] Speaker 27:

Would you? I'm not sure those microphones are on the council table. Maybe pull that one over toward you a little bit. You don't want whoever is going to be speaking maybe get a little closer.

[00:43:36] Speaker 30:

Mama tested on I assume you push that should be a green light.

[00:43:47] Speaker 17:

From the very beginning, we've tried to explain that the whole case of child endangerment puts people in a different situation. Adults are required to act differently when children in danger. And it's because of the compelling nature of what bothers us about children. It's the whole reason we have child endangerment statutes.

[00:44:07] Speaker 27:

All right. Thank you, sir. final final rebuttal, Mr. August.

[00:44:13] Speaker 31:

Yeah, it's just, you know, to point out that even Mr. Turner said that in this in this, are we going to say in the state that adults can be murdered? And we show their pictures, but children can't be murdered. If we if if Salvador Ramos had not been shot in the eye and killed shot by police officers at the time, and he was sitting in that chair, 100% all those pictures would come in because that is his conduct and that is what he did. This is not a murder case and that's not what they're trying. Their indictment has limited it and Because we're asking you to take those things into account. Because a person who has actually done the things and made the choices of where to shoot the children, where to aim the gun, what kind of gruesome injuries to inflict upon those child. Regardless of what the state is alleging, they cannot say that Mr. Gonzalez was like that he made those choices. Because nobody else made the choices, those choices but the shooter. And then as the court's saying, We are willing to stipulate, but additionally, every person who testifies would be able to testify as to the injuries, the death, that's the only probative value that it has and the only other thing that it can do. The only other thing it can do is inflame the passion of the jury, and as we said, and as the court has seen in the evidence, it is it's one of the most gruesome and horrific things. And not only just, if you just took each child, but in total, like all the children, the 19, especially in the autopsies, if you take, and then multiple pictures of all the children, that adds up as well. And so, of course, you know, what the state would say that that is, I'm sure, is that, well, we can't leave a child out, so we need three pictures for 19 children, which then becomes this cascade of horror and And are we able to be sure that his due process rights won't be violated? Are we able to be sure that in that cascade of horror that it's not going to irrationally affect the jurors minds and make them so angry at the defendant that they don't make the decision based on the law and the facts?

[00:46:19] Speaker 27:

All right, for the purposes of the opening statement, I'm going to deny the motion in lemony. I'm going to find that my review of the photographs that the probative does outweigh the prejudicial. However, I'm not admitting the photographs at this time. Having gone through them. There are several that I may sustain an objection to, and they will not go to the jury. But for purposes of the opening statement, I am denying the motion and let me but I'm reserving my right to exclude many of these photographs at the appropriate time.

[00:47:00] Speaker 17:

Yes, sir.

[00:47:03] Speaker 27:

Yes, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, how many we have on jurors? We have one. Okay, we have, we have.

[00:47:18] Speaker 31:

There wasn't, it wasn't the sole thing of our motion, but I know that the court would like to get started. The, we believe that the state's going to offer testimony of how this emotionally, mentally affected. We just asked the court granted now that the state just be asked to approach before putting victim, victim impact state, but testimony as far as emotional, like the emotional or the mental effect that this has had on the parents or on the children who survived or anything like that, which I think is pretty typical. This would be victim impact testimony. We're asking that that be limited. That would be the other issue.

[00:47:53] Speaker 17:

Mr. Well, first of all, child endangerment is both physical impairment and mental impairment. And we do bring intend to bring experts to say how the children were mentally impaired. The survivors were mentally impaired. As to the impact on the parents, we don't intend to bring any of that in. It's not about impact. It's about where the children are endangered. Mental impairment is one of the ways children are endangered, and that's the only reason for bringing it in, is to show the PTSD, the mental impairment from the event.

[00:48:24] Speaker 31:

Your Honor, I'll just brief her about it. I have not seen, and we've looked, I've not seen any case involving mental impairment has been defined like that. Mental impairment is talking about I'm talking about actual impairment of their mental factors and processes and being able to, it would be like an injury that caused it, not a psychological impairment, which definitely is terrible. That has not ever been interpreted that I have seen, and I don't know any case law for the state, that they can put on victim impact testimony and evidence about psychological and emotional impairment in order to make it fall under mental impairment in the endangerment statute.

[00:49:08] Speaker 27:

For purposes of, as we all know, emotional alimony does not preserve any error. But I'm going to grant that motion and eliminate and I'll ask the state to approach and proffer any of that testimony so we can have a hearing outside the presence of the jury as to its admissibility. Anybody have any other matters before we bring the jury in for construction?

[00:49:34] Speaker 31:

It was part of the motion. And this is something that we typically talk about It's a motion we typically do in that victims are the word victim. These children are clearly victims. And of course, everybody at this table and everybody on the defense knows that every child who was hurt, every child, the children who were not hurt, the children who were in different rooms are all victims. Every teacher there, every adult there, victims. However, the nature of this case is to determine if they are Adrian Gonzalez's victims. And so we would ask that the state be limited to calling them the complainants or the victims of Salvador Ramos unless and until at such time as he is convicted. But as I said, There is no dispute that they are, and I'm not trying to dispute it, but obviously we are disputing that they are victims of my client and our client. We are saying that they are definitely victims but of somebody else. And so we have done that. We have put those in and put those types of motions in before because we do believe that it could have a tendency to affect the jury by them being referred to in that way before he's been convicted or before it's been established that they are his victims, if that makes sense to the court.

[00:50:57] Speaker 17:

Mr. Sire versus state cyr is the proposition that two people can be responsible for a child being victimized, the person who does the injury, and the person that has the duty to prevent the injury, both can be responsible for victimizing the child. So his whole concept that these victims are not victims of Adrian Gonzalez is completely contrary to what the law is.

[00:51:22] Speaker 31:

Well, the law is he's presumed innocent unless he's proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt to all the elements. All I'm saying is that that has not been established, obviously. And I agree that you can be, you can have two, two people can cause an injury, but they have not proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Adrian Gonzalez's omissions are responsible for any of the injuries of the children. And so I want to make clear, I am not disrespecting them that I agree that they are victims, but they are victims of Salvador Ramos. That's been 100% clearly established at this point.

[00:51:53] Speaker 17:

How? There's no evidence on that either, Your Honor.

[00:51:56] Speaker 31:

Well, I think they'll stipulate to it. I think they'll stipulate that they are victims of Salvador Ramos. Um, you know, I think this, I don't think the state is going to contest that at all. And we're obviously not contesting that either. But the, you know, I think ultimately is, is, is that their whole point is what they want to do is say that they are victims of Adrian Gonzalez before they prove beyond a reasonable doubt to the jury that that is true and that that is a fact. And so, um, And so with that distinction, I would ask that the state refer to them as the complainants. until and unless they are able to secure a conviction. And then, of course, if we went to a punishment phase to the court, they can, of course, then that's just kind of how that works. As far as they're proven, and I know the court knows that, we're just trying to prevent any danger of unfair prejudice or the jury being influenced improperly to believe that before they've proven it that these children are victims of Adrian Gonzalez.

[00:52:55] Speaker 27:

Okay, well, I'm going to sustain the motion of alimony to this effect. They can be referred to as victims because they clearly are victims, but they cannot be referred to as victims of the defendant until and if that is final argument where you have established that beyond a reasonable doubt and you wish to argue that to the jury. But they can be referred to as victims just not specifically as his victims until that is proven. If it is Okay. Mr. Goss, I hesitate to ask what else?

[00:53:32] Speaker 31:

That was that was that was it. I mean, we had a kind of a boilerplate prior convictions prior bad acts. I don't believe there are any they haven't given us any for for pay of any of that. And so I don't it's just if, of course, if if they believe that there's some prior bad act of our client, we just ask they approach first and I think they would agree.

[00:53:48] Speaker 27:

A little bit granted approach if that arises. Okay, so before the jury comes in, ladies and gentlemen, spectators media. I know the media has has agreed to some fairly strict rules and they we have a written decorum for the media. I've had several hearings in Uvalde and I've had spectators, family members, victims in the courtroom and they have behaved very well. But because of the nature now that we have a jury, impaneled and sworn I will tell you under the Nueces County local rules. If there is an outburst or some sort of a problem in the courtroom, there's not going to be warnings. It will be removal for the remainder of the case. So please be cognizant of that and honor that because we have to maintain order. And that is what their local rules demand. So let's take five minutes and we'll get the jury.

[00:54:51] Speaker 31:

Yeah, just while we're on that.

[01:01:41] Speaker 08:

Okay, everybody get their...

[01:02:54] Speaker 27:

much, sir, you may be seated in the courtroom. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, the jury, we appreciate you being here on time. As as discussed in board our yesterday there are matters that the law requires us to take up outside your presence and some of them occur during the trial. Some of some of them occur pre trial and they sometimes take longer than anticipated. But do not hold that against either side. It's mandated by law and we have to comply with the law. Now yesterday I gave you a condensed form of instructions because it was rather late in the day. So I gave you the highlights, but I'm going to read to you at this time the general instructions in a criminal case that you will be governed by throughout the trial. You can take them home with you. They make excellent bedtime reading if you have some insomnia, but they're yours to keep, but you need to follow them throughout the course of the trial. Number one, do not mingle with nor talk to the attorneys, the witnesses, the parties, or any other person who might be connected with or interested in the case except for casual greetings. They, as I told you, have to follow these same instructions and you will understand it when they do. Number two, do not accept from nor give to any of the persons any favors, however slight, such as rides, food, or refreshments. Three, do not discuss anything about the case, including with each other, or even mention it to anyone whomsoever, including your wife or husband, nor permit anyone to mention it in your hearing until you are discharged as jurors or excused from this case. If anybody attempts to discuss the case with you, report it to me or one of the officers immediately. Do not even discuss the case amongst yourselves, as I told you, until all of the evidence is closed. You have heard the charge of the court, the attorney's arguments, and you have been sent to the jury room. solely at that time to deliberate on the verdict. Do not make any independent investigations about the facts of the case. To privately seek out information about the case on trial is improper. All evidence must be presented in open court so that each side may question the witnesses and make proper objections. This avoids a trial based upon secret evidence. These rules apply to jurors the same as they apply to the parties and to myself. If you know of or learn anything about the case except from the evidence admitted during the course of the trial, you must tell me about it at once. You have just taken an oath that you will render a verdict on the evidence submitted to you under the charge and under my rulings and nothing else. Do not make personal investigations, inspections, observations or experiments, nor personally attempt to view premises, things or articles not produced and admitted in court. Do not let any third party or anyone else do these things for you. Do not tell other jurors about your own personal experiences or those of other persons nor relate any special information. A juror may have special knowledge of matters such as business, technical, professional, scientific, or he or she may have expert knowledge or opinions. or he or she may know what happened in this or some other lawsuit. To tell other jurors any of this information is a violation of these instructions. Do not seek information contained in law books, dictionaries, public or private records, or elsewhere. which is not admitted into evidence. I am further instructing you specifically that you are not to secure or attempt to secure any information of any type relating to this case from the internet, social media, or any other vehicle. Please turn off cell phones and other electronic devices while in the courtroom and while deliberating. Other than taking care of personal business, do not communicate with anyone through an electronic device such as a phone, text, email, chat, blog, tweet, Facebook, etc. Do not post any information about the case on the internet before these court proceedings end and you are released from jury duty. Do not record or photograph any part of these court proceedings. At the conclusion of all of the evidence, I will submit to you a written charge. Since you will need to consider all of the evidence admitted by me, it is important you pay close attention to the evidence as it is presented. The Texas law does permit proof of any violation of the rules of proper jury conduct. By this I mean that jurors and others may be called upon to testify in open court about acts of jury misconduct. I instruct you, therefore, to follow carefully all of these instructions which I have given you as well as any others that come up during the course of the trial which you may later receive. You may keep these instructions and review them as you wish. A violation of these instructions should be reported to me immediately. Respectfully submitted center all presiding judge with that ladies and gentlemen, you were impaneled and sworn yesterday. At this time, both sides have an opportunity to make what is known as an opening statement. What the lawyers say in the opening statement is not to be construed as evidence in the case, but they do have the right to summarize what they believe the evidence will show in the case. The state has the opportunity to go first. The defense may either immediately follow them or reserve their opening statement to the opening of their own case. So I'll ask the state to address you at this time. Did you have the indictment? Okay, do you have the amendment? Alright, ladies and gentlemen, we are going to read the indictment, but with certain qualifications that I was going to address with you, and then we'll do the opening statements. There's 29 counts as we discuss. yesterday when we did the board are both sides have agreed to not read the entire indictment. There are going to read the indictment selected counts. They are identical. They'll describe that to you. And then at the conclusion of the reading of the indictment, I will have the defendant enter his plea as to the entire indictment, each and every count there in. But once again, they're not going to read each and every one to you at this time. So you may proceed. Would you stand please for the reading of the

[01:09:35] Speaker 35:

the first two counts of the indictment. The State of Texas versus Adrian Gonzalez in the District Court of the 38th Judicial District of Evaluating County, count one. In the name and by the authority of the State of Texas, the grand jury for the County of Evaluating State of Texas duly selected and handled, sworn, charged and organized as such at the January term of 2024 of the Judicial District Court for said county and said state upon their oaths, present in to said court a said term that Adrian Gonzalez, here in Azure, saw the defendant honor about the 24th day of May, 2022. And before the presentment of this indictment in the county and state, Apple said, as a peace officer for the Vouting Consolidated Independent School District by omission, Intentionally, nearingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence, placed Jose Manuel Flores Jr., a child younger than 15 years of age, in imminent danger of bodily injury, death, physical impairment, or mental impairment by engaging in one or more than one of the following omissions. After hearing gunshots and after being advised of the general location of the shooter, by witness one, and having time to respond to the shooter, he said Adrian Gonzalez failed to engage, distract, or delay the shooter, or failed to attempt to engage, distract, or delay the shooter, or failed to otherwise act in a way to impede the shooter until after the shooter entered rooms 111 and 112 of Robb Elementary School and shot at a child or children in rooms 111 and 112. After hearing gunshots and after being advised of the general location of the shooter by witness one and having time to respond to the shooter, the said Adrian Gonzalez failed to follow his active shooter training to respond to gunfire by advancing toward the gunfire until after the active shooter shot at one or more than one child or children in rooms 111 and 112 of Robb Elementary School. and the defendant as a peace officer had a duty under the provisions of Article 6.06 of the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure to prevent an offense against a person about to be committed in his presence and use as much force as necessary to prevent the commission of the offense and no greater. And under the provisions of Article 6.05 of the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure, the defendant as a peace officer had a duty after being informed in any manner that a threat had been made by one person to do some injury to another person to prevent the threatened injury if within his power. And the defendant as a police officer of the Evalde Consolidated Independent School District had a duty under Section 37.081 of the Texas Education Code to protect the safety and welfare of people in his jurisdiction. And the said defendant did not voluntarily deliver the child, named above, to a designated emergency infant care provider under Section 262.302 of the Texas Family Code. Count 2. And it is further presented that Adrian Gonzales, here an actress, filed a defendant, on or about the 24th day of May, 2022. And before the presentment of this indictment in the county and state, aforesaid, as a peace officer for the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District, by omission, intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence, placed Uzaya Sergio Garcia, a child younger than 15 years of age, in imminent danger of bodily death, physical impairment or mental impairment by engaging in one or more of the following omissions. After hearing gunshots and after being advised of the general location of the shooter by witness one, And having time to respond to the shooter, the said Adrian Gonzalez failed to engage, distract, or delay the shooter, or failed to attempt to engage, distract, or delay the shooter, or failed to otherwise act in a way to impede the shooter until after the shooter entered rooms 111 and 112 of Robb Elementary School and shot at a child or children in rooms 111 and 112. After hearing gunshots and after being advised of the general location of the shooter by witness line and having time to respond to the shooter, the said Adrian Gonzalez failed to follow his active shooter training to respond to gunfire. by advancing toward the gunfire until after the active shooter shot at one or more than one child or children in rooms 111 and 112 of Raw Elementary School. And the defendant, as a peace officer, had a duty under the provisions of Article 6.06 of the Texas Code of Criminal Procedures to prevent an offense against a person about to be committed in his presence and use as much force as necessary to prevent the commission of the offense and no greater. And under the provisions of Article 6.05 of the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure, the defendant as a peace officer had a duty after being informed in any manner that a threat had been made by one person to do some injury to another person to prevent the threat of injury if within his power. and the defendant as a police officer of the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District had a duty under section 37.081 of the Texas Education Code to protect the safety and welfare of people in his jurisdiction. And the said defendant did not voluntarily deliver the child and give up to a designated emergency care provider under section 262.302. is for the child of Javier Lopez. Count four is for the child Jace Carmela Luevina. Count five is for the child Annabel Guadalupe Rodriguez. Count six is for the child Alexandria Anaya Rubio. Count seven is for the child Layla Marie Salazar. Count eight is for the child Eliana Torres. Count nine is for the child, Gugelio Fernandez-Fors. Count 10 is for the child, Nevea Alyssa Bravo. Count 10 is for the child, Jacqueline Jalen-Vasquez. Count 11. Count 12 is for the child, Makenna Amin-Belwar. Count 13 is for the child, Liana Garcia. Count 14 is for the child, Tess Marie Maka. Count 15 is for the child, Miranda Gail Mappas. Count 16 is for the child, Aletia Haven Ramirez. Count 17 is for the child, Maeta Yulena Rodriguez. Count 17 is for the child, Jayla Nichols Tugero. Count 19 is for the child, Amarie Jo Garza. Count 20 is for the child, Noah Oscar Arona. Count 21 is for the child Chloe Merlinda Torres. Count 22 is for the child Jordan Demetrio Olivares. Count 23 is for the child Jayden Gonzalez. Count 24 is for the child Samuel Salinas. Count 25 is for the child Kate Kendall Faith Olivares. Count 26 is for the child Mia Sevillo. Count 27 is for the child Gilberto Mata. Count 28 is for the child AJ Martinez. And count 29 is for the child Maya Zamora.

[01:18:21] Speaker 27:

Alright, once again, both sides have agreed to allow the defendant to enter the plea as to all 29 counts, but not read all 29 counts. So ladies and gentlemen, the jury all 29 counts will be set out and will be in the final charge of the jury. But at this time in regard to the entire indictment, Sir, how would you like to play guilty or not guilty? Alright, thank you. You can be seated. The court will receive your. plea in the causes. And again, typically, ladies and gentlemen, I read the indictment immediately after you're impaneled and sworn. But because of the lateness of the hour last evening, we deferred it to today. So at this time, I'd ask the state to approach and you may make your opening statement.

[01:19:11] Speaker 18:

Thank you.

[01:19:21] Speaker 17:

It was awards day at Robb Elementary. The fourth graders lined up throughout the morning and gathered at the cafeteria with their parents.

[01:19:36] Speaker 18:

To receive certificates of achievement was a day of celebration.

[01:19:46] Speaker 17:

After the celebration, they returned to their homes and to their classes. They turned off the lights and they watched movies because it was a day, it was a light day. Some of the kids got to go to recess. Just down the road was Hillcrest Funeral Home and a man named Gilbert Lemons was working at the funeral home. It was about 1130 when a truck crashed through a rail and into a ditch. So he did what any of us would do. We went to check on the driver to see if it was okay. He and Cody Brasino left the funeral home, walked across the street, got close to the ditch when they were met with a man who exited the truck and got out with a rifle, a high powered rifle. So as you might expect, they turned and ran. Shots were fired. So they call the police. They call the police for help. The gunman jumped over the fence. Deliberate pace across the pool yard to the southwest corner of building and open fire. Stephanie Hale was at the in the playground on the south end of the school. She heard the fire. And it didn't make her incapable of action. She protected the kids. She got him to safety. They went into the classrooms. They did as they'd been trained. They hid in the dark and waited for help from the police. The teachers and the kids armed themselves with scissors to confront a gunman, to confront a gunman. melody force was also out there that day. She heard the shots fired. She had a concern for the kids. She was capable of action. She ran to where the gunfire was sounded. And there were kids at the south end that were about to go to recess that were told get back in, get back in, get back in. And she doesn't leave her post until they get back in the West Wing. But she stays in there so long that when that happens, and the last kid enters, she's face to face with the gunman. And he fires on her, and she turns to run. And when she turns to run, she trips and she falls. And when she gets up, when she gets up, Adrian Gonzalez, the police officer is there. She says, he's over there. She urges him to go get it. Adrian Gonzalez says, where? Over there. He's wearing black. He's in the teacher's parking lot. as shots are ringing out. This is not confusion. He gets on the radio and says shots are fired. He's wearing black. He's in the parking lot. He knows where he is. But Adrian Gonzalez remains at the south side of the school. The government makes his way up the west side of the of the West building where the fourth graders are. He fire shots into a classroom full of children at 102. Adrian Gonzalez remains. He moves down the classroom 104, fire shots into the classroom of 104. Adrian Gonzalez remains. He moved halfway down the wing, fires more shots this time, not into the building, because there's no defect in the building. It's not going into the windows, it's not going into the bricks. It's also at the same time when forces are coming, other police officers are starting to arrive. He then hurries to the west door and enters. It's been a minute. And there's a break in the shooting and Adrian Gonzalez remains. He then walks that gunman then walks down the hallway gets to room 111 and 112 the entryway and fires in the neighborhood of 20 shots in the hallway. And Adrian Gonzales remains. The children in 111 and 112 are done as they're trained in the dark. Lights off. Be quiet. Hide and wait. for Adrian Gonzalez. And the gunshots get near and the slaughter begins. One of the shots penetrates the window going out of room 111. Melanie Flores is still urging Adrian Gonzalez to go in. She sees the shot come through the window. Adrian Gonzalez tells the police he sees the shot go through the window. Adrian Gonzalez gets on the radio and says, guys, I think he's made it in the building. This isn't confusion. Adrian Gonzalez remains. For the next minute and a half, about 60 shots go into children. Adrian Gonzalez remains. three and a half minutes into this ordeal, while Adrian Gonzalez is still standing out there. His boss shows up. Peter Gondo, along with Sergeant Coronado. They're running up adjacent to another building. Get up at the same distance Adrian Gonzalez is from the gunshots. And they hear the shots going on. And Coronado yells, what you would expect a police officer to do. Shots fired, get in the building. Three and a half minutes later. So Adrian Gonzalez joins the other two officers and Donald page who's just arrived and they go into the building. He enters the building three minutes and 45 seconds after he got there. and after the damage is done. So we ask ourselves, was Adrian, was this his first day on the job? Was he a rookie? Adrian Gonzalez was a veteran of 10 years. He'd been with the New Valley Police Department for 10 years. He'd been in the school district for a year. He had thousands of hours of training. They went to compel training, which was active shooter training, which is pretty straightforward. When you hear gunshots, you go to the gunfire. But it wasn't just active shooter training. It didn't just sit in the classroom. They practiced. They practiced, what do you do if it's in an open area, like this open area? And they trained Adrian Gonzalez how to do his job safely. And that is you look for concealment and cover. concealment means the government can't see it may not protect you if he sees that he can't see cover means you're protected. The corner of a building means you're protected. We're not asking Adrian Gonzalez to commit suicide. He has been trained to go to the corner of a building and distract delay and impede the gunman while help is arriving. But Adrian Gonzalez does nothing more than mic his microphone and tell other officers what's going on. So why are we here? When a child is in danger and calls 911, we have the right to expect a response.

[01:29:53] Speaker 30:

never see this place.

[01:29:56] Speaker 31:

I may have a military rights.

[01:29:57] Speaker 30:

Well, I got a piece on back here.

[01:29:59] Speaker 32:

All right.

[01:30:32] Speaker 31:

The monster who hurt those children is dead. And I mean, it's in its emotion. I could understand why Bill, when he talked to you, I could understand why he had emotion. I can't talk to you without it either. I think you heard me say yesterday, this is one of the worst things, one of the worst things that ever happened in our country. There's only been a few like this. This many, this young, innocent. It's awful. But Adrian Gonzalez did the best he could with what he knew at the time. Adrian Gonzalez, the prosecution got up here in the opening statement and you're going to see and Niko, my partner, he's going to come up here and he's going to go through the times after I talked to you. But you're going to see that he the prosecutor has tried to condense time at some point and then tried to stretch it out. But one of the things that you didn't hear in his opening was any preciseness of the times. We heard about a minute That's not what we're going to do in this trial. We're going to talk about what Adrian knew, what was happening second by second. So that you can understand that we're right, we know, we know that Adrian never, never was able to confront the gunman. But the prosecution is going to agree and the evidence is going to prove throughout the trial, Adrian never saw The prosecution says knowing the general location. They have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. And one of the things that you heard the prosecution say, you heard him say, that Adrian said, he's over there in the parking lot. He's over there in the teacher's parking lot on the west side of the building. What he didn't tell you was, is that when Adrian said that, and Nick was going to talk about it, but he said that. This is the parking lot on the west side of the building. When Adrian calls that out, he's over here. all the way on the other side of this building. And the, as far as being here, calling it out, the shooter had already entered the building at the time that Adrian says he's on the west side of the building in Teachers Park lot. He does not know. Adrian does not know where he is. But I want to talk about it using this map so that you can get an idea of what happened first. The issue was that, sorry. The issue was that. I'm sorry, my assistant's trying to get in touch with me. Yeah, it's fine. Where we start, and just so that everybody can understand. And you know, oftentimes in these kind of cases, we don't use the names of these monsters because That's a lot of times why they do this, right? He's a monster. A monster. What he did to these children, what you're going to see that he did to these children is horrifying, it's disgusting, it's terrible. But he didn't start with the kids. The first thing he did before he got to Robb Elementary was he shot his grandmother in the face at his home. So she gets shot in the face. He gets in a vehicle. Her house is probably a couple of blocks. So if you can imagine the map extending out here, he gets in a car he doesn't know how to drive. He gets in a car with that firearm. He comes up Grove Street here. And you're going to see you're going to see that this right here is it's a like a concrete culvert. It's got a it's got a railing here. And obviously, somebody normally would make that turn this dead ends into this culvert. After shooting his grandmother in the face he comes down here blows through this railing and his car ends up in the concrete culvert. Now, this is going to be important because if you listen to the prosecution, what the prosecution is wanting, I suppose, and expecting and trying to show you or argue in this trial is that everybody has to have perfect understanding of what's happening. But you're going to see that this is the first thing that contributes to confusion. You're going to hear that there has never been a school shooting in the United States of America that begins with somebody reckoned into a culprit like that. Now, what does this tell the police officer? And you'll hear what the evidence is going to show. This tells a police officer somebody has maybe shot an adult, maybe, maybe committed some other crime, maybe committed robbery, maybe trying to get away, or maybe is drunk and doesn't navigate the turn, or maybe was texting. Some other thing is happening. This is not how a school shooting starts. It just happens to be next to a school, and this is important. So the shooter wrecks, and as the prosecution says, there's a fence right here. He climbs the fence. This is the funeral home he was talking about. People come out of this funeral home because they see this wreck, and he does, he fires shots. Now, where's Adrian at this time? And just so you understand, this is Robb Elementary. These are all the buildings in Robb Elementary. Robb Elementary does not have an officer that's there all the time. So he is not the officer for Robb Elementary. He's not the police officer that's there. He is not at that school. He is actually at a park because he typically works at the high school. And he's at the park with a bunch of the students who they're they're having their there's a different kind of celebration. As the prosecutor said, this is towards the end of the year. So students are it's not as we all remember in elementary and even high school, once you get to the end of May, you're not doing a whole lot except award ceremonies, talk to parents, all those other things, watching movies in the classroom, things like that. Adrian is away from here at this at that other at this park but he hears the call. He's not the officer actually assigned to even take this call. The call comes out as an accident. A car has crashed into this culvert. He's not the officer assigned. There's a different officer, you'll see, that actually comes up here later on and the person assigned to the call doesn't ever do any of the things that you're going to see that Adrian did. But he gets a call to crash and he says, Okay, I'll go out and see what's up, see what's going on. You'll hear a particular thing about Uvalde. Uvalde has a population of people who are undocumented. You will hear that 50 times in a two-month period is typical for there to be some sort of accident or bailout involving people who are undocumented. It's one of those things that's particular to Uvalde and particular to the region. It's one of those things that officers deal with all the time, and it's one of the things schools deal with all the time. And this is important because when that crash happens, the school does not go into lockdown. Why doesn't the school go into lockdown? Because nobody is expecting that this is a school shoot. They're expecting that this is a drunk. This is somebody getting away from something else. Now, why is that important? Even when he's advancing or leaving his car, what they can see and what they can tell at the time is not telling anybody that he is trying to get into this school to hurt any children in this school. He is trying to get away from the scene of this crash. And that's one of the themes that threw out is that what's happening with this particular situation is confusing the police about what actually the intentions are of this person. They start setting up perimeters that you'll see later because they're thinking he's trying to just get away from them. Nobody's thinking, we know now, they know now, everybody knows now that he was messaging people that he's about to go shoot up a school. Everybody knows now that he was disturbed, that he was a monster, that he was trying to do this. He was speeding towards the school to do it and just happened to have not negotiated the turn and went into this culvert. But at the moment, that's not what it looks like. That's not what it looks like to him. It's not what it looks like to anybody. It's not what it looks like to anybody, any of the officers that come up. But then there is gunfire. And that's important, so he shoots here towards the funeral home. At the same time and around, Adrian is starting his response. And Adrian also comes up Grove Street. And this is important. They'll talk to you about the fact that there was Melody Flores. As Ramos is walking this way, and he does walk, he starts to walk, shoots here, starts walking this way. You'll hear that people from the funeral home, the homes up here, can see that he's that he hide behind cars and they call that in. But that's not something communicated over the radio to the police. But they do call it in that he is here in the parking lot. By the time Adrian is getting here to the property, he understands he starts to understand because now the people are calling 911. They'll talk about and now they're saying the shots are fire. So Adrian here as he's coming down here, He starts to hear shots are fired. This is a gate that gets onto that school property. It should be closed. It wasn't. And Adrian drives right through here. So he is responding and you're seeing shots fired. Hearing shots fired. Understanding, okay, this is not just an accident anymore. And then you'll hear the Melody Flores, the teacher that the prosecution talked to you about, the teacher that the prosecutor said, well, well, she she acted, right? And we agreed. She did see kids and she told him we talked about the west, the west part of the building, south part of the building, west part of the building, south part of the building. She told him, get back inside, get back inside as she's here as she's over here telling them this, and he's here firing rounds and you're going to know that that's where he's around this area firing rounds. Adrian is coming here. Once Ramos is behind these cars in the parking lot, Adrian doesn't see him at all. Never does the prosecutors never. He never saw never ever saw not in his life ever saw this gun. Gunman's here. Flores is here. Adrian sees Flores from that distance. and thinks that she may be the government or that she may have or somebody who doesn't know if it's a man or a woman. You'll see the distances. It's too far to tell. But he thinks that this is he's hearing that there's a person he thinks hearing that he knows their shots fired. He believes that this person is either grappling with a gunman or is the gunman themselves. The reason he thinks that they might have grappled is because as Bill said, she trips and she falls in and this is all dirt. So there's like this cloud of dust and it looks like from that distance. What does Adrian do? He acts. You will watch him and there's a camera from this funeral home that will show this. He comes in and he spots her. He zeros in on her, doesn't know it's a her, doesn't know it's a coach, doesn't know it's a teacher. Thinks that that's what he's there to respond to. Thinks that that's potentially the danger that he's there for. And he drives straight to her. He goes straight at her until he gets here. And this is where Adrian ends up parking his car, and you'll see that Adrian parks here. She falls down here in the dirt. Remember, this is the south side of the building. Five seconds, five seconds after he gets out of the car and realizes this isn't a gunman and this isn't there's nobody else here but her, and he's trying to ask what's happening. Five seconds after that, the shooter starts shooting into the side of this school. And he does. You can see by the shell casings, the line here, and you'll hear that shell casings when a gun is fired, they go back, slightly back into the room, slightly back into the room. And you can use the shell casings. There's never any over here, so he wasn't over here firing at Melody Flores. They're here, and they go right up the building here, until it gets in here. What they're talking about is the gunman is moving up this school. And these distances, when you go and you see it in person or you see it in some of these videos, see the pictures, it doesn't do it justice. This and this, there's nobody that can see or understand here what's going on over here. There's not. She is telling him, but she's going to testify to you that when he got out, she told him he's in the building. And she was 100% wrong. He was standing right here, shooting here. And that's okay that she's wrong. We're not requiring her to be right. This is the most tragic day of Melinda Florence's life. It's the most stressful thing that she's ever been through. But as the prosecutor says, Adrienne says, well, she's telling me that he's over there and that he's wearing black. And what did Bill say? He said, well, what did he do? He didn't do nothing but call and radio for other people to come. That's what police officers are supposed to do. Whenever you hear information, you have to call it out to everybody else for everybody else's safety. So you'll hear that at that time now, three officers arrived right here. One of them has arrived. They see him about to go on the door. One of them asked for permission to shoot. Permission, there's not even a chance for a response. Because by the time that they turn around, he's gotten inside. Adrian doesn't know any of this. Didn't see any of this. They see it because they are there at a direct line of sight to that door, to that west entrance. Adrian is dealing with a woman. who is going to tell you and going to testify to you that she's telling Adrian that he's in the building. But it's clear that these gunshots as he's moving up this building, it's clear that those gunshots are coming from outside. What Mr Turner said was that he was supposed to make it to the corner of this building here. That's what he's talking about. Make it to the corner and distract delay. The distance from this point to this corner, there's nothing in between. And you'll hear that Adrian is doing as he's supposed to do. Once these gunshots happen, once he starts shooting into this side of the building, Adrian thinks they're taking fire. He does. He gets to the front of his car and he's trying to use the car as cover. There's a car. He has his car. This corner of the building is about 45 seconds away, walking from where his car is, maybe 30. 32, 33, 34, 35, depending on how fast you walk or run. But you have to run through open. But his car is right there, so he doesn't do nothing. He gets behind his car to try to figure out where the gunfire's coming from. You're gonna hear that these officers here, as the shooter is shooting into the building all the way up, these officers here, they think that the gunfire's coming at them. Because of the nature of gunfire, we're going to talk about it. Once you have a rifle fire, it's going to bounce. And it bounces off of these structures. And it echoes. And it comes back to the people. And it causes confusion. Pow, pow, pow, pow. So they think that the shots are coming at them. The shots aren't. But it's understandable they think so. He thinks they're coming at him. She's going to tell you that she's telling him that he's in the building when he knows that he's not in the building. But when he calls out that he's on the west side, you'll know when he understands and knows when Adrian finally figures out where he is. Their indictment says knowing the general location of the shooter, he does call out on the radio of the general location of the shooter. One second after the shooters already entered the building. When Adrian is saying that he's by the parking, he's by the cars in this lot, he's not there. He's inside. These guys saw him go in. These guys here saw what happened. Adrian is here and cannot see that. Now, other things begin to happen. So at a certain time, at a certain time, and even you're going to hear these guys, they still don't know what his intent is. They think that they're setting up here. They're trying to figure out. They know he's wrecked and he shot at these people. They're assuming that he's trying to get away from them. Nobody still is assuming this is going to, this is what ultimately happens, this tragedy. Once something like this happens, Right? This was the only in the first time ever that a school shooting starts with a wreck and a culprit. Now, it's part of the training. Don't get confused. Don't get confused by the fact that there may be other things going on. Just like if there's a robbery at this funeral home and somebody's running out of the funeral home, it's not the first assumption back then for a police officer to say, oh, he's robbing the funeral home, then he's going to run over here and he's going to go into the classrooms and shoot the children. It's not the first assumption. Now, of course, that doesn't excuse it. It's just it's wrong. It contributes to the confusion. So as we get here, you'll see that I think Bill said, you know, his boss arrives. What happens is, is that some of the officers, as he's going in this way, some of the officers bring the car around to try to figure out, like, is he trying to get around here? You'll see the Coronado and you'll see the Chief Arradondo come this way. and this way to where Adrian is. By the time that they talked to Adrian, you have Sergeant Page pulled in and arrived. So what's happening is is that Adrian is trying to call it out. He sees other people. He then hears and understands eventually when Sergeant Page gets there as he's trying to brief him about what's happening. He hears that he's in the building. And Adrian is one of the first three people to go in. This is not a man that does nothing. This is not a man that is sitting and doing nothing. It's a man who is confused. It's a man who's talking, who has made assumptions that are understandable that turned out to be wrong. But he was trying. He was going towards that danger. And this is a man who when it was time, and they are standing here, and it's time. Because you'll hear that Coronado did say, like, he's in the building, we've got to go. But Sergeant Page never said any of that. Sergeant Page said, we're standing there, we hear the gunshots from inside the building, we made the decision. Everybody's kind of making that decision at the same time. The first three people to go in, when Adrian goes in there, when he goes into the building, Sergeant Page is in front of him, and he goes in behind him in the building, the gunman comes out of the classroom and takes shots at other officers coming in from the other side. Adrian Gonzalez did not fail to act. The gunman turns that way instead of that way. He's right in the line of fire and he was willing to be there in a hallway with a rifle with no real protection from a rifle. They had nothing that would protect him from a rifle. This that wasn't going to stop the rifle. If he turned around and shot him right in the chest right past the Kevlar that that bullet kills him and he did. He went in. He's one of the first in the building. But they get backed off because the shooter does not come out of the classroom. But you'll see in the videos. It does not come out. But the gun comes out, shoots at other officers that are trying to come from the other way. They back off. You're also going to hear that Adrian hit his radio. None of the officers radios, and you vow the ISD, none of them, you'll hear what they say, break. That just means none of them work. They cannot communicate inside the building. his chief tells him to go out of the building in Paul Swat, Adrian Dust. You'll also hear that as people start arriving, right, because eventually there'll be 374 officers that arrive. They, in any of the indictment they read, they are not charging Adrian with the conduct of any officer in that hallway. anybody that was standing there, anybody that was getting hand sanitizer or anything that you might have seen. He is not being charged with any of that conduct. He is not being charged, in fact, with any other conduct of his. The only thing that the only the where they stop is they stop after the shooter enters 111 and 112 and shoots at her in the direction of children. That's where that's where it stops. So what the state tried to make you believe was this insane amount of time that he had to do all these things. From the time that he's here, from the time he first contacts Melody Flores, to the time the shooter goes in the building on the side is about one minute. That's what we're talking about. It's about one minute. So he's trying to get this information, understand it, communicate it, figure it out, and also protect himself and the teacher. I mean, he's trying to make sure that both of them are not being shot at, because they don't know. That's one minute of time. This isn't a man waiting around. This isn't a man failing to act. They're not going to prove that. But what they are going to do, I'll tell you, they'll talk about it too, what they are going to do is they're going to show you the worst things that you've ever seen. You will not come out of this trial for the same person in your heart. I'm not.

[01:53:31] Speaker 30:

They're not.

[01:53:33] Speaker 31:

They're not. It's traumatic. They're not. Nobody would be the same. And we're not comparing what we've seen, but you can't imagine the pain. And what the prosecution wants you to do is see that, see those horrible things, and get so mad at Adrian that you convict him. So mad at Adrian that you say, convict him because of this horrible thing that's happened. And I can't even describe it, what they're going to do. They're going to try to play on your emotions. They're going to try to do that. The monster who did this to these kids, the monster who hurt these children is dead. He is dead. He doesn't get this justice. Hopefully he's got a different one. But he doesn't have this justice. There's not going to be this trial for him because he was shot and killed as he should have been by police officers on the scene. So now they're looking for somebody to put in that chair. put you in these chairs. But showing you those pictures after going to them, I want you to be prepared for it. And I want you to know that it's going to hurt you. And I want you to know that it hurts us to think about anything these kids went through. It's terrible. I told y'all yesterday, I got a four-year-old, one-year-old. It's the hardest thing to go through. But what the judge will tell you is the house. is that the law and the evidence are the only things that can guide you here. The only things you can use to come to your verdict. And I'd ask Mr. Cote to address you at this point.

[01:55:26] Speaker 12:

I mean, Jason laid it out for you. I'm going to go over some specifics. We're going to talk about those photos in a second. And I think Jason appropriately talked about them. And he's right. I mean, there's an animal involved in this situation, a monster. And he's no longer here. And that monster can't sit in that chair. And so what we have to do is we have to deal with what the government is doing and trying to have you focus on, because the monster's not here. And so the phrase that you're gonna hear throughout this trial that law enforcement talk about a lot is called totality of the circumstances. And I'm gonna ask you to keep that in your mind. We're gonna ask you as we go over some of the specifics that Jason talked to you about, because this is dynamic. There wasn't a call initially for school shooting. You're gonna hear something called a 10-50. It's an accident. As Jason said, there was an accident. There was an accident and Adrian was doing his duty at the high school. You're gonna learn at the school You're going to hear about a lot of the school, and I'm not here to protect the school. I really don't care because the school has a lot of blame. And you're going to hear other agencies gave the school a lot of blame. And one of the things that they should be blamed for is they didn't have a full-time officer. Adrian's full-time at the high school. Adrian said, well, there's an accident. I'm going to help. It's a small community. The agencies help each other, DPS, Uvalde PD, Independent School District. They all help each other, and they share radio transmission. And by the way, we're going to ask you to focus on the radio transmission. It's very important what was transmitted and what officers knew or didn't know during this very fluid and dynamic situation. So this is just a, we're going to go over this briefly, okay? So this is what we're talking about. Not to scale up, it's cool. You're going to hear about. Give me one second, guys. Thank you very much. Sorry, guys. Okay, so you're gonna hear it. At 1128, at some point, we don't know for sure, but maybe around 1120, this monster shoots his own grandma. And so this monster gets in a car and he thinks he's running away from a murder of his grandma. And so he's coming down and you may hear, you will hear, that he tells people online, I'm gonna shoot up the school. There's times in there and that's what we don't know exactly when he shoots his grandma, because he did that before and after. Not to law enforcement, not to 911, to online people. But 11-28-23. He wrecks in that culvert. He doesn't manipulate the corner properly and he crashes. You're gonna hear Gilbert Limones, as Bill said, call 911. You're gonna hear the 911 video from Gilbert. And it's gonna be emotional. Because Gilbert's walking out there, you can hear it, saying there's an accident. He's walking out there, oh God, oh God. They're shooting, he's shooting at me. Because as they were going to the culvert to help, this monster is shooting up at them from the culvert. He runs back. He lets the dispatch know he's walking to the school. He's walking to the school, and you will hear Gilbert, and I assume he's going to testify, and say, in the name of Jesus, Lord, please protect those children. Oh, God, please protect those children. Please hurry. Yes, sir, we're on their way. But what I want you to focus on is how was that dispatched? Incident involving a gun, not shooting at a school. Again, bailouts. Jason talked to you about what you're going to hear about bailouts and how many they have. This community deals with those type of bailouts. And so he deals with that. Between 1130 roughly, 05, and 1131, 34, he's going to walk very deliberately, as Bill said, towards the school. At some point, he starts shooting at the school from the parking lot. You will also hear not just Gilbert, the funeral owner, say that she saw him hiding between cars. It's important. So at some point, Adrian realizes, because it's very unclear on the dispatch, you'll hear it yourself, that there's a gun involved. Not towards children, there's just a gun involved walking towards the school. So Adrian knows in his mind, instantaneously, that this is not just a crash, it's not a 10-50, something with the school. And so he's driving, and at 11-31-41, Here's Melody, and she's helped, to Bill's point, she's yelling at kids to stay in the building, okay? So she's out here. You're going to see Adrian drive all the way into the complex and drive back here. It's important. This is the east side of the building. This is going to be considered the west side, and you will see the south side, and this is the west side, excuse me. He makes contact with Melody. Now, there's some other times that are important. This is at 11 31 55, roughly. Okay, times are gonna matter on this because they're trying to hold Adrian accountable for what he did or didn't do and what he knew and didn't know and that's important. So at 11 31 55, he's parked and he gets out of his vehicle and makes contact with Melody. Now, at 11 32 09, It's not on here, but 11-32-09, he dispatches and he says, shots fired, shots fired. So now he's taking cover. What's important though, it's here, is that 11-32-23, Officer Mendoza shows up at the corner on the west side of the building. Pay attention to these times. He's already shooting. He's shooting at the side of the building. He shows up. He says shots fired. No one is gonna testify that Adrian could see anything. And you'll see some pictures. It is, he's way over here, way over here in his car. You'll see the picture. And then the shooter, that monster is walking up, taking shots, but he has no line of sight. Line of sight is important in this trial. 11-32-29, Officer Sacedo shows up on the west side of the building. Remember where Adrian's at? He's with Melody on the south side, but way where he can see the east side. 1132, Sergeant Coronado shows up. Remember when Bill said his boss? His boss showed up a lot sooner than one running over here. There at this point, you will hear that Officer Mendoza believed he was under fire. Now, this is important because you're going to hear about echoes and vibrations and when people are shooting your buildings and how it sounds. Melody thinks she's being shot at. All I can tell you is, do we believe that she's being sincere? We do. She has no reason to lie about that. What you're going to find interesting, I think, and we think it's interesting, is that she comes in to talk to law enforcement seven days later. They don't go to her. She's not interviewed the next day. Seven days after this incident, she comes in and says, I have something to say. She's listened to the media. She's watched all reports, and she comes in. And I'm going to say this respectfully, because we're not going to try to beat her up. We're just going to talk to her. She's wrong about almost everything. She describes Adrian as Officer Page, completely describes him differently. She says that the shooter, that monster, didn't have a rifle. For sure, he had a handgun. She thought that he shot at her. And all we can say, and the government will have to admit to this, but there's no evidence going to show, You're going to hear something called defects. It did damage from any type of gunfire. There's no objective evidence that there was any shooting this way. No shells or rounds over here. No holes through holes through the buildings. These are just metal buildings. So an AR-15 would have gone straight through that. No evidence of that. So she's wrong about a lot of things. And then she's also wrong and she tells the Ranger, of what door and how this animal got into the building. She's wrong about all that, okay? And we think it's very sincere, by the way, but this is seven days later. So these gentlemen are here, these officers are here, Mendoza, Sacedo, and Coronado. At these times, now these times are important, okay? These times are very important. We talked about 3209, Adrian radio shots fire. So Ramos is walking up this side of the building and he gets into the school. And that's important. Because we're going to talk about, and you're going to hear about agencies evaluating, different agencies, and I'll tell you about who they are in a second, evaluating this incident. And every one of them wonders why this school door is unlocked. This school door is unlocked. This school door is supposed to be locked. I get passionate because that school door should have been locked. And you're going to hear evidence. that if there was anything that could have changed this incident, if that school door was locked, then it should have been. So he gets into the school at some point. This monster enters the school at 1130 to 58. These gentlemen have been at this scene, these officers, long before that, on the west side, not the south side, with a long rifle. Not a handgun. With cover, because their car is there in a formation. So you're going to hear Sausaldo shows up at the time he does, literally seconds after Mendoza. Mendoza thinks he's taking fire, but there's no evidence that Ramos shot that way. Zero evidence. They're not even going to try to assess that. I mean, claim that. But still Mendoza thinks, and he talks about, he describes it. He's getting behind the car, he's trying to get behind the engine block. Saucedo drives up and blocks him so he can cover his cover officer, which I understand that if it was really happening. Saucedo gets out with a rifle. Coronado shows up. Sarge, can I shoot? No response, turns back, and they acknowledge he went into the building. There's an acknowledgement from these officers that he went into the building. but they didn't go to the building. And we're not trying to say blame them also. I'm just saying this is fluid. They think because of all these bailouts. Can I just tell you, we think the evidence is gonna show, we know it's gonna show, because the officers were thinking this. This is not Adrian, this is them right now. Mendoza, Saucero, and Gornado. They couldn't even wrap their head around the fact that this potential could be a school shooting. They thought that this person with a gun was trying to get away from officers and was gonna cross through the school to go out the east side of the building. That's what they thought. That's what you're going to hear them say. Let me tell you what's super important, because Bill told you, the government told you, that Adrian is assessing the situation. You're going to hear about that. You're going to hear about observing, orienting yourself to the situation, deciding the act. It's called OODA loop. You're going to hear about evidence like that. This is objective evidence, not anybody's opinion, because you're going to hear it yourself at 11-32-59. One second after this monster got into the building, Adrian calls out. He should be on the west side, supposed to be wearing black. Why? Because Melody's with him, telling him information. And he's collecting data. He's heard shots. He doesn't know where that's coming from. Everybody thinks they're being shot at, including Melody, including these officers. And he does what his training tells him to do, relay information. He's relaying information. He's not seeing anything. Nothing's been done in his presence. When they ran out the end, nothing was done in his presence. In his presence. He relays it. These times are critical. And we're going to humbly ask you to stay focused on these times. He's reporting as he's receiving information. Note what's going on where he believes he should be near the teacher parking lot. He's already in the building. And then 22 seconds later, he is shooting into those classrooms. And then seconds later, he's in the classroom. Opportunity and ability. This is what it's going to play out to. I know when you speak in generalities, it's easy to make an accusation until you have to peel the onion back, until you have to come into specifics. And we've asked you guys. We asked for your permission in jury selection if we could ask tough questions. And it's always tough to ask tough questions about a tough case and sensitive situations. That's why we ask you those specific questions. But we're going to do it because we have to. But this is what the evidence is going to show. And the government's going to have to stand up. when this is all over and after you've heard all the evidence. And they're going to have to tell you, they're going to have to say, we want you to hold the man responsible that as he walks into this fluid situation, drives into this fluid, goes to the danger, drives into the storm because he thinks that he's going to this person, this suspect with a gun. He doesn't stick back and create a perimeter with all respect to these officers. He goes in. And then he realizes it's the coach. At the time, he didn't know that. And you'll see the funeral video, like Jason said. And they're going to have to say that when he radios, because that's when he knows, Melody's with him. She's not going to know what time. A second after, he's already in the building. How can he delay, distract, or deter someone when he doesn't see him? He's completely on the opposite side of a building, and by the time he finds out the situation, observes an audience, and communicates, he's already in the building, and seconds later, this animal is stealing children from Uvalde community. So what the government will say and do, is they'll want you to focus on Coronado's video. Remember Coronado, the one that was here initially and was asked to shoot? And then, and he'll talk to you about, and then go to this side and you'll see him running up from the other side. You'll see his body cam video running up this way. One thing that we're gonna, we want you to focus on though, is his body cam video and Mendoza's body cam video, they have body cam videos. They both interestingly start at 11, 35, 10. Write it down. 11, 35, 10. At the same time, because someone from the government's investigation synced all these videos together. And I shouldn't say all of it. There's not that many, but synced all these videos together. And they both started 11, 35, 10. You saw what time they showed up. There's got to be body cam from when they were here talking, perceiving things. They both, and that's what you're gonna see, and so as Coronado is running at 1135, 10, he's already come all the way around, and he meets Chief Arredondo, and then they start running up. And then they finally run into Mel, because she leaves Adrian's point and goes to the school. She leaves, and Adrian stays there and can cover, and he had communicated information. And you're gonna hear that Lieutenant Baragas shows up, and then eventually a Sergeant Page shows up, who Melody describes as Adrian, and she was mistaken about that. And then as Coronado and Erdogan are walking up and running up, there's shots fired. Now you will see, and we anticipate that the government will focus on this, on Coronado's body cam, it's moving, that you see Adrian and Paige standing there. Now they're not standing there. eating something or they're standing there talking. Adrian had head cover. Paige drives up. There's a realization that he didn't take any fire. So they get out. Sergeant Paige gets out and it's really a moment. You're walking there like this. You're going to see them walking towards the school. Then they hear shots fired. We can hear Sergeant Coronado say, get in the school. And he said, oh shit, get in the school. And he's yelling and he's out of breath. But there's no evidence that neither one of them heard him. They were so far from him. God bless. They didn't hear him. And they immediately run into school. Immediately run into school. They're one of the first ones, if not the first one, for Paige and Adrian in the school. And then there's some officers on the other side. And as he said, they take fire. That's what this is going to boil down to. But we anticipate they're going to want you to focus on that, on literally that moment, that second that you see Adrian and Sergeant Page standing there and then walking towards the school and then they sprint into the school and you see Adrian's gun drawn and he's in the hallway. It goes in again. We also think They're going to focus on time to enter because Bill talked about that in opening. There's three minutes and whatever seconds. There's a lot going on in these three minutes. We're going to focus and break it down. It's not about just saying there's three minutes because their indictment doesn't cover all three minutes. Their indictment covers what they decided to prosecute on is when he made it all the way, that animal made it into the building. and then starts shooting into the school. Remember? At 11 33 22. That's what it specifically covers, because that's when the assaults begin. Not the three minutes and whatever seconds after, as many officers are on the scene at that time and surrounding the school. But we'll talk about that, and we'll cross examine on that, and you'll hear evidence about that. And then they're going to focus on melody floors. And I kind of gave you a heads up about melody floors. She's just wrong about a lot of things. And it's traumatic, it's stressful. As Jason said, and I'm not saying this to scare you, but we talked about this injury selection. None of us, you will not leave this trial the same. You just won't. And thank you for taking on this role, but we're going to talk about the photos in a second. But Melody's wrong about a lot of things. Her times, she's with Adrian, not sure how long. So Adrian's dealing with her at the time, and she's with him. There's shots being fired. She sees bullets, glass breaking. Officers are coming. They're around. You're going to hear radio dispatch. Again, that's going to be really important about what's being communicated to the officers by the dispatcher and by other officers. in the comfort of a courtroom as one of the rangers, during their investigation you would hear, say, with 20-20 hindsight and playing Monday in the morning quarterback. That's from a Texas Ranger, not from us. Because you're going to hear about interviews. And so they're going to really want you to focus on these photos. And I wish they wouldn't. Not because it hurts us, because that's what they want those photos to do. It's because it hurts those precious people over there. That's why. I shared with you in Bordei what my family's been through, and so I get it. I get it. And so we're gonna ask you to really, well, if you have to get emotional, you get emotional. You may. I anticipate you will, depending on what you see. This is emotional. This is an emotional trial. People are going to get emotional. Bill's a good man. He got emotional. But we're going to ask you not to make a decision off emotion. Because that doesn't bring justice to anybody. But I do want you to focus on this. There were multiple agency investigations. Multiple. The DOJ did an investigation. With all the evidence that the government's going to show you, there's not some secret evidence, with all due respect to them, that they're going to show you that the DOJ didn't see. Texas House of Representatives did an investigation. They had a committee. There's not new evidence going to be presented to you that they didn't see. This report has a lot of criticism to go around to the school. It really has to do with that door. And other things, by the way. Radios that can't work inside. Officer not assigned to the school. Lockdown procedures that weren't followed. A lot of things. Way to communicate. Individual locks. The actual classroom, 111, wasn't locked. 111 wasn't locked. You'll hear some evidence of, could it even be locked? And did they know about it? And what should have happened? You're also going to hear evidence of the Uvalde police policy from 2015, whether it's ever been replaced about how officers are supposed to respond. Should they wait for backup cover? Should they communicate? Should they observe? And training is going to matter in this case. And so we're going to ask you to stay focused. You're going to hear a lot of training.

[02:15:45] Speaker 35:

Again, totality of the circumstances of what I'm going to jack to him talking about evidence. I mean, he's supposed to be doing an opening statement, outline the evidence are going to present right now. He's talking about third party investigations. those agencies did not have the full investigation of the evaluated jury. And I think that unless he says that the evidence will show you that they're going to present about this third party investigation, I think this isn't doing nothing but misleading the jury as to the evidence that they're going to hear in this case.

[02:16:13] Speaker 12:

I think that's right for cross-examination, Judge.

[02:16:15] Speaker 27:

All right, I'm gonna rule the objection once again. Ladies and gentlemen, what the lawyers say an opening statement is not be construed as evidence. They're summarizing what they believe the evidence will show. If the evidence doesn't show that you can recall that.

[02:16:27] Speaker 12:

Thank you. Just may proceed. Thank you, honor. Department of Homeland Security reviewed evidence. Say the avali hired Mr Prado reviewed evidence. And what you see Adrian fully cooperated every time. He wasn't in a corner hiding. He didn't hold information. He cooperated. He talked. He talked to investigators. He talked to the Rangers. He talked to whoever wanted to talk to him because he wanted to help. We're going to ask you to focus on what the evidence will show Adrian did. He took the call. He took the call to go to a school that he wasn't assigned to. He drove to the suspect into the storm thinking that it was the person that had this gun walking towards the school. He gathered information the way his training told him to do. You're gonna see, he's supposed to gather information so he can let other officers know what's going on. He went into a building. After relaying that information, one of the first to go in is we talked about. He called SWAT because he was asked to call SWAT because those radios couldn't work in the building. Like Jason said, break, I can't break, I can't break, meaning I can't communicate, so he goes outside to do that. Many officers are on the scene at that time. He stood perimeter because he didn't know if he was watching the east side. He's on the south side. There's a west side. Other officers are inside by this time. And so he stood perimeter at the school. He tried to find out if class was even in session. He didn't even know if class was in session. They needed to find out. You're going to hear that the officers were, are there kids in the school? They didn't even know. There wasn't certainty that even kids were in the school. Remember, he's coming from a high school. They call it Mexican Park, right? That's the way they call it in Uvalde, where many of the high schoolers were there. So these kids are even in the school. It's not his school. This is not where he patrols on a regular basis. And you're going to hear evidence he evacuated children. You're going to see it on Coronado's, they're breaking windows and they're getting kids out as now they're waiting and they're waiting for, you're going to hear Bortek. These are people that have rated shields that can take a high-powered rifle because they weren't under-resourced. That community was under-resourced. They didn't have a shield, a rated shield for a high-powered. You're going to hear that there are shields for handguns and then there are shields for high-powered rifles. And they were waiting for that. So he's evacuating children from other classrooms on the other side. And he's checking on Ruiz. You're gonna hear about an officer, Ruiz, Ruben Ruiz, who he communicated with, it's a tragic part of this. He's talking to his wife, and she's been injured. She passed. And Ruiz wanted to go inside, and so, and I love my wife, and who wouldn't want to just go in there, you know? And they took his gun away from Officer Ruiz. And so, and Adrian kept going back and checking on him twice. He's doing all these things at the same time. Got the building plans, because they were asking for it, because people didn't understand the layout of this building. He got that for them. And he ultimately secured the master key, because they needed the master key. And then you're going to hear some tactics about how you breach an outward swinging door versus an inward swinging door, and what is needed, and whether they had the equipment to do that. The evidence will show they didn't. This is what Adrian did. I mean, the government wants to make it seem like he just sat there. he didn't just sit there he did what he could with what he knew at the time and this was fluid and it was dynamic situation and and we're gonna ask you and I don't know I don't know how you do it and we all have to do it a different way is to stay focused on this because this is going to be emotional And because we want justice, right? We talked about that. We talked about that, that our system works off of you and Lady Justice with a blindfold. And that's what we're going to have to, we're going to ask you to do. Because evil is not rectified with injustice. Pure evil, that precious community, It did. It's not rectified with injustice. And so at the end of this trial, we're going to come back to you and humbly ask you to consider the law and the facts and properly apply them. And we're going to be requesting and asking for a verdict of not guilty. Thank you for your attention.

[02:21:03] Speaker 27:

Has anybody broken the rules? of your witnesses are the rule has been invoked. So please instruct them and don't let them come into the courtroom play while the testimony is going on. Ladies and gentlemen, I see some of you are taking notes, which is great. I'll instruct you at this time if that assist you in concentrating on the evidence, please do it. But I will tell you when you go back to deliberate, the bailiffs going to hold your notes because if there's a conflict as to evidence, we rely on the official court record. But if it helps you in concentrating, please continue to do it. Can I see your orders up here real quick on an unrelated matter?

[02:24:05] Speaker 23:

Okay, yep. if you are being accountable to that.

[02:25:55] Speaker 25:

Good morning, sir.

[02:25:56] Speaker 27:

Would you raise your hand for me, please? You saw me sort of the evidence in the testimony to get in this cause of interest. So yes, sir. Have a seat. Make yourself comfortable. Adjust that microphone if you need to. And speak up so everybody can hear you.

[02:26:08] Speaker 06:

And at that time, as I was walking, I was calling 911 to inform him that there was an accident.

[02:26:12] Speaker 17:

Were you by yourself?

[02:26:15] Speaker 06:

No, sir, I was. I was not coworker Cody, but he sent you.

[02:26:20] Speaker 17:

OK, and did you get to with the scene of the accident?

[02:26:23] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir.

[02:26:24] Speaker 17:

And tell us what you saw.

[02:26:27] Speaker 06:

Well, I just saw, I just remember as I was crossing the street, I had to look to my left to see if there's no end of the vehicles coming. And as soon as I crossed over, I saw a truck that was in the gutter area. water trolleys at and then I didn't see him come out of the vehicle, but I just Heard this I got very close to him. I heard someone yell out He has a gun and I stopped and I'm like what gun I can And I just yelled out to the guy, I said, hey, are you okay? And he just stared at me. And all I saw was just this black post, what to me looked like a black post, like a fence post coming up out of, from the truck where he was on the other side. And he just kept looking at me and then as soon as he went like this, it's when I knew that he had a gun and he started firing and I just turned around and started running back to the funeral home.

[02:27:33] Speaker 17:

Did he fire before you turned to run or after you turned to run?

[02:27:38] Speaker 06:

I think it was after I turned. Okay.

[02:27:40] Speaker 17:

Yes, sir. So you saw the black post, you heard somebody yell, there's a gun, and you turned to run?

[02:27:46] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir.

[02:27:47] Speaker 17:

And you said you had already been on the phone?

[02:27:49] Speaker 06:

I was on the phone with 911 to tell them that, hey, there was an accident at the time. Correct. As I was walking across the street is when I was with 911 to let them know that there was an accident there. And then, of course, as soon as I ran back to the Hillcrest, I immediately called 911 to let them know that he started shooting at us. And then I was watching him through the window, the scene unfold, through the window, the side of the building, or the front office, should I say.

[02:28:30] Speaker 16:

Yes, sir.

[02:28:36] Speaker 06:

I continued watching and calling 911 because we were shot at. I didn't expect to be shot at. Well, because I didn't want to have to know the haste. There's a guy out here that has a gun that he's been shooting at us. We didn't not didn't understand why it's like, what was his motive? I didn't know.

[02:28:58] Speaker 16:

Did you have any expectations when you called 911?

[02:29:00] Speaker 06:

No, sir.

[02:29:02] Speaker 16:

Okay. Did you expect the police to show up?

[02:29:04] Speaker 06:

Well, that's the first thing that you one would think, you know, that the police department would show up.

[02:29:11] Speaker 17:

So that's why you called in as opposed to somebody else.

[02:29:14] Speaker 06:

Correct.

[02:29:16] Speaker 17:

But you stay watching this man after you get back into the funeral home, and you're in a position where you can see him?

[02:29:26] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir.

[02:29:27] Speaker 17:

Describe what he looked like, if you could tell.

[02:29:31] Speaker 06:

I just remember him seeing a tall, skinny guy, Hispanic, and he was wearing all black. And as he started shooting at us, when I was looking through the window, he kept pointing the gun towards the funeral home. And then that's when I saw him throw a duffel bag across the fence. And we threw the duffel bag across the fence. He then jumped the fence. He didn't walk. I mean, he didn't run towards the school. He basically walked completely, very nonchalantly, like no rush, no nothing. And as soon as he was walking, as he was walking that direction, I just remembered the parking lot with the teacher's part. He just pulled his hat up and he just shook his hair like he was waving it, put the cap back on. And at that moment I saw a white car that went right through the parking lot. It was, I mean it went so fast, but he was standing right over here where the school teacher's parking lot was at. And he just...

[02:30:42] Speaker 17:

So you saw a white car arrive and this is after you called 911?

[02:30:48] Speaker 06:

And then I just, like I said, I just saw the car driving by and then I just saw him walking towards the end of the school and then I saw some children were at the playground, the pavilion. and I just remember him shooting at the children. And then from that point, he went ...

[02:31:16] Speaker 17:

Hold on one second. I want to make sure I understand the time. So you see him shooting at the children?

[02:31:22] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir. The ones that were at the playground. Yes, sir.

[02:31:32] Speaker 17:

I just want to make sure I understood that. Yes, sir. So you see him shooting at children and how much later did you see the white car?

[02:31:40] Speaker 06:

I think it was just moments later. And then what happened? And then I just remember him going through the classrooms and he started shooting in window by window until he got to the door where he walked in through.

[02:31:56] Speaker 16:

So you can see all of that?

[02:31:58] Speaker 06:

Oh, yes, sir.

[02:31:59] Speaker 16:

Did you see other police officers pull up?

[02:32:01] Speaker 06:

There was nobody there at the time.

[02:32:03] Speaker 16:

Okay. So just that one white car is all you had said?

[02:32:05] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir. And then by the time he entered, I heard the shooting inside the classroom. And at that point, I just was begging 911 to please get officers out there. And then I saw a police officer arrived and I was telling him he entered through that door. That's the door that he entered through. And I just remember him walking towards that and I hung up with 911 and I called my mom and I said, Mom, please get into prayers. I said, someone's shooting at the children here at the school.

[02:32:49] Speaker 17:

And that was based on your observations in the funeral home?

[02:32:53] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir.

[02:32:54] Speaker 17:

that they're shooting the children?

[02:32:56] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir.

[02:32:57] Speaker 17:

And you call 911?

[02:32:58] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir.

[02:32:59] Speaker 17:

And back them?

[02:33:00] Speaker 06:

Yes, I just said, please get officers out here.

[02:33:04] Speaker 17:

So you made two calls?

[02:33:05] Speaker 06:

The first one of the 911 call that I made was because of the accident. And then the second one I made was because he started shooting at us and telling them. And I was with the operator or the 911 operator with him on the line while the shooting was going on.

[02:33:28] Speaker 17:

Yes, sir.

[02:33:30] Speaker 30:

You're free.

[02:33:57] Speaker 34:

Well, can we just leave it on our mark? That's fine. That's fine, too. Thank you. Well, my number's on my mark. Yes, sir.

[02:34:10] Speaker 30:

Your Honor, the only thing we ask is, I think that there's some additional writing on there that we haven't seen yet, so we just have to see what that is before we get to it.

[02:34:36] Speaker 27:

Okay, we're good to go with that demonstrative exhibit. Okay.

[02:34:40] Speaker 17:

Yes, your honor. We'd offer space to do that one.

[02:34:42] Speaker 27:

No objection. It's admitted. Yes, you may. You may move. And maybe Mr. Moans approach them.

[02:34:49] Speaker 17:

Yes, sir. Would you mind getting up and help us with this a little bit? And we've got jars all the way across. So I'm going to ask you to stand here. and kind of keep an eye on this is yours. So you know, give him their way and I'm going to get on this side and try to do the same. Okay. Would you start by showing us where your funeral home is? That's the funeral home. And would you also show us where the wreck happened? The wreck happened right here. Where the red axis. And does this red line is that an accurate depiction of the way you saw the gunman walk? Yes, I Would you trace that so the jury is kind of fine? Okay, so first you see him walk to the south end. And then walk back all the way up to the north end. And so you got out of the funeral home. Where were you? And where did you go?

[02:35:54] Speaker 06:

I was right here in the hallway. And I was walking when I was told that there was an accident. So we walked out and we started walking this way. And when we saw the dust here, we began to run. I stopped here to look this direction to see if there were any vehicles were coming. And then I crossed over and I walked right about to, right about this area right here. And I saw the gun and then I just, that's when I called out to him. I said, sir, are you okay? He didn't say anything at all. He just kept looking at me. And that's, of course, that's when I heard someone yelled, I didn't know if it was, I just heard someone yell out, he has a gun. And I stopped and I'm like, what gun? And that's when I saw him pull the gun out. That looked like a black post. And now afterwards I realized it was a weapon.

[02:37:07] Speaker 17:

And I'm correct that you called 911, is that correct?

[02:37:11] Speaker 07:

I'm sorry?

[02:37:11] Speaker 17:

You called 911.

[02:37:13] Speaker 07:

Yes, sir.

[02:37:13] Speaker 17:

And you're aware that they record your phone calls?

[02:37:16] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir.

[02:37:17] Speaker 17:

When you called 911, were you in an excited state?

[02:37:21] Speaker 06:

I was really overwhelmed.

[02:37:23] Speaker 12:

Judge, I'm sorry, sir. We'll stick with the 911 call, judge.

[02:37:28] Speaker 17:

You're good. Have you listened to the 911 calls that you made before appearing before the jury?

[02:37:35] Speaker 06:

No, sir.

[02:37:36] Speaker 17:

Okay. But I believe they're situated as their fair and accurate representations. As you listen to these phone calls, I'm going to ask you if that is your voice and if that's a fair and accurate representation of the calls.

[02:37:51] Speaker 18:

They would play.

[02:38:09] Speaker 17:

We've marked an offer space to get the 21 year old no objection. Submitted. And maybe it displayed to the jury. Yes.

[02:38:27] Speaker 24:

He might be counting on one. I'm here. I think it's. I'm gonna kill you, God! I'm gonna kill you, God! I'm gonna kill you, God! I'm gonna kill you, God! I'm gonna kill you, God! He's up against a school yard! He's up against a school yard, man! Are you doing school yard? Yeah, he's just up on the fence! He's armed towards the school! Oh my God! He's wearing black! He's up against a police car! Okay, we do have multiple officers heading out that way. He said he's wearing black. No, yes, he's walking. He's walking across. Cause Rob here right in the funeral home. Call me Rob. It's a funeral home. Oh my gosh. Okay, there's officers that are heading out that way. What do you mean? There's kids out there. There's kids out there, please. They're all hitchhiking and a truck is going by. How are we? Yes sir, we have those women that's heading our building. Oh my god, these kids. Oh my goodness. Oh my god. Oh my god. Father, please in the name of Jesus. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Oh, my God, this is gonna be huge! Oh, my God, this is gonna be huge! Oh, my God, this is gonna be huge! Oh, my God, this is gonna be huge! Thank you. All right.

[02:41:37] Speaker 17:

And I believe you had a stipulation prep on call starting at 11, 29, 14. Corrected. All right. And Mr. Lamontas, I believe you described in your testimony that you were called upon to make a second call to 9-1-1. Is that correct? Yes, sir. What caused you to make a second call?

[02:41:56] Speaker 06:

Well, the actual shooting that was happening, there were the kids. That was when the guy had walked into the school. Oh, can you be given, I'm sorry, to start cheating at the children?

[02:42:11] Speaker 17:

And you could hear those shots from where you were?

[02:42:13] Speaker 05:

Yes, sir.

[02:42:16] Speaker 17:

So there was a second sense of urgency. And did you make that call then? I believe you had a stipulation 1133-18. Some four minutes later. you never say and we'd ask to offer states exhibit 22 the second I want to be still exhibit number 2121 a and b them on your honor with a B in the first phone call and baby in a second.

[02:42:49] Speaker 27:

No objection. They're both in the

[02:43:01] Speaker 24:

You got to kill him now. We have multiple units inside of this building. They have no keys.

[02:44:25] UNKNOWN:

What would you have to do to find me? No question, I've got doors. I can't find it. I can't find it. I can't find it. I can't find it. I can't find it. I can't find it. I can't find it.

[02:44:50] Speaker 22:

I can't find it. I can't find it.

[02:45:01] Speaker 24:

It's always hard for children. It's never easy to have fun at home.

[02:45:08] UNKNOWN:

It's always hard for children. It's never easy to have fun at home. It's never easy to have fun at home.

[02:45:20] Speaker 24:

It's never easy to have fun at home. It's never easy to have fun at home. It's never easy to have fun at home.

[02:45:29] UNKNOWN:

It's never easy to have fun at home.

[02:45:31] Speaker 24:

Oh my god.

[02:45:59] Speaker 17:

Yes, sir. And Mr. Lamont is other than talking to the 911 dispatch. Does that phone call indicate you were talking to other people? Who else were you talking to?

[02:46:13] Speaker 06:

I was talking to some, I think it was the first officer that was responded to. There was a valid police officer, police officers that was on the first one.

[02:46:23] Speaker 18:

Okay. And now let's

[02:46:33] Speaker 17:

You can just sit right there for a minute. I just need to show one time. Just show the jury where the police officers were.

[02:46:40] Speaker 06:

The first police officer that responded that he parked right about right here. That was the one that I was telling him that he walked in through this door. Okay. It was a Yuvali PD.

[02:46:50] Speaker 17:

Did you ever see any officers at this intersection?

[02:46:53] Speaker 06:

No, sir.

[02:46:54] Speaker 17:

You did not talk to them?

[02:46:55] Speaker 06:

No, sir.

[02:46:56] Speaker 17:

Thank you. Thank you. And the white car that you saw? Would you show the direction you saw it and where it went?

[02:47:03] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir. There's an entrance right here. Yes. And the car just came through this direction.

[02:47:08] Speaker 13:

So the car drove in the same direction, at least ended up in the same place where the shooter was?

[02:47:13] Speaker 06:

Up in this area. But the shooter was already inside the building when this... I'm sorry. I take that back. When the vehicle... The gunman was right here, if I recall correctly, when I saw a vehicle pulled by here. But they would not be able to see, if whatever came through here, they wouldn't be able to see them because he was between two vehicles.

[02:47:41] Speaker 13:

So the parking lot was full of vehicles?

[02:47:43] Speaker 06:

Yeah, this car that came through here, I don't know who it was, but the car that came through here went fast. It went fast? It was real fast.

[02:47:50] Speaker 13:

And the gunman was between two vehicles at the time?

[02:47:52] Speaker 06:

At that time, yes, sir.

[02:47:53] Speaker 13:

Okay. Was the parking lot full of vehicles?

[02:47:57] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir. This whole parking lot was full of a lot of vehicles.

[02:48:01] Speaker 13:

Because it was a school day?

[02:48:02] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir.

[02:48:24] Speaker 17:

Mr. Limonis, let me also ask you, the funeral home, does it have video cameras on the funeral home?

[02:48:31] Speaker 07:

Yes, sir.

[02:48:32] Speaker 17:

And do those video cameras accurately depict the scenes of both on the side of the funeral home as well as on the front of the funeral home? Yes, sir. No objection. So we'll just kind of describe them for a second. Have you had a chance to look at those videos?

[02:48:52] Speaker 06:

Some of them.

[02:48:54] Speaker 17:

And do they accurately depict what you saw that day?

[02:48:58] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir.

[02:49:16] Speaker 17:

We'd offer at this time mark and offer states into 22, which is all three funeral home.

[02:49:23] Speaker 12:

No, I'll give no objection.

[02:49:26] Speaker 17:

There's a publisher. And if you'll just kind of swing around, we're gonna play those funeral homes on that video behind you. You see the numbers in the top hand corner that are rolling continuously?

[02:50:04] Speaker 07:

Yes, sir.

[02:50:05] Speaker 17:

Does that appear to be the correct and accurate time as to when you saw these events unfold?

[02:50:11] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir.

[02:50:12] Speaker 17:

Okay. And tell us what angle we're looking at at this point.

[02:50:15] Speaker 06:

You're looking at the side parking lot of the vehicle as it's facing Robskill. It's on the entrance where the accident really happened.

[02:50:24] Speaker 17:

And where is the ditch where you saw the vehicle wreck? May I approach the ticket? Yes.

[02:50:31] Speaker 06:

It's right here. This is the site, the front of the office. It's on this side. You can go across.

[02:50:42] Speaker 17:

Okay. And so what we're about to see then is that vehicle wreck? Is that correct? Yes, sir. And does it also depict you coming out to check on it? Yes, sir. Okay. So Mr. males, I think what we're about to do is about to get to that point. I just wanted to point that out to you with just about two seconds from what for the original. Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you. So was that the rack?

[02:52:26] Speaker 00:

That was the rack.

[02:52:26] Speaker 17:

Yes sir, that was the rack. And the next thing we'll see then is you and your cohort going over to check on them.

[02:52:32] Speaker 00:

Correct.

[02:53:06] Speaker 17:

Okay, we have 112905 on the counter. Do you see yourself on that video? Yes, sir. Would you point that out for the jury?

[02:53:18] Speaker 06:

That would be the first question on the right hand side.

[02:53:21] Speaker 17:

You'd be the person on the right hand side. Yes, sir. So did that fairly inaccurate depict when you turned and ran and came back in as the shots were fired? Yes, sir. How about how many shots were fired?

[02:54:12] Speaker 06:

To us? I couldn't tell you, but to be honest with you, there's quite a bit. I just remember bullets gracing us.

[02:54:21] Speaker 17:

So it was more than one?

[02:54:22] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir. Absolutely.

[02:55:03] Speaker 17:

Could you just tell us what is Gunman doing at this point?

[02:55:07] Speaker 06:

At that point I'm already inside the building and I'm at the far right hand office right here at the corner and I'm watching him and I'm calling 911 and telling them that I saw him where he was he jumped up he threw first a duffel bag across and as soon when he threw the duffel bag then he jumped the fence himself and then he started walking towards the school. Thank you. Thank you.

[02:55:29] Speaker 17:

We'll watch now until we get to 11 31 36 and ask you what we see there. And so, around 11 31 36, is that when we saw the white car? Yes sir. And is that the white car that you saw drive to the south? Yes sir. And the next camera angle will show better where that car was, is that correct? Yes sir, that's correct. Okay, do we see other police cars arriving at this time?

[02:57:32] Speaker 06:

I see them arriving over here at this time.

[02:57:36] Speaker 17:

At that intersection? Yes, sir. What is the time on the counter?

[02:57:42] Speaker 06:

11, 32, 25.

[02:57:46] Speaker 17:

Thank you. get this stuff here. And we have it at about 1133 35. And I'll ask you to describe what you see happen as we as we start it back up.

[02:59:10] Speaker 06:

And honestly, I didn't know that the police officers were in that corner. I guess that's when I was with 911 calling, looking at towards the school.

[02:59:18] Speaker 16:

You were looking at the other direction?

[02:59:20] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir. Because the vehicle, because I was like trying to figure out, okay, well, all I remember was a UPD officer showing up, but I didn't know they were stopping there.

[02:59:33] Speaker 17:

You didn't actually see it, but do you have any reason to believe this wasn't accurately depicted in the advances they've covered? Okay, stop it here. Mr. Moses, you see another white car there at that point? Yes, sir. And is that the second car that you saw had the same direction that never said no other vehicles other than just a white one.

[03:01:20] Speaker 06:

This is the first time I've ever seen this.

[03:01:22] Speaker 17:

Okay, we'll look into the next section. Okay, okay. But would you know the time is 1134 57? Is that correct?

[03:01:48] Speaker 16:

I think now we're going to move to a front angle, which may be a lot more closely aligned with what you actually saw. Yes, sir.

[03:01:55] Speaker 17:

And this may help you describe for us those two properties cars that came up.

[03:01:59] Speaker 07:

Yes, sir.

[03:01:59] Speaker 17:

Fair enough. So as we start, could you tell us what we're looking at?

[03:02:04] Speaker 06:

You're looking at the front end of the funeral home.

[03:02:08] Speaker 17:

And where is the Robb School?

[03:02:10] Speaker 06:

Directly across the street in front of the funeral home.

[03:02:14] Speaker 17:

And on the screen, is it on the left side of the screen or the right side of the screen?

[03:02:19] Speaker 06:

What is the, the rapsicle? It's on the left side of the screen.

[03:02:21] Speaker 17:

And where does the record curve?

[03:02:23] Speaker 06:

On the right hand side of the screen.

[03:02:26] Speaker 22:

Thank you.

[03:03:38] UNKNOWN:

you

[03:04:23] Speaker 17:

Okay, stop it. Can you see the man who had the racket and pulled the gun on you at this point? Yes, sir. And would you point that at him? You don't have to stand out, but point that out for the jury. Yes, sir. And what's he doing as we've stopped the camera right there at 1130.6?

[03:04:41] Speaker 06:

He was jumping the fence at that point.

[03:04:43] Speaker 17:

He's jumping the fence? Yes, sir. And now we're going to see him walk toward the Robb School? Yes, sir. Okay. If you might, you might just point it out one more time as he starts walking, just so make sure we see if you have a small.

[03:05:05] Speaker 18:

Yes, if you want to. Because I need for a little bit of a place there. And he starts walking this way. Okay, And now the procedure, sister Debra.

[03:05:51] Speaker 17:

Would you tell us to stop the video when he gets to the parking lot?

[03:05:55] Speaker 07:

Yes, sir.

[03:06:01] Speaker 06:

Right there is where he's starting to step foot into the parking lot.

[03:06:03] Speaker 17:

11, 31, about 21 or 22.

[03:06:13] Speaker 06:

As you can tell, he's walking in between the two vehicles at that point.

[03:06:18] Speaker 17:

He's walking between the vehicles at 11. 31 around 21 or 22. Is that correct?

[03:06:24] Speaker 07:

Yes, sir.

[03:06:25] Speaker 17:

And now we're going to move ahead about 15 seconds. I want to ask you what you see there. Yes, sir. I may So that's 11-31-42. Can you tell us what we saw there?

[03:07:00] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir. That's a white vehicle that I saw approaching into the school yard.

[03:07:06] Speaker 17:

So about 20 seconds after the gunman reaches the parking lot, then you see a white car and it's headed toward that same direction, is that correct?

[03:07:14] Speaker 07:

Yes, sir.

[03:07:24] Speaker 17:

And you can stop it there. So around 11 31 50, he's out of sight, but he's close to that south side of that last.

[03:07:33] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir. What I remember seeing is that the gentleman was between the two vehicles towards the front end of the vehicles. And that's when I saw the white vehicle that was going really fast that went right by him.

[03:07:50] Speaker 17:

So the gunman was still at the southwest side of the building.

[03:07:53] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir.

[03:07:57] Speaker 17:

Okay, let's move forward down to 1133.25. Okay, you stop it around 1133 33. Did you see a police car been leaving and driving that direction?

[03:09:56] Speaker 05:

That's right.

[03:09:57] Speaker 17:

Okay. I want to ask you because it's quiet y'all even pick up sound. Is that correct?

[03:10:02] Speaker 05:

Correct.

[03:10:02] Speaker 17:

But during this whole period of time from when you saw the first police car 1131 42 until the police car left at 1133 25. What was going on at the school?

[03:10:22] Speaker 06:

At that time, that's when the shooting was happening outside. That's when we began to shoot the children at the pavilion first. That's what I was watching.

[03:10:33] Speaker 17:

So you were watching the gun and shooting children at the pavilion? Yes, sir. And then did you see what the shooter did after that?

[03:10:41] Speaker 06:

After he was shooting the children, I just saw the children, you know, kind of all ran away. away from the school and then I saw him walking towards the south end of the building and then started at every window and just randomly would just get the gun and shoot inside the windows.

[03:10:59] Speaker 17:

And when he was shooting that was after the white car had already gotten to the south end of the building?

[03:11:03] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir.

[03:11:04] Speaker 17:

And did you hear one or more than one shot?

[03:11:08] Speaker 06:

He was shooting at every window as he was walking down. So there was a lot more, I don't know how many windows there was there. But he was shooting out of her window up until he got to the entry door.

[03:11:19] Speaker 17:

And did that give you concern?

[03:11:21] Speaker 06:

Absolutely.

[03:11:23] Speaker 17:

And what were you concerned for?

[03:11:25] Speaker 06:

Well, just for the children, the safety of the children and, you know, the police officers. You couldn't see the children? I'm sorry?

[03:11:31] Speaker 17:

You couldn't see the children?

[03:11:33] Speaker 06:

No, sir.

[03:11:34] Speaker 17:

Well, then why would you be concerned for the children?

[03:11:36] Speaker 06:

Well, because I didn't know whether they were in classrooms or not in classrooms. Sure. That's normal. Yes, sir. Oh, they're innocent children, it sounds like.

[03:11:45] Speaker 17:

Right, innocent children. And that's why we hear that energy in your voice when we call 911. Correct, yes sir. You're concerned for the kids. Yes sir. And now we'll move to 1134-59. That's a full minute and a half later. And this is the second, would you stop it, 1134-59, is that second white vehicle coming into view now?

[03:13:37] Speaker 18:

Yes, sir.

[03:13:37] Speaker 17:

Okay. And it goes back to the same place that the first vehicle went, the first white vehicle?

[03:13:43] Speaker 06:

I can't tell you, sir, because I don't remember ever seeing another vehicle other than just the first white one.

[03:13:48] Speaker 17:

Okay, very good. We'll run it ahead. Will you describe what you see this second white vehicle do? Yes, sir. Will you describe it as you watch it? And would you stop it there at 11-35-07?

[03:14:10] Speaker 06:

And he passed through parking lot 8, right where the shooter was originally from the beginning.

[03:14:16] Speaker 17:

Did he take the same path that that first vehicle took?

[03:14:20] Speaker 06:

From the left side, yes, sir.

[03:14:21] Speaker 17:

And that was at 11-35-08, some three and a half minutes later. Is that correct?

[03:14:27] Speaker 07:

Yes, sir.

[03:14:43] Speaker 27:

it's a little afternoon. What I'd like to ask the folks in the courtroom to do is we're going to excuse the jury and they're going to go with the bailiff to catch the elevators to have lunch. So we can get them back by 115 115. So if you'll stay in the courtroom until the bailiff opens the door over there, we'll get them out first. Please remember my instructions. Ladies and gentlemen, please rise for the jury. You can be seated when recess. Thank you.

[04:04:28] UNKNOWN:

you

[04:05:38] Speaker 19:

you

[04:36:21] Speaker 09:

All rise for the jury.

[04:36:53] Speaker 27:

Okay, y'all come in and have a seat when you reach your designated seat. We'll get started. Please be seated in the courtroom. When we recessed members of the jury, we have passed this witness for cross-examination. So I'll ask the defense to proceed at this time.

[04:37:27] Speaker 12:

Thank you, Judge. Hello, Mr. Ramones. Hello, sir. My name is Nico LaHood. I'm one of the three defense lawyers that's representing Adrian Montavez. Yes, sir. Nice to meet you. It's a pleasure. Have you ever spoken before that one? No, sir. OK. Have you ever testified before?

[04:37:41] Speaker 05:

No, sir.

[04:37:42] Speaker 12:

OK. This is cross-examination, so I'm going to ask you some questions. And if there's any time that you don't understand my question or you need me to repeat it, or I'm talking too fast or whatever, just say Nico, and you can call me Nico, by the way. Repeat your question, I don't understand, okay? Yes, sir. You said a lot, and I know it was emotional, and we can feel it, and it's very genuine and sincere, and I can tell. I'm gonna ask you questions, and if you need me to stop at any time, just tell me, I'll pause, okay?

[04:38:11] Speaker 07:

Yes, sir.

[04:38:13] Speaker 12:

So, we heard the 9-1 tapes. I think they speak for themselves. Is it fair to say that you are obviously in a very heightened state of stress?

[04:38:21] Speaker 06:

Absolutely.

[04:38:23] Speaker 12:

And we can hear that. And I want to talk to you about some of that stress and how it may or may not have affected some of your observations or what you knew was going on or not at the time, okay? But before we get there, you kind of, the government took you through step by step that you thought this was an accident, right?

[04:38:39] Speaker 05:

Yes, sir.

[04:38:39] Speaker 12:

Initially. And being, I can tell the Christian man that you are, and I know you're a pastor, you went out there to see if you could help the person in the culvert. Correct. Yes, sir. And then when you got there, we can actually tell that you're on 911 thinking you're reporting an accident.

[04:38:54] Speaker 00:

Correct.

[04:38:55] Speaker 12:

But at some point, you realize it's not an accident because we can hear it on the 911 tape, audio, and you testified to this jury that very quickly you knew that your life was in danger.

[04:39:09] Speaker 00:

Correct.

[04:39:10] Speaker 12:

But not just your life was in danger. At some point, you felt that whoever was at the school's life was in danger.

[04:39:18] Speaker 00:

Correct.

[04:39:19] Speaker 12:

And you reported it to the dispatcher.

[04:39:22] Speaker 05:

Correct.

[04:39:22] Speaker 12:

And you were very clear about it.

[04:39:24] Speaker 05:

Yes, sir. Is that a statement?

[04:39:26] Speaker 12:

Yes, sir. Is it also fair to say that you don't know how the dispatcher was reporting it to officers?

[04:39:30] Speaker 05:

That's correct.

[04:39:30] Speaker 12:

Okay. Um, and that's between that. We'll talk about that with somebody else, but you were very clear and, and you could hear the stress that you felt that this person with a gun was going towards the school, right?

[04:39:45] Speaker 05:

Yes, sir.

[04:39:47] Speaker 12:

I always want to say this and I have zero doubt that you were trying to be disingenuous, but you said on night you told this jury that he was nonchalantly walking. Do you remember that?

[04:39:58] Speaker 00:

Correct.

[04:39:59] Speaker 12:

And you're actually correct, because you saw the video. He was kind of just walking at a regular pace.

[04:40:04] Speaker 06:

It was great signature.

[04:40:05] Speaker 12:

But do you remember on the 911 tape when you said that you thought he was running towards the school?

[04:40:11] Speaker 06:

To be honest with you, I don't recall.

[04:40:13] Speaker 12:

I mean, the government can maybe help me replay that if we need to, but can you help me do that?

[04:40:21] Speaker 15:

We agreed that he said that.

[04:40:22] Speaker 12:

OK, thank you. Thank you, Bill. So the government has agreed with me that on the 911 tape, the jury heard that you told the dispatcher that he's running to the school, he's running to the school. And you weren't being dishonest, you were wrong at the time, right? And again, nobody's trying to make you feel bad for that, you were under tremendous stress.

[04:40:46] Speaker 07:

Yes, sir.

[04:40:47] Speaker 12:

And stress can make people, including yourself, maybe not people, you, stress made you perceive the situation differently than what we saw on video that it actually was. Yes, sir. Okay. You also said in the 9-1 video that you felt, you were perceiving that he was shooting at the kids near the pavilion.

[04:41:06] Speaker 00:

Correct.

[04:41:08] Speaker 12:

Would it surprise you to know that there is no evidence that he shot at the kids in the pavilion?

[04:41:13] Speaker 06:

Yes, that would surprise me.

[04:41:14] Speaker 12:

Okay, fair enough. But you also seem to be a little bit surprised that there were other officers at the scene.

[04:41:22] Speaker 06:

At the corner. At the corner, correct.

[04:41:24] Speaker 12:

I think you told this jury and you testified that this was the first time that you had actually seen that there were three other officers at the corner?

[04:41:32] Speaker 00:

Correct.

[04:41:33] Speaker 12:

So are you saying that at no time before you testified to this jury, that you knew that, you will know their names, but these three officers, Mendoza, Sacedo, and Coronado, showed up at the corner that we saw them on video. You didn't know that until now?

[04:41:47] Speaker 06:

No, sir. That's correct. I didn't know.

[04:41:49] Speaker 12:

Have you met with the government before you testified today?

[04:41:52] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir.

[04:41:53] Speaker 12:

Who did you meet with?

[04:41:54] Speaker 06:

With Mr. Garza and Mr. Gardner.

[04:41:58] Speaker 12:

Okay. And that's appropriate, by the way, for you to do that. But you discussed your testimony, correct?

[04:42:04] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir.

[04:42:05] Speaker 12:

And did you get a chance to review these videos and listen to the 911 tape?

[04:42:09] Speaker 06:

No, sir. Not entirely, no.

[04:42:13] Speaker 12:

So you saw that there were three other officers that arrived at the corner where the accident was.

[04:42:22] Speaker 06:

Today in the video, yes, sir.

[04:42:26] Speaker 12:

And before I talk to you about what they did and didn't do, You said some things. You said that you saw the individual with the gun walking towards the school and then we see, we lose track of him in the parking lot. Correct?

[04:42:42] Speaker 06:

Are you talking about where the palm tree is in the middle?

[04:42:45] Speaker 12:

I'm talking about where the teachers park.

[04:42:47] Speaker 06:

Yes. Okay. Yes, sir.

[04:42:48] Speaker 12:

Okay. And so he's walking towards the school and at some point we can't see him anymore on video.

[04:42:53] Speaker 00:

That's correct.

[04:42:55] Speaker 12:

And you even said at some point he goes into a parking lot that had a lot of cars in it.

[04:42:59] Speaker 00:

Yes.

[04:42:59] Speaker 12:

Correct? Okay. You have to say yes because she's taking the court report.

[04:43:04] Speaker 06:

Sorry. Yes. Okay.

[04:43:04] Speaker 12:

Don't worry about it. If you're nervous and we'll go slow. Um, so, so you also testified that you saw him hiding or between two vehicles.

[04:43:14] Speaker 06:

Correct. Not, I wouldn't say hiding. I would say he was walking between two vehicles.

[04:43:19] Speaker 12:

But you also testified that there was, I'm going to use your words. I want to make sure I get it right. No way. that whoever, and I'm gonna talk about this vehicle, whoever's in this white vehicle could have seen him driving, when he was driving by.

[04:43:29] Speaker 06:

Correct. Okay. From my perspective, because of what I saw and the speed of the vehicle that was going.

[04:43:36] Speaker 12:

So whoever was in that vehicle driving by, that person, in your opinion, could not have seen the shooter?

[04:43:42] Speaker 06:

To me, no.

[04:43:44] Speaker 12:

Okay. And you also said that whoever was driving that white vehicle was driving, your words were real fast, towards the back of the school.

[04:43:51] Speaker 00:

Correct.

[04:43:55] Speaker 12:

Do you know that the government and us, we agree that that was Adrian Gonzalez in that vehicle?

[04:44:00] Speaker 06:

Okay, I didn't know who it was.

[04:44:01] Speaker 12:

Did you know before you testified today?

[04:44:03] Speaker 06:

No, sir.

[04:44:04] Speaker 12:

Okay. Well, that was Adrian Gonzalez in that vehicle. Okay. So Adrian Gonzalez was driving really fast towards the school. Would you agree?

[04:44:14] Speaker 07:

Yes, sir.

[04:44:15] Speaker 12:

Now I want to direct your attention to those three officers that you just realized showed up to the scene. Okay? Yes, sir. Now you got a chance to see the video. You saw that those three officers stopped on that corner?

[04:44:26] Speaker 07:

Yes, sir.

[04:44:28] Speaker 12:

You also know that you were on the phone telling 911 the severity of the circumstance, correct?

[04:44:34] Speaker 00:

Correct.

[04:44:35] Speaker 12:

And you were sharing that information on 911 before those three officers showed up to that corner?

[04:44:40] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[04:44:41] Speaker 12:

And you have no personal knowledge why those officers stopped there?

[04:44:46] Speaker 06:

Again, I didn't see them. I guess my attention was facing the school so I can report it to 911.

[04:44:55] Speaker 12:

Did you ever see those officers get out of their vehicle?

[04:44:58] Speaker 05:

No, sir.

[04:45:00] Speaker 12:

I'm not going to ask you how long they stayed there because you didn't see them until today, right? Correct. Okay. But you saw on the video that at some point in time, those three officers did not follow Adrian on the campus. They drove away.

[04:45:14] Speaker 00:

Correct.

[04:45:15] Speaker 12:

And you saw on the video that they showed up not long after Adrian drove really fast towards the school.

[04:45:20] Speaker 00:

Correct.

[04:45:36] Speaker 12:

I thought I heard you say on direct examination that you were telling somebody, I thought you said you were telling an officer that the shooter had entered the school. Did I hear that wrong?

[04:45:48] Speaker 06:

I heard that correctly.

[04:45:49] Speaker 12:

What officer did you tell that to?

[04:45:51] Speaker 06:

I don't know, the name of the officer. It was the officer that parked close to the entrance of the door where the shooter had entered through.

[04:46:00] Speaker 12:

So I want to be clear. May I approach, Judge? Yes. I'm going to use state's exhibit. Can you see this, sir? Yes, sir. Are you saying there was an officer that parked, because this is the west side of the building where the shooter entered, right?

[04:46:33] Speaker 07:

Yes, sir.

[04:46:35] Speaker 12:

Is this the funeral home? Yes, sir. Do you have any idea how far that is?

[04:46:40] Speaker 06:

No, sir.

[04:46:41] Speaker 12:

Okay, that's fine.

[04:46:43] Speaker 06:

It's a decent distance. Yes, sir. But I wasn't close to the door of the funeral home. I was closer towards the parking lot. I don't know if you saw in the video where I walked outside. So, when I was doing a lot of explaining, telling the officers where I was at, it was, I was towards the middle of the parking lot.

[04:47:04] Speaker 12:

Your parking lot?

[04:47:05] Speaker 06:

The parking lot of the funeral home.

[04:47:08] Speaker 12:

So, right here?

[04:47:09] Speaker 06:

Right about there, yes, sir.

[04:47:10] Speaker 12:

So, this is, for the jury, this is Geraldine Street, correct? Correct. And this Geraldine Street, it goes, if this is north, east, west, south, kind of towards the north, west of the school, all the way north. Correct. Okay. And so you, is it fair to say, or you tell me, where were you standing? Were you standing maybe here?

[04:47:28] Speaker 06:

Not there. A little bit further more towards up there. Yeah, right about there. A little bit up.

[04:47:33] Speaker 12:

And so you're saying that there was an officer that stopped here?

[04:47:37] Speaker 06:

Not there. No, sir. Where did the officer stop? The officer.

[04:47:40] Speaker 12:

May he approach, Judge? Yes.

[04:47:46] Speaker 06:

The first police officer that I saw that was involved in the police department, he parked right here and that's where I was at because I was telling him that he was, the shooter had gone to this building.

[04:47:58] Speaker 12:

So you're saying that the officer was here, you're standing here, correct? Correct.

[04:48:02] Speaker 06:

I was actually right in this area when the officer parked right there and I was yelling at him, telling him that the shooter had gone to that building. Is that when you were still on 911? I think so.

[04:48:14] Speaker 12:

Okay, so. Do you have any idea of the time frame of when that was?

[04:48:19] Speaker 06:

So unfortunately, I was not aware of any time.

[04:48:22] Speaker 12:

Now, is it fair to say that that officer, whoever that officer was, and do you have any idea, could it have been these officers here?

[04:48:29] Speaker 06:

It could have been.

[04:48:29] Speaker 12:

Now, do you have any idea, or let me say you agree, that this officer, whoever it was, did not run to the school? Correct. So this officer, you told him very clearly that you saw, not the general location, That you saw exactly where the shooter entered, correct?

[04:48:48] Speaker 06:

Correct. And I think if you hear the 911 call, you hear me telling them he, the officer, he went through that door.

[04:48:55] Speaker 12:

Well, I did hear that. I think we all did. And that's why I'm asking this question. But we just don't know which officer you're talking to, right?

[04:49:01] Speaker 06:

Yeah, I don't.

[04:49:03] Speaker 12:

Okay. So, but you told an officer, because we can hear you in real time on 911s, he went through this specific door.

[04:49:09] Speaker 06:

Yes, sir.

[04:49:10] Speaker 12:

You didn't say he's in this general location.

[04:49:12] Speaker 06:

No.

[04:49:13] Speaker 12:

You said certainly went through that and we heard what you said. Yes, sir. And that officer did not make their way directly to that door.

[04:49:19] Speaker 06:

Correct.

[04:49:19] Speaker 12:

So is it fair to say that officer did not breach this door? Breach meaning go through the door?

[04:49:24] Speaker 06:

No.

[04:49:31] Speaker 12:

Did you get a chance to see where that officer went?

[04:49:33] Speaker 05:

No, sir.

[04:49:38] Speaker 12:

But by this time, and this is fairly quickly, this time there's a number of officers there.

[04:49:43] Speaker 05:

That is correct.

[04:49:44] Speaker 12:

And now that you know, once Adrian Gonzalez drives into the campus, you never make eyes on him, correct?

[04:49:52] Speaker 06:

No, sir.

[04:49:52] Speaker 12:

You never see what he's doing around you?

[04:49:54] Speaker 06:

No, sir.

[04:49:56] Speaker 12:

You never saw him come around to the west side of the door?

[04:49:58] Speaker 06:

No, sir.

[04:49:59] Speaker 12:

The west side of the school?

[04:50:00] Speaker 06:

No, sir.

[04:50:00] Speaker 12:

You never saw a female come to the west side of the school?

[04:50:03] Speaker 06:

No, sir.

[04:50:07] Speaker 12:

But what you do know for sure, is that you told an officer exactly what door the shooter went in and that officer did not follow the men.

[04:50:14] Speaker 00:

Correct.

[04:50:14] Speaker 12:

And it wasn't the same officer, Adrian Gonzalez, that drove behind the school towards the danger.

[04:50:18] Speaker 00:

Correct.

[04:50:46] Speaker 12:

Thank you, Mr. Liemann. Ask the witness, Judge.

[04:50:48] Speaker 27:

Any other questions? Subject to recall, either side.

[04:50:56] Speaker 12:

He's finally released, Judge.

[04:50:59] Speaker 27:

Okay, sir, you are released from the subpoena. The rule has been invoked, so I'd ask you not to talk to anybody about the case until you're aware the trial is over with. But you're free to go, not subject to recall. Thank you.

[04:51:09] Speaker 15:

Thank you. Your next witness.

[04:51:56] Speaker 27:

Good afternoon, sir. Would you raise your right hand please? You do saw me sort of the evidence in the testimony given this calls will be the truth. So we go. Yes, we have a seat. Make yourself comfortable. Adjust that microphone if you need to. Thank you, sir.

[04:52:08] Speaker 17:

You may proceed. Thank you. Would you introduce yourself to the jury, please?

[04:52:14] Speaker 29:

My name is Jason Shane. I'm with the Texas Rangers.

[04:52:17] Speaker 17:

And how long have you been in law enforcement?

[04:52:20] Speaker 29:

Since 1998. So about 27 years.

[04:52:23] Speaker 17:

And would you briefly go through what your duties have been in law enforcement?

[04:52:27] Speaker 29:

So in 1998, I graduated the DPS training academy was assigned as to the highway patrol. I was in the highway patrol for about eight years promoted and was a highway patrol sergeant for about seven years. And then in 2013, I promoted into the Texas Rangers in About three years ago I went into cold cases and now I just promoted as a lieutenant, staff lieutenant with the Rangers in our cold case program.

[04:52:55] Speaker 17:

And what is a cold case?

[04:52:58] Speaker 29:

Definition of cold cases is there's not a set definition for it. So I was under a grant through the Department of Justice where we used advanced DNA testing to identify suspects in cases utilizing kinship testing and genealogy. Okay.

[04:53:14] Speaker 17:

Have you also done training in crime scene investigations?

[04:53:17] Speaker 29:

Yes.

[04:53:18] Speaker 17:

And would you explain what your training is?

[04:53:21] Speaker 29:

So initially it's through your basic DPS Texas Ranger crime scene investigation from blood spatter to crime scene investigation photography.

[04:53:31] Speaker 17:

And have you conducted crime scene investigations? Yes. Few or many? Many. Okay. As you work with law enforcement, have you likewise become familiar with guns? Yes. And tell us what your familiarity was and what that is.

[04:53:48] Speaker 29:

Well, uh, initially growing up, we all pretty much shot guns, but, uh, and then with the DPS of, um, I'm a firearms instructor, um, qualify other, um, law enforcement officers and, uh, firearms and then every type of training that we do and then shooter reconstruction also.

[04:54:08] Speaker 17:

What is shooting reconstruction me?

[04:54:10] Speaker 29:

More of how the projectile reacts when it hits different surfaces and trajectory of those projectiles.

[04:54:23] Speaker 17:

Okay. So tell us in general terms how does ammunition or weapons, how does that play into a crime scene?

[04:54:30] Speaker 29:

Well, if there is a firearm involved in a shooting involved with officer involved shooting or a crime where somebody has been shot, you know, you can do ballistics to try to track those type of the shell casings of the primer strikes. Also, you know, the serial numbers on guns, you can track those at times.

[04:54:52] Speaker 17:

So as a result of that, have you also had to learn just the basic mechanics of how a bullet is fired and what happens inside a bullet when it is fired?

[04:55:00] Speaker 29:

Yes.

[04:55:02] Speaker 17:

Let's see. May I approach you on that? Yes, sir. We'd offer exhibit two for the demonstrative purposes, Your Honor. Any objection? No objection, Your Honor.

[04:55:32] Speaker 27:

It's admitted for that purpose.

[04:55:35] Speaker 17:

And may the witness approach the exhibit. Yes, sir. Would you tell us what we're looking at in states exhibit two, please? And make sure people on our side are looking.

[04:55:51] Speaker 29:

So basically this is your bullet with your casing and your projectile. The back of the bullet where the primer firing 10 strikes, which then in accident creates some type of explosion that would impact the black powder that's inside and then it projects and that expansion of gas projects the bullet.

[04:56:30] Speaker 17:

So when we hear a shot go off, what are we hearing? You're hearing the expansion of the gas in there. And that's from the gunpowder igniting? Correct. Okay. And then the primer, would you explain to us what the primer is?

[04:56:43] Speaker 29:

That's just where the, when it's placed inside the weapon, it strikes that which causes, you know, fire that does the gunpowder.

[04:56:59] Speaker 17:

Now, is there anything about what is on a bullet casing that helps you identify manufacturers or those kind of things?

[04:57:07] Speaker 29:

Sure. Back here in this area right here, there is usually the manufacturer, what type of ammunition it is.

[04:57:14] Speaker 17:

And is that sometimes helpful in a crime scene? Sure. To track down who originally manufactured that? Yes. And can you compare it if there's more than one person firing a shot? Sure.

[04:57:23] Speaker 29:

And then you're going to look at the primer strikes and how that it is struck and then they have the casing goes through the barrel or when it's put into the barrel. There's markings on in the weapon that each weapon is pretty much unique. And that's how they would be able to track that.

[04:57:42] Speaker 17:

And as far as manufacturing, then where do they print that back here? Usually, if I look at that, then you can tell if empty cases then sure like this one says nine millimeters, so you would suspect that that would be a nine millimeter

[04:57:56] Speaker 29:

Okay.

[04:57:57] Speaker 17:

Now, when a bullet is fired, could you just demonstrate what happens to the parts of the bullet? Where do they go?

[04:58:05] Speaker 29:

Sure, this this will stay inside the weapon itself until it's ejected from the weapon. Of course, this is the primer is part of that shell casing. And the part that comes out is this part up there.

[04:58:17] Speaker 17:

So the bullet or the projectile bullet or projectiles, which you call it that goes out and that does the damage, correct? And the casing that doesn't matter what kind of weapon is being used as to where the casing goes?

[04:58:29] Speaker 29:

Yes, so a revolver that didn't eject it, it would stay in there. And then semi automatic weapon would eject that.

[04:58:37] Speaker 17:

And what is a semi automatic weapon? One that can shoot multiple rounds. Okay. And so what happens when a semi automatic weapon is fired?

[04:58:45] Speaker 29:

It will, first of all, the bullet is in there. Once it's fired, it's ejected out to the side, usually.

[04:58:53] Speaker 17:

The mechanisms of the rifle itself will eject it out and ejects it out and then loads another one back in. And so is that one of the things you're looking for when you're looking at a crime scene?

[04:59:02] Speaker 29:

Sure, because if there's not any ejected shell casings, then it could be a revolver that's involved. And if there are objective shell casings, I can tell you... More likely that it's a semi-automatic or that person dumped that ammunition out.

[04:59:16] Speaker 17:

And because the casings there, can you also inspect it to see who manufactured it? Correct. Okay. Thank you. Ranger, if you had to... Uh, not in an additional active shooter situation.

[04:59:48] Speaker 29:

No, sir.

[04:59:51] Speaker 17:

No.

[04:59:53] Speaker 29:

No.

[04:59:55] Speaker 17:

Did you work in Sutherland Springs?

[04:59:57] Speaker 29:

No, sir.

[05:00:00] Speaker 17:

Is this so? Is this the first time you've been to an active And how did you arrive at the scene?

[05:00:13] Speaker 29:

By vehicle. I was in Del Rio at the time when we got a call that there was a possible active shooter in Uvalde and responded from Del Rio.

[05:00:22] Speaker 17:

And how far is Del Rio from Uvalde?

[05:00:24] Speaker 29:

A good distance. I was there on a deployment for the border operations, so I'm not familiar with that area. I actually followed some other individuals to that location.

[05:00:35] Speaker 17:

How long does it take you to get from Del Rio to Uvalde?

[05:00:38] Speaker 29:

I think it took us approximately about an hour to get there.

[05:00:43] Speaker 17:

And when you got there, what did you do?

[05:00:46] Speaker 29:

I had just finished a shift doing border operations, so I was actually in shorts and a t-shirt. I threw on my gear. I was parked down the street and when I arrived, the road, the street to get there to the school was blocked by vehicles. And the ambulance pulled up and said, we've got to get these vehicles out of there. So I instructed how a patrol to start ramming vehicles off the road, patrol cars, so they could have an entrance to get there to the school. About that time, then officers, knowing that their vehicles are gonna get rammed off the road, came out and moved their vehicles so the ambulance could arrive.

[05:01:32] Speaker 17:

And eventually, did you go in before the breach occurred? Yes. And did the breach occur while you were in there? Yes. And do you know who was involved in the breach of the classrooms at Robb Elementary?

[05:01:43] Speaker 29:

Multiple officers. The Border Patrol, Border Patrol team was the TL there was the lead over that stack.

[05:01:53] Speaker 17:

And what does Border Patrol mean?

[05:01:55] Speaker 29:

It's Border Operations Tactical Team for the Border Patrol.

[05:01:59] Speaker 17:

Okay, they actually led the breach, is that correct? Yes. Were you given assignments then as far as the crime scene at Robb Elementary?

[05:02:09] Speaker 29:

So being, I guess, the first ranger or one of the rangers that was on the scene, we cleared the crime scene to make sure everybody was out and nothing was contaminated at that point. That was secured. And then I was asked to, at some point, to go photograph the vehicle that the suspect had been involved in with his accident before he made entry into the store. And did you photograph the crime scene?

[05:02:58] Speaker 17:

I had an opportunity to review photographs with me prior to coming here today. Yes, sir. And were those fair and accurate depictions of the crime scene of the truck that you participated in?

[05:03:08] Speaker 29:

Yes.

[05:03:11] Speaker 17:

Stag tenders exits 15 through 84 to the retention as saw from endowments. What are the numbers again? 50? 50 to 84 is what I meant.

[05:07:34] UNKNOWN:

. . .

[05:08:13] Speaker 17:

You don't have to discuss with the defense on operations 50 through 75, which is witness. No objection. All right, they'll be admitted and may we display those to the jury? Yes. Okay, Ranger, looking first. Exhibit 50. Could you explain to us what we're looking at at this point?

[05:09:01] Speaker 29:

Yes, sir. This is the vehicle that had crashed through the guard for that culvert and had crashed right there.

[05:09:08] Speaker 17:

And that was his resting place?

[05:09:09] Speaker 29:

Yes, sir.

[05:09:12] Speaker 17:

and exhibit 51.

[05:09:13] Speaker 29:

It's same thing photograph just from different angle. Okay, and what is in the background there? That's gonna be the funeral home man. Yes, please. Back over in this area right here. And there was another street that came straight here. And then your school was over here to your right.

[05:09:31] Speaker 17:

Thank you.

[05:09:34] Speaker 29:

Exhibit 52. Just a different perspective of that same vehicle with the school in the background.

[05:09:41] UNKNOWN:

Okay.

[05:09:42] Speaker 17:

And this was taken on on the same day of the offense, May 24 2022. Yes, correct. Yes, sir. Exhibit 53 close up photograph of that same vehicle. And the condition of the windows and exhibit 53.

[05:09:59] Speaker 29:

I believe the ones that passenger side had been. Or shattered. the passenger side yes front window was shattered and exhibit 54 just some of the barriers and then some projectiles or shell casings or bullets whatever you want to call it there by the fence and would you point those out because they're kind of small there yes

[05:10:32] Speaker 17:

And had those bullets been fired? No, sir. So they were still live rounds? Correct. And we say a barrier. Is that another name for a fence?

[05:10:41] Speaker 29:

Yeah, so you had your fence over here, but you had the barriers from, I believe, from where he had struck that barrier when he entered in that culvert. Oh, the way the culvert comes down? Yes, sir.

[05:10:51] Speaker 17:

I believe so. Thank you. Ann States Exhibit 55. So just another photograph of that vehicle. Does that give us a better shot of the front right?

[05:11:08] Speaker 29:

The front of the vehicle where you can see where it had to crash through that barrier and then vaulted into that culvert.

[05:11:15] Speaker 17:

Does that also show the front right window, its condition? Yes. And this condition was what?

[05:11:20] Speaker 29:

Broken. You can see the glass right here. So it had been rolled up at the time when it broke.

[05:11:29] Speaker 17:

Very good.

[05:11:32] Speaker 29:

States exhibit 56. The same photograph from the rear of the vehicle. You can tell the direction the vehicle was coming from with its marks from the tire.

[05:11:43] Speaker 17:

And on the right side of the vehicle, could you describe what we see there? Yes, sir. There is a black bag here. And did it have evidentiary value?

[05:11:51] Speaker 29:

Yes, there was a long rifle or a rifle inside of it.

[05:11:54] Speaker 17:

A long rifle or a rifle? States exhibit 57. It's a close up photograph of the rifle in the bag. Was that then the condition it was in when you saw it?

[05:12:06] Speaker 29:

Yes.

[05:12:10] Speaker 17:

exhibit 58.

[05:12:14] Speaker 29:

There you go. So just another photograph of that weapon. And then you also see magazines with live rounds up here in the right. You can also see where that glass was on top of the bag from that window.

[05:12:29] Speaker 17:

Okay. This may be the first time we've heard the word magazine with your testimony. Explain to us what a magazine is.

[05:12:36] Speaker 29:

A magazine is inserted into the weapon from the bottom of this area right here. And it's usually loaded with other live ammunition. And so when the gun is fired, the semi-automatic ejects the shell casing that had been fired and it automatically loads up another bullet from the magazine. Exhibit 59. So once we opened up that bag, we laid out all the magazines that were there and photographed that.

[05:13:16] Speaker 17:

And how many cartridges does one of those magazines hold? 20 to 30 rounds. So 20 or 30 rounds can be fired without The gun being reloaded. Correct. It loads itself. Yes. And then what does it take to reload the weapon?

[05:13:35] Speaker 29:

You have to eject the magazine and insert another magazine. And about how long does that take? Depends on how proficient somebody is. It can take seconds.

[05:13:44] Speaker 17:

Just seconds? A matter of seconds? Yes, sir.

[05:13:46] Speaker 29:

Thank you.

[05:13:48] Speaker 17:

And number 60. Just a photograph of those magazines with live cartridges in there. So does that indicate the magazines were full? Had been loaded, yes, sir. And how many magazines are depicted there? Six. Thank you. Exhibit 61.

[05:14:07] Speaker 29:

Opened the door that passenger side and photographed the inside of the vehicle.

[05:14:14] Speaker 17:

And on the passenger seat, is there a magazine there also?

[05:14:19] Speaker 29:

Yes, sir. That had rounds inside of it.

[05:14:23] Speaker 17:

And it had rounds in it also?

[05:14:25] Speaker 29:

Yes, sir. States is a good 62. Another magazines with lot browns inside of it. That was in the floorboard.

[05:14:36] Speaker 17:

Front floorboard.

[05:14:37] Speaker 29:

Yes, sir. The passenger side. Thank you. 63 looks like the same photograph. So we had emptied out or looked for identification to see who who had insurance on the vehicle or the vehicle with registered someone And so we place those out by that cell phone that's located right here. And that same magazine that with the live rounds just to see who the owner of the vehicle was or potential.

[05:15:11] Speaker 17:

And did you activate that magazine to aid you and assist you as to whose telephone that was?

[05:15:18] Speaker 29:

Can you repeat that question?

[05:15:19] Speaker 17:

Did you activate the phone or did the phone activate?

[05:15:22] Speaker 29:

Yeah, when we picked up the phone, the front screen popped up.

[05:15:25] Speaker 17:

And is that what a photograph of exhibit 64 is?

[05:15:29] Speaker 29:

Yes.

[05:15:32] Speaker 17:

And are you able to read from from that phone from this photograph? Yes, I am.

[05:15:41] Speaker 29:

Could you repeat what you read on the top top line? Instagram post from an individual. Ella Packer 69. Yeah, they killed them and he killed his grandma. He shot her 24 times. He's going to hell. Then there was just another Instagram. Somebody's following you a tick tock. Somebody like to be video. Somebody took a screenshot Apple News and then somebody tried to look up here to try to call this individual.

[05:16:14] Speaker 17:

Thank you. Did you see the gunman that day? Or did you ever see a photograph of him? No. Okay, so you can't tell us whether or not this was the gunman. No, you can just say this was the car in which there was an automatic weapon found just outside.

[05:16:29] Speaker 29:

Yes.

[05:16:30] Speaker 17:

Thank you.

[05:16:35] Speaker 29:

Stasis group at 65. So the back passenger view photograph inside the little blood right here on the seat appeared to might have been some blood on the center console and then another magazine with live ammunition inside of it. The also you can see that the airbags had deployed on the driver's steering column.

[05:16:57] Speaker 17:

And what causes an airbag to deploy?

[05:17:00] Speaker 29:

An impact to the front of the vehicle.

[05:17:02] Speaker 17:

Okay.

[05:17:02] Speaker 29:

Which is consistent with what we saw.

[05:17:04] Speaker 17:

Fair enough.

[05:17:06] Speaker 29:

66. A couple more magazines. So I'd already pointed out one of them. There's three more there.

[05:17:14] Speaker 17:

The tire iron and a couple other items. So we had six outside and these are additional magazines.

[05:17:21] Speaker 29:

So six six outside two in the front that we saw and then there's another four and then I think there's another one in the backseat.

[05:17:29] Speaker 17:

So it's 1213 at this time held in the capacity of 20 or 30 rounds or somewhere in between. Yes, sir. Exhibit 67.

[05:17:38] Speaker 29:

Same photograph. Look like I don't know what that is some some some something with the vehicle but then there's another magazine spent showcasing there and a lot of round there.

[05:17:58] Speaker 17:

And is there both a live round and a fire casing there?

[05:18:01] Speaker 29:

Correct a lot round enough and a fire ground.

[05:18:04] Speaker 17:

And how can you tell the distinction?

[05:18:06] Speaker 29:

You can see that projectile of that bullet right there, and on this one there's not one. So we know that that had been fired, or appeared to be fired.

[05:18:13] Speaker 17:

So that indicates that that bullet had been fired somewhere around or near that vehicle.

[05:18:19] Speaker 29:

Don't know, just that there was a showcasing there that that bullet had been potentially fired.

[05:18:23] Speaker 17:

And would it be consistent with the weapon that you saw outside? the vehicle for a casing to be ejected from that weapon upon it being fired? Yes. In other words, it wasn't a revolver? It wasn't a revolver. It was a semi-automatic rifle. So you would expect the casing to be ejected? Correct. And exhibit 68. So zoomed in photograph next photograph.

[05:18:49] Speaker 29:

I'm sorry, this thing's not always working. Yeah, you can see where it appears to be burnt kind of on the end from the expansion of the gas and the burning the gas. And it appeared that that primer had been struck, which is initiates the firing of indicated again, it had been fired. Yes.

[05:19:10] Speaker 17:

And exhibit 69.

[05:19:11] Speaker 29:

A lot of showcasing you see that the bullet is still there.

[05:19:18] Speaker 17:

The bullet on the end in the cases has not been fired correct. exhibit 70.

[05:19:26] Speaker 29:

Let's see if you can see where there was a jack there.

[05:19:31] Speaker 17:

And then the door door facing of the backseat. Is there any evidentiary value there?

[05:19:37] Speaker 29:

Yes, there's a spent showcasing up there.

[05:19:41] Speaker 17:

And you say spent once again, that means it was fired. And exhibit 71 zoomed in photograph of that

[05:19:54] Speaker 29:

and 72 believe that's going to be the front driver seat, a magazine that had been loaded with cartridges inside of it.

[05:20:07] Speaker 17:

Okay, so this is still an additional casing. I mean, a magazine. Yes, sir. And once again, fully like we're around 14, I believe.

[05:20:19] Speaker 29:

Thank you. And 73. Driver seat. We know that's because of the airbag. airbag right there and then two live bullets there in the driver's seat.

[05:20:33] Speaker 17:

74?

[05:20:33] Speaker 29:

I zoomed in photograph of both of those.

[05:20:37] Speaker 17:

And finally 75 down I guess toward the middle of the screen.

[05:20:42] Speaker 29:

Same magazine that we had noted earlier and then two more showcasing or parcels right there.

[05:20:51] Speaker 17:

Thank you. When we talk about weapons and ammunition, what does the word caliber mean to you?

[05:21:05] Speaker 29:

That ammunition, a caliber, goes with that type of gun. So if you had a .308 caliber rifle, it would shoot .308 ammunition. A 9 millimeter would shoot a 9 millimeter. It's the size of the weapon.

[05:21:18] Speaker 17:

And so what caliber was this ammunition? .223. And is a 223, can it be fired in a 9 millimeter weapon? No. And vice versa? No. And so if you find 223 casings, the indication is it was fired from a 223 weapon. Correct. And by the same token, if you find a 9 millimeter casing, it indicates that it was fired by a nine millimeter weapon.

[05:21:45] Speaker 29:

If it was spin or had been fired, then yes, it would have been shot from a nine millimeter.

[05:21:49] Speaker 17:

And once again, that would be if it was a semi-automatic that ejected the casing as opposed to a revolver.

[05:21:54] Speaker 28:

Correct.

[05:22:00] Speaker 17:

May I approach your honor? Yes, sir. Stacey's unit 12. She'll just take a quick look at that. May I? Yes. You testified that you found two live casings in the truck that you did the search on. Does that appear to be the same?

[05:22:18] Speaker 29:

Two live?

[05:22:19] Speaker 17:

I mean, excuse me, fired casings? Yes.

[05:22:21] Speaker 29:

Yes, sir. These would be fired casings. Thank you.

[05:22:27] Speaker 17:

The state offers. Yes, thank you. And on exhibit 12, the two casings on the end of those casings is there a headstamp indicating what manufacturer? Yes, sir. And could you tell us what it is?

[05:23:20] Speaker 29:

Not without my glasses.

[05:23:22] Speaker 17:

And you didn't bring them?

[05:23:23] Speaker 29:

No, sir.

[05:23:23] Speaker 17:

I did not say that for another witness. Yes.

[05:23:33] Speaker 29:

Hey, if it'll work, it'll work.

[05:23:41] Speaker 04:

Don't break a man.

[05:23:47] Speaker 17:

Alright, we got younger people coming with better eyes.

[05:23:53] Speaker 29:

Thought my site was bad. No, I can't.

[05:24:01] Speaker 17:

Okay. Fair enough.

[05:24:04] Speaker 29:

I can't. I'm sorry.

[05:24:05] Speaker 17:

That's all right. Not a problem.

[05:24:07] Speaker 29:

I appreciate it.

[05:24:11] Speaker 18:

Right by your book. Thank you. Thank you.

[05:24:16] Speaker 34:

Well, let's try these.

[05:24:26] Speaker 29:

I think pink will work. I think that'll work.

[05:24:28] Speaker 18:

Really?

[05:24:38] Speaker 29:

says LC to to bill if you want to read it.

[05:24:49] Speaker 17:

Is it LC two to three? Yes, sir. Would that be consistent with what's fired from those semi automatic? Yes, sir. Thank you. And LC stands for the manufacturer.

[05:24:57] Speaker 29:

Yes, sir.

[05:24:59] Speaker 17:

Two to three is the count. Yes, sir. Thank you. Pass the witness.

[05:25:25] Speaker 04:

How are you, sir? I'm good. How are you doing?

[05:25:28] Speaker 29:

I'm good. I wasn't expecting that accent.

[05:25:30] Speaker 04:

I know. I'm sorry about that. So, um, do I know? So my name is Gary and we've not met before.

[05:25:36] Speaker 29:

No, no, sir. We have not.

[05:25:37] Speaker 04:

And so you understand you've done this a lot before, right? Yes, sir. So you understand I represent on one of the attorneys representing Adrian? Yes, sir. Right? Yes, sir. You know, I've got to ask you some questions. Sure. And you A couple of times, yes. A couple of times. So I'm not going to ask you anything you haven't been asked before. So if I tend to speak too fast, so if I do, just tell me to slow down and if you need me to repeat something again, go again. Sounds good, thank you sir. So I wanted to, let's go back to the beginning of your testimony. Do I address you as Ranger or Lieutenant, just to start off? Whatever is good with you or Jason, that's fine. So if I just call you Ranger, is that good enough to have respect for him? Yes, sir. All right. Okay, so Ranger, I want to talk to you a bit about your training experience because you've been, did you say you've been in law enforcement since 1990?

[05:26:27] Speaker 29:

Yes, sir.

[05:26:28] Speaker 04:

Well, thank you for your service. We appreciate you. So that's a lot of experience.

[05:26:33] Speaker 29:

A little bit, yes, sir.

[05:26:34] Speaker 04:

Yeah, I mean, so I wrote some of it down. You've done a lot of things. You've been a crime scene investigator, right? Yes, sir. You've been a firearms instructor. Are you still a firearms instructor? Yes, sir. So how long have you been doing that?

[05:26:52] Speaker 29:

Since probably 2002.

[05:26:53] Speaker 04:

So you've been doing that? A little bit of time, yes sir. That's 23 years, 24 years now, right? Yes sir. In a quarter of a century, so you've got a lot of experience in the world of firearms and instruction in firearms. Yes sir. But of course, I guess you said that you worked for, were you a DPS trooper at the start? Yes sir. And so at some point you have to go through some kind of academy? Yes sir. Alright. And they teach you basic police tactics or range of tactics, right?

[05:27:26] Speaker 29:

Basic police tactics, yes sir.

[05:27:29] Speaker 04:

Because if you haven't had any police experience before or law enforcement experience before, that's where they teach you the basic stuff, right? Yes sir. And so when we talk about basic stuff, we're talking about report writing, some knowledge of the penal code, stuff like driving, weapon handling, and some tactics that go around basic policing. Yes sir. And you, like I said, one of the basic things he's doing is report writing, right? Yes. Because reports are important. Yes sir. Right, because you try and Make them fair, I would imagine, right? Yes, sir. Because you try to include details in them. Yes, sir. Because on an occasion like today, this incident was three years ago. Yes, sir. Right, so did you prepare a report about this incident? We've prepared many reports about this incident. OK. And have you reviewed any today?

[05:28:26] Speaker 29:

No, sir, I have not today.

[05:28:27] Speaker 04:

Have you reviewed any in preparation for your testimony?

[05:28:31] Speaker 29:

More of the photographs is what I reviewed, a statement and then many of the interviews that I had done.

[05:28:37] Speaker 04:

So let's talk about, so when you say a statement. Yes sir. So you said a statement, is that statement that you made or?

[05:28:45] Speaker 29:

No, it was based off of an interview that I had done. So because you also did interviews in this case, right?

[05:28:50] Speaker 04:

Yes sir. We'll talk about that in a little while. But do you recall how many reports you authored in this case?

[05:29:01] Speaker 29:

No, most of the reports that I authored were based off the interviews that I had conducted.

[05:29:05] Speaker 04:

So, okay, well let me go a different way then. So your investigation of this scene, we've established that you went to the scene and we'll talk about that. I'm talking about the photographs that Mr. Turner's got here from my bill. Is that the right ones?

[05:29:19] Speaker 22:

No, they're right here.

[05:29:20] Speaker 04:

They're the wrong ones. Can I borrow them for a second? Yes. So your, are you on my approach? Witness? Yeah. So your investigation of this It's kind of documented in these photographs, is that for your sake? So you didn't do a written report? No.

[05:29:35] Speaker 29:

No, correct. Yes sir, most of mine was documented by the photographs.

[05:29:40] Speaker 04:

So I guess traditionally you'd have done back when you started, it was probably a handwritten report, right?

[05:29:47] Speaker 29:

Sure, yes sir.

[05:29:48] Speaker 04:

And now it would be a typed report? Correct. So your testimony here today is you didn't do that, you just documented your work through photographs?

[05:29:57] Speaker 29:

Other individuals documented it, mine were through the photographs.

[05:30:01] Speaker 04:

Yeah, your work, so your work was done through these photographs? Correct. Okay cool, so I want to make sure that we're not missing anything with reports or anything like that. Okay, so Let's talk about your job as a, because it sounds like you were a firearms instructor before you were a crime scene investigator.

[05:30:20] Speaker 29:

So, and I say crime scene investigator, I'm a ranger. We usually process most of our crime scenes. So not a crime scene investigator, but more as a ranger that is one of our duties.

[05:30:31] Speaker 04:

So like dual purpose, you get to multitasking. It would be fair to say that you are investigating, but you're also processing the senior cell. Correct, yes sir. Whereas I guess what would happen, sometimes a local PD will come. and patrol officers or detectives will come to a scene and they will call in crime scene folks and they will process the scene. Correct.

[05:30:54] Speaker 29:

Is the ranger we usually do our own?

[05:30:56] Speaker 04:

You can't do both. So when did you specialize in the firearms? Before or after you started doing more of the crime scene stuff? Before. Before. So let's talk about that for a second. So I wanted to, and Judge, may I approach the demonstrative? Yes. Can I talk about Can you see that there? Yes, sir. So this round here, I think it states 2, right? On the left here, I'm indicating the left. So this would indicate, this is a hugely magnified diagram. Yes sir. This isn't a real projectile or round or round of ammunition is it?

[05:32:00] Speaker 29:

No.

[05:32:01] Speaker 04:

This is a diagram. Yes sir. But on the bottom here, the end of the round, the cap if you call it right, X is nine millimeters. Correct. And that would indicate a a round or a projectile that gets fired from a smaller weapon, a handheld weapon. Correct, yes sir. Because I don't want you to show me, but you're probably armed today. Yes sir. Right. And what kind of sidearm do you carry? 357. 357. And that is a...

[05:32:29] Speaker 29:

It's a little bit larger than what this would be.

[05:32:31] Speaker 04:

So that's what I've got. It's a self-loading pistol. Yes sir. Right. But you wear that on your hip. Yes sir. Right. And so that's probably the only weapon you're wearing right now. Correct. But if you were dressed tactically, that would be your secondary. Correct. So that would be your back up weapon? Correct. And your primary weapon would be a long arm?

[05:32:49] Speaker 29:

If I had a long arm at that time, yes sir.

[05:32:51] Speaker 04:

If you were doing any kind of tactical work and the idea of that is you can shoot longer with that? Correct. And it's more accurate? Yes. And if that fails, you ditch it and you go for your secondary. Correct. Which is your visit on the hip. So that's the kind of round that we're talking about here on your diagram. Correct. Not the kind of rounds that Mr Turner showed you. Where are they? Did you put them on there? in states until the 20th of 12.

[05:33:22] Speaker 29:

Correct. The concept is the same, just a different type of weapon.

[05:33:28] Speaker 04:

So the drew, you can see that. These are a different caliber, right? Yes, yes sir. 223, can't be fired through a handgun. But the principle is exactly the same. Yes sir. Right? Although this, because it would have, you can see that, in 12, this has more powder. Correct. So because you said earlier, and we'll go back to the diagram here. So Nico's going to show during the rounds there. So you'd agree, I guess, these are longer than a normal 9mm round, which is what's portrayed here. Correct, yes, sir. So that round is fired out of a longer-barreled weapon. Yes, sir. I'm going to say round, a round of ammunition. Correct. Because that right now is a cartridge. So this is a round of ammunition. Yes, sir. Right. This thing here is the projectile. Yes, sir. Like the bit on the end. This primer gets struck by the firing pin. Yes, sir. Right. You pull the trigger. The spring squeezes, eventually the firing pin goes forward and it strikes this pin. Correct. And you're quite right, you said people think it creates an explosion. Yes. And it's really like a very fast burn. Yes, correct.

[05:35:02] Speaker 29:

And that's what ignites the gunpowder.

[05:35:04] Speaker 04:

It ignites the gunpowder in this cartridge and forces the projectile out of the barrel. Correct. This cartridge is the thing that carries the charge or the power. Correct. The longer the charge or the cartridge, the faster it travels.

[05:35:22] Speaker 29:

Should be, yes.

[05:35:23] Speaker 04:

And if you add that to a barrel, which makes it spin, it's even more deadly, right? That projectile is more deadly. Correct. More accurate. Yes, sir. More accurate. It can travel faster and it can travel further distances. Yes, sir. So that round there is now potentially in the right weapon is much more dangerous than a round fired out of like a 9mm weapon.

[05:35:45] Speaker 29:

It's going to be more powerful.

[05:35:46] Speaker 04:

More powerful, so therefore more dangerous. More power equals more velocity. Correct. More velocity equals more speed. Yes. More speed means more danger. Potentially, yes. Right, potentially. So, and then what happens with these is that the round gets fired and the projectile gets thrown out the end of the barrel, right? It's pushed, spirals down the barrel, and then goes towards its target. And then the weapon recycles. So the weapon will recycle the receiver, or some of the action will go forward, then come backwards on itself. And that's what throws the ejected cartridge out. Because you just want to clear that up. And depending on the ejector that's inside the weapon itself, that depends where that cartridge goes, right?

[05:36:35] Speaker 29:

A lot of things depend on where that cartridge goes but yes that is, it grabs that basically and throws it out.

[05:36:42] Speaker 04:

Because some weapons have slightly different individual characteristics. Correct. They have like general characteristics but that's how you can tell because sometimes there will be markings on the rounds and on the cases that you can say this has been fired by this weapon. Correct. And sometimes that is the ejector. Yes. Because the weapon fires, recycles and as it's coming back it hits the ejector pin, or whatever you want to call it, and it fire the round out. Correct. And generally, most of these weapons are kind of, they recycle to the right.

[05:37:13] Speaker 29:

Yes.

[05:37:14] Speaker 04:

Because I guess...

[05:37:14] Speaker 29:

Most of the ones that I've been involved with, yes.

[05:37:17] Speaker 04:

And I'm assuming, maybe you tell us it's probably because most people are right handed, right? Correct. Because it fires away from the fire's face. Correct. But sometimes, so generally, rounds when they're fired from a long barrel weapon or a handgun go to the right.

[05:37:32] Speaker 29:

That's the intention, yes sir.

[05:37:34] Speaker 04:

That's the intention. because it keeps away from the fire's face. Correct. That would be no good for military or law enforcement. Exactly. It goes away to the right, but sometimes it will go backwards.

[05:37:41] Speaker 28:

Correct.

[05:37:42] Speaker 04:

So there's no real science, there's no real way of accurately saying, does it go backwards or just sideways? Correct. But what we can agree with is that round is more dangerous than one of these.

[05:37:51] Speaker 29:

Potentially, yes, sir.

[05:37:52] Speaker 04:

Yeah, and so therefore that weapon is. Yes. Yeah. And so, because you must do some tactical stuff as well by the sounds of it. Yes. And so when you deploy tactically, what do you have?

[05:38:06] Speaker 29:

A pistol and a rifle.

[05:38:08] Speaker 04:

So your pistol is your secondary? Correct. What kind of rifle would you carry?

[05:38:12] Speaker 29:

A .223.

[05:38:14] Speaker 04:

Okay. And so what range is that accurate over generally?

[05:38:19] Speaker 29:

It could go from long distance, but I would say anywhere from you know, from 50 yards to 100, 200, 250 yards. And I guess it depends on how good your training is, right?

[05:38:29] Speaker 04:

Correct. What other equipment would you have on you?

[05:38:32] Speaker 29:

A bulletproof vest. Potentially, you might have a helmet on.

[05:38:37] Speaker 04:

Yeah. And so let's talk about your vest. So I mean, there's deputies in the room now wearing vests, right? yes and vests come in different types correct right so there's a general bulletproof vest which is generally made of kevlar right yes sir and i guess they are mostly rated against probably stab proof and smaller rounds

[05:39:01] Speaker 29:

Uh, I don't know about the stab proof, but the smaller rounds. Yes, sir.

[05:39:04] Speaker 04:

Yeah. Generally speaking, they're probably not going to stop something like that. Generally, no. Right. And that's that's kind of I guess you might agree with me that that's general police issue is a kevlar vest. Probably what the deputies are wearing here today. They'll stop a smaller round, which is what we were looking at there.

[05:39:24] Speaker 29:

Yes, sir.

[05:39:25] Speaker 04:

Stop. We won't stop one of those.

[05:39:27] Speaker 29:

Usually not depending on That does, but yes sir, typically.

[05:39:32] Speaker 04:

Probably not, right? You wouldn't trust it.

[05:39:34] Speaker 29:

No.

[05:39:36] Speaker 04:

No. And so in order to do that, you need to put something inside the vest, right? Yes. It's normally a Kevlar plate.

[05:39:42] Speaker 29:

A plate.

[05:39:43] Speaker 04:

So you'd probably take your body armor off. You know, sometimes they've got spaces for you to put the plates in them. Yes sir. Right, so you'd have to take your armor off. open it up put the plate in it right at some point but they usually stay with it most of the time unless you stay with it but if you're doing a dual purpose thing you've got your normal vest on right you could have your plates in your bag in a go bag in your vehicle right it depends on that individual yes sir but you probably have plates in yours yes yeah because otherwise you know you would want to risk your life with that right correct yeah of course and that's The, is that the stuff you had on you that day when you went to, when you were in Del Rio and you got this call?

[05:40:33] Speaker 29:

Yeah, I didn't have a helmet on.

[05:40:34] Speaker 04:

You didn't have it on, but you said you'd just finished the deployment or something and you had shorts on? Correct. But you have your equipment available to you?

[05:40:40] Speaker 29:

Yes, yes sir.

[05:40:41] Speaker 04:

Right, and that's the equipment you had with you, right? Yes. Okay. Because, so you, Testified that you are in. I think you said you're in Del Rio. Yes, at the time this came in. Yes, sir. Or you became aware, right? Because you became aware that there was an instant developing correct? I'm assuming so. And that's either through.

[05:41:05] Speaker 29:

I was at the office and somebody had walked up to me and said, hey, we've heard that there's an active shooter. They're at Uvalde. Are you going? And of course, yes.

[05:41:17] Speaker 04:

Right. And so because you're a law enforcement officer. Yes, sir. Right. And you're aware that there's this What you're aware now, at the time you were, did you say it was an active shooter, is that what you said? Yes. So you know that that, you hadn't seen that with your own eyes.

[05:41:36] Speaker 28:

Correct.

[05:41:36] Speaker 04:

But you know what an active shooter means. Yes. And if that, in fact, as we now know, this horrific thing happened actually was an active shooter thing, situation, but you were in Del Rio, there's nothing you could do about it.

[05:41:54] Speaker 29:

Sure, but it's still going to respond.

[05:41:55] Speaker 04:

No, of course. But what I'm saying is you were aware in Del Rio. Yes. And somebody said to you, you know, Lieutenant, there is this situation going on. You've got to go.

[05:42:07] Speaker 29:

Yes.

[05:42:07] Speaker 04:

Right. And you did in fact go.

[05:42:09] Speaker 29:

Yes.

[05:42:10] Speaker 04:

And it's an hour away. Yes. From Del Rio to Uvalde.

[05:42:14] Speaker 29:

Yes, sir.

[05:42:14] Speaker 04:

And all the way there, you're probably receiving more information.

[05:42:17] Speaker 29:

As much as we could.

[05:42:18] Speaker 04:

As much as you could. We're not talking about the communications piece, that's for later on. But you received more and more information, I would imagine, right?

[05:42:26] Speaker 29:

Yes.

[05:42:26] Speaker 04:

As you traveled from your base to the sea.

[05:42:30] Speaker 29:

Yes.

[05:42:30] Speaker 04:

So you're aware of the gravity of this situation. Yes. Now it's developing.

[05:42:35] Speaker 29:

Yes.

[05:42:35] Speaker 04:

But being aware of it doesn't mean you can do anything.

[05:42:39] Speaker 29:

Correct, because I wasn't there at the time.

[05:42:42] Speaker 04:

Because that would make no sense at all, right?

[05:42:45] Speaker 29:

that I was in Del Rio and received the information, but I had to do something then to stop it.

[05:42:51] Speaker 04:

Yeah, just because you're aware. Someone's made you aware because you're a law enforcement officer whether you're off or on duty, really, right?

[05:42:57] Speaker 29:

Yes, sir.

[05:42:57] Speaker 04:

And so just because you're aware of this incident, you can't do anything about it.

[05:43:01] Speaker 29:

Not at that time.

[05:43:02] Speaker 04:

No, sir. Because that can't be the standard, right? Being aware of it.

[05:43:06] Speaker 29:

Can you ask that question again? I'm sorry.

[05:43:08] Speaker 04:

Well, just because you're aware of this situation is going on, you can't do anything to act because you know about it.

[05:43:15] Speaker 29:

Correct. Until I can get there until you can see it. Yes.

[05:43:19] Speaker 04:

Right. And it might sound like a silly question, but no, no, no, I understand. And so I think that you said that when you got to the scene, um, it was, would you agree it was chaotic?

[05:43:32] Speaker 29:

That's the word I was fixing to use yesterday.

[05:43:34] Speaker 04:

I was trying to think of a polite way to put it right. Um, did you review any other reports or any other anything describing the scene?

[05:43:43] Speaker 29:

No.

[05:43:44] Speaker 04:

Because when I'm thinking about a word you might be thinking about using, but it was chaotic.

[05:43:48] Speaker 29:

Very chaotic, yes sir.

[05:43:49] Speaker 04:

And so, and which is not unusual in this kind of incident, right?

[05:43:54] Speaker 29:

Well, it was the first one that I had responded to, but I mean, it was just very chaotic would be the precise word that I would use for it.

[05:44:02] Speaker 04:

Well, let's just talk about that for a second, because you've been, you've got all that experience, right? And this is the lots and lots of training. Yes, sir. And this is the first one you've ever been. Yes, sir. I mean, pray that no one ever has to go to another one ever again.

[05:44:20] Speaker 29:

Oh, 100%.

[05:44:21] Speaker 04:

But even with your training and your I mean, not making light of it, you've got nearly a quarter of a century of firearms training.

[05:44:29] Speaker 29:

Yes, sir.

[05:44:29] Speaker 04:

Most of that as an instructor. Yes, sir. Right? Where you train. Right? Yes. Where you get initial training. Yes. Right? And basic stuff. You get basic tactical training, basic weapons. Yes, sir. Then you've built on that and you've got more advanced training. Yes, sir. And you trained on that. Yes. And you practice it. Yes. And you practice it. Yes, sir. To become efficient. Yes, sir. And to become proficient. Yes, sir. So when you're called to use these skills, they're second nature. Yes, sir. Because finish my sentence for me, if you would. If you Don't use it, you lose it. If you don't use it, you lose it. That's right. So you have to train these skills and hone them and practice them for them to be second nature. So when something happens, you don't have to pause and think memory files. What's going on? What am I supposed to do now? Right?

[05:45:20] Speaker 28:

Correct.

[05:45:21] Speaker 04:

Because what I'm going on to is you said that while you're at the scene, the board's hat team breached the classroom.

[05:45:32] Speaker 28:

Correct.

[05:45:32] Speaker 04:

Right. Now, tell me if you know, it's the Border Patrol Tactical Team.

[05:45:41] Speaker 28:

Correct.

[05:45:42] Speaker 04:

Right, and I don't know, they're a very well-trained bunch. Yes. Right. And they're very proficient in what they do. Yes, sir. And they're very well equipped. Yes. And again, if you know, we can probably assume that they practice a lot. Yes. They train a lot. I would suspect so. So when they operate, they almost don't need to communicate with each other. Correct. To some extent. Yes. But they're so well rehearsed, they get faced with the situation, they know what to do.

[05:46:13] Speaker 29:

Yes, sir.

[05:46:13] Speaker 04:

And in fact, that is what indeed happened here. Yes, sir. Right. Eventually, when the BORTAC team arrived, they were the ones who breached and ended the situation.

[05:46:27] Speaker 28:

Correct.

[05:46:28] Speaker 04:

But you'd agree the difference, the qualities of the BORTAC folks are that all that training, lots and lots of training, lots and lots of practice in order to be able to do that. Correct. And they're properly equipped, right? Yes, sir. Because you'd agree that in order to do some sort of breach like the one that you're talking about, someone's got to be properly equipped.

[05:46:51] Speaker 29:

Well, you would love for that to happen.

[05:46:54] Speaker 04:

Ideally, that's how you would train. Ideally, yes, sir. Training says doing things properly equipped. Correct. We live in a world of health and safety and stuff like that, right?

[05:47:01] Speaker 29:

Sure, so you're going to respond without the helmet and the vest and stuff like that.

[05:47:05] Speaker 04:

Yeah, but so the Bortac team, they were armed with long weapons.

[05:47:11] Speaker 29:

I believe so.

[05:47:12] Speaker 04:

Yeah, and what do I mean, long weapons? I might move around the world. anyway, like a long arm, like the one you found in, you'll find it in a minute, and a pistol.

[05:47:24] Speaker 29:

Yes, sir.

[05:47:25] Speaker 04:

Properly rate vests. Yes. And a shield. Yeah, the one's got there, and with that, right. And so that's what happened there. So, and I'm assuming that you This has all gone on, and once that's happened and been cleared, that's when you can move over to your duties of collecting evidence and documenting the scene and stuff.

[05:47:48] Speaker 28:

Correct.

[05:47:49] Speaker 04:

Yeah, you wouldn't do this while that was going on. No, sir. So after that had happened, this is when you got deployed to do this.

[05:47:58] Speaker 29:

Correct.

[05:47:59] Speaker 04:

Yes, sir. Right. But that wasn't the only thing you did in this case. You said you did some interviews, right? Yes. Let's talk about these photographs first. Just give me one second. So we've mentioned, I'll go get my notes, that you took a photograph, there was some evidence inside the vehicle that indicated ownership, right?

[05:48:32] Speaker 29:

Yes, sir.

[05:48:32] Speaker 04:

And I think it's 63.

[05:48:33] Speaker 29:

Or who had insurance of the vehicle?

[05:48:36] Speaker 04:

Yeah, well, maybe possession of the vehicle, right? Yes, sir. Did you confirm that was?

[05:48:42] Speaker 29:

Through the photographs.

[05:48:52] Speaker 33:

What's the 62? Oh, there you go.

[05:49:00] Speaker 04:

State's 63. I can't read that. Can you read that? You probably can't read one of these. No, I can't read it. Okay, so you tried to ascertain whose vehicle it was, right?

[05:49:11] Speaker 29:

Yes, sir, because through the photographs we could always zoom in if we needed to to see who that individual is.

[05:49:16] Speaker 04:

We now know who was driving that vehicle, right? Yes.

[05:49:18] Speaker 29:

Yeah, who's that? I don't know his name. You don't know his name?

[05:49:22] Speaker 04:

No, sir. Yeah. And there's 64 states. Okay, cool. And then, um, 64 is a cell phone, right? Yes, sir. Do you know whose cell phone that was?

[05:49:40] Speaker 29:

I don't know his name. You know now, right? No, I don't know his name. You don't know his name? No, sir.

[05:49:45] Speaker 04:

You'd agree that it's the guy responsible for this shooting, right? Yes, sir. Yeah. Hold on. I might be able to publish some of them on the screen. That would make it easier than me standing there, right? I mean, so this individual that you, I mean, generally speaking, from what you found, did you know how many rounds of ammunition you found in that vehicle, in that bag?

[05:50:36] Speaker 29:

No, sir. Approximately. No, sir, because we didn't unload those magazines, so I don't know, a bunch.

[05:50:42] Speaker 04:

A bunch, like a lot, so hundreds, that's where I was going. Yes, sir. This person, whoever was driving this vehicle, had another you know, fairly high powered, semi-automatic rifle with hundreds of rounds of ammunition. Potentially, yes sir. Right. And it looks, possibly from looking at this evidence, that that person may have been firing that weapon inside the vehicle. Or around the vehicle. Or around the vehicle. Because there are spent casings inside it. Yes. And so you took those photographs and that's where That's where your part of this investigation ended there at the scene with the truck, right?

[05:51:21] Speaker 28:

Correct.

[05:51:22] Speaker 04:

But I think that you also said, because we spoke earlier about your reports, and you said that you Did some interviews. Yes. Of school people. Yes. School employees. Correct. And that wasn't that day, right?

[05:51:43] Speaker 29:

No sir, this is for the weeks, or for a week probably, every day for the next week or so.

[05:51:49] Speaker 04:

So how long after this incident do you think you did these? What was the time span? Was it the next day? Was it a week later?

[05:51:58] Speaker 29:

So the next day I was dealing with returning property back to agencies who had just left their equipment. So I dealt with that. And then after that it was more of dealing with, I had to go to the hospital the day of, right after this. And not for myself but as part of the investigation and then it was more a list of individuals who were employed at the school, officers that responded, so we broke that up and started conducting interviews. So those are the interviews that I had done.

[05:52:36] Speaker 04:

And so you spoke to a lot of school district employees. I'm not talking about Adrian, I'm talking about staff at the school district. Correct. And so And you spoke to all kinds of people, right? Correct. From coaches, I guess?

[05:52:53] Speaker 29:

I don't believe it was more of staff, principal, secretaries, and then officers that responded.

[05:53:01] Speaker 04:

And, Range, I guess you would agree with me that your investigation showed a practice or a pattern of staff defeating the locks at the school, right? Correct. Yeah. What I mean by that is there was a policy in place in the school district for the doors to be locked, the exterior doors to be locked. Correct. And for the interior doors of classrooms to be locked.

[05:53:29] Speaker 28:

Correct.

[05:53:30] Speaker 04:

Right. And they were fitted, I guess you'd agree with me, with what has been called a lot of these doors, through your investigation, they're called Columbine doors, right? I don't know what that is. Okay. But they were fitted with doors that can only be locked from the outside.

[05:53:47] Speaker 28:

Correct.

[05:53:49] Speaker 04:

And there's a purpose for that, right?

[05:53:52] Speaker 29:

From, may I? From the individuals that I spoke to, the purpose for that was so a student couldn't lock a teacher outside the door.

[05:54:02] Speaker 04:

Okay, right, but that's a valid purpose, right? But you know through your law, because you've been a firearms instructor for 24 years, right? You were around just after Columbine in 1999, and you've done lots of training in active shooters. Yes sir. One of the reasons that those doors are supposed to lock is so that people like the person who committed this unspeakable act can't gain access to the building. Yes sir. If it's locked, presumably they don't have access to the kids. It would be harder to get into the school, yes sir. Yeah, if it's locked you can't get in through a locked door without breaching it. Correct. Right, because these doors are pretty substantial. Yes sir. They're metal. Yes sir. You've got metal frames. Yes sir. So if you were to go in, you would need, and your team would need special equipment to get into that. Correct. So the reason they're locked is so the kid can't play a prank on their teachers, right? Sure. But also for more sinister reasons to prevent things like this happening.

[05:55:06] Speaker 28:

Correct.

[05:55:08] Speaker 04:

And that's just the external doors.

[05:55:11] Speaker 29:

Yes, sir. I was speaking about the ones inside the classroom.

[05:55:14] Speaker 04:

But external and internal, right? Yes. But your investigation showed a pattern of staff defeating these locks.

[05:55:25] Speaker 29:

Based on interviews I had done, yes sir, there were staff that wouldn't always lock the inside doors.

[05:55:33] Speaker 04:

Yeah, and I appreciate that. But your investigation showed that the school had magnets that they could place on the doors to defeat the locks.

[05:55:43] Speaker 28:

Correct.

[05:55:44] Speaker 04:

And they would give them out to staff.

[05:55:45] Speaker 29:

Now that I don't know. But I know there were some teachers that utilize those. Now, do I know if the school gave those out? I don't know anything about that.

[05:55:55] Speaker 04:

You don't recall being told that these magnets were given to substitute teachers because they wouldn't be able to get in and out.

[05:56:05] Speaker 29:

This is very true. Yes, sir. But your normal staff, no. But substitute teachers, so because they weren't given a key to the classroom, they would be given those.

[05:56:14] Speaker 04:

And I know you're I think you're probably aware there was a policy that was against the school policy.

[05:56:22] Speaker 29:

I would suspect so.

[05:56:24] Speaker 04:

Yeah. Thank you, Roger. So just to confirm that your investigation revealed that there was a pattern of leaving these doors unlocked. Yes. There was a pattern of defeating the door locks with magnets. Yes sir. And on this day when you were there, you now know that these doors were in fact all unlocked.

[05:57:03] Speaker 29:

At the time, I was under the same impression as everybody else that the door was locked. Then we come to find out that I've been told based off of that crime scene investigation that that door was unlocked.

[05:57:16] Speaker 04:

Well, let's just talk about that for a second. So we'll deal with the end of it first, right? So now, through your investigation, I appreciate your account, Ranger, that you now know, we now know, that those doors were all unlocked.

[05:57:27] Speaker 29:

I know that one door was unlocked.

[05:57:29] Speaker 04:

The one on the west, right? Yes. Is that one you referred to?

[05:57:32] Speaker 29:

The door, I don't know what classroom door that is.

[05:57:35] Speaker 04:

No, no, no, my approach, my approach was. Yes. Just to clarify. Yes, sir. This is the demonstrative of the scene, right? Yes, sir. And this is the school? Correct. And this is the new building or the west building? That's what it's called, right? And you'd agree this is the south door? Correct. When you say we know the third door, you said the third door was unlocked, we're talking about this west one.

[05:58:06] Speaker 29:

No, sir. I was talking about the inside door.

[05:58:08] Speaker 04:

Oh, the inside door to the classrooms?

[05:58:10] Speaker 29:

Correct. Yeah, they were locked. They were unlocked, sorry. One of those that I know of was unlocked.

[05:58:15] Speaker 04:

Did you know that one of the door locks wasn't even working?

[05:58:18] Speaker 29:

No, sir. You didn't know that? No, sir. I take it back. I knew that they'd been having problems with one of them because they had reported it to maintenance that one of the doors was not working.

[05:58:29] Speaker 04:

And nothing had been done about it, right? Correct. So the school knew that that door wouldn't open, that wouldn't lock? That they were having issues with it, yes, sir. Right, and it had been reported to maintenance?

[05:58:37] Speaker 29:

That's what I had been advised.

[05:58:38] Speaker 04:

And nothing had been done about it? Correct. It was supposed to be locked? Yes, sir. It was unlocked. Do you also know through investigation now, I guess you could agree, that the external doors were also unlocked?

[05:58:48] Speaker 29:

Not based on my investigation, but based off of information I had heard, yes, sir. Okay, cool.

[05:59:00] Speaker 17:

I'd like to start with this whole idea about the common pattern of defeating these Columbine doors being the magnets.

[05:59:15] Speaker 29:

You're going to have to ask that question a different way.

[05:59:19] Speaker 17:

Fair enough. I believe the defense asked you about the common practice of using magnets.

[05:59:26] Speaker 29:

I don't know about Columbine, but I'd heard that there had been individual teachers that were using magnets so the doors would not lock.

[05:59:35] Speaker 17:

I just used the word Columbine because he used that for the name lock. I'll back off of that. The whole issue is pattern of using magnets so doors wouldn't lock.

[05:59:44] Speaker 28:

Yes, sir.

[05:59:45] Speaker 17:

door locking is a safety precaution.

[05:59:49] Speaker 28:

Correct.

[05:59:50] Speaker 17:

To protect, I believe the defense said from things like this happening. Correct. And school district police officers are also employed to keep things like this from happening.

[06:00:03] Speaker 29:

Yes, sir.

[06:00:04] Speaker 17:

And provide security for the students.

[06:00:06] Speaker 29:

Yes, sir.

[06:00:07] Speaker 17:

And staff and determine whether or not there was a common practice not to lock doors.

[06:00:13] Speaker 04:

I'll give Jay that course of speculation, Judge.

[06:00:17] Speaker 17:

This is what his training has been.

[06:00:19] Speaker 27:

Oh, a ruling objection you can answer if you know?

[06:00:24] Speaker 29:

I don't know. You don't know? They would know that there is a common practice going on. Would they be aware of that? You would suspect that if they are there at that campus that they'd be aware of that.

[06:00:36] Speaker 17:

The school district police officer, you would suspect they would know if there's a common practice of defeating the locks with magnets?

[06:00:42] Speaker 29:

Yes, sir.

[06:00:43] Speaker 17:

And whose job would it be then to correct that?

[06:00:46] Speaker 29:

The staff or that officer?

[06:00:50] Speaker 17:

In charge of the security? Correct. To keep that from happening?

[06:00:53] Speaker 29:

Yes, sir.

[06:00:53] Speaker 17:

Did you have any indication that any of the school district police officers corrected the problem, the common problem, of using magnets to defeat the locks?

[06:01:03] Speaker 29:

No, sir. I didn't interview any of those individuals.

[06:01:06] Speaker 17:

And Adrian Gonzalez was a school district police officer?

[06:01:10] Speaker 29:

I don't know Adrian Gonzalez.

[06:01:17] Speaker 17:

I'd like to also speak to you about the casings you found inside the car.

[06:01:23] Speaker 29:

Yes.

[06:01:24] Speaker 17:

And just to be clear, the casing could end up inside the car because the weapon was fired inside the car. It could. And the casing ejected. Yes, sir. But if a window is broken out, can a casing escape a weapon outside the car and enter the car?

[06:01:43] Speaker 29:

Sure. Yes, sir.

[06:01:44] Speaker 17:

And was there a window broken out in this case? Yes. In this vehicle?

[06:01:48] Speaker 29:

Front passenger window.

[06:01:49] Speaker 17:

So it would be completely consistent with being just outside the car for two casings to end up inside the car?

[06:01:55] Speaker 29:

It could. Yes, sir.

[06:02:00] Speaker 17:

And I wanted to talk to you also about the suggestion about to do anything about it, you need to see it, right?

[06:02:07] Speaker 29:

You would have to be present.

[06:02:08] Speaker 17:

Present. You were in Del Rio?

[06:02:12] Speaker 29:

Yes.

[06:02:14] Speaker 17:

You couldn't do anything about it in Del Rio? Correct. So what did you do? Responded. What does responded mean?

[06:02:22] Speaker 29:

I went to that location.

[06:02:24] Speaker 17:

To do something about it? Yes. If needed?

[06:02:27] Speaker 29:

Yes.

[06:02:28] Speaker 17:

And you got to that location? Yes. And fortunately you weren't needed at that point?

[06:02:33] Speaker 28:

Correct.

[06:02:35] Speaker 17:

But if you get to a location and you can't see an active shooter, but you can hear an active shooter, What do you do?

[06:02:44] Speaker 29:

You respond to that location. Go to see it? Not just to see it, but to respond and to initiate whatever you can do to stop it.

[06:02:57] Speaker 17:

So in active shooting, and you hear shooting, to do something about it, you go to it?

[06:03:03] Speaker 28:

Correct.

[06:03:04] Speaker 17:

You don't look for cover?

[06:03:05] Speaker 28:

Correct.

[06:03:07] Speaker 17:

But we talked about equipment. If you don't have your helmet on, then it's okay to look for cover, right?

[06:03:13] Speaker 29:

No, sir.

[06:03:15] Speaker 17:

If you don't have your rifle, but only a sidearm, it's okay to look for cover, isn't it?

[06:03:19] Speaker 15:

No, sir.

[06:03:30] Speaker 17:

What are the limitations If you explain to the jury, what are the limitations about going to shots fired in an active shooter situation?

[06:03:42] Speaker 29:

There's not a limitation.

[06:03:44] Speaker 17:

There's not a limitation?

[06:03:45] Speaker 29:

I wouldn't say so.

[06:03:46] Speaker 17:

The rule is what?

[06:03:48] Speaker 29:

To engage.

[06:03:50] Speaker 04:

To stop the killing. So I just want to clear up a couple of things we talked about there. So you interviewed several staff at the school, even the principal. Even the principal told you that they would defeat these locks with that magnet.

[06:04:17] Speaker 29:

I can't remember which individual said, but based off the interviews I had conducted, now if she had said that, that's a possibility. I just don't remember which individual told me that.

[06:04:28] Speaker 04:

You spoke to Principal Gutierrez, right? Yes. If I represent to you that she told you that, would you have a reason to doubt me? No, sir. I appreciate that. Nevertheless, there was a pattern of practice of leaving these doors open. Yes. Leaving them unlocked. Unlocked. That's what I mean. When I say open, I mean unlocked. Yes. Which is a safety issue, right? Yes. And part of that safety thing is to prevent something like this from happening. Correct. And so the prosecutor just asked you about school police officers and their duties. Now you investigated this incident. You know through investigation that Adrian wasn't assigned to this school.

[06:05:08] Speaker 29:

I don't know anything about Adrian.

[06:05:11] Speaker 04:

All right, let me ask you a different question. You know there was no officer assigned to that school?

[06:05:17] Speaker 29:

No, sir. I don't know anything about the officers at the school.

[06:05:20] Speaker 04:

Through your investigation, you didn't know that?

[06:05:22] Speaker 29:

No, because mine was compartmentalized to specific things.

[06:05:26] Speaker 04:

Right, OK. But if there wasn't a school resource officer assigned to that school, then it'd be difficult for that non-existent school resource officer to report things to the school, right?

[06:05:38] Speaker 29:

If he had never been there, then no, he wouldn't know that.

[06:06:09] Speaker 04:

No further questions.

[06:06:11] Speaker 17:

Thank you. No further questions.

[06:06:13] Speaker 15:

Recall the other side.

[06:06:15] Speaker 17:

Uh, we don't need to recall him. You're subject to recall.

[06:06:18] Speaker 27:

Okay, Ranger. The rules have been invoked. I think you're familiar with that. Please don't discuss the case with anyone be available for recall. And once again, when you know the case is over with and the rule is over, you can talk about. Thank you. Thank you.

[06:06:42] Speaker 18:

This is the other five. Which one's this? Oh, did they go in? They did.

[06:06:47] Speaker 25:

The other five are the ones that you objected to earlier.

[06:06:53] Speaker 18:

What do you object to? I don't understand. Justin Duck, he just did the subsequent stuff.

[06:07:24] Speaker 27:

Sit there and adjust that microphone, make you comfortable and speak up so everyone can hear you.

[06:07:38] Speaker 17:

Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Would you tell us what your name is? My name is Justin Duck. Justin Duck, what do you do for a living?

[06:07:45] Speaker 11:

I'm a captain with the Texas Department of Public Safety.

[06:07:48] Speaker 17:

And where do you work? I work at Austin headquarters for DPS. Okay. How long have you worked there? little over 19 years now. And could you just give us a brief history of what you've done there?

[06:08:01] Speaker 11:

Yes, I started in 2006 as a Texas Highway Patrol Trooper out of Houston. In 2012, I promoted into the Criminal Investigations Division where we investigated forgery, fraud, motor vehicle theft, and violations of the Texas Racing Act. In 2016, I promoted into the Texas Rangers, which is the major investigative branch for the Department of Public Safety. In 2024, I promoted into the Office of Inspector General as a Lieutenant, and there's basically the internal affairs of DPS. And in earlier this year, late or mid 2025, I promoted into my current position in the Human Resources Operations Division.

[06:08:43] Speaker 17:

And back in 2022, what were you doing? I was a Texas Ranger stationed out of the Waco area. Out of where? Waco area. And did you end up in Uvalde around May 24 or soon thereafter of 2022? Yes, sir, I did. How did you end up doing that?

[06:09:00] Speaker 11:

In my time in the Rangers, I was part of the crime scene investigation team. And so when the shooting happened on May the 24th, we were activated and told to respond to Uvalde.

[06:09:10] Speaker 17:

And when did you respond? May the 24th. And how long a drive is that?

[06:09:16] Speaker 11:

You know, I don't recall exactly, but it was several hours from Waco.

[06:09:19] Speaker 17:

OK. And were you given an assignment on searching a truck?

[06:09:23] Speaker 11:

Yes.

[06:09:24] Speaker 17:

And tell us about that.

[06:09:26] Speaker 11:

So the morning of May the 25th would be the following morning. I was assigned to process a 2008 Ford F-150 that had been wrecked into the drainage ditch just south of Geraldine in South Grove there next to Uvalde. I'm sorry, next to the Robb Elementary School.

[06:09:40] Speaker 17:

And we've just looked at photographs of May 24th when the truck is in a nice, clean ditch, correct?

[06:09:48] Speaker 11:

Yes, sir.

[06:09:49] Speaker 17:

Did anything change about that?

[06:09:51] Speaker 11:

Yes, sir. The night of the 24th, it rained, and so the ditch filled with water.

[06:09:56] Speaker 17:

And how did that complicate your work?

[06:09:59] Speaker 11:

Well, any evidence that would have been immediately around the outside of the truck, it was now covered in water and difficult to locate.

[06:10:05] Speaker 17:

And so did y'all just give up?

[06:10:08] Speaker 11:

No, sir.

[06:10:09] Speaker 17:

Tell us what you did.

[06:10:10] Speaker 11:

We searched the truck and the area around the truck and we found numerous items both in the water and inside the vehicle.

[06:10:16] Speaker 17:

How'd you do that?

[06:10:17] Speaker 11:

Well, we had to put our rubber boots on to get into the water.

[06:10:21] Speaker 17:

Okay. And what did you recover?

[06:10:23] Speaker 11:

From the water next to the truck, we recovered a duffel bag with a rifle and six loaded magazines.

[06:10:31] Speaker 17:

And did you recover any were any spent casings recovered that day or the next?

[06:10:37] Speaker 11:

Yes, sir. So the day of the 25th, there were two spent casings or fire cartridges located inside the 2008 Ford pickup one near the rear passenger door and one near the front passenger door on the floor. Ranger Cody Allen also recovered a fire cartridge from underneath the water there next to the truck. Just by feeling around by feel he located one And then on May the 27th, Rangers Scott Swick, after the water receded, a little went out and found a fourth firing cartridge.

[06:11:08] Speaker 17:

So over a three day period, y'all end up recovering a total of four spent casings?

[06:11:14] Speaker 11:

Yes.

[06:11:14] Speaker 17:

Either in the truck or close by?

[06:11:16] Speaker 11:

Yes, sir.

[06:11:17] Speaker 17:

And that's from just searching with your hands into the mud and then thereafter as it recedes, another casing is recovered? Yes, sir. And have you had a chance to look at photographs of that, of those two searches? Yes. And are they fair and accurate depictions of the search? Yes. State now offers exhibit 76 through 80. No objection, Judge. May we display those to the jury, Your Honor. Ranger Duck, if you'll look behind your left shoulder. Can you tell us what we're looking at here?

[06:12:38] Speaker 11:

That's going to be the right side of the 2008 Ford F-150, as it said in the drainage ditch in the water.

[06:12:44] Speaker 17:

So that shows what happened to you overnight of the 24th and the morning then of the 25th.

[06:12:49] Speaker 11:

Yes, sir.

[06:12:50] Speaker 17:

And that's where y'all searched around in that water and we're able to recover at least one casing that morning. Is that correct?

[06:12:57] Speaker 11:

We recovered two more from inside the truck, but one from the water.

[06:13:01] Speaker 17:

You actually picked up the casings inside the truck?

[06:13:03] Speaker 11:

Yes.

[06:13:04] Speaker 17:

Okay. Thank you. And exhibit 77. Is that a fair and accurate depiction of the condition of the of the drainage dish that y'all searched?

[06:13:21] Speaker 25:

Yes, sir.

[06:13:24] Speaker 17:

And 78. You can tell us what we're looking at here.

[06:13:31] Speaker 11:

Yes, sir, that's going to be the front right of the pickup truck there sitting in the water and you'll be able to see Ranger Cody Allen's feet there as he's digging into the water.

[06:13:43] Speaker 17:

And front right, that would be the front passenger side, right, his passenger side?

[06:13:48] Speaker 11:

Yes, sir.

[06:13:48] Speaker 17:

And that's the general location where something was recovered? Yes. And exhibit 79?

[06:13:53] Speaker 11:

That's going to be Ranger Allen with the spent cartridge in his hand, too.

[06:13:59] Speaker 17:

That's as he brings it up? Yes, sir. It's photographed. Would you point that out to the jury where it is? You're welcome to just walk over there. And was that a live cartridge or spent casing?

[06:14:12] Speaker 11:

That was a spent casing.

[06:14:14] Speaker 17:

Thank you. And then there was a subsequent search of the dish the next day, is that correct? It would have been on the 27th. Two days later? Yes, sir. And had the water receded to some degree? Yes. And on the bank there, is there a cartridge? Yes. Would you point that out also for the jury? Yes. Thank you. And then the photograph zooms up on that. And it's a little bit more evident that it's a cartridge. Is that correct? Yes, sir. And y'all attach evidence tags to cartridges? Yes. And states exhibit two, is that what you're doing here?

[06:14:58] Speaker 11:

Yes, that's Ranger Scotswick holding the number 39 next to the fire cartridge.

[06:15:03] Speaker 17:

And states exhibit 83?

[06:15:07] Speaker 11:

It's going to be the same photo just zoomed in.

[06:15:10] Speaker 17:

And 84.

[06:15:13] Speaker 11:

Same cartridge just with a picture of the head stamp.

[06:15:17] Speaker 17:

And the head stamp is for what purpose?

[06:15:20] Speaker 11:

I wanted to make sure that we could identify that later on if we needed to by brand or whatever.

[06:15:26] Speaker 17:

And was that brand LC-223?

[06:15:28] Speaker 11:

LC-22 is what it stamped to, yep.

[06:15:30] Speaker 17:

Thank you. May I approach? Yes. Just next.

[06:16:06] Speaker 12:

Ranger Doug, I'm going to ask you just a couple of questions. How long did it take for you guys to process this evidence?

[06:16:13] Speaker 11:

You know, I don't know. We started shortly after 11 a.m. that morning, and I believe we released the truck late that afternoon, around five o'clock or so.

[06:16:21] Speaker 12:

But there were Rangers at the scene the day before. Is that a fair statement? Yes. Ranger Shea? Yes. I'm just saying, from this evidence, was this a specific duty you were assigned to, to do something different? with these shells versus what he was doing?

[06:16:38] Speaker 11:

You know, I don't know exactly what he was doing out there.

[06:16:42] Speaker 12:

But you're saying all day of your investigation, this is the evidence that you retrieved from the truck?

[06:16:48] Speaker 11:

No, that's not the only two items we retrieved from the truck.

[06:16:51] Speaker 12:

Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

[06:16:57] Speaker 17:

Exhibits 11 and 13.

[06:16:58] Speaker 27:

All right. If no further objection, then they're good.

[06:17:02] Speaker 13:

No objection, Judge.

[06:17:06] Speaker 12:

I should have waited. I'm sorry, Ranger. My name is Nico LaHood. Yes, sir. And I'm one of the lawyers who represents Adrian. You've testified before, right? Yes, sir. First of all, you look young to be on the floors for 19 years. Well, thank you, God, for sure. So I started asking you during the whole diary, but I should have waited until now. Were you not coordinating with Ranger Shea?

[06:17:31] Speaker 11:

You know Ranger Shea, correct? I do.

[06:17:33] Speaker 12:

Yeah, I know Jason Shea. And who assigned you to do what you did?

[06:17:36] Speaker 11:

I want to say I got this assignment from Ranger Brent Barina who was the crime scene team lead the following day on the morning of the 25th.

[06:17:44] Speaker 12:

And was that Ranger in charge of dispensing assignments to you and Ranger Shea and everyone else?

[06:17:50] Speaker 11:

I think so, yeah.

[06:17:51] Speaker 12:

How many Rangers total investigated this scene?

[06:17:54] Speaker 11:

This particular scene, Jason was there the day of on the 24th. Nick Hill, Cody Allen and myself were there only 25th. And then there were a I don't know exactly how many, but some other Rangers went back after the waters have receded to check one more time on the 27th.

[06:18:11] Speaker 12:

And so excuse if I ask you this, but what was your specific assignment?

[06:18:15] Speaker 11:

I was to assist in processing this truck for evidence.

[06:18:18] Speaker 12:

And when you say processing, because that's a term of art in investigations, right? Yes. Will you explain to the jury what processing means?

[06:18:23] Speaker 11:

Sure. So we're going to be looking for any evidence that's in there that we can recover. And then two, we did some swabbing of DNA and things like that.

[06:18:32] Speaker 12:

And if I can ask, why wasn't this done the first day?

[06:18:35] Speaker 11:

You know, I don't know. I don't know that.

[06:18:39] Speaker 12:

But you know that Ranger Shea was there the day before you, or sometime before you. I do, yeah. Because it's been entered into evidence. We saw these spent shell casings. that Rangers Shay took.

[06:18:49] Speaker 11:

I know that he took some photographs the day before on the 24th.

[06:18:54] Speaker 12:

What did you review before your your testimony today?

[06:18:56] Speaker 11:

I reviewed my reports. Nicco had a report of all the events that we collected and then I reviewed the photographs that uh that we just went over.

[06:19:04] Speaker 12:

And was your report part of a bigger report or do you have an individual report?

[06:19:08] Speaker 11:

Uh I had one supplement or a couple of supplements within a larger investigative file.

[06:19:16] Speaker 12:

Judge, presumed to 612 and 615, I'm assuming is that all part of the discovery that we were given?

[06:19:20] Speaker 32:

Yes.

[06:19:26] Speaker 12:

Okay. And so, so this was, you didn't have, we don't have a live suspect at this time, obviously, right?

[06:19:33] Speaker 11:

Not that, not that we're aware of at this particular time.

[06:19:36] Speaker 12:

Well, the person responsible for injuring those children had passed. You're aware of that at the time?

[06:19:43] Speaker 33:

Yes, yes.

[06:19:45] Speaker 12:

And so you're collecting evidence, not for a criminal investigation, just for what?

[06:19:52] Speaker 11:

Well, at that particular time, yes, the individual that wrecked the truck there was deceased. But at that particular time, I don't know that we knew if he had any other help.

[06:20:00] Speaker 12:

But that's where I was going. It wasn't sure if he had anybody else helping him to assist in this evil act.

[06:20:07] Speaker 11:

At that particular time, we didn't know that.

[06:20:09] Speaker 12:

Do you know how long it took for you guys to realize that he was acting alone?

[06:20:13] Speaker 11:

No, sir, I do not.

[06:20:14] Speaker 12:

Now, did you recover full magazines? I think you testified six loaded magazines.

[06:20:20] Speaker 11:

From the bag, the duffel bag that was on the ground.

[06:20:22] Speaker 12:

And most people call those clips. We know that's a magazine where you put the rounds in, and you enter into the weapon, you chamber it, and then you can shoot a weapon. And did you check whether they were fully loaded or not?

[06:20:34] Speaker 11:

I did not, someone else did.

[06:20:36] Speaker 12:

Do you know who did?

[06:20:37] Speaker 11:

No.

[06:20:38] Speaker 12:

Do you know if they were fully loaded?

[06:20:40] Speaker 11:

I couldn't tell if they had, you know, 28 or 30 in there, I couldn't tell, but they were, they appeared to be loaded.

[06:20:45] Speaker 12:

And typical magazines for a weapon like this usually carry up to 30 rounds, correct? Yes. So this was potentially 180 rounds, potentially? Yes. And so you could fit a two to three round in that? into that magazine? Yes. Or a 5.56? Yes. Can you explain that to the jury, the difference? Because that kind of came up with Ranger Shay that what rounds can fit in what magazines.

[06:21:08] Speaker 11:

So generally, 2.23 and 5.56 are one and the same for most weapons.

[06:21:15] Speaker 12:

I'm sorry, say that one more time?

[06:21:16] Speaker 11:

Generally, 2.23 and 5.56 are somewhat interchangeable for most of those AR style rifles.

[06:21:22] Speaker 12:

On a revolver, it's kind of like a .357 and a .38.

[06:21:25] Speaker 11:

38 Special, yes.

[06:21:26] Speaker 12:

38 Special, right. You can actually, you can only do a 38 and a 357. You can't do a 357 and a 38. I'll take your word for it. Okay, fair enough. Thank you for that. What did you do with the evidence? Like, who were you reporting back to? What did you do with the evidence that you collected?

[06:21:46] Speaker 11:

So evidence I collected, I turned it over to Ranger Nick Hill, and then Ranger Nick Hill submitted it further from there.

[06:21:51] Speaker 12:

Submitted it to whom?

[06:21:52] Speaker 11:

You know, I don't know exactly.

[06:21:54] Speaker 12:

Okay. Did you do anything else further in this investigation?

[06:22:00] Speaker 11:

When I initially got there I was in charge of documenting some of the bodies in the classrooms and helping get them to the transport vehicles. So we'd get them over to the medical examiner's office and then after this I was assigned in the kind of the evidence section helping out there.

[06:22:19] Speaker 12:

So there wasn't a conclusion to your portion. You just did what you were supposed to do and then you pass it on. Yes, thank you. Ranger pass away.

[06:22:26] Speaker 17:

No further questions.

[06:22:29] Speaker 27:

She was subject to recall either side.

[06:22:32] Speaker 17:

The state doesn't need.

[06:22:33] Speaker 12:

Yes, sir, please.

[06:22:35] Speaker 27:

OK, sir, the rules went above. You know what that is. Please don't discuss the case with anybody until you know the case is over with and you've been released from the rule. You are subject to recall, so please stay in touch with the state. But you're excused for the time being.

[06:22:48] Speaker 25:

Thank you very much.

[06:22:53] Speaker 27:

All right, ladies and gentlemen, I'll go ahead and give you your afternoon recess. Take 15 minutes. Please remember my instructions, and we'll see you back in 15. Would everyone please rise for the jury? We are in recess. Thank you.

[06:48:29] Speaker 23:

Okay, could you raise your hand for me, please?

[06:48:46] Speaker 27:

You just saw this where the evidence and the testimony given the cause of the truth. So go ahead and say make yourself comfortable. Adjust the microphone if you need to and speak up for us. Thank you.

[06:49:07] Speaker 17:

Hello.

[06:49:08] Speaker 15:

Did you tell us your name?

[06:49:09] Speaker 03:

Stephanie Hill.

[06:49:11] Speaker 15:

Ms. Hill, what do you do for a living?

[06:49:13] Speaker 03:

Currently, I'm a marketing coordinator at the hospital in Uvalde.

[06:49:18] Speaker 15:

Uvalde Hospital?

[06:49:19] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[06:49:19] Speaker 15:

How long have you been doing that?

[06:49:21] Speaker 03:

Since July.

[06:49:22] Speaker 15:

And before that, what did you do?

[06:49:24] Speaker 03:

I was a teacher.

[06:49:26] Speaker 15:

Where were you a teacher?

[06:49:28] Speaker 03:

I started in Cal Allen and then moved to Uvalde at Robb.

[06:49:33] Speaker 15:

What did you do with Robb?

[06:49:34] Speaker 03:

I was a third grade teacher.

[06:49:36] Speaker 17:

Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

[06:49:48] Speaker 03:

We had awards in the morning and then we went back to the classroom and it was a pretty relaxed day, watched movies, had snacks. And then I don't know how far you want me to go into that. Okay, so what is awards day? It happened quarterly and they would get awards for top AR readers, A.B. honor roll, citizenship awards, all of those things. So just celebrating the kids and their achievements. Yes, sir.

[06:50:20] Speaker 17:

And where does it take place?

[06:50:22] Speaker 03:

The cafeteria.

[06:50:24] Speaker 17:

And it's just people rotate in and out in the morning?

[06:50:27] Speaker 03:

Yes, based on the grade levels.

[06:50:29] Speaker 17:

And is it kind of a free day then for the kids?

[06:50:32] Speaker 03:

Kind of, sort of, I guess. We have fun.

[06:50:36] Speaker 17:

That's a day of fun.

[06:50:38] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[06:50:38] Speaker 17:

So when did you all finish your awards?

[06:50:42] Speaker 03:

We had ours in the morning. It was, I couldn't really tell you, nine, maybe nine, between nine and ten I guess.

[06:50:50] Speaker 17:

What did you do after the awards?

[06:50:52] Speaker 03:

We went back to the classroom for a little bit and then until it was time for them to go to rotation at the library.

[06:50:59] Speaker 17:

So you went to the library after you were in the classroom? Yes. And then next what did you do?

[06:51:05] Speaker 03:

After I dropped them off, I went to a math interventionist room in the fourth grade building and looked at some math manipulatives until it was time to pick my kids up from the library. And I actually picked them up about 10, 15 minutes early that day so we could have extra recess.

[06:51:26] Speaker 17:

So you got them out early to go have recess? Yes. Where's recess?

[06:51:31] Speaker 03:

On the playground. I'm going to say maybe the south side of the school.

[06:51:37] Speaker 17:

OK, we'll take a look at that in a minute. I just kind of want to walk through the day first, OK? So you got out, you were headed for the playground on the south side of the school. Yes. And tell me what happened then.

[06:51:52] Speaker 03:

We stopped at the classroom first to grab lunch boxes, use the restroom. And then we are walking to the playground and it sounded like the trash, the dumpster was picking up the trash. And I thought to myself, that's weird, they usually do that in the morning.

[06:52:10] Speaker 17:

What do you mean it sounded like a dumpster picking up trash?

[06:52:13] Speaker 03:

Like the dumpster truck, you know how it picks it up and it dumps all the trash. I don't know, it makes it loud. noise to me, so that's what it sounded like.

[06:52:23] Speaker 17:

So that's what you heard?

[06:52:24] Speaker 03:

Yes, at first.

[06:52:27] Speaker 17:

So it didn't ring a bell as a concern?

[06:52:30] Speaker 03:

I mean, it was interesting. It was a little weird and odd. And I remember thinking to myself, that's strange. They usually do that in the morning. Um, and then I just became, I guess, a little more aware of my surroundings. Okay.

[06:52:48] Speaker 17:

Did you continue on to the playground?

[06:52:50] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[06:52:51] Speaker 17:

And did you get to the playground? Yes. And how long were you at the playground?

[06:52:57] Speaker 03:

I'm not 100% sure, maybe five minutes.

[06:53:03] Speaker 17:

A short period of time?

[06:53:04] Speaker 03:

Yes, a short period of time.

[06:53:05] Speaker 17:

What is it that disturbs your playground activity?

[06:53:09] Speaker 03:

We heard sounds and to me, I thought they were fireworks. That's what it sounded like and then another teacher also said that's kind of strange and then We walked I walked to they had like bleachers in the middle of the playground so I could see my kids and I didn't make it there until coach Gonzales picked up his radio and Started yelling for us to get inside

[06:53:42] Speaker 17:

So the combination of hearing these fireworks and Coach Gonzalez, did you draw a conclusion from that?

[06:53:48] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[06:53:49] Speaker 17:

And what was that?

[06:53:50] Speaker 03:

That there was gun or gunfire. If something was wrong. Yes, we could when we were standing there, the dirt was kind of you could see the dirt cloud up kind of coming towards us. And then as we were all running into the classroom, I saw the, I don't know what to call him, horrible person, walking.

[06:54:37] Speaker 17:

Just take your time, we can hold on.

[06:54:53] Speaker 03:

Walking towards the the door.

[06:54:56] Speaker 15:

Can you describe him for us?

[06:54:58] Speaker 03:

He had black, all black, long hair, and a gun.

[06:55:03] Speaker 17:

You saw a gun? Can you describe that for us?

[06:55:07] Speaker 03:

I mean, I'm not really a gun person, but it's long and black, so.

[06:55:12] Speaker 17:

And about this, this dirt being, would you say plowed out? I need to understand that a little better.

[06:55:20] Speaker 03:

Um, like I, I don't know if you dropped something in dirt or sand, I guess, and it kind of makes a cloud. And then it, I don't know how else to explain it.

[06:55:33] Speaker 15:

OK, and did you see one of those clouds or more than one?

[06:55:35] Speaker 03:

More than one.

[06:55:36] Speaker 18:

More than one. And so how many children did you have with you?

[06:55:42] Speaker 03:

In my personal class, they were all together.

[06:55:46] Speaker 15:

Good question. Let's start with your class.

[06:55:48] Speaker 03:

At the time, I wasn't 100% sure, but I think there was about 10 to 12 students.

[06:55:56] Speaker 17:

With you?

[06:55:56] Speaker 03:

Yes. The rest had left.

[06:55:58] Speaker 17:

And there was another class out there?

[06:56:01] Speaker 03:

There were several other classes on the playground.

[06:56:04] Speaker 17:

At the time this popping of the door was going on?

[06:56:07] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[06:56:09] Speaker 17:

Do they all allow to intermix them for that? Yes. OK. So the coach is giving you instructions. You have your own confirmations. You actually see somebody with a gun. Pretty stressful?

[06:56:26] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[06:56:29] Speaker 17:

Did it prevent you from acting?

[06:56:31] Speaker 03:

No.

[06:56:32] Speaker 18:

What did you do?

[06:56:34] Speaker 03:

I yelled to the kids to get in the classrooms. The second grade teachers had opened their doors to let us in and I went to the first classroom and I stood outside the door to make sure everybody had gotten off the playground.

[06:56:56] Speaker 17:

So you got through the door before all your kids did?

[06:57:00] Speaker 03:

Not all of them, but yes.

[06:57:03] Speaker 17:

But you didn't go in?

[06:57:04] Speaker 03:

No.

[06:57:05] Speaker 17:

And why is that?

[06:57:06] Speaker 03:

To make sure they were safe and inside.

[06:57:12] Speaker 17:

And did you make sure? Did you make sure they were all safe inside before you went inside? Yes. Okay. And so when you went inside, what did you do?

[06:57:28] Speaker 03:

I went to the corner of the teacher's classroom and at that point noticed I had only about two to three of my own students in there and so realized that they were kind of spread out into other classrooms. And then you just worry. I mean, I know that they were all in a classroom, but not knowing where or who they were with was concerning because they weren't with me.

[06:58:11] Speaker 18:

So what did you do?

[06:58:13] Speaker 03:

We sat there for a little bit and you could see we just kind of waited and Tried to keep the kids calm so we'd gone into a second grade classroom and a few of them were struggling to stay quiet.

[06:58:30] Speaker 17:

And what's the idea of staying quiet?

[06:58:36] Speaker 03:

Don't talk, don't move, be still.

[06:58:39] Speaker 17:

Is that part of the training that y'all had?

[06:58:41] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[06:58:43] Speaker 17:

You had training to stay quiet and under what situations?

[06:58:48] Speaker 03:

They just, a lockdown.

[06:58:51] Speaker 17:

A lockdown? Just, would you go through with us then what a lockdown is and what you do?

[06:58:55] Speaker 03:

So it's lock lights out of sight, you lock your doors, which should be, and then you turn the lights off and you're out of sight. You go somewhere in your classroom that is away from windows, doors hidden as best you can.

[06:59:13] Speaker 17:

And is that school-wide? Yes. So in the lockdown, if you go in any room, according to the lockdown procedures, the kids are going to be away from the door and away from the windows.

[06:59:25] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[06:59:25] Speaker 17:

In the dark?

[06:59:28] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[06:59:28] Speaker 17:

And quiet?

[06:59:29] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[06:59:30] Speaker 17:

And you had a little trouble with people being quiet?

[06:59:32] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[06:59:33] Speaker 17:

And so what did you do?

[06:59:34] Speaker 03:

An army crawled around the floor under these second graders' desks. I did breathing with them. You go trace your hand and you breathe in and out as you go up and down your fingers. So I did that to two students, help them calm as best they could.

[06:59:54] Speaker 17:

So you learned the breathing technique?

[06:59:56] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[06:59:57] Speaker 17:

To calm kids in stressful situations?

[07:00:00] Speaker 03:

It's just a normal, I guess, teaching special ed. You learn, I guess, little tricks to help with anxiety and things like that.

[07:00:10] Speaker 17:

Did it work?

[07:00:11] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[07:00:11] Speaker 17:

How quickly?

[07:00:14] Speaker 03:

I couldn't give you an exact time.

[07:00:17] Speaker 17:

Okay. Did you take any other action as you were waiting?

[07:00:21] Speaker 03:

Um, yes, at one point the teacher and I don't know her name. I feel so horrible, but I don't know her name. Um, she had brought me a pair of scissors and then there was another teacher in there. I don't know if I'm allowed to say her name. Um, she also, we kind of like got together and just kind of came up with a plan.

[07:00:42] Speaker 17:

What was the plan?

[07:00:44] Speaker 03:

Um, do what we had to do. Defend, keep quiet, wait until somebody came to get us.

[07:00:52] Speaker 17:

And what were the scissors for?

[07:00:54] Speaker 03:

I guess protection to fight if we needed to.

[07:01:02] Speaker 17:

Under that stressful situation?

[07:01:05] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[07:01:05] Speaker 17:

You developed a plan?

[07:01:07] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[07:01:08] Speaker 17:

To fight?

[07:01:09] Speaker 03:

To fight.

[07:01:10] Speaker 17:

To fight?

[07:01:11] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[07:01:12] Speaker 17:

And how about your kiddos?

[07:01:13] Speaker 03:

They were doing the best they could to stay calm and quiet. They were doing what they were supposed to be doing. Um, they had ended up getting safety scissors. Um, I guess because they saw us with our scissors. Um, they all got theirs. I didn't even notice until we got to the parking lot.

[07:01:36] Speaker 17:

The kids all had safety scissors. Millie mckinnon.

[07:01:40] Speaker 03:

I'm sorry?

[07:01:41] Speaker 17:

Mimicking the teachers.

[07:01:42] Speaker 03:

I assume so, yes.

[07:01:43] Speaker 17:

That is preparing to defend yourselves.

[07:01:44] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[07:01:49] Speaker 17:

How long were you in this position?

[07:01:52] Speaker 03:

I don't recall. It was all very, I don't know.

[07:02:00] Speaker 17:

What did you do while you were there?

[07:02:03] Speaker 03:

We were in the classroom.

[07:02:04] Speaker 17:

Yes, ma'am.

[07:02:05] Speaker 03:

Help the kids stay calm, was ready to go. At one point, we just made sure we followed the rules. At one point, the two other teachers we were with, or I was with, they couldn't remember if the door was locked or not, or they just weren't sure. And so I remember being on the opposite side of the classroom, and they were tying an extension cord up into the door. I don't know how to explain it, but there's like a triangular shape metal frame that helps it open and they were tying an extension cord around it to try and make sure it was I guess secured the best it could be if the door wasn't locked.

[07:02:54] Speaker 17:

Okay and that was the other two teachers?

[07:02:56] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[07:02:57] Speaker 17:

At some point you were relieved or you evacuated, is that correct? Tell us about that.

[07:03:04] Speaker 03:

We kept hearing knocking on the door and we were taught, don't answer the door, somebody will come in and get you. But after several knocking, like times knocking, and again I was on the opposite side of the room, one of the teachers, she peeked open the curtain to see who it was. And it was law enforcement. And so at that point, she opened the door, they came and said, we're going to move you guys to the parking lot. So once everybody's ready, we're all going to move quickly but safely to the parking lot and wait there.

[07:03:47] Speaker 17:

And did you do that?

[07:03:48] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[07:03:49] Speaker 17:

And how did your day end then?

[07:03:50] Speaker 03:

got to the parking lot and at that time I realized all the kids had scissors so like it's okay we're okay and I took all the scissors and had two big pockets both of my back pockets were full of scissors and we sat there for a little bit and then ended up going to an empty field off of campus and while we waited for buses I still at this point didn't have all my students. And so I gathered the ones that I did have and I told them, stay here. We're not getting on this bus and wait it.

[07:04:31] Speaker 17:

For what?

[07:04:33] Speaker 02:

For the rest of my kids.

[07:04:38] Speaker 17:

And did you get them? And then where did the bus go?

[07:04:43] Speaker 03:

Um, it was a little bit of confusion, I guess. Um, we went to the high school or we were supposed to go to the high school. Um, and then on the way there, they just, the bus driver was just kind of going in circles. And then, um, we were told that the high school was on lockdown, so we wouldn't be going there. And then we went to, we ended up going to the civic center, the civic center.

[07:05:09] Speaker 17:

Okay. And is that where the kids were reunited with their parents? Okay. Thank you. We've gone through your day and I want to just kind of go through so we have an idea of where all of this occurred.

[07:05:21] Speaker 18:

Okay.

[07:05:42] Speaker 17:

We have people on both sides, so it's real hard if we get in front of them to see what you're doing. So if you have to point at something, feel free to do that. I'll give you a second just to kind of familiarize yourself with Stacey's exhibit one. Do you recognize Stacey's exhibit one? And could you show us the perimeters then of Robb Elementary School?

[07:06:04] UNKNOWN:

Okay.

[07:06:08] Speaker 17:

And so when you went to recess, where did you start?

[07:06:11] Speaker 03:

I started here. Well, I was originally at the very beginning here in one of these classrooms, and then this is the library. So this is where I picked my kids up at.

[07:06:22] Speaker 13:

OK. Let me ask, is the fourth grade wing there?

[07:06:25] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[07:06:26] Speaker 13:

Would you point out the fourth grade wing?

[07:06:29] Speaker 38:

Thank you. And the library just holds it.

[07:06:30] Speaker 13:

The fourth grade wing, you point to it, it has three X's on it. Is that correct?

[07:06:33] Speaker 38:

Yeah.

[07:06:34] Speaker 13:

And then there's a building north of that, or is it still part of the fourth grade wing?

[07:06:38] Speaker 03:

It's connected. It's part of it. It's connected.

[07:06:40] Speaker 17:

OK. And then so y'all had been in the library? Yes. Is it still somewhat part of the fourth grade wing?

[07:06:46] Speaker 03:

It is in here. It's right here at the other entrance.

[07:06:50] Speaker 17:

And you have to speak up a little, because now you're facing it this way. So the library is where y'all had been?

[07:06:55] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[07:06:56] Speaker 13:

And then where did you go?

[07:06:58] Speaker 03:

We walked, my classroom was on this wing right here, so we stopped.

[07:07:03] Speaker 13:

Is that the second wing from the top?

[07:07:06] Speaker 03:

Yes, it's wing B. So here's the main office parts and then here's wing B. So we walked down this little sidewalk, went to the classroom, dropped stuff off, got our lunch boxes, and then followed the sidewalk all the way down. And it was about here that I heard the dumpster, what I thought was a dumpster. And then this is the playground. This is where we ended up at.

[07:07:33] Speaker 13:

At that playground?

[07:07:34] Speaker 03:

Yeah. And it's like this entire thing.

[07:07:36] Speaker 13:

And is there another building right there at the bottom of the photograph that you were talking about?

[07:07:41] Speaker 03:

Down here?

[07:07:41] Speaker 13:

Right here?

[07:07:42] Speaker 03:

That's the pavilion, the PE pavilion where they have the basketball court and where the kids... Pavilion or pagoda? Pavilion, I guess.

[07:07:51] UNKNOWN:

Okay.

[07:07:52] Speaker 13:

You call it a pavilion. And so where were the kids playing?

[07:07:56] Speaker 03:

They were scattered throughout this entire area. There was several different pieces of equipment. They had... I mean, there was just tons for them to do, so they were spread out all through here.

[07:08:11] Speaker 13:

all through and even behind the pavilion?

[07:08:15] Speaker 03:

Not this far. I would say they probably stop about here.

[07:08:19] Speaker 13:

To the right, if I'm facing it?

[07:08:21] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[07:08:22] Speaker 13:

OK, so could we go back then to where the Hillcrest Funeral Home is?

[07:08:28] Speaker 24:

Over here.

[07:08:29] Speaker 13:

Right here? Yes. So from this position, what would be the line of sight to the pavilion?

[07:08:36] Speaker 03:

From this?

[07:08:38] Speaker 13:

Yes.

[07:08:38] Speaker 03:

Right here? Correct.

[07:08:39] Speaker 13:

To that pavilion?

[07:08:41] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[07:08:41] Speaker 17:

And so could you see the children playing where y'all were playing?

[07:08:45] Speaker 03:

I'm sure if you were standing in the right spot, yes.

[07:08:48] Speaker 17:

And so is that likewise where the puffs of dirt came up?

[07:08:53] Speaker 38:

Possibly. Okay.

[07:08:55] Speaker 17:

So were there shots being fired toward the pavilion area?

[07:09:02] Speaker 03:

To my knowledge and experience, I thought so, yes.

[07:09:07] Speaker 17:

So some suggestion that there was no evidence of shots being fired toward the pavilion is contrary to what you saw that day.

[07:09:15] Speaker 03:

Is that correct? Sorry. Louder. Could you repeat your question?

[07:09:20] Speaker 17:

Sorry. So some suggestion that there was no evidence of shots being fired toward the pavilion area, that would be contrary to your experience of what you saw that day.

[07:09:32] Speaker 27:

Overall, you can answer if you understand the question.

[07:09:36] Speaker 03:

Yes. To my knowledge, There were shots fired over here and saw the dirt in. Okay.

[07:09:43] Speaker 13:

And where were they coming from?

[07:09:45] Speaker 03:

From this area right here. Like they would be coming and the dirt was flying up about this area.

[07:09:53] Speaker 17:

And where did you go when these things started happening?

[07:09:57] Speaker 03:

The second grade wing is right here closest to the playground. I ended up in the first classroom.

[07:10:03] Speaker 13:

And before you got in that classroom, did you see somebody?

[07:10:06] Speaker 03:

that's on the way to the classroom. I saw a person in all black and a long weapon.

[07:10:15] Speaker 13:

And do you remember where he was?

[07:10:17] Speaker 03:

Yes, he was over here, closer to the, he was around this area.

[07:10:22] Speaker 13:

And are you marking there to the spot, southwest corner of the building and the parking area?

[07:10:27] Speaker 03:

Yes, and to me, I guess in the moment, it looked like he was at this, there's an entrance, a door right there. thought he was more on the sidewalk. Close to the sidewalk?

[07:10:39] Speaker 17:

Close to the sidewalk.

[07:10:41] Speaker 03:

Okay.

[07:10:42] Speaker 17:

How much time did you spend to look at him? Just a glance. Okay. Thank you.

[07:11:05] Speaker 31:

My name is Jason Gause. I represent Adrian and I guess I want to say first I know that I know that testifying and thinking about this stuff is hard. I can tell. I can see it. I think we all can see it. And nobody blames you for that because you went through a lot. I mean, probably all out there went through a lot that day. Okay, so I say that to say I'm not asking these questions to make you relive that, to hurt you anymore. But do you understand it's important I need to go through some of these things? Because we are in this case and they have made allegations against my client so we need to talk about that, okay?

[07:11:59] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[07:12:01] Speaker 31:

Okay. So they kind of, Ms. Turner walked you through what was going on that day. I think one of the things you said was that you were you had your kids in the library, and just so that I know and I felt like, just so that I can understand exactly what, you would take them to the library, drop them off, then where would you go?

[07:12:27] Speaker 03:

Typically we would have, we would all meet as a grade level team, but since it was a fun day, I guess, award day, we didn't have to meet. So that day I went into the math interventionist room. I want to say it was like room 132. And we spent time looking through her manipulatives, because she was going to retire, and I was going to take some from her.

[07:12:52] Speaker 31:

Right. And I think you said that in your statement. You said manipulative.

[07:12:58] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[07:12:59] Speaker 31:

So we had it transcribed. And I thought the transcription was wrong, because I said the word can't be manipulative.

[07:13:07] Speaker 03:

Yes. Some students could manipulate and move to understand.

[07:13:11] Speaker 31:

OK, so that's kind of what I want to understand. So a manipulative is like an object or something that they're using and it teaches them a lesson about, I guess whatever your lesson is. Yes. Okay. And you said you were having to go over manipulatives with a person who was retiring.

[07:13:30] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[07:13:31] Speaker 31:

Was that for your benefit or for hers?

[07:13:34] Speaker 03:

Both, I guess.

[07:13:35] Speaker 31:

Do you see what I mean? Was she teaching you?

[07:13:37] Speaker 03:

Oh, no, no. I was just going through what she had so I could take like use it in my classroom. So she was no longer going to be using it as she was retiring so I was getting that from her.

[07:13:48] Speaker 31:

Got it. So she's basically saying look I have these things I think your students could use and you were saying yes and let me see them and this looks interesting. Okay. Yes. That does clear up a part of the interview. So the I guess at the point where At the point where you go to the library, so you were going over that and decided, you know, we don't have our meeting, our staff meeting, or whatever, our team meeting, might as well go get the kids and give them extra time out on the playground.

[07:14:20] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[07:14:20] Speaker 31:

That sound right?

[07:14:21] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[07:14:22] Speaker 31:

Were all of your kids in the library at the time?

[07:14:24] Speaker 03:

The ones who had stayed, yes.

[07:14:26] Speaker 31:

And what does that mean?

[07:14:28] Speaker 03:

So after the award, some of the students had left to go home.

[07:14:31] Speaker 31:

OK. And was that like a normal thing?

[07:14:36] Speaker 03:

Typically, after awards, yes.

[07:14:38] Speaker 31:

Okay, so I mean, I guess what I mean by that is did the school say, look, because we're talking about May 24th real quick. May 24th, can you give us an idea that year, if you remember, can you give us an idea like how close to the end of the school year May 24th was?

[07:14:52] Speaker 03:

Maybe a week or two. Okay. Not May, I don't know.

[07:14:56] Speaker 31:

And I'm sure you're in grade school, so nobody's doing like finals or anything. But have you, have you as the teachers, or at least you, have you guys already basically submitted all the grades that they were going to have, or were there still more grades that had to be submitted?

[07:15:10] Speaker 03:

There were still more grades. I believe we had to do them for four weeks. So.

[07:15:17] Speaker 31:

And the, do you know a park that's commonly known in Uvalde is Mexican Park?

[07:15:23] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[07:15:25] Speaker 31:

OK. Can you just describe what that is?

[07:15:26] Speaker 38:

I've never been there.

[07:15:27] Speaker 31:

Oh, but you've heard people talk about it? Yes. And they call it Mexican Park because I think it's named after somebody famous in Mexico.

[07:15:35] Speaker 38:

I guess.

[07:15:36] Speaker 31:

But that's what it's called there, right? Yes. The high schoolers, they have awards today, too. Or did you know?

[07:15:43] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[07:15:44] Speaker 31:

OK, they have awards today. Do you know if it was pretty common throughout Uvalde, the Uvalde ISD, awards day if you want to go home you know parents want to take you out do something fun or you want to go to you know you want to go shopping at the mall or whatever with your parents or whatever those things that that would be a normal thing they can take them out of school or they can take them home and they wouldn't be in class.

[07:16:09] Speaker 03:

Are you asking for like every child would do that or?

[07:16:12] Speaker 31:

No I guess do you know if it was like because you're in an elementary school and U Valley has a middle school

[07:16:17] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[07:16:18] Speaker 31:

And U-Valley has a high school.

[07:16:19] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[07:16:19] Speaker 31:

And I don't know really your, I'm really just trying to ask. I don't know your experience with the middle school and the high school levels, but it sounds like that they were having kind of awards and things going on at Celebration on the same day from the high school level to the elementary school level. But you wouldn't know.

[07:16:34] Speaker 03:

No, I was not aware of that.

[07:16:35] Speaker 31:

Okay. But you do know that in elementary school, not that every kid would go home, but if kids wanted to go home, they would go home.

[07:16:45] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[07:16:46] Speaker 31:

And in fact, your kids that you talked about, the ones that you had that day, those were the ones that didn't go home with their parents.

[07:16:55] Speaker 02:

Correct.

[07:16:57] Speaker 31:

How big is, when we say your kids, we're talking about your class that you're responsible.

[07:17:01] Speaker 03:

Yes.

[07:17:01] Speaker 31:

How big is it normally?

[07:17:02] Speaker 03:

About 22.

[07:17:03] Speaker 31:

About 22. And how many do you think or remember that you had that day?

[07:17:07] Speaker 03:

I believe it was 12.

[07:17:07] Speaker 31:

12. So probably, I mean, close to half of them had chosen to go home with their parents, or their parents chose for them to take them home.

[07:17:17] Speaker 38:

A little less, yes.

[07:17:19] Speaker 31:

A little less, right. So 10 out of the 22 had gone home.

[07:17:23] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[07:17:31] Speaker 31:

Have you been a teacher anywhere else? Oh, you said Cal?

[07:17:33] Speaker 03:

Cal Allen.

[07:17:35] Speaker 31:

Cal Allen. When you were at Cal Allen, was there something kind of a similar practice?

[07:17:40] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[07:17:41] Speaker 31:

Is it pretty common that, you know, when you have the fun day or whatever, kids go home and then some kids who stay watch movies, right, in the classroom and just generally maybe get more time at recess, a lot of different things like that on a day like that.

[07:17:58] Speaker 02:

I guess, yes.

[07:18:00] Speaker 31:

Right. And I'll tell you this, it'll seem like I'm asking you questions and you don't know why I'm asking them because what the relevance is to you. But I'm not asking them, I guess I'm not trying to ask them to bother you. Do you understand? But, and I really just want to know, because I don't know. You know, you're the teacher, you're the first teacher that we've heard from here. And I want to know from you what that policy, or kind of what that practice was on that day. You understand? Yes. As far as that goes. After this happened, and you went through it in detail, let's go toward the point where you've got the kids that were remaining, and you've taken them to the playground. And you did that, and I'm gonna go through this map with you. But you said you took them to the playground that's sort of on the south side.

[07:19:00] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[07:19:02] Speaker 31:

Okay. And you said, as you were on the way, you found or you heard something that sounded like, Like a dumpster picking up the trash.

[07:19:14] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[07:19:17] Speaker 31:

The. You remember talking to. Ranger Benson.

[07:19:33] Speaker 03:

I wouldn't remember his name, no.

[07:19:35] Speaker 31:

Do you remember speaking to a Ranger? Yes, on May 28th of 2022.

[07:19:40] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[07:19:41] Speaker 31:

And that would have been the interview that you did where you sat down with a member of law enforcement and they asked you about the things that happened.

[07:19:51] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[07:19:52] Speaker 31:

Um, in May 28 2022, how long after this had happened? What's that?

[07:19:58] Speaker 02:

I'm sorry.

[07:19:59] Speaker 31:

How long after this? What we're talking about here? How long after you were on the playground with the kids was May 28 2022?

[07:20:06] Speaker 02:

Four days, four days.

[07:20:08] Speaker 31:

So you would agree that that your memory of what happened was fresh at the time that you talked to the law enforcement investigators?

[07:20:17] Speaker 03:

Not necessarily. I mean, could you repeat the question? I'm sorry.

[07:20:23] Speaker 31:

Sure, sure, sure. I guess what I'm really just trying to point out is that, as is common with all human beings, in the immediacy or in the immediate days after something happens, our memory about what happened is fresher or it's better than years later.

[07:20:40] Speaker 37:

Years later? Years later. Yes, years later.

[07:20:43] Speaker 31:

Sure. And so I kind of want to ask a few questions. And after this, and you know, and I'm not saying anything one way or another, I just I kind of want to know what what you've been able to see or learn or read or hear since that time. Okay. Now, I would assume as somebody who is so closely involved and so closely affected by what happened, that you have looked at and examined the reports that have come out about what happened?

[07:21:15] Speaker 03:

No, I have not.

[07:21:15] Speaker 31:

Okay. You've never read one? No. You've never seen anything on TV?

[07:21:19] Speaker 03:

I've seen, yes, but I have not in detail read. I don't care to, sorry, see that.

[07:21:27] Speaker 31:

I understand. And I think some people would want to know, and then some people may not, and it's fine both ways. So as far as the Texas House report, you haven't read any part of it? No. Or their conclusion? No. The Department of Justice report? No. The Department Homeland Security report? No. The City of Uvalde report? No. Have you talked to other teachers since about what happened?

[07:21:51] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[07:21:51] Speaker 31:

Is there any kind of support group that you have with the other teachers or other people who were there where you guys have talked about it together?

[07:21:58] Speaker 03:

We did group counseling, but it was maybe five teachers four times within like three months.

[07:22:07] Speaker 31:

And of course, of course, like I said, I'm not asking these questions because there's anything wrong with that. I'm glad. I'm glad that whatever communications that you've needed to do, you've been able to do. But I want to go back to the internet. Because in the interview, do you remember talking in the interview and you remember the Ranger asking you what happened, what you witnessed and what you saw?

[07:22:38] Speaker 03:

I mean, it was a while ago, so I don't really remember the interview. I just remember where it was at.

[07:22:47] Speaker 31:

Okay, and I guess what I mean is, did you understand that the purpose of him interviewing you is to ask you what happened on that day and what you went?

[07:22:55] Speaker 03:

Yes, I guess. I didn't know if it was, I thought it was mandatory we had to do it.

[07:23:01] Speaker 31:

Sure. Sure. I guess what I mean is, is that obviously when something like this happens and you're in the room with a ranger, a law enforcement officer, the reason you're there is to tell the ranger what you witnessed.

[07:23:20] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[07:23:21] UNKNOWN:

Okay.

[07:23:22] Speaker 31:

because you know in that interview you did talk about you heard a sound like a dump truck right you described it as a dump truck at the time yes you know you described it here as like a garbage truck yes and trust me to me there's no difference I think that that's it's the same and what's your What you're describing, I don't know, everybody's probably heard it and I just wanted to clarify. What you're describing as part of the sound is like whenever it kind of takes up and dumps and like slams it back down and boom, boom. Like.

[07:23:59] Speaker 38:

Yes. That kind of sound.

[07:24:01] Speaker 31:

And was that a common sound for you to hear on the playground? I know you said it was weird for the time. But is that a common sound for you to hear on the playground at Uvalde or at Robb Elementary School?

[07:24:13] Speaker 03:

At least once or twice a week, yes.

[07:24:15] Speaker 31:

Okay, so do you know what dumpster would have been being emptied or you just remember hearing that sound?

[07:24:23] Speaker 03:

I just remember hearing the sound.

[07:24:25] Speaker 31:

And so before you came here to testify today, because you said it's been years since you gave that interview. Yes. Did you sit down with any member of the prosecution and discuss what you had testified about?

[07:24:41] Speaker 03:

When, I guess, could you clarify the time frame?

[07:24:45] Speaker 31:

Sure. I guess at any time after this event occurred, but before you came here to testify today?

[07:24:50] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[07:24:51] Speaker 31:

Okay. Which is there's nothing wrong with that. Okay. But what I'm trying to do, yeah, it's fine. Um, but what I'm trying to do now is figure out at any time when that happened during this interview, did they play for you this interview so that you could hear what you had told Ranger Benson before?

[07:25:07] Speaker 03:

No. Okay.

[07:25:08] Speaker 31:

So you've never heard any of this?

[07:25:10] Speaker 03:

No.

[07:25:10] Speaker 31:

I have some questions. Well, you were there and present when you did the interview, but nobody's ever played it back.

[07:25:16] Speaker 03:

No.

[07:25:18] Speaker 31:

Because during that interview, you described going into the classroom and that you described the scissors as you described for us today. But during that interview, Four days after this happened, you never told Ranger Benson that you had seen anybody matching the description of wearing all black and long hair.

[07:25:46] Speaker 03:

OK. I mean, I don't know. I don't remember.

[07:25:49] Speaker 31:

OK. Let's talk about that fact, though. That would be a fact when you're talking to the Ranger that you would think would be definitely relevant and important.

[07:26:06] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[07:26:07] Speaker 31:

Sure. And I'm not trying to get on you, but that's why I said the reason I have to ask these questions is, is because I think and I think the prosecution will agree with me. The things you're testifying to here today are not the things that you said to the Ranger at the time. Did you know that? I'm sorry? Did you know that?

[07:26:23] Speaker 03:

No, I don't remember what.

[07:26:25] Speaker 31:

Okay. Do you remember telling the Ranger that the only way you found out there was an active shooter was your husband called you while you were in that classroom?

[07:26:31] Speaker 03:

He did not call me.

[07:26:33] Speaker 31:

Did he?

[07:26:33] Speaker 03:

Text you? We were texting, yes, and he didn't tell me that there was an active shooter. He just told me to stay inside and be safe.

[07:26:41] Speaker 31:

Okay, so if you had told the Ranger at the time that your husband was the one that told you there was an active shooter, um, could your memory have just be different now?

[07:26:55] Speaker 03:

I guess maybe.

[07:26:59] Speaker 31:

Did you know? I guess or do you remember When you talk to the ranger, you never told the ranger that you saw clouds of dust coming up from the school yard.

[07:27:13] Speaker 03:

I believe that I did, because I remember telling my family what had happened that day.

[07:27:21] Speaker 31:

And do not get me wrong, anybody who goes through a traumatic event remembers differently at different times. I understand that. You would agree, though, that that would be a significant fact, just as if it just also as seeing somebody with a gun.

[07:27:43] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[07:27:43] Speaker 31:

Wearing all black and long hair on the south side of the building.

[07:27:46] Speaker 38:

Yes.

[07:27:48] Speaker 31:

And I think what I'd like to do is I'd like to ask you to review your statement about what you said to the Ranger. Because it seems to me like the stuff that you do not remember saying to him, that if you were able to review your statement, that would refresh your memory. Do you agree with that?

[07:28:21] Speaker 03:

Possibly.

[07:28:22] Speaker 31:

About what you said to him. If you watched what you said to him, it would refresh your memory about what you said to him.

[07:28:28] Speaker 03:

Well, yes. Obviously.

[07:28:29] Speaker 31:

Sure. I'd like to do that.

[07:28:33] Speaker 17:

I understand.

[07:28:36] Speaker 31:

I understand. I'd like to have an opportunity to have her review her statement so that I can. I could do a cross examination that that how long? It's it, I mean. Maybe 10 minutes.

[07:28:51] Speaker 27:

15 minutes. Alright, ladies and gentlemen, if you want to take a 10 minute break, we'll bring you back out shortly. So whatever you want to ask for the jury. They're saying 10 minutes, but whenever it's over with, we'll bring you back out. Okay, you can be seated in the courtroom.

[07:29:34] Speaker 30:

You all have it.

[07:29:59] Speaker 20:

Thank you.

[07:31:02] UNKNOWN:

All right, so I think that's just a moment to go. the playground. And I'm doing these open call meetings. And as we were walking through there, I heard something like a doctor trying to get me out of the trash. And so I think they're very, very excited to get me out of the trash. And it's a playground. And I just got to go put in for one of my students. fire works.

[07:32:24] Speaker 20:

There was a coach leading to the sound watch. I saw him turn around as well.

[07:32:51] UNKNOWN:

You're going to be part of the archives.

[07:34:05] Speaker 20:

time didn't take it seriously. I mean, they did, but they didn't because we had something they allowed us to do that. They thought we were going to go there and just another bailout. I didn't receive the alert from the Raptor system until I was in the classroom in security. So if I would have waited until the Raptor system alert, we would have been outside. So we're in the classroom, and I write to the next message saying that my husband received a phone call from my friend, and he doesn't recognize it. So he said, don't go outside until you see what's happening.

[07:34:59] UNKNOWN:

He didn't want to tell me what. And so he said, there's a package here. Don't go outside.

[07:35:20] Speaker 20:

I just want to make sure that the teachers, the teachers who are going to be choosing At one point, the teacher was writing Last out. And how do we pass together this?

[07:37:37] UNKNOWN:

And also how do we pass through this? I don't know if I have a class or a calendar to share with you. Is there a lot of us who might take this? OK. Can you recall approximately what times we have to go since then? I know it's how much probably.

[07:39:23] Speaker 21:

But what is the policy regarding on-school reporting? Lock doors.

[07:39:28] UNKNOWN:

Okay, and that's for every billionaire. Okay, and do each of you have keys individually to access in and out of the... Okay, so you... Do you know if someone has a And so is there any protocol?

[07:40:39] Speaker 21:

that never had an issue with the box or that nature.

[07:41:02] UNKNOWN:

Those doors weren't locked when they came in, too. I know that there's an east room. I'm sorry, I don't know what you're trying to do, but there's an east room in the front of the building that does not lock. Yeah. Because there were teachers that were actually handling that, and it doesn't lock. That would have been wild, but it doesn't, too.

[07:41:09] Speaker 20:

It's 134 now. that offers community programming.

[07:42:07] UNKNOWN:

I think, maybe, I think I've seen it in there sometimes. I know my students go, and you do 132 for students. Okay. And this 132, did you want 132? I had it in my classes. Okay. But, I think they all, but it's in the one where you have that one. Yeah, right, so.

[07:42:20] Speaker 21:

know if it's common practice at all by teachers or students that drop doors over in that nature. So you have an issue with it. Do y'all keep me in touch with certain type of records that are kept on? Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you think?

[07:44:48] Speaker 20:

Oh, I stood out and I did not go into the actual classroom until every student was inside the classroom.

[07:46:01] Speaker 21:

Is there a reason why they have it structured that way?

[07:46:19] UNKNOWN:

I don't know just how it is.

[07:47:07] Speaker 30:

Okay, we're ready to bring them in.

[07:47:14] Speaker 31:

Okay. You would agree with me and listening to the totality of your interview four days after that you never tell the Rangers that you saw anybody that was dressed in black with long hair and a fire and a gun.

[07:47:27] Speaker 02:

Correct.

[07:47:28] Speaker 31:

You agree that you never told him that you saw dirt flying up on the playground. that was to you, I guess, putting two and two together, you felt like you were being shot at, which was your opinion?

[07:47:42] Speaker 02:

Correct.

[07:47:43] Speaker 31:

You never told the Ranger any of this?

[07:47:45] Speaker 02:

Listening to that, no.

[07:47:46] Speaker 31:

Right. And that was four days after it happened? Correct. And you would agree he gave you every opportunity to say everything that you remembered about what happened?

[07:47:53] Speaker 02:

Yes.

[07:47:54] Speaker 31:

And seeing the shooter and seeing somebody with a gun on your school would have been something that you would have told him at the time.

[07:48:02] Speaker 03:

I would think so, yes.

[07:48:03] Speaker 31:

In the dirt and you connecting that to their bullets being fired in your direction? Yes. Okay. So the question I have is, When you talk to the prosecutor on those incidents, did you tell them those details about seeing the person in black with long black hair or with long hair and a firearm? And did you tell them about seeing dirt being kicked up at the playground?

[07:48:23] Speaker 38:

I believe so, yes.

[07:48:25] Speaker 31:

All right, Your Honor. And so based on that, we have never gotten any notice from the prosecution. And that is clearly, clearly, clearly an inconsistent statement with the statement that she gave. The prosecution has never provided us. This is clear under Brady. It's clear under Michael Morton that if this is the first time that I'm hearing of this in a trial of this magnitude is when she testified on the stand about it. And so if she did report these things to the prosecution, we were entitled to that to prepare for this. And this is a trial by ambush.

[07:48:57] Speaker 17:

Good response. We're checking to see if it is indeed part of the test.

[07:49:19] Speaker 22:

Thank you.

[07:49:47] Speaker 35:

Yes. It's provided in the transcript that we provided to them on what's 134.

[07:50:31] Speaker 36:

Here's the part that talks about the extension court.

[07:50:35] Speaker 31:

I agree that she said that before. I do not see in the grand jury, the grand jury transcript there was talk about Dirk flying up around the kids. I do not see where she described seeing a shooter, seeing a person with a gun matching the description of the shooter. And apparently she told the prosecution that before trial. I mean, Judge, that's incredibly important detail that I'm finding out about now. In front of the jury.

[07:51:06] Speaker 17:

And how's that party or exculpatory, Your Honor?

[07:51:11] Speaker 31:

Well, it's insanely different. What I want to say is it is 180 degrees different than her prior testimony to the grand jury and her prior statement to the ranger. And it is of a matter of such importance. Because it is placed, the gunman on the south side, it's the same place where my client was. where he responded to and where he went to. And so if this witness has told, and I understand witnesses testify, they remember things differently, but when the prosecution hears something that the witnesses remembered differently than anything that we have, it's their obligation to provide that to us. Because that would be what could be used for impeachment.

[07:51:54] Speaker 17:

But we provided with the grand jury testimony that added up the dirt, whether or not it was a man in black that already stipulated that there's a man in black that was there.

[07:52:03] Speaker 31:

I agree, but not at that location at that time. And this is a man dressed all in black, not just all in black, with long hair and a firearm and a gun.

[07:52:13] Speaker 14:

like there was more than one man in black in the gun. But that's the prosecution.

[07:52:19] Speaker 31:

I'm sure is not trying to intentionally miss the point, which I'm sure that the court understands my point, which is it's not about who who did the shooting. Of course, we all agree with that. But at what time, when and where and how and what teachers had identified a shooter or had seen a shooter on campus.

[07:52:37] Speaker 27:

Well, the location is pretty important, Mr Turner. Do we have anything that that you show in your notes, you turn that over to them?

[07:52:46] Speaker 17:

About the black, the man in black?

[07:52:49] Speaker 27:

Specifically the location at that particular time?

[07:52:55] Speaker 31:

Well, I guess the idea is the witness has testified that she told the state, I just, I mean, does the state acknowledge to the court that they were told that? I said, I believe so, sorry.

[07:53:06] Speaker 36:

Yeah, I mean. You know, the thing about it is that this woman was initially interviewed, you know, in a very traumatic event. So there's got to be things that she remembers, you know, for as time goes on.

[07:53:21] Speaker 35:

But I agree with Mr. Turner. That's not exculpatory. You know, we all do. I mean, saying to them, hey, there's a shooter all black with a long rifle is not information that they didn't already have throughout this case.

[07:53:35] Speaker 17:

In opening statement, they said that Melody Flores said to the man that was an all black, but she got the gun wrong.

[07:53:40] Speaker 27:

I think his complaint is more to the location of the man in black in relationship to where his client was.

[07:53:50] Speaker 17:

I don't think she said anything about where his client was, first of all. Second of all, I think the testimony will be that Melody Foley saw him in the same spot that this woman just said it was. There's no new testimony there. There's no new evidence. There's nothing different than what they already know.

[07:54:06] Speaker 35:

She never told us that specific location that she saw him about that south end of the door. She never told us that.

[07:54:15] Speaker 27:

OK, so what are you asking for?

[07:54:22] Speaker 30:

Well.

[07:54:31] Speaker 31:

Can I have a moment? Yeah, just need a little bit to talk to them.

[07:55:49] Speaker 27:

finish the record. So go ahead. Before they asked for the remedy, we'll go and ask you a question.

[07:55:54] Speaker 17:

As far as the conversation you had with the prosecutors and the man in black, did you discuss? Do you have a firm member that you discussed where he was? Or did you simply discuss him and you saw the man in black?

[07:56:09] Speaker 02:

I don't remember. Are you talking like during the grand jury? During the grand jury, or when?

[07:56:15] Speaker 17:

No, when you talk to the prosecutors in preparation for trial.

[07:56:19] Speaker 03:

I don't remember now.

[07:56:21] Speaker 17:

You don't remember?

[07:56:22] Speaker 03:

If I discuss a location, no.

[07:56:30] Speaker 17:

And I'd also like to ask this, Ms. Mitchell, do you have any notes if we're discussing where?

[07:56:36] Speaker 27:

I guess we're going to take this, and I'll tell the ma'am, let's do this. I don't want you going back up to the fourth floor. Could you go with one of our bailiffs and just step out in the hall momentarily, and we'll bring you right back in. Don't talk to anybody about the case if you do me that favor. All right, Ms. Mitchell, will you raise your right hand? Are you selling this for the evidence in the testimony given the cause to be the true self-pigot?

[07:57:10] UNKNOWN:

Yes.

[07:57:11] Speaker 27:

Mr. Turner, we can just do it from council table if nobody objects. Go ahead. Thank you.

[07:57:17] Speaker 17:

Were you there and conducting an interview with Stephanie Heff?

[07:57:19] Speaker 34:

Yes, the trial preparation.

[07:57:21] Speaker 17:

And did you take notes as a part of that?

[07:57:24] Speaker 34:

Yes.

[07:57:25] Speaker 17:

Do you have any notes as to Ms. Hale telling the prosecution where the man in black was?

[07:57:31] Speaker 35:

No, she told us there was a man in black. She looked, she saw a man in black with a long rifle. But she didn't tell us that he was specifically at that location at the south end on the sidewalk. She did today.

[07:57:43] Speaker 17:

Thank you. And I also call Mr. Garza, your honor. Oh, I'm sorry.

[07:57:48] Speaker 27:

Pass the witness. Yeah. But clarify for me, what was in the grand jury testimony that you did disclose?

[07:57:57] Speaker 36:

That there was dirt flying out.

[07:57:59] Speaker 27:

OK. All right.

[07:58:00] Speaker 36:

Yeah.

[07:58:02] Speaker 31:

Question. Ms. Mitchell. the the notes that you're referring to. What on what date was that interview done?

[07:58:16] Speaker 36:

I have to go back to my calendar. It was sometime in mid December.

[07:58:22] Speaker 31:

Oh, sorry before Christmas of 2025.

[07:58:26] Speaker 35:

Yes.

[07:58:30] Speaker 31:

Were you the only prosecutor president that interview?

[07:58:33] Speaker 36:

No, it was me, Mr. Garza and Mr. Turner.

[07:58:43] Speaker 31:

And you were conducting the interview?

[07:58:48] Speaker 36:

No, Mr. Turner was.

[07:58:51] Speaker 31:

And in that interview, in that interview, the witness that we're referring to told you she saw a man dressed in black with long hair and a long rifle. Right. All right. And you noted that she had never said that before at the time that she said that.

[07:59:15] Speaker 36:

I didn't note that.

[07:59:19] Speaker 35:

We're prepping her, so I can't say that I specifically noted that.

[07:59:23] Speaker 31:

But I mean, in just the preparation, you would have noted that a fact like that, that an additional person seeing the shooter at the time before the shooter entered the building outside, you would have noted that as a significant fact. You would agree with that?

[07:59:44] Speaker 35:

I would say that he was seen by several people. So one other witness saying they saw him, such as Ms. Forrest or, you know, he was part of that hunt.

[07:59:59] Speaker 31:

All right, but I guess what I'm saying is that whether or not he was seen, you understand and know that not only is location important, but time is important. Where the shooter is at a certain time, You note that that is an important detail.

[08:00:16] Speaker 35:

That is an important detail, but I wouldn't say that I was, at the time, had dissected the time frame of her to the point that it was so significant that it stood out to me.

[08:00:27] Speaker 31:

Well, and I guess that you'd also understand that different witnesses at different points in time viewing a shooter in different locations, all of those things are important details as to know not just where the person was, but when in time the person was. And different witnesses will provide different types, right? You understand that as a concept? Right, I understand that. And I'm not talking down to you. I'm just trying to make sure that I know you understand it. I just want to make sure that it's clear on the record. And so because this focus on whether or not she talked about the location, if that's the first time that she ever said location, and it just happened to be the location in trial that was that is where our client was. And now she's put the shooter on the south side of the building on the sidewalk looking like he's going into the building on the south side in trial today. Are you saying she never said that to you before? In your notes.

[08:01:41] Speaker 35:

Okay, we're asking me two different questions, like seeing him there versus seeing him specifically on the sidewalk. The term the sidewalk today caught me off guard because I had never heard that before.

[08:02:20] Speaker 31:

Had you ever heard her say that she had seen him either going into the south side of the building or approaching the south door? No. Did she ever tell you that he was on the south side of the building? No. So nothing in your notes? No. Okay, so here's my question. At a time when you're talking to a witness and for the first time they're telling you that they saw the shooter, neither prosecutor or anyone in the room thought to ask, where did you see the shooter? That wasn't a question that came up with anybody's mind to ask her where the shooter was?

[08:02:59] Speaker 35:

You know, you're getting very nitpicky. Let me tell you something. When we were properties witnesses, I was running a law office. And so I was in and out of interviews. So I can't say that she said that. And I'm like, oh my god. It wasn't that type of reaction for me. So that's the best I can say.

[08:03:22] Speaker 31:

I guess I know. But as a person present in the interview, I mean this is who.

[08:03:27] Speaker 35:

I can say today when she said that he was on the south end, I was surprised.

[08:03:31] Speaker 31:

That's what I can say. And we were too. Or that she saw him at all. But the, you were not surprised though when she testified that she had seen him.

[08:03:44] Speaker 35:

Yeah, because she said that she had seen him. She said that during trial practice. But she had seen his other. Guy with long hair with a gun.

[08:03:51] Speaker 31:

And so you understand with all the information that you provided us and that your office provided us in discovery, you understand how we would be surprised that she testified that she saw him.

[08:04:05] Speaker 35:

No, because I would assume that y'all knew that given everything, given all the information that's been provided to y'all, that y'all would know that. The testimony, the evidence is that he's on that south end of that building shooting into room 102, right? And so he's at 102, that's the farthest room on that end, on that south end. that somebody's going to see him, because there's casings from that room.

[08:04:31] Speaker 31:

But somebody is going to see him versus a person in a particular place at a particular time saw him has a lot of relative, it's a whole different thing. We would agree with that. That's why I was asking that question. Place and time are both important considerations when we're talking about Adrian Gonzalez's conduct. What he saw, what he could see, what he could know, what others knew. Those are all important considerations.

[08:04:56] Speaker 35:

But we already have other witnesses that say that he was, that the shooter was seen at the south end of the building.

[08:05:04] Speaker 31:

Right, and you- We have other witnesses.

[08:05:05] Speaker 35:

Okay, and so- So I didn't think that that would be surprised to you all.

[08:05:09] Speaker 31:

Well, let me ask you this. So you say you have other witnesses that will say that. And now you have provided, you would agree you have provided a witness that will corroborate those other witnesses, right? And make those other witnesses seem more credible instead of their testimony standing alone. Right? Okay. And so that would be an important thing for us to know before we started this trial. And to know when you knew it. You would agree with him.

[08:05:39] Speaker 35:

I would agree that you should, that that was already known, that that was out there. I don't understand why it's a surprise to you.

[08:05:46] Speaker 31:

Because you didn't report it when she told you that. That's why, because you didn't turn it over when she told you that, and it was something she had never said before. And I think you will agree with me that it's not been turned over by your office in any shape or form before.

[08:05:58] Speaker 35:

Well, I would agree with you that I asked you to come to my office and review our file. That was on the record. I said, I want you to come look through our complete file to make sure that you have everything. And that was agreed to, but then I was never contacted. So I did make our file available. on the record before trial.

[08:06:15] Speaker 31:

And you understand the prosecutor's obligation is not on the defense. The prosecutor's obligation belongs solely to the prosecutor.

[08:06:21] Speaker 35:

I understand that, but I wanted to make sure that this is tons of evidence. I wanted to make sure you all had everything, you know, made our discovery portal available, gave you all a server. I wanted to make sure you all had everything. So I did make that available.

[08:06:35] Speaker 30:

I'll pass the witness.

[08:06:36] Speaker 17:

I had a couple of follow-up questions on time, if I may. Ms. Mitchell, to start with, there are casings not only in front of 102, but also south of that. Is that correct? Yes. And those casings are not attributable to anybody other than the shooter. Is that correct? That's right. And those pictures and statements have been given us to that. Is that correct? And as far as timing, The only timing this witness has said is when she heard firecrackers, she headed to her building and saw the defendant. I mean, is that correct? Did she say anything about Adrienne Gonzalez being there or not being there? No. Did she testify in anything about Adrienne Gonzalez being there or not being there? No. So the timing is simply that as she hears what she believes to be firecrackers and where there are casings, she sees the man in black. Is that correct? Right. And so how does that timing in any way impact Adrian Gonzalez?

[08:07:53] Speaker 31:

I mean, it's speculation in that sense, because she can't know our defensive strategy or what we're doing. But it's pretty clear, Judge, it's pretty clear that we have these things down to the second. Prosecution presented the things in a big blurb. We have it to the second, and the second matters, and every second matters. Timing is important to the defense strategy. I'll just represent to the court. I don't need Ms. Mitchell to testify about how important it is to my strategy.

[08:08:17] Speaker 17:

We have the timing of when every shot was fired including the shots at the south end, Your Honor. We do have examples.

[08:08:22] Speaker 27:

Well, let's finish up the evidence that you wanted. Did you have any other questions with Ms. Mitchell? Any other questions?

[08:08:28] Speaker 18:

No, Your Honor.

[08:08:29] Speaker 31:

Okay, did you have any other follow-up cross with Ms. Mitchell on? I'd ask you to examine her records in camera or her notes in camera to find out if that's the case.

[08:08:37] Speaker 27:

Did you want to call Garza or not? Yes. Okay, let's finish the evidence. All right. You saw me swear the evidence in the testimony given the cause will be the truth. So up you go. I did. Yeah, let's let's do it from the witness stand. You're a little far away.

[08:09:00] Speaker 17:

Okay, thank you, sir.

[08:09:03] Speaker 10:

Go ahead. My name is Ricardo Garza Jr.

[08:09:07] Speaker 17:

What do you do for a living?

[08:09:08] Speaker 10:

I'm an investigator for the DA's office in Nevada County.

[08:09:11] Speaker 17:

Were you present when Stephanie Hale was interviewed? Yes. And do you recall her saying anything about where the shooter was?

[08:09:21] Speaker 09:

No.

[08:09:26] Speaker 17:

Do you recall her saying that the shooter was in black?

[08:09:29] Speaker 10:

Yes.

[08:09:37] Speaker 17:

And did she say anything about the white car or Adrian Gonzalez during that period of time? No. Did she ever give any testimony about seeing Adrian Gonzalez or where he was in proximity to the shooter?

[08:09:49] Speaker 09:

No.

[08:09:51] Speaker 17:

And did she give any indication of timing?

[08:09:54] Speaker 09:

No.

[08:09:55] Speaker 17:

Was she looking at a phone, a cell phone, as to timing? No. Whether in minutes or seconds? No. So she could give us no clue as to what time she saw the person in black?

[08:10:07] Speaker 09:

Correct.

[08:10:14] Speaker 31:

That's the way it is. Investigators, so I guess first and foremost, you would be willing to get on the stand and testify that the witness and she testified had never said before that this person was on the south side.

[08:10:29] Speaker 10:

I don't recall her saying that.

[08:10:30] Speaker 31:

Well, that's different than what he testified to, which is that she did not.

[08:10:34] Speaker 10:

Well, she did not.

[08:10:35] UNKNOWN:

OK.

[08:10:36] Speaker 31:

So as far as the person, her telling you, you've looked through this file, I'm sure.

[08:10:46] Speaker 22:

Yes.

[08:10:47] Speaker 31:

Yes. And you know that it's significant when people were able to see the shooter from the time that he went in the culvert, to the funeral home, to walking down, to the shots he was firing, and who could see him, and what was going on at the time. You know those are significant facts. Correct. And the shooter was apparently, I guess in this December 2025 interview that you were present for, a question was asked or Ms. Hale told you guys in that room that for the first time that anybody knows that she saw the shooter with a black shirt, wearing black, long black hair and a long gun or a rifle. Yeah.

[08:11:31] Speaker 09:

She said that.

[08:11:32] Speaker 31:

Right. And you recognize that to be the first time that anybody that she has ever said that to anybody.

[08:11:40] Speaker 10:

I don't know if that was the first time she said to anybody.

[08:11:43] Speaker 31:

Well, I guess to anybody in your investigation that would come over and discovery to us. Correct. You knew that that was the first time she'd ever said it.

[08:11:53] Speaker 32:

Correct.

[08:11:54] Speaker 31:

And nobody in that room thought to say, where did you see him?

[08:12:00] Speaker 09:

That was not asked.

[08:12:03] Speaker 31:

Okay, so as an investigator, as prosecutors, you have a significant fact that's come out and you're saying there was no follow-up questions to her saying that she saw a man dressed in black with a rifle and long hair. Nobody followed up, nobody said where. Where were you and where was he when you saw him?

[08:12:21] Speaker 10:

That was not asked.

[08:12:26] Speaker 31:

As an investigator, do you understand that that follow-up question would be a common It's a question that any investigator or prosecutor that you know of would ask if somebody has come up and said a material fact like that. Where were you and where was he when you saw him?

[08:12:43] Speaker 32:

Correct.

[08:12:44] Speaker 31:

And nobody in that room asked?

[08:12:46] Speaker 32:

Correct.

[08:12:50] Speaker 15:

I'll pass the witness. No further questions. Okay, you step down and have a seat back here to counsel too.

[08:12:58] Speaker 17:

May I address the Court of Audition here? I'd just like to point out that the indictment says it accuses Adrian Gonzalez of the time that occurred after Melody Flores informed him where the shooter was. That's the time that is relevant and material to this case. Where the shooter was any time before that has no bearing on Adrian Gonzalez or his conduct in this case.

[08:13:26] Speaker 27:

Well, we can't delve into their trial strategy, but I'm gleaning that there is some issued in that regard for the trial strategy. So any other evidence on the matter?

[08:13:43] Speaker 31:

Not from the defense. Okay. Arguments? I guess well, the only thing that I would like to ask because we started to speak to my client and then they put on more evidence. I had to come sit over here. I'd just like a brief moment to talk to him. I mean, it's his case. It's his part. I want to know how he feels about, because there are certain remedies that are severe.

[08:14:07] Speaker 27:

Well, there's several remedies, Heath, et cetera, that we can talk about. But yeah, talk to him. Thank you, Judge.

[08:14:46] Speaker 25:

You want to tell them we're, you know, another 15 minutes. If you don't mind.

[08:14:57] Speaker 36:

Judge, there were some findings that were left on my desk for this case. We need them right now or for tomorrow?

[08:15:07] Speaker 27:

Let's fight one battle at a time.

[08:15:12] Speaker 19:

Okay.

[08:15:14] UNKNOWN:

One on one. Okay. I'll bring them tomorrow.

[08:15:14] Speaker 27:

All right. You can take off if you want. Mr. Goss, we'll approach the bench real quick.

[08:21:52] Speaker 25:

I'm gonna do a

[08:22:49] Speaker 22:

.

[08:22:54] UNKNOWN:

.

[08:23:43] Speaker 26:

And I'm gonna excuse the jury.

[08:24:08] Speaker 27:

You can go bring him in if you like. The jury. Yeah, please.

[08:24:15] Speaker 23:

All rise for the jury.

[08:24:17] Speaker 27:

Come on up ma'am and have a seat. Witness stand. Okay, please be seated in the courtroom. Ladies and gentlemen, We had to take up a matter required by law outside your presence, as I've told you before, please don't hold it against either side. We need to because of issues that arose during that hearing. I am we were already going to have to quit tomorrow for the medical appointment at noon or one o'clock, so we were not going to be here in the afternoon to further deal with this issue. I'm going to continue this matter till Thursday morning at 9 o'clock for the jury. We will be here tomorrow dealing with a matter outside your presence, but I'm continuing the jury until 9 a.m. Thursday morning and hopefully all the other issues can get resolved during that period. So thank all of you for your consideration and your patience. It's very, very, very, very important with this day delay that you remember my instructions and do not read anything, watch anything or listen to anything that may be in the media about the case. Don't make any personal investigations. Don't talk to anybody about the case and don't let anybody talk to you. We will start on time 9am Thursday with this witness back on the stand. So have a good day off. I hope everything works out otherwise. And we'll see you at 9am on Thursday when everyone rise for the jury. your excuse for the evening. Thank you all very much. Okay, you can be seated in the courtroom. Ma'am. We're doing that continuance because of some issues that arose. And what I'd like for you to do is be back on Thursday morning at nine. But this is very important. The rule has been invoked. And it is a specific rule concerning witnesses. And it means you cannot talk to anyone about the case, about your testimony you gave in here today, or anything about the case to anyone other than the lawyers. Uh, that means family members, spouses, anybody until you're told the case is over with and you're released from the rule. All right, we'll see you back here. Nine o'clock thirsty. We'll see all 130 tomorrow.