[00:05:42] UNKNOWN:

you Yeah. you . . you Thank you. Thank you. . . you Thank you.

[00:33:22] Speaker 49:

.

[00:33:38] UNKNOWN:

. . . Thank you so much. Thank you. you . . Okay, I'm good.

[00:40:25] Speaker 26:

Thank you, everyone. Your Honor, in the matter of the Commonwealth versus Brian Walsh, criminal indictment 2023-0091, continuation of jury trial. Defendants present in court with counsel. Counsel starting with the Commonwealth. Kindly identify yourselves once again for the court and the record.

[00:40:55] Speaker 20:

Good morning, Your Honor. Greg Connor for the Commonwealth. Good morning.

[00:40:58] Speaker 35:

Good morning, Your Honor. Anne Yaz for the Commonwealth. Good morning. Good morning, Your Honor. Tracy Kusek for the Commonwealth.

[00:41:03] UNKNOWN:

Good morning.

[00:41:04] Speaker 44:

Good morning, Your Honor. Good morning, everyone. Kelly Porges on behalf of Mr. Walsh.

[00:41:07] Speaker 19:

Good morning. Good morning. Good morning, Your Honor. Larry Dipton for Mr. Walsh.

[00:41:12] Speaker 32:

All right. Madam Clerk, before I lose these, on the record, I'm handing you back these to you. I'm gonna have marked for identification the information I asked from the parties this morning. I've just handwritten on who's is who. So that can be marked as the next step. I think it might be N for identification. the first two pages that I asked for from both of the parties.

[00:41:42] Speaker 26:

Oh, you want them both to be in?

[00:41:44] Speaker 32:

They can go together. It's my handwriting on the top as to who's is who. All right, do we need to discuss anything before we bring Mr. Mutlu in?

[00:42:03] Speaker 35:

I have a few things that I would like to discuss. It could be after Mr. Mutlu, but there are a few things before the jury comes in that I would like to discuss about witnesses that I'm going to be doing directs of today. All right. Why don't we discuss that now? Thank you. Could we see you at the side of the bench? Oh, sure. Thank you very much.

[00:42:33] Speaker 49:

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. .

[00:45:50] UNKNOWN:

. you

[00:48:06] Speaker 49:

Thank you. Thank you. you

[00:52:51] UNKNOWN:

Thank you. Thank you.

[00:54:24] Speaker 49:

you you Thank you. Thank you. you you Thank you.

[01:02:21] UNKNOWN:

you

[01:02:58] Speaker 49:

you you

[01:06:22] UNKNOWN:

you

[01:07:02] Speaker 49:

Thank you.

[01:08:31] UNKNOWN:

you

[01:09:43] Speaker 49:

Thank you.

[01:10:39] Speaker 32:

I almost went Hold on a second. All right, we can have Mr. Mootlue in.

[01:12:05] Speaker 20:

Thank you, Your Honor. Commence to call Mr. Jim Mootlue.

[01:12:37] Speaker 26:

You may proceed.

[01:12:52] Speaker 20:

Thank you, Your Honor. Good morning, sir. Good morning. Excellent, we can hear you. I'm just going to ask if you can keep that microphone reasonably close to you, sir. Can you please spell your first and last name for the record?

[01:13:12] Speaker 06:

Sure, it's officially spelled C-E-M, last name M-U-T-L-U. I also spell it with a G, G-E-M. And can you state your name for us, sir? Jen Mutlu.

[01:13:26] Speaker 20:

And sir, right now I'd like to just focus on asking you some questions about a conversation you had with Anna Walsh on December 29th of 2022. Why did you call her that day? Why did you two talk that day?

[01:13:41] Speaker 06:

I called her to congratulate her on her closing.

[01:13:46] Speaker 20:

And how long was the conversation?

[01:13:50] Speaker 06:

I believe it was about 45 minutes.

[01:13:53] Speaker 20:

And besides congratulating her on the closing, what else did the two of you talk about?

[01:14:02] Speaker 06:

We caught up as friends. We talked about plans and also her life at the time, how she was feeling and yeah, we caught up on a number of things.

[01:14:22] Speaker 20:

Okay, so what did she tell you about her life at the time?

[01:14:32] Speaker 06:

What I got from it was that there were some issues, marital issues included, and that she was, I told her, I said, I don't want you to be too strong. Have you considered therapy? And she said yes.

[01:14:49] Speaker 20:

Okay. What is your memory of what she said as far as marital issues? And not your feeling, but what you remember the conversation to be, sir.

[01:15:02] Speaker 06:

Sure. Part of it was that she was going back and forth from D.C., which was taking a toll on her, and the fact that Brian had not been able to leave Massachusetts, so the children were here. and that was a huge, huge burden on her psyche. And that, you know, there were other issues. I don't recall with precision as to what they were. I do recall making, I do recall clearly making a mental note to say, this is going to be a much longer conversation, face-to-face, together, and a conversation obviously we never had an opportunity to have.

[01:15:53] Speaker 20:

Okay, so within that conversation, when she had discussions with you about marital issues, it was, I want to make sure that we've got this right, the difficulty of traveling, was that one of them for work?

[01:16:13] Speaker 06:

The fact that she was not seeing the children. Okay.

[01:16:17] Speaker 20:

All right, so that's more accurate and I don't want to misstate what you're saying, sir. That's correct. Not seeing the children and was also another part of it that Brian couldn't leave Massachusetts.

[01:16:28] Speaker 05:

That's correct.

[01:16:32] Speaker 20:

And I don't want to put words in your mouth, sir. I want to make sure that I'm getting your memory of the conversation. Is that what your memory of the conversation is?

[01:16:41] Speaker 06:

Well, my memory of the conversation is that they had marital issues and that she was seeking counseling for all the difficulties in her life, including marital issues. Okay. And I encouraged her to do the same because she, yeah, yeah, she's a very strong person. And yes, I specifically remember telling her, I don't want you to be too strong.

[01:17:09] UNKNOWN:

Okay.

[01:17:09] Speaker 20:

And within the marital issues, did she say specifically what the marital issues were?

[01:17:26] Speaker 06:

I don't recall going into detail during that conversation. There was another conversation we had in the summer. I remember that the parts of that conversation that was almost a two hour long conversation. I was in Puerto Rico at the time. And she and I had a lengthy conversation at that time. She said that Brian's art fraud case was taking its toll, that attorney fees were piling up, and that there was a lot of strain financially, a lot of difficulty, and yeah.

[01:18:07] Speaker 20:

Okay, but more to the point of December 29th, I'm going to ask you again. Did she say anything in the December 29th conversation with you about Brian not being able to leave Massachusetts?

[01:18:30] Speaker 06:

I don't recall with precision. I recall the feeling of it. I do not recall with precision as to whether those words in particular were spoken.

[01:18:39] Speaker 20:

Do you have any memory of when she discussed marital problems with you on December 29th, any issues of not seeing the children, of her stating that?

[01:18:56] Speaker 06:

Again, I do not recall with precision what words were spoken.

[01:19:01] Speaker 20:

Okay.

[01:19:01] Speaker 06:

That was the gist of a lot of her problems.

[01:19:05] Speaker 20:

Okay. So when you say that's the gist, is that the gist from the December 29th conversation, or is that your understanding of her overall problems?

[01:19:15] Speaker 06:

I believe it's both.

[01:19:17] Speaker 20:

Okay. All right. So now I want to ask you about New Year's Eve. On New Year's Eve, did you see Anna texting at all? I did. And from what you know of New Year's Eve, not from what people told you afterwards, do you know who she was texting to?

[01:19:38] Speaker 06:

Yeah. That I recall, I believe she was texting Abdullah. I believe she was texting Will Fastow, and I believe she may have been texting Emily, a mutual friend. and other people were texting her. It was New Year's Eve, so there was a lot of back and forth texting.

[01:20:08] Speaker 20:

And how do you know this from New Year's Eve? What did you experience see or what did you experience on New Year's Eve that lets you know this?

[01:20:18] Speaker 06:

I was sitting right next to her at the kitchen table.

[01:20:22] Speaker 20:

And did she ever say, now the three of you, did you ever take... Kitchen counter. Kitchen counter. Yeah.

[01:20:28] Speaker 32:

Did you ever... Are the tools on the counter there?

[01:20:31] Speaker 06:

Yes, there were stools on the counter.

[01:20:34] Speaker 32:

And were you and Anna seated on the same side?

[01:20:38] Speaker 06:

On the same side. I was seated here and she was to my left.

[01:20:41] Speaker 32:

Directly side by side?

[01:20:43] Speaker 06:

Directly side by side.

[01:20:44] Speaker 32:

Did she ever show you her phone that night? when she was sitting with you there?

[01:20:48] Speaker 06:

She had her phone with her. She took a picture of us that night.

[01:20:53] Speaker 20:

OK. All right, go ahead. Thank you. With the picture, do you remember who she sent it to that night? And this is what I'm really going to focus you, sir, is that night, not what people told you afterwards, do you have a memory of who she may have sent the picture you took with her that night?

[01:21:11] Speaker 06:

I believe that she said, let's take a picture and send it to Will Fastow.

[01:21:18] Speaker 32:

And, sir. Out loud, she said that?

[01:21:23] Speaker 06:

I believe so. I believe she said that to me that night. Let's take a picture out loud. Yes, let's take a picture and send it to Will Fastow. Again, I do not remember it with precision, but I do remember the picture being taken.

[01:21:39] Speaker 20:

Yeah. And sir, is it fair to say that along the lines of that statement, you told that to me yesterday at lunch? Is that correct? Yes. OK. Had you told me that before, it's your memory.

[01:21:55] Speaker 03:

I do not recall.

[01:21:56] Speaker 20:

OK. And on New Year's Eve, did you have any conversations with Anna about marital problems?

[01:22:04] Speaker 02:

No.

[01:22:05] Speaker 20:

Did you have any conversations with Brian about marital problems? No. And I think that that covers the subject matter of the module.

[01:22:19] Speaker 44:

Thank you. You had just mentioned a conversation that you had with Ms. Walsh on the 29th of December.

[01:22:30] UNKNOWN:

Yes. If I could just have you lean into that mic so we can hear you.

[01:22:34] Speaker 02:

Sure.

[01:22:35] Speaker 43:

And during that conversation, you told us that she mentioned I think it was difficult to be away from her kids.

[01:22:42] Speaker 06:

I believe so, yes.

[01:22:44] Speaker 46:

And I think you said at one point that it was difficult to travel back and forth.

[01:22:49] Speaker 06:

I believe so. Those are things that I knew about her anyway. We're very close friends.

[01:22:57] Speaker 40:

Let me just stop you. When you say those were things you knew about her anyway, what we're trying to do is focus you on things that she told you herself during that conversation.

[01:23:10] Speaker 44:

So as you sit here right now, do you have a memory of specifically what

[01:23:18] Speaker 06:

I do not remember everything that was said during a 45-minute conversation with Anna that night.

[01:23:24] Speaker 32:

So let me just jump in here for a second. You had a conversation with Anna Wilson December 29th, 2022. I did. And you remember the conversation was about 45 minutes long.

[01:23:35] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[01:23:36] Speaker 32:

So what I want you to distinguish between, sir, is you don't have to remember the exact words that she used these years later, but you have to have a memory that she actually said what you're discussing, as opposed to this feeling, this gist. You have a memory that she, even if you don't remember the exact words, that she did discuss with you, for instance, what Consul just said, this idea of being troubled by not seeing the children.

[01:24:11] Speaker 06:

So again, shortly after, I discussed, I explained over a two hour, two and a half hour statement to Detective Harrison, what I remembered because it was all fresh. And that testimony you do have.

[01:24:30] Speaker 32:

What I do not remember- I assume you review that in connection with your testimony here today.

[01:24:36] Speaker 06:

I'm sorry.

[01:24:36] Speaker 32:

Have you reviewed your prior statements to the police?

[01:24:39] Speaker 06:

I have not. No, I have not. I have not. So it's been three years, and that's why some of the very words that were spoken, I do not remember. I do remember very specifically having made a mental note to say, uh-huh, she has told me that there are marital issues, that she is seeking counseling, that it's been hard on her and that this gets to be a much longer conversation. So I made that note and I was going to reach out to her after the New Year's Eve event to schedule a time in person to speak about those issues.

[01:25:16] Speaker 44:

Thank you. When you first started talking to us this morning, you stated what I got from the conversation. and you had told us that you were close with Autumn, right?

[01:25:33] Speaker 06:

Yes, very close.

[01:25:34] Speaker 44:

So when you say that you got from her, was it just your feeling during this conversation that she was having marital issues or she specifically said the words marital issues?

[01:25:47] Speaker 06:

I do not recall her using the words marital issues. I recall her talking about problems with Brian.

[01:25:54] Speaker 44:

And when you say problems with Brian, the two that you had specified were being away from the children and going back and forth from work.

[01:26:04] Speaker 06:

I'll take a minute to try and remember if there was anything else that I can remember right now.

[01:26:12] Speaker 32:

Well, and you previously testified today that Brian not being able to come to DC.

[01:26:20] Speaker 44:

So the feeling that you got is that she was having marital issues. But it wasn't a statement that she said to you.

[01:26:30] Speaker 06:

No, it was. She did mention problems. She did mention issues. I just don't recall her using the words marital issues.

[01:26:39] Speaker 32:

Nothing further, Your Honor.

[01:26:40] Speaker 06:

All right.

[01:26:41] Speaker 32:

Any redirect? No, Your Honor. All right. You can step down, sir. Thank you.

[01:26:46] Speaker 02:

Thank you.

[01:26:59] Speaker 20:

Would you like us to be heard at the sidebar? I'm happy to say, Your Honor, I think that...

[01:27:04] Speaker 32:

Hold on. Now you may speak.

[01:27:07] Speaker 20:

Thank you, I apologize. All right. I don't have eyes back here. So... You are unmuted. Witness stated she told me there are marital issues. And then when asked about the term marital issues, he stated that there were problems in the marriage. Being away from the children, traveling back and forth from work. I would suggest that those come from that conversation and that that is absent of a feeling or a gist and would be admissible. And I would ask, and I would actually even lead on that just to make sure that we're going to the right portion. And I'm not misstating what he said.

[01:27:45] Speaker 32:

Well, I'll hear from the defense both with regard to the initial argument and also what's your position. If I do let the, well, what's your position with regard to leading?

[01:27:58] Speaker 44:

I would object. I don't think it's appropriate or necessary. He's a grown man. If there's an objection, I will make it. I don't think this is appropriate to lead this particular witness where they want him to go. With respect to the testimony, I don't think he should be able to use the term marital issue or marital problems. He was consistently pressed about what Ana told him. It's clear that this was his feeling, his characterization of that conversation. The purpose of this hearsay exception is to admit specific statements of a witness to show state of mind or motive. It is not a chance for this witness to pontificate about his feelings and responses to that witness. So I think he should be limited to just what she said. And I would object if he starts talking about marital problems or marital issues because I believe that was his characterization.

[01:28:47] Speaker 32:

All right. So as I said to him, he doesn't have to remember the exact words that she used. What he needs to remember is that she actually said it to him. It seems to me there are at least three things that he recalls her saying to him, maybe not the exact words. But as you just went through, that the back and forth was taking a toll on her, not seeing the children, I don't know if you put those two as one, that Brian hadn't been able to leave Massachusetts and that that was a huge burden on her psyche, I think is what he said. I think those are fair statements that he can bring in. I don't think he's had the benefit now of this voir dire in which he's gotten some little bit of legal instruction. I don't know how it's gonna play out real time with regard to that word marital problem, marital issues. But I suspect we'll take that as it comes. He may stay away from that just because he's just been cautioned and just been sort of made aware of the distinction of that he doesn't recall her using those words. So I suspect he won't bring that out. If he does, we'll either clarify it by saying, do you have any memory of her actually using those words? And I will entertain a motion to strike. But I think the general gist of he remembers enough of that conversation that some of it's gonna come in the three parts that I have indicated. Because it came up, I'd rather get out in front of this issue than being in the backside of it. Is the Commonwealth intending to bring up during his examination the Puerto Rico conversation?

[01:30:37] Speaker 20:

No, Your Honor. That is the first I heard of it. I wouldn't do that.

[01:30:41] Speaker 32:

All right. And then the other information that he provided, I guess, to the Commonwealth yesterday, that Anna said let's take a picture and send it to Will Fastow. I assume the defendant isn't objecting to that.

[01:31:02] Speaker 38:

We're not, Your Honor.

[01:31:04] Speaker 32:

All right. Anything else we need to cross?

[01:31:09] Speaker 09:

No, Your Honor.

[01:31:12] Speaker 42:

Yes, thank you.

[01:31:13] Speaker 32:

What time is it? Oh, they're already here. That's great. We can bring them in and then we'll get to it.

[01:31:18] Speaker 35:

I'm just gonna stay on the bench and take some notes, but you can go do that.

[01:31:28] Speaker 44:

Thank you very much Your honor by my step out for a moment as well you may thank you

[01:33:47] UNKNOWN:

No. Okay.

[01:35:59] Speaker 32:

Just the next three.

[01:36:13] Speaker 16:

Thank you.

[01:36:48] UNKNOWN:

. .

[01:38:00] Speaker 32:

All set for the jury.

[01:38:55] Speaker 19:

Okay.

[01:39:21] UNKNOWN:

Okay. Okay.

[01:39:24] Speaker 16:

Who is entering on the rise?

[01:40:05] Speaker 47:

Gary, Harry, Harry, all persons that have anything to do for the Honorable Judge Franier, President of the North Fork Superior Court, draw near if you're attendance and you shall be heard by St. Comeloff. May we say that the court is in session.

[01:40:23] Speaker 32:

Good morning, Jers.

[01:40:26] UNKNOWN:

Good morning.

[01:40:28] Speaker 32:

Here's welcome back to the courtroom. We'll start today. our conversation about the rules. First, were you able to comply with my order that you not do any research about this case? And were you able to comply with my order that you not speak to anyone about this case? and where you apply, which might order that you not go on any social media or go on any news media. Yes. And you all still have open minds. Yes. With those four questions for the record, I'll answer in the affirmative by all 16 jurors in the box. We're ready to begin today's work. I'll gladly call this next witness.

[01:41:33] Speaker 20:

Thank you, Your Honor.

[01:41:34] Speaker 14:

The Commonwealth would call Jim Mootin. Raise your right hand, please.

[01:41:57] Speaker 26:

And you may proceed.

[01:42:21] Speaker 20:

Thank you. Good morning, sir.

[01:42:23] Speaker 06:

Good morning.

[01:42:24] Speaker 20:

Could you please spell your name for the record?

[01:42:27] Speaker 06:

Sure. It's C-E-M. Last name M-U-T-L-U. I also spell it with a G-G-E-M. And could you tell us your name, sir? Jem Mutlu.

[01:42:40] Speaker 20:

Sir, what do you do for work?

[01:42:42] Speaker 06:

I'm a realtor.

[01:42:43] Speaker 20:

How long have you been a realtor?

[01:42:44] Speaker 06:

About 25 years.

[01:42:46] Speaker 20:

And what geographic area do you sell?

[01:42:49] Speaker 06:

Boston, suburbs, and eastern Massachusetts.

[01:42:53] Speaker 20:

Commercial or residential?

[01:42:54] Speaker 06:

Residential.

[01:42:57] Speaker 20:

And sir, are you familiar with Brian Walsh?

[01:43:00] Speaker 06:

I am.

[01:43:00] Speaker 20:

Can you tell us how you're familiar with Brian Walsh?

[01:43:03] Speaker 06:

We met at a leadership program back in 2020.

[01:43:07] Speaker 20:

Can you tell us the name of the leadership program?

[01:43:09] Speaker 06:

Boston Breakthrough Academy.

[01:43:12] Speaker 20:

And so, how long did the program go on for?

[01:43:17] Speaker 06:

It was the length of a semester, practically. Started at the beginning of the year and ended about the summer.

[01:43:24] Speaker 20:

And so you met Mr. Walsh at this leadership program. What was your relationship with him during this program?

[01:43:32] Speaker 06:

In the program, there was a buddy system. Everyone partnered with someone. And Brian asked to be my partner. And that's how we got to know each other.

[01:43:45] Speaker 20:

And so, did you maintain a relationship with him after the leadership program?

[01:43:50] Speaker 06:

Yes, I did.

[01:43:52] Speaker 20:

Now, are you familiar with Brian's wife, Anna Walsh?

[01:43:57] Speaker 06:

Yes, I am.

[01:43:58] Speaker 20:

How are you familiar with Anna?

[01:44:00] Speaker 06:

I met her through Ryan. She came to one of the graduations, and then I was introduced and knew about her interest in real estate. We had mutual friends, so it was inevitable that we would meet.

[01:44:16] Speaker 20:

And sir, I'm going to ask if you can pull that microphone closer to you. I think that'll help out. Sure. OK, much better, sir. So sir, did Anna Walsh ever work for you? Yes, she did. When did you hire Anna Walsh to start working for you?

[01:44:34] Speaker 06:

It was the summer of 2020.

[01:44:37] Speaker 20:

And what was her role for you?

[01:44:40] Speaker 06:

She was our Director of Operations for my team.

[01:44:43] Speaker 20:

And your team, how large was your team at this point in time?

[01:44:48] Speaker 06:

When she started, there were a few of us, but eventually we had three operators and I believe five or six agents and part-time marketing directors, et cetera.

[01:45:02] Speaker 20:

And how would you characterize your relationship with Anna Walsh?

[01:45:08] Speaker 06:

We became very close as friends.

[01:45:11] Speaker 20:

And when did she stop working for you?

[01:45:16] Speaker 06:

It was the spring of 2022.

[01:45:20] Speaker 20:

Why did she stop working for you?

[01:45:25] Speaker 06:

In the fall of 2021, she told me that she was offered a stellar job opportunity in D.C. And she asked for my blessings for it.

[01:45:40] Speaker 20:

Now, sir, when the two of you work together, how often would the two of you communicate?

[01:45:49] Speaker 06:

Practically every day, multiple times a day.

[01:45:54] Speaker 20:

And after she stopped working for you, how often would you communicate?

[01:45:59] Speaker 06:

Not as frequently.

[01:46:04] Speaker 20:

What was your relationship like with her family?

[01:46:10] Speaker 06:

Brian and her children?

[01:46:13] Speaker 20:

Yes, sir.

[01:46:16] Speaker 06:

I saw them as my own.

[01:46:18] Speaker 20:

Now, did you ever have, or your team is probably the better way to put this, did your team ever have the opportunity to sell any properties for Ana Walsh?

[01:46:29] Speaker 06:

Yes, we did.

[01:46:30] Speaker 20:

Can you tell us what properties your team sold for Ana Walsh?

[01:46:35] Speaker 06:

We sold a property in Marblehead where they were living when I met them. And then we moved them to a property in Cohasset, and then we sold that property as well for them.

[01:46:49] Speaker 20:

Were there any investment properties that your team was able to sell for Anawalsh?

[01:46:52] Speaker 06:

Yes.

[01:46:53] Speaker 20:

Where was that property?

[01:46:55] Speaker 06:

In Revere.

[01:46:56] Speaker 20:

And do you remember when that sale occurred?

[01:46:58] Speaker 06:

Well, that sale would have closed on December 29th or just a day or so before because I called her on the 29th, a couple days before New Year's to congratulate her.

[01:47:10] Speaker 20:

So I'm going to ask you some questions about December 29th now, sir.

[01:47:14] Speaker 11:

Yes.

[01:47:15] Speaker 20:

When you called her, how long do you think that call was?

[01:47:18] Speaker 06:

It was about 40, 40, 45 minutes.

[01:47:21] Speaker 20:

And why did you call her?

[01:47:23] Speaker 06:

I called to congratulate her on the closing. And I had found out that she was going to reinvest that property. And when you say reinvest that property... Rather, reinvest the proceeds from the sale of the property.

[01:47:40] Speaker 20:

And sir, are you familiar with what's called a 1031 exchange?

[01:47:44] Speaker 06:

I am.

[01:47:45] Speaker 20:

Could you just tell us what a 1031 exchange is?

[01:47:47] Speaker 06:

Sure. It's a federal like kind tax deferred exchange program where After a specific closing, a buyer.

[01:47:58] Speaker 20:

I'm going to interrupt you because of the noise outside. Sure. And then once that passes. Of course. It's kind of tough to compete with that. All right. Now, sir, I think that that's passed. You said that there's a certain period of time for this exchange. Can you tell us again?

[01:48:15] Speaker 06:

Correct. Typically, buyers have 45 days to declare one, two or three properties. It has to be of equal or greater value. And they would have six months, months, 180 days to close on one, two or three of those properties to equal again or be greater than the value of the proceeds of the sale.

[01:48:36] Speaker 20:

And so your understanding at this point in time was that Anna Walsh was going to use these funds for a 1031 exchange?

[01:48:43] Speaker 06:

That's correct. I was happy for her that she would actually reinvest and that her, you know, that she would grow financially.

[01:48:53] Speaker 20:

Now, during this conversation, what plans were made for New Year's Eve?

[01:49:04] Speaker 06:

She specifically told me, she said, I know you. You're not going to go anywhere for New Year's Eve. You're just going to stay at home. Please, please come and spend New Year's with us.

[01:49:20] Speaker 20:

Did you agree to?

[01:49:20] Speaker 06:

I did.

[01:49:22] Speaker 20:

Now, during the conversation, what did she tell you? What did she, well, let me ask you this. When you had this conversation, did she have any problems?

[01:49:43] Speaker 05:

Yes.

[01:49:44] Speaker 20:

What did she tell you about these problems?

[01:49:47] Speaker 32:

Let me, Jers, give you a little midstream instruction with regard to the expected testing. I expect now that Mr. Mulu is going to provide some testimony regarding statements that were made by Anna Walsh during this conversation on December 29th, 2022. The statements made by Anna Walsh are being admitted only for the limited purpose of establishing her state of mind cannot be considered as proof of the criminal acts charged.

[01:50:23] Speaker 20:

You may proceed. Thank you. Sir, what did she tell you as far as problems she was having in this conversation on December 29th?

[01:50:38] Speaker 06:

Well, I don't remember the specific words that were spoken after three years. Yes, sir. I will tell you that she did say that at the time that they were having marital problems.

[01:50:51] Speaker 44:

Your Honor, characterization.

[01:50:53] Speaker 32:

All right. I'll strike the characterization. Why don't you approach it a different way?

[01:50:59] Speaker 20:

I will. What did she tell you as far as traveling back and forth?

[01:51:05] Speaker 06:

That it was taking a toll on her, that she wasn't, that obviously as a mother not seeing her children.

[01:51:13] Speaker 44:

Your honor, objection moved to strike. May we be seen at sidebar?

[01:51:18] Speaker 32:

You may be.

[01:52:11] UNKNOWN:

you

[01:53:05] Speaker 20:

Sir, what did she say about not seeing the children?

[01:53:11] Speaker 05:

That it was difficult for her.

[01:53:13] Speaker 20:

And what did she say about Brian Walsh not being able to leave Massachusetts?

[01:53:24] Speaker 06:

Again, I don't recall specifically the words that were spoken. I do not recall exactly every single word that was spoken during that conversation.

[01:53:37] Speaker 20:

Understood. It's been three years, sir. It has. Okay.

[01:53:40] Speaker 06:

I did give Detector Harrison...

[01:53:41] Speaker 44:

Objection, Your Honor. Move to strike.

[01:53:43] Speaker 32:

All right. We'll strike that last portion. That's okay. And sir, again... Oh, another question.

[01:53:47] Speaker 20:

Sure. Thank you. I understand. Now, sir, moving past December 29th. Okay. When was the next time you got to see Anna Walsh?

[01:54:06] Speaker 06:

On December 31st.

[01:54:07] Speaker 20:

Where did you get to see Anna Walsh?

[01:54:12] Speaker 06:

At their rental house in Cohasset.

[01:54:15] Speaker 20:

Okay, so that night when you went to the rental house, did you bring anything with you?

[01:54:21] Speaker 06:

I did.

[01:54:21] Speaker 20:

What did you bring with you?

[01:54:22] Speaker 06:

I brought fruit and chocolate for the children.

[01:54:27] Speaker 20:

And about what time do you think you got to their home that night?

[01:54:33] Speaker 06:

About 8 30.

[01:54:35] Speaker 20:

Was anyone with you when you went to the home?

[01:54:38] Speaker 06:

Yes. I mean, not with me. No, there were people in the home.

[01:54:42] Speaker 20:

Well, we're going to get to that. So, but with you, there was no one else with you in your car.

[01:54:46] Speaker 06:

There was no one else with me. No.

[01:54:48] Speaker 20:

Okay. And so tell us what happened when you got there at the Walsh house.

[01:54:57] Speaker 06:

Anna came running out of the house to greet me.

[01:55:13] Speaker 05:

Yeah, that's what happened.

[01:55:17] Speaker 20:

And when she greeted you, where'd you go, sir?

[01:55:20] Speaker 06:

Excuse me?

[01:55:21] Speaker 20:

When she greeted you, where were you when she greeted you?

[01:55:24] Speaker 06:

I was still pulling up into the driveway. She came running out of the house with no coat on. It was freezing.

[01:55:35] Speaker 20:

And what happened when she greeted you? What happened when she greeted you? What did she do?

[01:55:42] Speaker 06:

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you.

[01:55:43] Speaker 20:

What did she do, sir?

[01:55:44] Speaker 06:

What did she do? Well, I opened the door, we hugged each other, and then she ushered me in.

[01:55:53] Speaker 20:

Now, when you got inside, who was home?

[01:55:56] Speaker 06:

Brian was there.

[01:55:58] Speaker 20:

And where were the children at this point in time?

[01:56:00] Speaker 06:

I was told they were sleeping.

[01:56:05] Speaker 20:

When you got inside, where did the three of you kind of socialize or congregate?

[01:56:11] Speaker 06:

Sure. It was in the kitchen countertops. There was a large island.

[01:56:19] Speaker 20:

And Ms. Gilman, could we have exhibit three? Sir, can you see that screen? Showing, for the record, exhibit three is on the screen. You were nodding your head. Can you see it?

[01:56:36] Speaker 06:

I can see it.

[01:56:37] Speaker 20:

All right. Is that where the three of you socialized that night? Yes. Ms. Gilman, if you could take that down. Now, what was Anna Walsh's demeanor that night when you were in their kitchen?

[01:56:55] Speaker 06:

Festive. Very happy to see me.

[01:56:58] Speaker 20:

And I apologize. I didn't mean to interrupt you.

[01:57:02] Speaker 06:

That's it.

[01:57:04] Speaker 20:

What was Brian Walsh's demeanor like while the three of you were together?

[01:57:08] Speaker 06:

He seemed fine. He seemed happy.

[01:57:12] Speaker 20:

And so when we were looking at exhibit three, where were you seated as far as being around in the kitchen?

[01:57:23] Speaker 06:

We were, Ana and I were seated on the stools of the kitchen. And Brian was on the other side preparing the meal and serving us drinks and food.

[01:57:36] Speaker 20:

OK. Now, that night, did anyone join the three of you? Yes. Who joined the three of you?

[01:57:45] Speaker 06:

Their oldest son.

[01:57:48] Speaker 20:

And what happened when he joined the three of you?

[01:58:05] Speaker 06:

He ran to me and he said, Jim, I haven't seen you in a while. I miss you. And he hugged me.

[01:58:17] Speaker 20:

Now, did you take any photos with the oldest child that night?

[01:58:23] Speaker 06:

Yes, Anna took a photo.

[01:58:26] Speaker 20:

And that night, Anna took the photo. What did she use to take the photo?

[01:58:32] Speaker 06:

I believe it was her cell phone that she used.

[01:58:37] Speaker 20:

And so that night with her cell phone, could you see her doing anything with her cell phone?

[01:58:44] Speaker 06:

She was texting folks.

[01:58:46] Speaker 20:

And do you know who she was texting?

[01:58:49] Speaker 06:

Well, I do know that she had either received a text message or was texting back with Abdullah. And I believe she said, let's take a photo for Will and send it to Will Fastow. And I believe she was texting with Emily, and it would have been maybe a bunch of other friends who were texting her. It was New Year's Eve. A lot of messages back and forth.

[01:59:20] Speaker 20:

How long was their oldest child with you that night?

[01:59:25] Speaker 06:

I'm going to say, A half hour, maybe a little more.

[01:59:29] Speaker 20:

And that night, what did the three of you have to drink?

[01:59:40] Speaker 06:

Mostly wine and champagne. I don't recall having had hard liquor.

[01:59:48] Speaker 20:

And did you do anything with the champagne box that night?

[01:59:54] Speaker 06:

Yes.

[01:59:55] Speaker 20:

What did the three of you do with the champagne box?

[01:59:57] Speaker 06:

We all signed it.

[02:00:00] Speaker 20:

Your Honor, we have previously marked as exhibits 257, 258, 259.

[02:00:13] Speaker 32:

You may. So the previously marked exhibits 257, 58, and 59 are identified for the record now as three photos 257 is the side of the bottle that Anna Walsh signed. 258 is the side of the box that Brian Walsh signed. 259 is the side of the box that Mr. Mutlu signed. You may proceed.

[02:00:46] Speaker 20:

Thank you, Your Honor. Ms. Yellen, we have file number SLD 7221, which has now been marked as exhibit 257. Mr. Mutlu, is this the box the three of you signed? Yes. And are you able to read the writing on the box in exhibit 257?

[02:01:11] Speaker 11:

Yes.

[02:01:12] Speaker 20:

Could you read it out loud for us, sir?

[02:01:14] Speaker 06:

Sure. Wow, 2022, what a year. And yet we are still here and together, let's make 2023 the best one yet. We are the authors of our lives. Courage, love, perseverance, compassion, and joy, love, honor.

[02:01:42] Speaker 20:

Ms. Gilman, can we now have exhibit 258, which is file number 7222? Sir, does this look like the side that Brian signed?

[02:01:54] Speaker 06:

Yes.

[02:01:55] Speaker 20:

Could you read in this portion if it's possible?

[02:01:57] Speaker 06:

Yes. Jim, Anna, Brian, New Year's Eve 2023. To the best triumvirate ever. Love, Brian. And then the date, December 31st, 2022.

[02:02:13] Speaker 20:

And finally, Ms. Gilman, could we have file number 7224, which is now being admitted as exhibit 259. Sir, do you recognize this side of the box?

[02:02:26] Speaker 06:

Yes, it's my handwriting.

[02:02:27] Speaker 20:

And can you read what you wrote on the box?

[02:02:31] Speaker 06:

Yes. No place I'd rather be but here. New Year's Eve, 2022.

[02:02:37] Speaker 20:

That night, did the oldest child give you anything?

[02:02:45] Speaker 06:

Yes, he did.

[02:02:46] Speaker 20:

What did he give you?

[02:02:47] Speaker 06:

He gave me a necklace.

[02:02:54] Speaker 20:

Now, that night, did you see any injuries on Anna?

[02:03:04] Speaker 02:

No.

[02:03:05] Speaker 20:

Did you have any concerns about her health?

[02:03:11] Speaker 06:

Physical health?

[02:03:12] Speaker 20:

Yes. No. And that night, do you remember what Brian Walsh told you he had had for income that year in 2022?

[02:03:25] Speaker 06:

Um, yes. The gist of it that was that he had, it was 50 or $60,000 that I remember.

[02:03:35] Speaker 20:

And that night, did he tell you about Ana's compensation that she now had at Tishmans Meyer?

[02:03:40] Speaker 06:

Yes. And I believe he said that it was $240,000 plus with bonus, it would add up to roughly $300,000.

[02:03:50] Speaker 20:

What problems did you see between the two of them that night?

[02:03:54] Speaker 06:

None. Nothing that was visible. It was a festive night.

[02:03:59] Speaker 20:

And that night, what did Mr. Walsh tell you about his cell phone?

[02:04:05] Speaker 06:

At some point, he said that he had misplaced his phone. And I remember this vividly that he said that it actually felt refreshing to be away from the phone for a little while.

[02:04:19] Speaker 20:

Did he tell you what time he normally goes to bed?

[02:04:23] Speaker 06:

Yes, because I asked him, because it was getting late and I didn't want to overstay my welcome. And I believe he said around 9, 9.30 because they were waking up early for the kids.

[02:04:38] Speaker 20:

And so after hearing this, what did you decide to do?

[02:04:42] Speaker 06:

I said I'd better go.

[02:04:44] Speaker 20:

About what time was it when you left the home that night?

[02:04:46] Speaker 06:

I'm going to say it was probably around 1, 1.30. And I don't recall with precision, but it was probably around that time.

[02:04:56] Speaker 20:

And now, when you left, did you go right home?

[02:05:05] Speaker 06:

No, I actually stopped at a big shopping mall nearby because I wanted to pick the music home and I did not want to be driving and picking the music home that night. So I stopped there and it was there was, to my recollection, there was nobody else there. Lots of lights around.

[02:05:27] Speaker 20:

Before you left that evening, was there any conversation about a work emergency for Ana?

[02:05:32] Speaker 02:

No.

[02:05:37] Speaker 20:

Now, when was it the next time you tried to contact Brian or Anna?

[02:05:46] Speaker 06:

It was the following day.

[02:05:47] Speaker 20:

And how did you try to contact them?

[02:05:49] Speaker 06:

I sent them a text message.

[02:05:54] Speaker 20:

Ms. Gilman, could we have what's been March's exhibit 166? Sir, showing you what's been marked as 166, do you see the blue bubble where it says, I love my necklace?

[02:06:21] Speaker 06:

I do.

[02:06:22] Speaker 20:

Was that your text to Brian Walsh?

[02:06:30] Speaker 06:

Yes, I believe I had sent it to both of them, both Brian and Anna.

[02:06:35] Speaker 20:

Ms. Gilman, could you scroll all the way up to the top of that document? Yeah. So sir, you see where it says participants?

[02:06:43] Speaker 06:

Yeah.

[02:06:43] Speaker 20:

And so do you believe you sent it to those two other people?

[02:06:48] Speaker 06:

To both Brian and Ana, yes.

[02:06:51] Speaker 20:

And Ms. Gilman, could you scroll down to the top of page two? Now, I'm sorry, can you scroll down to the top of page three? There we go. Sir, showing you the top of page three from exhibit 166, there's a green bubble. Do you see that, sir? I do. And do you see it says Thomas just found my phone? I do. Before January 2nd, had you had any conversations with Brian Walsh via cell phone?

[02:07:40] Speaker 06:

before January 2nd? Yes. Any conversations? Calls. No, not, no.

[02:07:50] Speaker 20:

And if we could close out of that, Ms. Gilman. Now, when is the next time you spoke to Brian Walsh on the phone?

[02:08:02] Speaker 06:

It was a Wednesday morning.

[02:08:05] Speaker 20:

And what happened Wednesday morning?

[02:08:09] Speaker 06:

It was mid morning. I remember being on the beach in Nahant and taking a walk and I received a call from Brian and he said, have you heard from Ana?

[02:08:27] Speaker 20:

What'd you say?

[02:08:28] Speaker 06:

And I said, what do you mean? He says, well, Ana's been missing. And I said, how could she be missing? And he said that she left that morning after I had left. She left a few hours later. I think he said around 6, 6.30, that she got in an Uber and left.

[02:08:52] Speaker 20:

And did he say why she left?

[02:08:55] Speaker 06:

Yes, he said that she had a work emergency.

[02:09:00] Speaker 20:

Now, hearing this, did you ask him anything about that?

[02:09:04] Speaker 06:

I did.

[02:09:04] Speaker 20:

What did you ask him?

[02:09:07] Speaker 06:

I said, I mean, I said, I was incredulous. I said, what work emergency could there have been on New Year's Eve? That, you know, it was commercial property. What could it be? I said, listen, did you guys have an argument or something? Did you have a fight?

[02:09:24] Speaker 20:

And what was his response to that statement, sir?

[02:09:28] Speaker 06:

His response was, I do remember this vividly as well, his response was, no, did it look like we had an argument? You were there.

[02:09:41] Speaker 20:

And what did you say to that?

[02:09:44] Speaker 06:

I didn't know what to make of it. I was in shock. So I said, you've got to call the police. And we've got to alert everybody. We've got to let our community know. And we've got to find her.

[02:10:00] Speaker 20:

Now, what was his tone like in this conversation, his demeanor?

[02:10:14] Speaker 06:

I remember the tone to be way more even keeled or way more toned down for somebody who was.

[02:10:26] Speaker 32:

Not a characterization, but what do you remember of his tone during that call?

[02:10:33] Speaker 06:

His tone was not panicked.

[02:10:41] Speaker 20:

After that call, how often were you speaking to him over the phone the next few days?

[02:10:52] Speaker 06:

We would have spoken a few times. We actually had some group calls with the community, a lot of friends from the leadership program that we had gotten to know well and love.

[02:11:07] Speaker 20:

And sir, did you have any text conversations with him as well?

[02:11:13] Speaker 06:

I do not recall.

[02:11:17] Speaker 20:

Okay. Now, sir, since you left the home on New Year's Day of 2023, have you seen Anna Walsh?

[02:11:38] Speaker 02:

No.

[02:11:39] Speaker 20:

Have you heard from her?

[02:11:40] Speaker 02:

No.

[02:11:42] Speaker 20:

Nothing further, Your Honor.

[02:12:00] Speaker 41:

Good morning.

[02:12:02] Speaker 06:

Good morning.

[02:12:04] Speaker 44:

I want to talk to you a little bit about the Boston Breakthrough Academy you've spoken about.

[02:12:09] UNKNOWN:

Sure.

[02:12:11] Speaker 44:

You said that it was a semester, like about a semester long. And this Breakthrough Academy, was this for professionals? Was it for anyone?

[02:12:22] Speaker 06:

It was for anyone. It was the premise was to become better human beings and improve on emotional intelligence. And so it was set up in three parts, discovery, breakthrough and leadership and leadership was by invitation.

[02:12:46] Speaker 44:

Okay. And you had taken this, I think was you start in January of 2020. Yeah. And Mr. Walsh was in the group with you.

[02:12:55] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[02:12:56] Speaker 44:

And Anna Walsh had taken this very same program the semester before.

[02:13:00] Speaker 06:

The semester before, correct.

[02:13:02] Speaker 44:

You told us that during this program, Mr. Walsh was your buddy.

[02:13:06] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[02:13:07] Speaker 44:

And when you say buddy, is this something that the program kind of establishes where they match you up?

[02:13:13] Speaker 06:

That is correct.

[02:13:14] Speaker 44:

OK. And you had told you that Mr. Walsh sought you out.

[02:13:18] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[02:13:19] Speaker 44:

And he sought you out because his wife was like, hey, this guy, Jim, this is who you should buddy with. I was just saying that when Mr. Walsh came up to you that day, it was because Ana said, hey, Gem, I want you to buddy with Gem.

[02:13:41] Speaker 06:

That's what she told me afterwards.

[02:13:43] Speaker 44:

And at that point, you hadn't met Mr. Walsh before.

[02:13:48] Speaker 06:

Oh, I had. I had. We were in the same program. We were in the same class. The buddy system is introduced during the class after maybe hours or days or thereabouts. I can't remember exactly when it was introduced, but we had interactions. People spoke at times and yeah, we were in the same room.

[02:14:09] Speaker 44:

Okay, let me take a step back. You hadn't met his wife at that point.

[02:14:14] Speaker 06:

I had not met Ana at that time, no.

[02:14:16] Speaker 44:

And when you were in this group in January of 2020, you had been in real estate for quite some time.

[02:14:21] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[02:14:22] Speaker 44:

And you've told us that that's something that Ana was interested in.

[02:14:25] Speaker 06:

I found out later that she was, yes.

[02:14:27] Speaker 44:

And Mr. Walsh also was interested in investing property.

[02:14:39] Speaker 06:

We talked about investments mostly with Anna.

[02:14:42] Speaker 44:

Okay, when you said we, you meant Mr. Walsh.

[02:14:45] Speaker 06:

No, Anna and I talked about investments mostly with her. She mostly about property investments came from her rather than from Brian.

[02:14:56] Speaker 44:

And she was the one that told Brian to buddy up with you, a realtor at this program.

[02:15:01] Speaker 06:

That's correct. But that wasn't related to investments.

[02:15:04] Speaker 44:

OK. You told us a little bit already, but at some point you did meet Anna.

[02:15:10] Speaker 06:

I did.

[02:15:12] Speaker 44:

And you met Anna through Mr. Walsh from being in that group with him.

[02:15:16] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:15:17] Speaker 44:

OK. And your experience with Brian in the group was that you became friends with him during that process. And this is someone that you respected as a colleague.

[02:15:34] Speaker 06:

A colleague? In what manner? Brian was not a colleague of mine.

[02:15:39] Speaker 44:

Well, you became friends with him.

[02:15:41] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[02:15:42] Speaker 44:

And during this program, to you, he was an impactful person.

[02:15:50] Speaker 06:

During the program and thereafter? Yes, absolutely.

[02:15:55] Speaker 44:

And when you say impactful person, can you tell us what you mean by that?

[02:16:01] Speaker 06:

Well, first of all, we got very close during the program. I got to meet his family and Anna, the children. And we got close. We were very good friends. We became very good friends.

[02:16:21] Speaker 44:

OK. I guess what I don't understand is when you say someone's impactful, does that mean they're a kind person, a powerful person, a loving person?

[02:16:32] Speaker 02:

That they look out for you.

[02:16:35] Speaker 32:

I'll see you at the side of the bench.

[02:17:20] UNKNOWN:

you

[02:18:03] Speaker 44:

I just want to return to your impressions of Mr. Walsh when you got to know him through that leadership program. You had told us that he became a good friend.

[02:18:14] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[02:18:15] Speaker 44:

And then can you tell us more about your experience with him in that program where you had described him as an impactful person?

[02:18:22] Speaker 06:

Sure. It was clear that he was making an effort to show up, and it was the time of COVID, and we all had to pick, collectively we had to pick, as part of the program, a community service project. And Brian pushed hard for us to select a, everyone chipped in and made a case for different organizations, and this was a nonprofit organization. out of Brooklyn called Loving Spoonfuls. And we ended up raising, well, I think 80-some thousand dollars. And Brian somehow also was able to, I believe, match those funds. So it ended up becoming $160,000, $170,000, that I recall. And we were told that hundreds of thousands of people were fed as a result. And he was the top fundraiser.

[02:19:28] Speaker 44:

At some point you had told us that you did meet Brian's wife, Anna.

[02:19:32] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[02:19:33] Speaker 44:

Where did you first meet her?

[02:19:39] Speaker 06:

I recall having seen her at one of the graduations, many graduations. It was, again, discovery breakthrough. I can't recall which one, but I was hearing about her because we had a mutual friend.

[02:19:56] Speaker 44:

And as you got to know her more, I assume that the three of you would have dinners together, meet for drinks. Tell me a little bit about how your relationship with all three of them would progress.

[02:20:09] Speaker 06:

The three of us, meaning Anna, Brian, and myself? Yes. Well, initially again, when Anna started, after Anna started working for me, I mean, I remember spending at least one other New Year's with them in those three years. So that would have been two New Years spent in three years with them. And we've met at their house, Marblehead and Cohasset, and we've socialized in many other ways. But Ana and I spoke. Practically every day when she worked for me, she would sometimes come to my house in the South End and bring pastries, and we would strategize and talk. We also had a team. We would meet with other team members. And sometimes, again, yeah, we were very close.

[02:21:12] Speaker 44:

OK. Yeah. I think you described, I think, Brian's family as, I think the words you use, where you saw them as your own.

[02:21:21] Speaker 07:

I did.

[02:21:22] Speaker 44:

OK. You had told us just now a time where you were living in the South End.

[02:21:27] Speaker 04:

I was.

[02:21:28] Speaker 44:

And at this time when Anna started working for you, were you married, unmarried?

[02:21:34] Speaker 06:

I? Unmarried.

[02:21:36] Speaker 44:

And you had told us that, Ana, you were talking every day, right?

[02:21:40] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[02:21:41] Speaker 44:

And you were talking at night and on the weekends as well?

[02:21:44] Speaker 06:

As the job required or, yeah, or as our friendship required.

[02:21:48] Speaker 44:

And Ana would come to your home and bring food and spend time with you there?

[02:21:53] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[02:21:54] Speaker 44:

And was that nighttime, weekends, days, whenever it warranted?

[02:21:58] Speaker 06:

Days usually, yeah.

[02:22:00] Speaker 44:

And when Ana was working for you, that you just described, he never complained to you about how much time you were spending with his wife?

[02:22:11] Speaker 02:

Ryan?

[02:22:12] Speaker 06:

No.

[02:22:13] Speaker 44:

He never complained that you were texting her a lot or spending time with her?

[02:22:19] Speaker 06:

No.

[02:22:19] Speaker 44:

He supported her career with you?

[02:22:23] Speaker 06:

He did.

[02:22:24] Speaker 40:

He was proud of her?

[02:22:26] Speaker 06:

To my recollection, yes, he was.

[02:22:37] Speaker 44:

Am I correct that you and Anna hit it off quickly? It wasn't a slow burn. You really became instant friends with each other.

[02:22:44] Speaker 06:

That's correct. She was very easy to warm up to.

[02:22:47] Speaker 44:

Okay. And part of the reason is that you had similar backgrounds?

[02:22:51] Speaker 06:

Yes, we did.

[02:22:52] Speaker 44:

Okay. And you had already started telling us that at some point she started to work for you.

[02:22:58] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:22:59] Speaker 44:

Okay. And that was in the summer of 2020?

[02:23:02] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:23:03] Speaker 44:

And the director of operations is basically she became your right hand. She did. So a director of operations might be taking care of your social media to arranging. I mean, tell me I guess a little bit more. What was she doing for you on a regular basis?

[02:23:25] Speaker 06:

Well, there was, I mean, she did everything. A director of operations is truly the right hand of someone who runs a business. And she did everything. She would bring me coffee. She took pride in bringing me coffee. A couple of times she dropped off my dry cleaners, which were tasks that were obviously not necessarily in her job description. But I do remember asking her, is there anything you wouldn't do? She came from, She came from hospitality and she took pride. That's the way she was at our open houses. She would rush to open doors for people. She would give them real glass champagne. She would serve the glass. The way she came out, as I just explained moments ago, the way she came out of the house that night on December 31st to open the door for me. And she was an exceptional employee and friend.

[02:24:21] Speaker 44:

And you valued her employee. She was valuable to you as a friend and an employee.

[02:24:26] Speaker 06:

Very much so.

[02:24:27] Speaker 44:

You relied on her.

[02:24:28] Speaker 06:

Absolutely.

[02:24:29] Speaker 44:

She never said no to you. She did what the job required.

[02:24:33] Speaker 06:

That is not true.

[02:24:33] Speaker 44:

OK. So tell me about a time she said no to you or disagreed with you.

[02:24:37] Speaker 06:

Well, we did have a disagreement in the fall of 2021. And there were times that she sort of she responded to me a couple of times with what I perceive to be passive aggression. And yeah, I actually reached out to a mutual friend and then another friend in leadership to seek some opinions as to how I could handle this.

[02:25:16] Speaker 44:

And did you end up handling it by suspending her for a period of time that fall of 2021?

[02:25:23] Speaker 06:

I told her that she should, she should take a rest. She should stay at home and that I would continue to pay her for as long as it took, but that she should take, she should take some time off because she was also working exceptionally hard and that was taking a toll on her. She wanted to prove herself. She's, she's like that. So I remember a client of ours.

[02:25:44] Speaker 44:

I'm just going to stop you.

[02:25:45] Speaker 06:

Yes.

[02:25:46] Speaker 44:

When you, as you say, suspended or had her take some time off, you still loved her at that point as a friend.

[02:25:52] Speaker 06:

Very much so.

[02:25:53] Speaker 44:

You were still close with her.

[02:25:54] Speaker 06:

Very much so.

[02:25:55] Speaker 44:

It didn't end the personal relationship.

[02:25:57] Speaker 06:

No, not at all. And it didn't end the professional relationship either.

[02:26:00] Speaker 44:

And during that time, I think you talked about seeking counsel. You actually reached out to Mr. Walsh to talk to him about it specifically.

[02:26:08] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[02:26:09] Speaker 44:

Because this was obviously, Anna was important to you professionally.

[02:26:13] Speaker 06:

And as a friend, yes.

[02:26:15] Speaker 44:

And personally.

[02:26:16] Speaker 06:

Yes, absolutely.

[02:26:17] Speaker 44:

And Brian was a close friend of yours.

[02:26:20] Speaker 06:

That is correct.

[02:26:21] Speaker 44:

and you wanted to talk to him and get counsel about how to best move past this.

[02:26:25] Speaker 06:

Yes, we did. We met in the North End. We had a meal and talked about it.

[02:26:33] Speaker 44:

At some point in November of 2021, just about two months after the incident you just described, Anna told you that she was thinking about taking a job somewhere else.

[02:26:45] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[02:26:47] Speaker 44:

And your first response was that you were disappointed.

[02:26:50] Speaker 06:

Yes.

[02:26:51] Speaker 44:

You were sad about this.

[02:26:52] Speaker 06:

I was.

[02:26:53] Speaker 44:

Because in your mind, you guys were really going to partner up and continue to grow together.

[02:26:58] Speaker 06:

It was the idea, yes.

[02:27:00] Speaker 44:

And because you were upset and sad, Mr. and Mrs. Walsh actually had you over to their home to talk about this further.

[02:27:07] Speaker 07:

That is correct.

[02:27:08] Speaker 44:

To let you know that they cared about you and loved you.

[02:27:11] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:27:12] Speaker 44:

And that this is what was best for Anna.

[02:27:15] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:27:15] Speaker 44:

And what was best for the family.

[02:27:17] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:27:18] Speaker 44:

And during this conversation when Anna was telling, or they were both telling you about her new job and you were sad about it, Brian said to you, you've got to support her, right?

[02:27:34] Speaker 06:

Yeah, I do. I do remember that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[02:27:41] Speaker 44:

I want to talk to you a little bit about the job that she ended up taking. Am I correct that it was at Tishman Spire in Washington, D.C.?

[02:27:50] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:27:51] Speaker 44:

And this was a big job.

[02:27:53] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:27:53] Speaker 44:

I think you already told us how much she was making, but this was a big salary job, a big step for her.

[02:27:58] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:28:00] Speaker 44:

And this was an opportunity for her, a growth opportunity.

[02:28:04] Speaker 07:

Yes.

[02:28:05] Speaker 44:

And that is something that you and her had talked about, growth and opportunity, right?

[02:28:09] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:28:10] Speaker 44:

It was something important to you?

[02:28:11] Speaker 07:

Absolutely.

[02:28:14] Speaker 44:

And it was something important to Anna?

[02:28:16] Speaker 07:

Absolutely.

[02:28:16] Speaker 44:

And through your time in becoming friends with Mr. Walsh, it was important to him as well?

[02:28:22] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:28:23] Speaker 44:

And they had small children?

[02:28:25] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:28:26] UNKNOWN:

Okay.

[02:28:28] Speaker 44:

And part of this transition was the family eventually moving to Washington, D.C.?

[02:28:35] Speaker 06:

That was the idea.

[02:28:37] Speaker 44:

And this transition was not only for Ana's job, but Mr. Walsh's uncle was also moving to the DC, Virginia area at the time. So there'd be more family down there.

[02:28:49] Speaker 06:

That's what I was told. And that his mother would also move.

[02:28:52] Speaker 44:

So his mother, again, you just said it was also interested in moving to that area. Yeah. And Ana was going to go down first. And the plan was obviously to start establishing not just professional contacts, but personal contacts.

[02:29:06] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[02:29:07] Speaker 44:

Because they were going to bring their boys down there.

[02:29:09] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[02:29:11] Speaker 44:

And you had told us that Anna was also interested in investing in real estate.

[02:29:16] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:29:23] Speaker 44:

And at this point, am I correct that it is the fall into the winter, fall of 2021, winter of 2022? That's right. Okay. And at this point, you had learned that Mr. Walsh had a pending federal case going on.

[02:29:42] Speaker 06:

I had, yes.

[02:29:45] Speaker 44:

And I want to talk to you just a little bit about your experience with the federal case, okay? Because you had become close to both Mr. and Mrs. Walsh, you actually attended one or two of the hearings. And you went to support Brian?

[02:30:02] Speaker 07:

I did.

[02:30:03] Speaker 44:

And you went also to support Anna?

[02:30:05] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:30:06] Speaker 44:

Because this was difficult for both of them.

[02:30:08] Speaker 07:

It was.

[02:30:09] Speaker 44:

And Mr. Walsh's mother was there?

[02:30:12] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:30:13] Speaker 44:

And I believe there were other friends of Anna and Brian who had gone?

[02:30:17] Speaker 07:

That is correct.

[02:30:18] Speaker 44:

All right. And one of the hearings that you were going to, you were standing next to Anna?

[02:30:26] Speaker 06:

I was sitting next to Anna.

[02:30:29] Speaker 43:

That's correct.

[02:30:34] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:30:35] Speaker 43:

That's correct. Yes, that's correct. Yes, that's correct.

[02:30:52] Speaker 06:

It was a very tense moment just before the judge's declaration. Okay.

[02:30:59] Speaker 44:

Yeah. And so you were being a good friend.

[02:31:02] Speaker 06:

I believe so.

[02:31:03] Speaker 44:

Okay. And let me just switch gears for a moment. Um, I think you've already kind of said it, but Mr. Waltz was never jealous of your relationship with Anna.

[02:31:15] Speaker 06:

I don't believe so.

[02:31:16] Speaker 44:

She never said that no. I'll see at the side of the bench.

[02:33:36] Speaker 49:

Thank you. .

[02:34:52] UNKNOWN:

.

[02:36:12] Speaker 44:

At this hearing, when you were there to support your friends, I was asking you about when you were sitting there holding Anna's hand. And you had told us that Brian's mother, Diana, was there at the same time?

[02:36:27] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[02:36:27] Speaker 44:

And was she sitting with you?

[02:36:30] Speaker 06:

She was sitting, that I recall, at the end of that row near the aisle.

[02:36:40] Speaker 44:

OK.

[02:36:42] Speaker 43:

You had a conversation with Ana about Diana's observations of you holding her hand that day at her husband's hearing.

[02:36:51] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[02:36:54] Speaker 44:

And Ana informed you that Diana was upset that you were holding her hand.

[02:37:01] Speaker 32:

That's correct. Sustained. The answer's stricken.

[02:37:09] Speaker 44:

Throughout the time, the 2020 through 2022, you had a chance again to spend a lot of time with Mr. and Mrs. Walsh.

[02:37:20] Speaker 05:

That's correct.

[02:37:21] Speaker 44:

And you talked to Anna a lot about her relationship and her marriage and being a mother. Yeah. And during those conversations and your observations, Anna told you that Brian wasn't the jealous type.

[02:37:40] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:37:42] Speaker 44:

And at some point, while Anna was working for you, she confessed that she had a crush on you.

[02:37:55] Speaker 06:

She said that, yeah, maybe. I don't recall specifically those words coming out.

[02:38:02] Speaker 44:

Looking at a copy of your interview from January of 2023 helped refresh your memory.

[02:38:13] Speaker 38:

Your Honor may I approach?

[02:38:14] Speaker 32:

You may.

[02:38:25] Speaker 26:

Page 53.

[02:38:38] Speaker 44:

Glad to hear it. just to recognize it's the beginning of your statement.

[02:39:15] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[02:39:20] Speaker 05:

Yeah.

[02:39:20] Speaker 44:

And I'm just going to refer you. And you can just read to yourself and take as much time as you need. Sure. And just look up at me when you're done.

[02:39:28] Speaker 06:

For sure. Yeah. From the top, from the top of the page?

[02:39:34] Speaker 44:

Until the bottom, until.

[02:39:35] Speaker 06:

Sure.

[02:39:42] Speaker 05:

So we actually started.

[02:39:43] Speaker 40:

Just read to yourself and look up when you're done.

[02:39:46] Speaker 05:

Oh, I see, okay, okay. That's it.

[02:41:01] Speaker 44:

I'm just going to come take that back. Does reviewing that portion of your statement refresh your memory as to whether Anna had told you that she had a crush on you?

[02:41:12] Speaker 20:

I object to this line question, Your Honor.

[02:41:15] Speaker 32:

You can answer it. If it refreshes his memory, it does.

[02:41:18] Speaker 06:

I don't recall Anna telling me that she had a crush on me.

[02:41:24] UNKNOWN:

OK.

[02:41:25] Speaker 44:

When you were working together and Anna was there, you had mentioned that you had other people working with you and for you.

[02:41:31] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:41:32] Speaker 44:

And at some point, you developed a close relationship with another female coworker.

[02:41:38] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:41:39] Speaker 44:

And I'm assuming it became romantic.

[02:41:41] Speaker 07:

Objection.

[02:41:42] Speaker 44:

Sustained. So you don't have any memory of Anna Walsh telling you that at some point, she was a little jealous of that coworker and had a crush.

[02:41:53] Speaker 02:

Objection.

[02:41:54] Speaker 44:

Sustained. She developed feelings for you. Sustained. Anna Walsh told you that she told her husband that she had a crush on you.

[02:42:09] Speaker 32:

I'll see you at the side of the bench.

[02:43:46] UNKNOWN:

you

[02:44:18] Speaker 49:

Thank you.

[02:45:18] Speaker 44:

You had mentioned that when Ana stopped working for you, she, you guys still stayed in touch.

[02:45:24] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:45:25] Speaker 44:

So it wasn't an everyday type of thing, but you would still talk and text.

[02:45:29] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:45:30] Speaker 44:

And she started working in DC for Tishman Spire in February or March of 2022.

[02:45:36] Speaker 06:

Thereabouts, but there was some overlap when she was still taking care of business for me, because that's the kind of human being and employee she was.

[02:45:50] Speaker 44:

And during the time that she was working both jobs, was she living in DC or was she still in Boston when she was doing that?

[02:45:59] Speaker 06:

I believe she was coming and going from DC at that time.

[02:46:02] Speaker 44:

Okay. And after she left and you would speak, would it be fair that she would also consult you about professional decisions, strategies, what to do?

[02:46:12] Speaker 06:

We would talk about that. We would talk about things, yeah.

[02:46:17] Speaker 44:

Okay. And you would also ask her for her advice? Sure. And this is a person that you would consider a confidant? A confidant?

[02:46:25] Speaker 07:

A confidant, sure. Okay. Absolutely.

[02:46:28] Speaker 44:

And obviously, she was one of yours and you were one of hers.

[02:46:33] Speaker 06:

That's correct. Often I've called her the sister I never had.

[02:46:36] Speaker 44:

Okay.

[02:46:36] Speaker 06:

One of the sisters I never had.

[02:46:38] Speaker 46:

Okay.

[02:46:39] Speaker 06:

Yeah. She was an exceptional human being.

[02:46:45] Speaker 41:

Thank you.

[02:46:46] Speaker 06:

Yeah.

[02:46:54] Speaker 44:

You had told us a little bit about a conversation on the 29th that you had with her? Yes. And you had said that being apart and going back and forth was hard on the family. It was hard on her.

[02:47:07] Speaker 06:

That's what I recall.

[02:47:09] Speaker 44:

Okay. And you had told us that in the winter of 2022 that Ana was making about $300,000 at her new job.

[02:47:19] Speaker 06:

With with bonus. That's what I was told. I didn't know about it at the time, but it came up in conversation that night on December 31st.

[02:47:27] Speaker 44:

OK, and you also told us Mr. Walsh was making about 50 or 60 grand a year.

[02:47:33] Speaker 06:

That's what I was told. That's what I remember.

[02:47:35] Speaker 44:

And he also was interested in participating in investing in small businesses.

[02:47:42] Speaker 07:

Correct.

[02:48:01] Speaker 44:

On the phone call on the 29th, you had said that Anna invited you over for New Year's.

[02:48:08] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:48:09] Speaker 44:

And I think you said it that she knew you, that you would probably just be at home not doing anything.

[02:48:15] Speaker 07:

That is correct.

[02:48:16] Speaker 44:

And on that phone call, she didn't say, let me check with Brian first.

[02:48:24] Speaker 06:

I don't recall.

[02:48:25] Speaker 44:

All right. Was Brian on the phone with her?

[02:48:27] Speaker 06:

No.

[02:48:28] Speaker 44:

Did she say? Well, I don't know.

[02:48:30] Speaker 06:

No, no, Brian was not on the phone with her.

[02:48:33] Speaker 44:

No, absolutely. And this was to come to her home and spend time with her husband and their three children.

[02:48:37] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[02:48:38] Speaker 44:

And I think you had said earlier today that you had spent another New Year's Eve with them.

[02:48:42] Speaker 06:

That is correct.

[02:48:43] Speaker 44:

Was that the one right preceding this one or another one?

[02:48:46] Speaker 06:

I think it was two New Year's before. So I think there was one in between where I did not spend the New Year's with them.

[02:48:55] Speaker 44:

And that prior New Year's, was that out somewhere or was that at their home?

[02:48:58] Speaker 06:

It was out. It was out at a restaurant.

[02:49:01] Speaker 44:

Okay. Yeah. I think you had said that during this call she was upbeat. Well, let me back up. You had called to tell her that she had just sold a property, right?

[02:49:23] Speaker 06:

That's correct. The purpose of my call was to congratulate her on the fact that she was going to do this 1031 exchange program and reinvest and grow financially, but also to catch up with her, also to hear her voice and see how she's doing.

[02:49:38] Speaker 44:

Okay. So let me just talk to you a little bit about the tax 1030 that you just described. She had owned a property in Revere.

[02:49:49] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:49:49] Speaker 44:

And you helped sell her. You helped sell it.

[02:49:53] Speaker 06:

Well, yes. Technically, yes, my team did. But I wasn't directly involved in the sale. My teammate handled it all. So I wasn't privy to the day-to-day of the sale. And that's actually why I called her at the end. I said, well, jeez, we accomplished something here. OK.

[02:50:13] Speaker 44:

So let me just ask you a little bit more. You explained that with this process, instead of taking the proceeds, you can just roll it right into another property?

[02:50:23] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:50:24] Speaker 44:

What were the proceeds on the sale from this revere house?

[02:50:27] Speaker 06:

I do not remember.

[02:50:29] Speaker 44:

Was it over 50? Was it a million, roughly?

[02:50:32] Speaker 06:

No, it was a smaller condo. It certainly wouldn't have been a million. No, it wasn't. It was several hundred thousand dollars.

[02:50:40] Speaker 44:

OK. And so instead of taking those proceeds, on December 29th of 2022, the decision was made to roll it into another property.

[02:50:50] Speaker 06:

That's correct. And she would have had 45 days to declare another property or another two or three properties up to three properties and would have 180 days to close on one, two or three of them.

[02:51:02] Speaker 46:

Okay.

[02:51:02] Speaker 06:

To satisfy the requirements of the program.

[02:51:06] Speaker 46:

Okay.

[02:51:10] Speaker 44:

You mentioned a name on direct examination I'd like to talk to you a little bit about. You use the name Will or William Fastow.

[02:51:19] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:51:20] Speaker 44:

And in 2022 you had known Will for about 20 years?

[02:51:28] Speaker 06:

Thereabouts, yes.

[02:51:29] Speaker 44:

And you guys were both in real estate and that's how you met him?

[02:51:32] Speaker 06:

That's correct. He was in real estate in Boston first and then DC. Okay.

[02:51:37] Speaker 44:

And when Brian and Ana were looking to relocate to Washington DC for her job, they wanted to buy a family home down there.

[02:51:45] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:51:45] Speaker 44:

And you hooked both of them up with Will, the realtor.

[02:51:48] Speaker 07:

That is correct.

[02:51:49] Speaker 44:

And would it also be fair that it would be nice for Ana to have a personal and a friend down there going down to DC with no one else at the time?

[02:51:57] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:51:58] Speaker 44:

And again, you had told us that she was looking into investing in more real estate as investment properties.

[02:52:04] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:52:05] Speaker 44:

And during this process, Brian Walsh and Will Fastow really just had a professional relationship, no friendship.

[02:52:18] Speaker 06:

I don't know what kind of relationship they had. I'm not privy to the details of their relationship.

[02:52:24] Speaker 44:

OK.

[02:52:26] Speaker 06:

But through your conversation- You're talking about Brian Walsh, correct? Yes. Brian Walsh and Will Fastow. Yes. I do not, I'm not privy to the, to the conversations they had or- Yeah.

[02:52:35] Speaker 44:

Okay. But you knew that you would introduce both Mr. Walsh and Anna to Will for the purpose of finding a family home.

[02:52:42] Speaker 06:

As far as I'm concerned, I had introduced the family, the Walsh family- Thank you. To Will Fastow.

[02:52:48] Speaker 44:

Okay. And at some point Anna told you that she had become good friends with Will Fastow.

[02:52:55] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:52:56] Speaker 44:

And I think you told us a little bit about a phone call you had with her on December 29th.

[02:53:04] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:53:06] Speaker 44:

Anna Walsh never told you that she was romantically involved with Will Fastow? No. She never told you that she was going to leave Mr. Walsh for Will Fastow?

[02:53:17] Speaker 02:

No.

[02:53:18] Speaker 44:

And she never told you that she was, that she had more than plutonic feelings for Mr. Fastow?

[02:53:26] Speaker 06:

Not particularly, but she, well, she was, I mean, emotions are complex. I knew they had gotten close. Okay. But she never told me that she had a relationship with Will Fastow.

[02:53:43] Speaker 44:

Okay.

[02:53:44] Speaker 06:

Yeah.

[02:53:45] Speaker 44:

I just want to return to her relationship.

[02:53:49] Speaker 03:

That I can recall.

[02:53:51] Speaker 44:

Okay. I'm just going to return to Anna and Brian's relationship for a few minutes. You had told us that you spent time with them both together as a family.

[02:54:01] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:54:02] Speaker 44:

And you also spent time with them individually without the other one.

[02:54:06] Speaker 07:

That is correct.

[02:54:07] Speaker 44:

And when you spent time with them together, you never really saw them argue.

[02:54:26] Speaker 06:

I don't recall having seen them argue.

[02:54:29] Speaker 44:

And they were a couple that you've described as in sync with each other.

[02:54:35] Speaker 06:

I would say so. I always thought that there was a lot of love between them and that she was very much in love with Brian.

[02:54:50] Speaker 44:

Sometimes each one would come to you individually if they had any disagreements with each other, though. You were their friend collectively and independently.

[02:55:00] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:55:01] Speaker 44:

And sometimes Anna would confide in you.

[02:55:03] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:55:05] Speaker 44:

And sometimes Brian would confide in you.

[02:55:07] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:55:09] Speaker 44:

And you obviously would keep their confidences because you were their friend individually and collectively.

[02:55:14] Speaker 05:

That is correct.

[02:55:19] Speaker 44:

And as you told us that you introduced the family to Will Fastow. Yes?

[02:55:25] Speaker 06:

Yes.

[02:55:26] Speaker 44:

So Mr. Walsh knew that you were friends with Will Fastow?

[02:55:32] Speaker 06:

I would assume so.

[02:55:33] Speaker 44:

Okay. And at no time did you, were you ever, at no time did Brian Walsh ever pepper you with questions? Objection. Disdained. I want to talk to you a little bit more about New Year's Eve. Earlier that day, did you exchange some text messages with Anna Walsh to confirm that you were coming over that night?

[02:56:03] Speaker 06:

I did.

[02:56:03] Speaker 44:

And you were looking forward to spending time over there?

[02:56:06] Speaker 06:

Very much so.

[02:56:07] Speaker 44:

Looking forward to hopefully seeing the kids?

[02:56:09] Speaker 06:

Yes.

[02:56:10] Speaker 44:

Looking forward to seeing Anna?

[02:56:12] Speaker 07:

Yes.

[02:56:12] Speaker 44:

And looking forward to seeing Brian?

[02:56:14] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:56:15] Speaker 44:

And I think you told us that when you first arrived, that even as you're pulling in the driveway, Amit is running towards you, no coat on, and just throws herself in your arms. That's correct. And you were excited to see her.

[02:56:27] Speaker 05:

Yes.

[02:56:28] Speaker 44:

And she was obviously excited to see you.

[02:56:31] Speaker 05:

Yes.

[02:56:32] Speaker 46:

And you said it was cold out.

[02:56:33] Speaker 04:

Yes.

[02:56:34] Speaker 46:

And you guys were laughing as she's running towards you.

[02:56:37] Speaker 04:

Yes.

[02:56:38] Speaker 46:

And then you walk in the house together.

[02:56:40] Speaker 04:

That's correct.

[02:56:41] Speaker 46:

And are you walking hand-in-hand and talking because you haven't seen each other in a while? Well, you said she ushered you into the house.

[02:56:51] Speaker 06:

That's correct. She was receiving a guest into the house. Okay.

[02:56:55] UNKNOWN:

Was she excited to see you?

[02:56:56] Speaker 06:

Was she holding onto your arm? She was very excited to see me. We gave each other a hug. Okay. And then we walked into the house.

[02:57:03] Speaker 46:

And when you walked into the house, you went into the kitchen and Mr. Walsh was there.

[02:57:07] Speaker 06:

That's correct. I don't remember whether Brian was at the door, was in the kitchen. He was there.

[02:57:15] Speaker 40:

Absolutely.

[02:57:19] Speaker 46:

Initially, yes.

[02:57:37] Speaker 44:

Is this correct, as I'm showing everyone exhibit number three, that this was the Walsh family kitchen in Cohasset on December 31st?

[02:57:46] Speaker 06:

Yes.

[02:57:47] Speaker 44:

And we see some stools at the kitchen table. You and Ana were sitting next to each other?

[02:57:51] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:57:52] Speaker 44:

And am I correct that Mr. Walsh was cooking for everyone?

[02:57:58] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[02:57:59] Speaker 44:

And so the stove and oven is to the right there of the table?

[02:58:06] Speaker 06:

Yes.

[02:58:07] Speaker 44:

Okay. And when you first got there, the kids were asleep.

[02:58:11] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[02:58:11] Speaker 44:

Okay. And when you first got there, Mr. Walsh is cooking food.

[02:58:18] Speaker 06:

Yes. Preparing. Yeah. Cooking.

[02:58:21] Speaker 44:

Yeah. No, I don't want to cut you off.

[02:58:22] Speaker 06:

Sure. Preparing, cooking. Yeah.

[02:58:25] Speaker 44:

And Anna and Brian are getting you some champagne.

[02:58:28] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[02:58:29] Speaker 44:

And everyone's toasting to the new year.

[02:58:32] Speaker 06:

Yes.

[02:58:33] Speaker 44:

Okay. And I think you've already said this, but the atmosphere was jovial.

[02:58:37] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[02:58:38] Speaker 44:

That's true. That's true. That's correct. Yes. And as you're sitting at that kitchen table, you're having conversations about investment properties.

[02:59:12] Speaker 06:

We were.

[02:59:13] Speaker 44:

You're having conversations about book reviews and what books everyone should read.

[02:59:19] Speaker 06:

Yes.

[02:59:20] Speaker 44:

And you told us that Ana is texting people. You said it's New Year's Eve, so she's getting texts, she's sending texts.

[02:59:26] Speaker 05:

Yes.

[02:59:27] Speaker 44:

And as you're sitting at that table, she's snapping pictures with just the two of you.

[02:59:37] Speaker 06:

meaning just the two of us, meaning Anna and I. I do recall, I mean, I have received a photo of the three of us with Anna and their oldest son.

[02:59:52] Speaker 44:

A selfie, yeah. She has her phone out, she's taking pictures, it's just the two of you, just Anna and Jim to memorialize the night. It's a selfie.

[03:00:02] Speaker 06:

Oh, it's the two, I see. Well, the two of us and Brian.

[03:00:06] Speaker 44:

All three of you together.

[03:00:07] Speaker 06:

All three of us together, correct.

[03:00:09] Speaker 44:

And in that picture, you're smiling, you're embracing each other.

[03:00:12] Speaker 04:

Yes.

[03:00:14] Speaker 44:

And Brian's preparing food and he's serving you all the food he's making, the different dishes, right?

[03:00:20] Speaker 04:

Yes.

[03:00:21] Speaker 44:

And he's serving it to his wife, Anna.

[03:00:24] Speaker 04:

Yes.

[03:00:24] Speaker 44:

And they're talking to each other during the night.

[03:00:27] Speaker 04:

Yes, they are.

[03:00:27] Speaker 44:

And they're laughing with each other during the night.

[03:00:30] Speaker 06:

Yes.

[03:00:30] Speaker 44:

And they're taking pictures with each other during the night.

[03:00:35] Speaker 06:

I don't know if they were taking pictures with each other during the night. I don't recall.

[03:00:40] Speaker 43:

But there was the picture of the three of you embracing and smiling.

[03:00:44] Speaker 06:

That's the three of us with Brian. Was that what you're asking? Was there a picture of Anna, Brian, and myself that night? I don't recall. I recall one picture, and that's with Anna and their oldest son. That was Tom. OK. Correct.

[03:01:00] Speaker 44:

I want to talk to you a little bit more about the conversations that you were having that night. Sure. At some point, Ana showed you a new ring that she had. It was a diamond ring.

[03:01:14] Speaker 07:

That is correct.

[03:01:14] Speaker 44:

And it was quite large.

[03:01:19] Speaker 06:

They said it was a valuable ring, yeah.

[03:01:22] Speaker 44:

And I believe Ana told you that it was worth several hundred thousand dollars?

[03:01:32] Speaker 32:

I think it would be a nice time for you to take your morning break. You may be seated, everyone else. Yes. He's gone.

[03:02:49] Speaker 20:

Thank you, Your Honor. I'm not seeing the relevance of going down this road.

[03:02:56] Speaker 32:

An answer for her, for counsel. Go ahead.

[03:03:02] Speaker 44:

Your honor, the government has represented to this jury that one of the motives was financial.

[03:03:08] Speaker 32:

All right. How much longer will this witness you expect?

[03:03:14] Speaker 44:

Myself? Yes. I can't imagine it goes more than 15 minutes.

[03:03:20] Speaker 32:

All right. I won't hold you to it. OK. Keepers next? Or probation officer? Alright, have a good break. Thank you.

[03:04:17] UNKNOWN:

. . Thank you. . . Thank you. Thank you. . . Thank you. Okay. . . you . . . . . I'm sorry. . . Thank you.

[03:29:39] Speaker 23:

You are unmuted.

[03:30:31] Speaker 09:

The witness back on the stand

[03:31:03] Speaker 44:

you keep your voice up for me please thank you yes thank you you may proceed thank you honor good afternoon sir good afternoon just gonna pick up a little bit where we left off during the night that you were describing at one point Anna was showing you yes and she was happy about it that's correct and she was telling you that Brian had got her this right that's correct and he was smiling yes and you told us that during the night because it's New Year's Eve and is texting people and she's getting text messages while you guys are in that kitchen. That's correct. Could I please have exhibit three again? Thank you. And during the time that you were there, am I correct that it was about five hours you spent that night? I think you said 830 to 1130.

[03:31:47] Speaker 07:

Roughly four to five hours. Okay.

[03:31:53] Speaker 44:

And you weren't drunk, right? No. They weren't drunk? No. And during the night there are, you had mentioned there was food being served, conversations about the future, and Anna was getting text messages from people, and she was sending text messages to people.

[03:32:18] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[03:32:19] Speaker 44:

And while you're sitting in that kitchen, the three of you, at some point she says, let's send a picture to Will.

[03:32:26] Speaker 06:

I believe that's what she said. I'm not 100% sure. I believe that's what she said. I'm not sure.

[03:32:33] Speaker 44:

And after that, you stayed for quite a bit after that.

[03:32:39] Speaker 06:

Again, I don't remember at what part of the evening that... Well, actually, I do, because I would have, because this would have been exactly when their oldest son, when their oldest son was awake. So it would have been towards the beginning. That's correct.

[03:32:59] Speaker 44:

Okay. Yeah. And so you stayed for several hours after that, right?

[03:33:04] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[03:33:05] Speaker 40:

And during the night, everyone continued to be jovial, I believe you described.

[03:33:10] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[03:33:11] Speaker 44:

Drinking champagne.

[03:33:13] Speaker 06:

That's right.

[03:33:14] Speaker 44:

Laughing with each other.

[03:33:15] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[03:33:18] Speaker 44:

And I think you had told us on direct that at some point, Brian had told you that he had lost his phone.

[03:33:24] Speaker 06:

That he had misplaced his phone.

[03:33:25] Speaker 44:

Misplaced his phone. And I think you had said that he told you he was liberated not to have it.

[03:33:31] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[03:33:31] Speaker 44:

And he was kind of laughing about how free it felt not to be on a cell phone.

[03:33:36] Speaker 06:

That was the gist of it, correct.

[03:33:47] Speaker 44:

At some point on January 4th, you had a conversation with Brian over the phone?

[03:33:55] Speaker 06:

Was that a Wednesday?

[03:33:57] Speaker 44:

I don't have a calendar out, but I think you had said I appreciate everyone quickly.

[03:34:01] Speaker 06:

So the first was a Sunday. Yes, on Wednesday. I did. Yes. Yes, I received a call from Brian.

[03:34:08] Speaker 44:

And on that call, you had just seen them at about 1 1 30 on New Year's Eve. So about not even four days before.

[03:34:15] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[03:34:16] Speaker 44:

And he had told you that He hadn't spoken to her in several days and that she was missing.

[03:34:23] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[03:34:24] Speaker 44:

And I think you told us on direct that you were in shock. It didn't make sense to you.

[03:34:29] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[03:34:30] Speaker 44:

That you were just with them.

[03:34:33] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[03:34:34] Speaker 44:

And you said to Brian, did you guys have an argument? Did you have a disagreement? Right?

[03:34:40] Speaker 06:

I did.

[03:34:40] Speaker 44:

And you asked him that repeatedly.

[03:34:44] Speaker 06:

I don't know if I asked him that repeatedly. I did ask him that question.

[03:34:48] Speaker 41:

And he said to you, no. Does it look like an argument?

[03:34:53] Speaker 46:

You were there.

[03:34:53] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[03:34:55] Speaker 46:

Because it didn't make sense to you that you haven't spoken in days, right?

[03:35:01] Speaker 06:

That's correct. And it also didn't make sense to me that she would leave shortly after I left. There was, yeah.

[03:35:08] Speaker 44:

And so given that, it didn't make sense to you. You were there until 1.30. They weren't arguing.

[03:35:16] Speaker 07:

They weren't arguing, no.

[03:35:17] Speaker 44:

You said the night was joyful.

[03:35:19] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[03:35:21] Speaker 44:

They were happy.

[03:35:22] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[03:35:23] Speaker 44:

And from everything you saw and what you've told us, they were in love.

[03:35:29] Speaker 06:

Well, they were happy is a loaded statement. I mean, they seemed happy that night, but people are complex. So I want to make sure that I answer that question truthfully. So I did know a couple of days in advance that she. Thank you. Sure. 25 years now.

[03:35:51] Speaker 44:

25 years. So you're a salesperson, right? In a sense, one of the aspects of your job is to sell properties, right?

[03:35:59] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[03:36:00] Speaker 44:

And would you say that one of your greatest assets is to be able to read people?

[03:36:06] Speaker 06:

That's true. To listen, to understand, yes.

[03:36:09] Speaker 44:

I think you just said people are complex.

[03:36:11] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[03:36:11] Speaker 44:

And so you and your professional job, part of it is to kind of be able to understand those complexities.

[03:36:17] Speaker 04:

Yes.

[03:36:18] Speaker 44:

to see if someone is maybe putting on a brave face or holding back, right? Sure. And you had known Anna and Brian Walsh as a married couple for almost three years at that point, right?

[03:36:30] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[03:36:31] Speaker 44:

And you have spent time with them together. You said that their family was like your family, right?

[03:36:38] Speaker 40:

Sure. And you had spent time with Brian

[03:36:40] Speaker 06:

I hadn't seen Brian in months at that point, and I hadn't also only seen Ana physically. I hadn't seen Ana physically in months.

[03:36:49] Speaker 44:

Okay, but in the past, in those times that you have described them as family, as close friends, you had spent time with Brian Walsh just one-on-one.

[03:36:56] Speaker 05:

Yes, I had.

[03:36:57] Speaker 44:

You had spent time with Ana just one-on-one. That's correct. She worked for you, and you described that you would be in touch all day, every day when she was working for you, right?

[03:37:07] Speaker 06:

I can't say it was every single day.

[03:37:09] Speaker 44:

Sure, sure. That's correct. That's correct. That's correct.

[03:37:36] Speaker 06:

I'm not sure that I would describe it as as as hopeful for the new year Specifically if you have to ask me specifically as to what the mood was whether she was because I had heard a couple days prior Sure Yes, we did. Yes, we did. And that's where the complexity comes into play. I cannot know what was going on in their hearts and minds. Yeah. Of course. Thank you.

[03:38:10] Speaker 40:

Sure. Yeah, there was a good mood that night.

[03:38:19] Speaker 44:

I did not.

[03:38:29] Speaker 06:

Yes, I did.

[03:38:30] Speaker 44:

And at one point, Thomas came downstairs and they didn't shoot him back up to bed. It was happy to have their son together with you.

[03:38:37] Speaker 06:

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

[03:38:39] Speaker 40:

And when Ryan was cooking for you, he was even putting a Turkish flair on some of the foods to specifically for you, right?

[03:38:46] Speaker 06:

That's correct. I remember him saying that. Yeah.

[03:38:49] Speaker 40:

And at 1 1.30 when you left, they weren't even telling you to leave.

[03:38:54] Speaker 44:

You just realized it was late and you should go.

[03:38:56] Speaker 06:

That is also correct.

[03:38:59] Speaker 44:

So when you heard that Brian was telling you that he hadn't spoken to his wife in three days, that did not make sense to you.

[03:39:08] Speaker 02:

It did not.

[03:39:09] Speaker 44:

Because when you left at 1, 1.30 in the morning, it was a joyful, happy occasion. I'm using your word. It was a joyful, happy occasion on New Year's Eve of January 31st, 2022.

[03:39:27] Speaker 06:

I didn't understand how Anna could be missing and how we did not know about this since the first of the, of the, of the year. It had been three days and our community had not been correct. We had not known about this for three days. I did not understand. And, uh, and the tone of voice was not panicked.

[03:39:50] Speaker 44:

Yes, thank you.

[03:39:52] Speaker 06:

Please.

[03:39:53] Speaker 44:

When you left the house of your good friends on January 31st, excuse me, January 1st now at 1, 1.30 in the morning, the moon was joyful and happy.

[03:40:04] Speaker 09:

Yes. Redirect. I think I'll be briefed, Your Honor. Sir, you said you had heard a couple days prior.

[03:40:18] Speaker 16:

Had you heard on a couple days prior? when you were saying about people being complex?

[03:40:25] Speaker 44:

Your Honor, I apologize. I could be just losing my hearing. I can't hear Mr. Conner.

[03:40:29] Speaker 20:

I'm talking into my shoulder, so that's my fault. Sir, when you were saying people are complex and you have heard a couple days prior, are you referring to your conversation with Anna a couple days prior?

[03:40:42] Speaker 04:

Yes, I was. I am.

[03:40:44] Speaker 20:

What is it that you heard in your conversation a couple days prior that makes you say that people are complex?

[03:40:52] Speaker 06:

that they had marital problems.

[03:40:54] Speaker 38:

Objection moved to strike the characterization.

[03:40:57] Speaker 32:

All right. And I'm going to remind you, sir, I'm going to strike the marital problems of characterization. But you can, without characterizing, you can discuss what you recall her saying, even if you don't remember the exact words.

[03:41:13] Speaker 07:

Sure. Well, I recall.

[03:41:14] Speaker 32:

I'll restate the question again.

[03:41:16] Speaker 20:

Sure. Yeah. Understanding what her honor said as far as what Anna was saying What is it that you heard in that conversation that you just said that people are complex?

[03:41:31] Speaker 06:

Well, if I may, may I explain?

[03:41:35] Speaker 20:

I think you can't, sir. I think you have to stay with just what Anna said to you. Sure. State what Anna said to you. If you can't, that's okay. But if you can state what Anna said to you, that's my question.

[03:41:47] Speaker 06:

On the 29th, when we had that phone conversation?

[03:41:50] Speaker 05:

Yes, sir.

[03:41:54] Speaker 06:

She told me that there were cracks in the relationships. And I don't know which words. She may have used precisely those words. She may have used other words.

[03:42:05] Speaker 32:

I'll hear you at the sidebar before I make any ruling on that.

[03:42:41] Speaker 49:

. . .

[03:44:06] UNKNOWN:

.

[03:44:58] Speaker 49:

Thank you. .

[03:45:50] UNKNOWN:

.

[03:46:40] Speaker 32:

Let's try that question again.

[03:46:42] Speaker 20:

So, sir, I know it's been three years. It has been. To the best of your recollection, what I'm asking you is on that December 29th conversation, to the best of your recollection, what did Anna Walsh say to you that led you to say that people are

[03:47:10] Speaker 06:

The complexity I'm referring to is the fact that on the 29th, she gave me information. I cannot recall the exact words. She gave me information that she was having problems in her marriage with Brian.

[03:47:27] Speaker 30:

To the best of your recollection, what did she say?

[03:47:39] Speaker 06:

Well, again, it's been three years, Your Honor.

[03:47:41] Speaker 31:

If you have a recollection, you do. And if you don't, sir, that's fine, too.

[03:47:46] Speaker 06:

Again, I remember what was discussed at the conversation. I just don't remember the exact words. I did give my testimony when it was very fresh.

[03:47:54] Speaker 20:

And I know we're all jumping in the middle. It's just because we want to make sure we get it right. OK. So you had the conversation with Anna on the 29th.

[03:48:07] Speaker 51:

That's correct.

[03:48:08] Speaker 20:

Do you remember what she said? If you don't, you don't, it's okay. Do you remember what she said that makes you think that people are complex?

[03:48:20] Speaker 06:

Well, it's not what she said that night that makes me think that people are complex. I know people are complex.

[03:48:24] Speaker 32:

I'll strike the end, redirect the witness to the timeframe.

[03:48:29] Speaker 20:

So just on December 29th, what did she say to you? as far as your concerns about her being...

[03:48:37] Speaker 06:

I don't recall the exact words.

[03:48:39] Speaker 20:

Okay, that's it. Thank you. Thank you. Nothing further, Your Honor.

[03:48:42] Speaker 08:

Thank you. Any recross?

[03:48:43] Speaker 28:

No, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mutlow.

[03:48:46] Speaker 08:

Thank you. Thank you very much.

[03:48:53] Speaker 11:

Thank you very much.

[03:49:09] Speaker 32:

The Commonwealth may call its next witness.

[03:49:12] Speaker 35:

The Commonwealth would call Marlene Ramdahal.

[03:49:34] Speaker 26:

You can just follow me, please. Just take your time.

[03:49:40] Speaker 13:

Just watch your step.

[03:49:53] Speaker 36:

You may proceed.

[03:49:55] Speaker 35:

Your honor. Could you please state your name for the record?

[03:49:59] Speaker 25:

Good afternoon, Marlene Ramdahal.

[03:50:01] Speaker 35:

And can you please spell your name for the record?

[03:50:03] Speaker 25:

Yes, Marlene, M-A-R-L-E-N-N-Y. Last name, R-A-M-D-E-H-A-L. And what is your occupation, ma'am? I am a senior U.S. probation officer. And what is your jurisdiction?

[03:50:17] Speaker 35:

The District of Massachusetts. Where is your office located? In Totten. And how long have you been a federal probation officer? Approximately 12 years. Are you familiar with Brian Walsh? I am. And how long have you known Mr. Walsh? Since November of 2021. And that's when you first met him? Yes. And how often did you see him?

[03:50:44] Speaker 25:

Approximately once every 60 days. And how did you see him? At his residence or at my office.

[03:50:53] Speaker 35:

And can you please identify him for the record? Mr. Walsh in the black sweater. Thank you. Your honor, might the record reflect that the witness has identified the defendant?

[03:51:02] Speaker 29:

The record will so reflect.

[03:51:05] Speaker 35:

In January of 2023 and December of 2022, was Mr. Walsh the defendant subject to conditions set by a federal district court? He was. And what were those conditions?

[03:51:20] Speaker 25:

He was subject to a number of conditions to include home confinement, which limited his movement in the community.

[03:51:30] Speaker 35:

When was the defendant authorized to leave his home?

[03:51:34] Speaker 25:

He was authorized to leave his residence with a pre-scheduled pass so he would have to ask permission before leaving his home.

[03:51:43] Speaker 35:

Did he have set windows that he was allowed to leave? He did. And what was he required to do before leaving his home?

[03:51:54] Speaker 25:

Prior to leaving his residence, he would have to have an approved schedule.

[03:51:59] Speaker 35:

And who would approve that schedule? I would. Where was he allowed to go?

[03:52:06] Speaker 25:

A client on the home confinement program is only allowed to leave the resident for essential necessities. So things such as employment, education, religion, treatment, attorney visits, court-appointed activities. He was also allowed to do things such as grocery shop, banking, grooming, things of that nature. He also had permission to do things with his children and his mother.

[03:52:36] Speaker 35:

So what did he need to do as far as specifying where he would go?

[03:52:41] Speaker 25:

So on Thursdays, he was to submit schedules to me with what essential necessities would be required for the following week. And how would he do that? He would send me an email. And what email did he use? BRW at tensilconsulting.com. What permission did he have to leave the state? He did not have permission to leave the state.

[03:53:18] Speaker 35:

You said that he was allowed to go for necessities. Is a restaurant considered a necessity? No, it is not. What did he have to do if he wanted to deviate from the schedule that he had submitted on Thursdays, I believe you said?

[03:53:39] Speaker 25:

Correct. Yeah, if there was a change to the schedule, he would be required to submit a new schedule request. And how would he do that? Again, via email. And who would he do that to? Myself.

[03:54:07] Speaker 35:

So I want to ask you about Friday, January 6th of 2023. Did you see the defendant that day in person? I did. And what contact did you receive from him requesting permission for his window for the following week?

[03:54:27] Speaker 25:

On January 6th, Mr. Walsh submitted a schedule for Wednesday the 11th. He requested a haircut appointment from 1.30 to 3.15. He also requested a pass for the 12th to meet with his probate attorney from 10.30 to 3.15.

[03:54:48] Speaker 35:

What contact did you have from the defendant on January 5th of 2023?

[03:54:55] Speaker 25:

On January 5th, Mr. Walsh contacted me to inform me of law enforcement contact, which is required by his conditions of release. He also notified me that his wife Anna was missing.

[03:55:08] Speaker 35:

What was his window of release on Thursday, January 5th?

[03:55:14] Speaker 25:

On January 5th, he had a reoccurring schedule to drop off his children between 8 a.m. and 10 30 a.m. He then had a pass to assist his mother with some errands from 10 15 to 130. And then he had reoccurring schedule to pick up his children from 3 45 to 6 15. And the

[03:55:39] Speaker 35:

The morning schedule and the afternoon schedule, was that a set recurring schedule? Correct, Monday through Friday. And was the middle, the time that he was with his mother, was that also a recurring time or was that something he had just requested? He had just requested it the week prior. What was the window of release for Wednesday, January 4th?

[03:56:01] Speaker 25:

The fourth would have been drop off children from eight to 1030. Then he had a reoccurring groceries schedule from 11 to 130. And again, pick up of the children from 315 to 645. So that was all prearranged. Correct, yes.

[03:56:22] Speaker 35:

And what was the window of release on Tuesday, January 3rd?

[03:56:27] Speaker 25:

Tuesday, drop off children, 8 to 1030, pick up children, 315 to 645, and he had a reoccurring schedule as well to get his trash out, and that was from 750 to 820, I believe. In the evening? In the evening, sorry.

[03:56:46] Speaker 35:

Okay. And why did he need that for the trash?

[03:56:51] Speaker 25:

Because it wasn't on his property.

[03:56:54] Speaker 35:

Okay. And what was the window of release for Monday, January 2nd of 2023?

[03:57:03] Speaker 25:

On Monday the 2nd, he only had pick up and drop off of the children. So 8 a.m. to 10 30 a.m. and then pick up from 3 15 to 6 45.

[03:57:13] Speaker 35:

But did you receive some information about an unauthorized leave for that day? I did. And when was that? Approximately 3.53 PM. And did you speak to him? I did. And what contact did you have with him?

[03:57:34] Speaker 25:

I reached out to him to ask him about the unauthorized leave and he indicated that he was picking up his children per usual. Okay.

[03:57:43] Speaker 35:

And in fact, the 315 to 645, was that authorized for Monday, January 2nd, 2023 being a holiday?

[03:58:01] Speaker 25:

It was because there was no notification that school was not in session.

[03:58:09] Speaker 35:

And what was the window of release on Sunday, January 1st of 2023?

[03:58:15] Speaker 25:

On the 1st, he had submitted a request to return his mother home from 3 p.m. to 9 p.m. And what do you mean, return his mother home? He indicated that his mother was staying with him post-surgery and he was taking her back to her residence. And when was that window established? That would have been the week prior, so I want to say December 22nd.

[03:58:41] Speaker 35:

And where did he indicate that he would be returning his mother? To her residence. And where was that, if you know? I don't remember off the top of my head. Okay. And at that point, did he ask permission to go to a restaurant? He did not. for January 1st of 2023? He did not. And was the defendant allowed to go places if he had not cleared it with you first?

[03:59:13] Speaker 25:

He was not allowed to do any unapproved stops. I might have one moment. You may.

[03:59:26] Speaker 39:

No further questions, Your Honor.

[03:59:28] Speaker 32:

Cross exam.

[03:59:29] Speaker 14:

Yes, thank you. Good afternoon.

[03:59:32] Speaker 24:

Good afternoon.

[03:59:33] Speaker 14:

So did I hear you right that said the Mr. Walsh asked to be able to go from 3 PM to 9 PM on Sunday, January 1st? He asked that prior week of December 22nd.

[03:59:49] Speaker 22:

That is correct.

[03:59:50] Speaker 14:

And to go out to a restaurant, that would have been correct?

[03:59:56] Speaker 25:

It would need court approval. Probation does not have the authority to approve non-essential necessities.

[04:00:01] Speaker 14:

So you'd have to go through a court process. That'd take quite a while to go through the federal court process.

[04:00:07] Speaker 25:

It's a motion to the court. So it's just a documentation that needs to be submitted.

[04:00:11] Speaker 13:

But it has to be filed. It has to be decided. It has to be returned.

[04:00:15] Speaker 25:

That is correct.

[04:00:19] Speaker 14:

And there's always the chance that it wouldn't be allowed. Correct. So if somebody like Mr. Walsh wanted to take his wife out to a restaurant for New Year's Day, and the chance that he wouldn't be permitted and get permission to take his wife to a New Year's Day dinner, even if he had filed a request.

[04:00:39] Speaker 25:

There is that chance, correct.

[04:00:44] Speaker 32:

Any redirect? No redirects, thank you. The witness may step down. Thank you. Commonwealth may call its next witness.

[04:01:01] Speaker 14:

Commonwealth, I call Anthony McCracken.

[04:01:20] Speaker 26:

You saw him. We swear our firm testimony is to give him the cause down here and to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you God.

[04:01:27] Speaker 13:

I do.

[04:01:27] Speaker 26:

Thank you, sir.

[04:01:34] Speaker 13:

You may proceed. Thank you, Your Honor.

[04:01:41] Speaker 18:

Sir, could you state your name and spell your last name for the record? Sure, it's Tony Macrina, M-A-C-R-I-N-A. Where do you work, sir? Home Depot. And what do you do for Home Depot? I am a district asset protection manager.

[04:01:55] Speaker 20:

And what are your responsibilities as a district asset protection manager?

[04:02:00] Speaker 18:

We help, I help increase profitability by mitigating losses and creating a safe work environment for the associates and customers. How long have you been with Home Depot?

[04:02:15] Speaker 20:

Currently four and a half years. And how in that time you've always been a district asset protection manager? Yes. And what is your district?

[04:02:25] Speaker 18:

It's considered southeastern Mass So it's approximately 10 stores in that area. All right. Does that include Rockland?

[04:02:33] Speaker 20:

Yes. Sir, have you had the opportunity to help produce a receipt in videos to law enforcement in January 2023 in this matter? Yes. And have you had the opportunity to review both of those prior to today?

[04:02:45] Speaker 17:

I did.

[04:02:46] Speaker 20:

Sir, as far as the videos that are maintained at Home Depot, are they done in the normal course of business?

[04:02:51] Speaker 17:

Yes, they are.

[04:02:52] Speaker 20:

Are they done in good faith?

[04:02:53] Speaker 17:

Yes.

[04:02:54] Speaker 20:

And the videos, I take it they're recorded digitally? Correct. So when they're recorded, they're recorded as it's happening to a server, correct? Yes. What access do you have to the server?

[04:03:06] Speaker 18:

I remote in using a laptop or a computer. Okay. Can anyone have access to it? Just anybody who works within the asset protection department.

[04:03:17] Speaker 20:

And sir, The videos that you had a chance to review, did you look at a thumb drive and then sign the back of it?

[04:03:27] Speaker 11:

Yes.

[04:03:33] Speaker 32:

You may.

[04:03:37] Speaker 20:

Sure, I'm showing you a thumb drive. Do you see it?

[04:03:41] Speaker 18:

Yes.

[04:03:42] Speaker 20:

And do you see your initials in the back?

[04:03:44] Speaker 18:

I do.

[04:03:45] Speaker 20:

Were these the videos you had a chance to review prior to today to confirm that they were the videos you had turned over from the Store Depot on January 2nd in Rocky Yes, they were.

[04:03:57] Speaker 32:

Any objection to that? No objection. The Home Depot thumb drive. Now in evidence is 260.

[04:04:09] Speaker 20:

Your Honor, with the court's permission, may the Commonwealth publish some of the videos from the Home Depot thumb drive?

[04:04:16] Speaker 15:

Yes. Ms. Gilman, could we have

[04:04:23] Speaker 20:

the video Home Depot entering. If we could press pause. Mr. McCrudden, can you see the video on the screen? Yes. Where is this in Home Depot?

[04:04:39] Speaker 18:

This is a shot of the doorway where most customers after purchasing would walk out. So the main exit, we call this. The main exit.

[04:04:50] Speaker 20:

Now, at the bottom of the screen, there's a date and time. Are the dates and times accurate on the Home Depot videos?

[04:05:00] Speaker 10:

Yes, they are.

[04:05:01] Speaker 20:

And to be clear, this is Rockland, right? Correct. OK. Miss Goodwin, if you could press play. And Ms. Gilman, could we have pro exit purchasing? And Ms. Gilman, if you could go to 107 on this. Thank you. Sir, where is this location in Home Depot in Rockland?

[04:06:01] Speaker 18:

This is on one side of the store. We call it the pro exit. So generally this is where the lumber is purchased and it's usually a bigger space so that you can get those bigger carts through the doorway. Ms. Gilman, if you could press play.

[04:10:40] Speaker 20:

Thank you, Ms. Gilman. Your Honor, may I approach?

[04:10:58] Speaker 14:

You may.

[04:10:58] Speaker 20:

Thank you, Your Honor. Mr. McRenna, I'm showing you a document. Do you recognize that?

[04:11:08] Speaker 10:

Yes.

[04:11:09] Speaker 20:

Is that the receipt that corresponds to the video we just saw?

[04:11:13] Speaker 10:

Yes.

[04:11:14] Speaker 20:

How are you able to find a receipt that corresponds to the video?

[04:11:19] Speaker 18:

I was given an item number from the state police.

[04:11:23] Speaker 20:

And so then you look up the item number?

[04:11:25] Speaker 18:

Looked up the item number and it brings me right to this transaction. The two are tied together.

[04:11:30] Speaker 20:

And so the receipts are kept in the normal course of business?

[04:11:33] Speaker 17:

Yes.

[04:11:34] Speaker 20:

In good faith? Yes. Can you turn this over to the police in January 2023?

[04:11:38] Speaker 17:

Yes.

[04:11:38] Speaker 20:

The Commonwealth received to have the receipt from Home Depot for January 2nd as the next exhibit.

[04:11:43] Speaker 32:

Any objection? No objection. The receipt that corresponds to 260 is now in evidence as 261.

[04:11:56] Speaker 20:

May the Commonwealth publish 261?

[04:11:57] Speaker 32:

You may.

[04:11:59] Speaker 20:

Thank you.

[04:12:06] Speaker 18:

Looking at the top of it, sir, what is the address of the store? 1149 Hingham Street, Rockland, Massachusetts. And what is the significance of register three? Register three is the register number that was shown in the video where those purchases were made. And Ms. Gelman, could we scroll down to the bottom?

[04:12:30] Speaker 20:

Actually, stay right there, Ms. Gilman. Sir, on A&H baking soda, what is that?

[04:12:36] Speaker 18:

That is a 12-pound bag of baking soda. It was the one that was on the bottom of the cart. Home Depot sells 12 pounds of baking soda?

[04:12:45] Speaker 20:

Yes. And then, what is the date and the time of the transaction?

[04:12:53] Speaker 18:

The date is 1-2-2023 at 5-01-47 seconds PM. What was the amount for the transaction? The amount was $453.54. And was it cash or charge? Cash.

[04:13:11] Speaker 20:

Nothing further, Your Honor.

[04:13:16] Speaker 32:

Any cross? The witness may step down. Thank you. Commonwealth may call its next witness.

[04:13:45] Speaker 20:

Thank you. Commonwealth may call Kelly Roy, paleo logus.

[04:14:07] Speaker 26:

Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you'll give in the cause down in hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you God. Thank you. You can be seated.

[04:14:17] Speaker 21:

Take your time. Just watch your step, OK? Just give me a favor. Just keep your voice up and you speak, OK? Thank you.

[04:14:29] Speaker 32:

You may proceed.

[04:14:30] Speaker 20:

Thank you, Your Honor. Good afternoon, ma'am. Good afternoon. Could you bring that microphone a little bit closer to you? It will help keep things loud. Is that better? Much better. Could you state your name and spell your first and last name for us?

[04:14:42] Speaker 33:

Caleroy Palaiologos, K-A-L-I-R-O-I, last name P-A-L-A-I-O-L-O-G-O-S. Where do you work, ma'am? I work at Beacon Communities, more specifically, Chatham-West and the Pines. And what is Chatham West? It's a housing residential apartment complex.

[04:15:00] Speaker 20:

Where is Chatham West located? Brockton, Massachusetts. And what do you do there? I'm a property manager. And as the property manager, do you have access to their surveillance videos? Yes, sir, I do. And as far as the surveillance videos, how many cameras do they have on the exterior of their building?

[04:15:17] Speaker 33:

Approximately 25 back in 23.

[04:15:20] Speaker 20:

In January of 2023, how many units were at Chatham West?

[04:15:24] Speaker 33:

507. 507?

[04:15:25] Speaker 20:

So it's a really large complex. And what does Chatham West have for dumpsters in January 2023? About 21 dumpsters. And what access does the general public have to the dumpsters in January 2023? They're open to the public. Now, in January 2023, did you have the opportunity to produce surveillance videos to law enforcement? Yes, I did. And have you had the opportunity to review them prior to today? Yes. Have they been edited in any fashion? No, sir. And Chatham West, when they maintain their surveillance videos, done the normal course of business?

[04:16:05] Speaker 33:

I'm sorry, is that again?

[04:16:06] Speaker 20:

Sure. Do you maintain your surveillance videos in the normal course of business?

[04:16:09] Speaker 33:

Yes, I do.

[04:16:10] Speaker 20:

And in good faith?

[04:16:11] Speaker 33:

Yes.

[04:16:11] Speaker 20:

And again, you turn these over to law enforcement in January 2023?

[04:16:14] Speaker 33:

Yes. May I approach, Your Honor?

[04:16:23] Speaker 20:

You may. Ma'am, I'm showing you a thumb drive. Do you recognize it?

[04:16:26] Speaker 33:

Yes, I do.

[04:16:27] Speaker 20:

Does it have your initials on it?

[04:16:28] Speaker 33:

Yes, it does.

[04:16:29] Speaker 20:

Does this have the video that you reviewed that had you previously turned over to law enforcement?

[04:16:33] Speaker 33:

Yes, it does.

[04:16:34] Speaker 20:

The Commonwealth would seek to have the video from Chatham West on thumb drive marked as an exquisite.

[04:16:41] Speaker 32:

No objection. It will be marked and admitted into evidence now as 262.

[04:16:52] Speaker 20:

Your honor, with the court's permission, may the Commonwealth publish the video from Chatham West.

[04:16:56] Speaker 32:

You may.

[04:16:56] Speaker 20:

Thank you. Pause. Thank you, Ms. Gilman. In the top left-hand corner, what does it say as far as a date and time?

[04:17:07] Speaker 33:

January 3rd, 2023.

[04:17:09] Speaker 20:

And the time?

[04:17:10] Speaker 33:

5-11 at night.

[04:17:15] Speaker 20:

Okay. Now, with your surveillance videos, is the time accurate or can be off?

[04:17:21] Speaker 33:

It's accurate. Could be off by a minute or two, but it's accurate.

[04:17:28] Speaker 20:

Ms. Gilman, if you could press play. Ma'am, your videos, I noticed that it's not continuous. Is that all of your videos or how is that? Can you explain that process?

[04:18:03] Speaker 33:

It depends on the camera. Sometimes there's a little bit of a lag where it becomes choppy like that.

[04:18:10] Speaker 20:

So that's not abnormal? That can happen with your surveillance sometimes?

[04:18:12] Speaker 33:

Yes.

[04:18:14] Speaker 20:

Nothing further, Your Honor.

[04:18:15] Speaker 31:

Cross exam. No questions. The witness may step down. Thank you, ma'am.

[04:18:25] Speaker 32:

It would now be a good time to break for the lunch.

[04:18:41] Speaker 20:

Well, Your Honor, I think the Commons always need its opinion on lunch.

[04:18:44] Speaker 32:

All right. Jers, we'll take our lunch break now. We'll see you back at two o'clock.

[04:19:34] Speaker 27:

Does anyone need to discuss anything?

[04:19:38] Speaker 20:

Nothing from the Commonwealth, Your Honor.

[04:21:13] Speaker 44:

He hadn't spoken to her in sex and that she was missing.

[04:21:16] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[04:21:17] Speaker 44:

And I think you told us on this, you were in shock. It didn't make sense to you.

[04:21:22] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[04:21:23] Speaker 44:

That you were just with them.

[04:21:25] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[04:21:26] Speaker 44:

And you said to Brian, did you guys have an argument? Did you have a disagreement, right? I did. And you asked him that repeatedly.

[04:21:36] Speaker 06:

I don't know if I asked him that repeatedly. I did ask him that question.

[04:21:40] Speaker 41:

And he said to you, no. That's correct.

[04:21:47] Speaker 46:

Because it didn't make sense to you. Right.

[04:21:53] Speaker 06:

That's correct. And it also didn't make sense to me that she would leave shortly after I left. There was, yeah.

[04:22:00] Speaker 44:

And so given that, it didn't make sense to you. You were there until 1 30. They weren't arguing.

[04:22:08] Speaker 07:

They weren't arguing, no.

[04:22:10] Speaker 44:

You said the night was joyful?

[04:22:12] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[04:22:13] Speaker 44:

They were happy?

[04:22:14] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[04:22:15] Speaker 44:

And from everything you saw and what you've told us, they were in love.

[04:22:22] Speaker 06:

Well, they were happy is a loaded statement. They seemed happy that night, but people are complex. So I want to make sure that I answer that question truthfully. So I did know a couple of days in advance that she stopped for a minute. Thank you. Sure.

[04:22:41] Speaker 44:

You've been a realtor for 23 years.

[04:22:42] Speaker 06:

25 years now.

[04:22:44] Speaker 44:

25 years. So you're a salesperson, right? In a sense, one of the aspects of your job is to sell properties, right?

[04:22:51] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[04:22:52] Speaker 44:

And would you say that one of your greatest assets is to be able to read people?

[04:22:58] Speaker 06:

That's true. To listen, to understand, yes.

[04:23:01] Speaker 44:

I think you just said people are complex.

[04:23:03] Speaker 06:

That's correct.

[04:23:04] Speaker 44:

And so you and your professional job, part of it is to kind of be able to understand those complexities.

[04:23:10] Speaker 04:

Yes.

[04:23:10] Speaker 44:

To see if someone is maybe putting on a brave face or holding back, right? And you had known Anna and Brian Walsh as a married couple for almost three years at that point, right?

[04:23:22] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[04:23:23] Speaker 44:

And you have spent time with them together. You said that their family was like your family.

[04:23:30] Speaker 40:

right? Sure. And you had spent time with Brian by himself.

[04:23:33] Speaker 06:

I hadn't seen Brian in months at that point. And I hadn't also only seen Anna physically. I hadn't seen Anna physically in months.

[04:23:41] Speaker 44:

OK. But in the past, in those times that you have described him as family, as close friends, you had spent time with Brian Walsh just one on one.

[04:23:49] Speaker 07:

Yes, I had.

[04:23:49] Speaker 44:

You had spent time with Anna just one on one.

[04:23:52] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[04:23:52] Speaker 44:

She worked for you. And you described that you would be in touch all day, every day when she was working for you, right?

[04:24:00] Speaker 06:

I can't say it was every single day, but it was.

[04:24:02] Speaker 44:

Sure, sure. And you told us that she was your confidant and you were her, right?

[04:24:09] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[04:24:10] Speaker 44:

You went through an intense program with Mr. Walsh, right?

[04:24:13] Speaker 07:

That's correct.

[04:24:14] Speaker 44:

And you spent five hours of New Year's Eve on December 31st of 2022, right?

[04:24:20] Speaker 03:

That's correct.

[04:24:20] Speaker 44:

And you described the night as joyful.

[04:24:23] Speaker 03:

Jovial.

[04:24:24] Speaker 44:

Jovial. It's full of hope.

[04:24:28] Speaker 42:

I'm not sure that I would describe it as as as hopeful for the new year.

[04:24:40] Speaker 06:

Specifically if you have to ask me specifically as to what the mood was whether she was because I had heard a couple days prior.

[04:24:46] Speaker 40:

Sure. you all signed the champagne ball, right?

[04:24:51] Speaker 06:

Yes, yes, we did. Yes, we did. And that's where the complexity comes into play. I cannot know what was going on in their hearts and minds.

[04:25:00] Speaker 40:

Yeah.

[04:25:01] Speaker 06:

Of course. Thank you.

[04:25:03] Speaker 40:

Sure. You said that everyone was laughing that night together, right?

[04:25:10] Speaker 06:

Yeah, there was a good mood that night.

[04:25:11] Speaker 40:

Good mood that night.

[04:25:12] Speaker 44:

You never saw them argue, right?

[04:25:14] Speaker 06:

I did not.

[04:25:15] Speaker 44:

You said at one point that you saw them talking and laughing with each other, right?

[04:25:21] Speaker 06:

Sure. Yes, I did.

[04:25:22] Speaker 44:

And at one point, Thomas came downstairs and they didn't shoot him back up to bed. It was happy to have their son together with you.

[04:25:29] Speaker 06:

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

[04:25:32] Speaker 40:

And when Brian was cooking for you, he was even putting a Turkish flair on some of the foods to specifically for you, right?

[04:25:39] Speaker 06:

That's correct. I remember him saying that, yeah.

[04:25:43] Speaker 44:

And at 1.30, when you left, they weren't even telling you to leave. You just realized it was late and you should go.

[04:25:49] Speaker 06:

That is also correct.

[04:25:51] Speaker 44:

So when you heard that Brian was telling you that he hadn't spoken to his wife, In three days, that did not make sense to you.

[04:26:00] Speaker 02:

It did not.

[04:26:01] Speaker 44:

Because when you left at 1 1 30 in the morning, it was a joyful, happy occasion. I'm using your word. It was a joyful, happy occasion on New Year's Eve of January 31st, 2022.

[04:26:20] Speaker 06:

I didn't understand how Anna could be missing and how we did not know about this since the first of the of the of the of the year. It had been three days and our community had not been correct. We had not known about this for three days. I did not understand and and the tone of voice was not panicked.

[04:26:41] Speaker 44:

So let me just ask you my question again.

[04:26:42] Speaker 06:

Yes.

[04:26:43] Speaker 44:

Thank you. I'm not crazy.

[04:26:44] Speaker 06:

Please.

[04:26:45] Speaker 44:

When you left the house of your good friends on January 31st, excuse me, January 1st now at 1, 1.30 in the morning, the mood was joyful and happy.

[04:26:57] Speaker 09:

Yes. Redirect. I think I'll be brief.

[04:27:04] Speaker 37:

All right, before we get to that redirect, let's go ahead and bring in our guest this hour to discuss. Joining us now from Charlotte, North Carolina, criminal defense attorney and former homicide prosecutor Rob Corbett. Rob, great to have you on. Let's talk about that cross-examination of the witness on the stand. Defense counsel really efforting here to control the witness, cutting him off when he's wanting to expound on things that he's wanting to talk about. Give me your overall assessment. of that cross and the things that he was getting out there. Is it is it effective?

[04:27:37] Speaker 01:

First off, thank you for having me regarding the cross examination. You want cross examination to be short, to be concise, to get out the points that advance your theory of the case. For this particular cross-examination, personally, I did think it went on a little bit long. There were some points of where you could see where they were getting out and making some headway, but then they sort of got, as you say, in terms of caught in the weeds, so to speak. For instance, one thing we're always cautioned about is not asking that one question too many. You're never going to get the witness to probably say exactly what you want them to say in terms of to make your point. But you want to be able to make an inference. For example, there was the question of where they asked, you would say that they were a couple in love. I'm sort of like paraphrasing. And then that allowed the witness to sort of go on the tangent of, look, people are complex. I can't say exactly what's in someone's heart, someone's mind, so to speak. whereas the defense had led up with those brake clear arms and they could have tied that in, or will try to tie that in in closing in terms of saying, look, he didn't observe anything out of the ordinary. They seem like in terms of a regular couple, nothing that raised any red flags, so to speak. But because the defense asked that one question too many, they spent the next five plus minutes trying to go over and trying to clean that up. The other thing of where I would have cautioned about is that you want your energy on cross to match your witness. If your witness is calm like he was, is affable and, you know, for all intents and purposes, I would assume that the jury likes this witness. You don't want to come across in terms of too aggressive or seem like you're beating up on the witness. If the witness is being combated with you, being evasive, then you can take that term, take that take. But this witness wasn't doing that. So I think the defense lost something in that final exchange.

[04:29:32] Speaker 21:

the commonwealth case winding down uh... this may be the last witness or if not one of the final witnesses meeting we start to think about the defense this man has admitted to dismembering his wife and just getting rid of her remains one would think the last guy you want to get on a witness stand because it'll be answering very disturbing questions about the disposal of his wife's body on the other hand maybe he needs it as a bit of a Hail Mary given the evidence against him. What's your gut tell you in terms of what we should expect from the defense and whether or not Mr. Walsh takes the stand?

[04:30:14] Speaker 01:

I agree with you when you say in terms of it's a Hail Mary, meaning at this point, what do you have to lose? But that is such a, it's always a risky take to put a defendant or put a client on the stand. Now usually err on the side of caution in terms of saying that, look, if you don't have a story that you can tell, one, a convincing story, then you don't gain anything by taking that witness stand. And for the life of me, I don't know why this defendant would admit to dismembering the body and still think that that's a viable defense to say, yes, I dismembered the body. I may have disposed of the body, but I am not the person who committed this heinous crime. So I don't think in terms of he'll gain anything by taking the stand, but we've all seen stranger things happen. But that's going to open him up to a line of questioning that he does not want. I'm sure the prosecutor of the Commonwealth is salivating, hoping that he would take the stand and have to admit to that.

[04:31:10] Speaker 37:

Yeah, as a prosecutor, you would just get him to keep talking about. And then you did this and then you did that. You chopped up this part, this part and having him answer those questions. And those are going to stick with the jury.

[04:31:22] Speaker 21:

Yeah, just the details of what he did with the already just the things he bought at the Lowe's hardware store, the hacksaw, the hatchet, all of it. Can you imagine the details that he'll be providing? Let's get a break when we come back. More of the redirect after the cross has come to an end with one of the final witnesses for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. We'll see what the prosecutor wants to talk to Jim about next.

[04:31:55] Speaker 00:

The disappearance of Anna Walsh.

[04:31:57] Speaker 50:

Her husband now charged with her murder. All eyes on this accused killer. The disappearance of Anna Walsh murder trial. Live coverage today on Court TV. Tonight on Closing Arguments, one of the last people to see Anna Walsh alive takes the witness stand. We'll show you today's key moments from the end of the Commonwealth's case. Closing Arguments, tonight at 8, 7 Central, only on Court TV.

[04:36:24] UNKNOWN:

you

[04:36:34] Speaker 37:

We're back now to Massachusetts where victim Anna Walsh's former boss and one of the last people to see her alive has been on the stand.

[04:36:43] Speaker 21:

Prosecutors say that Brian and Anna Walsh spent New Year's Eve with Jeb Muklu who says he saw no signs of some sort of impending tragedy that night and everybody was getting along called the evening festive.

[04:36:54] Speaker 37:

But then things changed because hours later, Anna Walsh was dead. Ryan Walsh says he walked into their bedroom and found her dead in their bed that night, and he couldn't explain why she was dead.

[04:37:06] Speaker 21:

So he chopped her up and got rid of her body. Prosecutors aren't buying this story at all. They're looking at showing the jury all of this. This is him buying stuff at the Lowe's and other places, the Walgreens, as he's figuring out what to do with his dead wife's body. It's preposterous on so many levels, this defense. However, here we are. just deep into this trial, and they're all in on it. And it's fascinating. It was to see if a juror gets hooked.

[04:37:37] Speaker 37:

Yeah, we will have to see. Let's get you back into the courtroom now. This is the remainder of Jem's testimony.

[04:37:46] Speaker 09:

Redirect. Think I'll be breathing. Sir, you said you had heard a couple days prior.

[04:37:56] Speaker 16:

Had you heard on a couple days prior? when you were saying about people being complex?

[04:38:03] Speaker 44:

Your honor, I apologize. I could be just losing my hearing. I can't hear Mr. Conner.

[04:38:07] Speaker 20:

And I'm talking into my shoulders, so that's my fault. Sir, when you were saying people are complex, and you have heard a couple days prior, are you referring to your conversation with Anna a couple days prior?

[04:38:20] Speaker 04:

Yes, I was. I am.

[04:38:22] Speaker 20:

What is it that you heard in your conversation a couple days prior that makes you say that people are complex.

[04:38:30] Speaker 06:

That they had marital problems.

[04:38:32] Speaker 38:

Objection moved to strike the characterization.

[04:38:35] Speaker 32:

All right. And I'm going to remind you, sir, I'm going to strike the marital problems of characterization. But you can, without characterizing, you can discuss what you recall her saying. even if you don't remember the exact words. Well, I recall state the question again.

[04:38:54] Speaker 20:

Understanding what her honor said as far as what Ana was saying, what is it that you heard in that conversation that you just said that people are complex?

[04:39:09] Speaker 06:

Well, if I may, may I explain?

[04:39:12] Speaker 20:

I think you can't, sir. I think you have to stay with just what Ana said to you. If you can't, that's okay. But if you can state what Ana said to you, that's my question.

[04:39:25] Speaker 06:

On the 29th, when we had that phone conversation?

[04:39:28] Speaker 20:

Yes, sir.

[04:39:32] Speaker 06:

She told me that there were cracks in the relationships. And I don't know which words. She may have used precisely those words. She may have used other words.

[04:39:43] Speaker 44:

We've seen sidebar objection, and I'm going to move to strike that testimony.

[04:39:46] Speaker 32:

I'll hear you at the sidebar before I make any ruling on that.

[04:39:52] Speaker 21:

OK, another sidebar there. A lot of them with this witness. Rob Corbett. The defense is just so it's hard to get your head around. In the opening statements when it was articulated that this was the defense, that he disposed of his wife's body because he didn't know what to do. And he thought people might accuse him of something wrong. So he chopped her up and got rid of her. I don't know how you do get that across without him pulling off an Academy Award type performance in front of the jury to take us back to that moment and go through that because it just seems so ridiculous.

[04:40:35] Speaker 01:

I'd agree with that in terms of it does stretch the imagination. But a lot of times, and not all the times, you have to play the cards that you are dealt. So I'm sure that leading up to trial or even when they were first discussing this case, when you're looking at all the evidence against him in terms of the being caught on video, buying the items, the internet search history, what have you, and this is all that they have so like you said earlier that they had to go all in with this type of defense and it's not one that any of us who are watching this thinks that they have any chance at all but this is all that they have and you have a client for whatever reason is saying that I am not going to accept responsibility Therefore, he has the constitutional right to say the Commonwealth has to prove this case to 12 members of our community if they say that I did it. Now, regarding in terms of what he has to say, it has to be in terms of, like you mentioned, an Academy Award performance. And even with that, I don't see a juror or the jury being convinced that they would follow that and not find them responsible for what happened.

[04:41:52] Speaker 37:

I mean, you know, it'd have to be, you know, I did these things bad in the past. I'm kind of a criminal, and other people maybe wouldn't think the way that I think, but this is how I thought. This is what I should do.

[04:42:02] Speaker 01:

Yeah. And the golden rule is that you don't tell a juror to say, put yourselves in the shoes of the defendant so the defense can't say that. But a juror is going to think, what would a reasonable person do in that situation? And it'll be very highly unlikely for people to say a reasonable person. Sure, you're panicked. Sure, you'll be scared. But you're not going to go to that step of chopping up the body and trying to get rid of it. absolutely.

[04:42:27] Speaker 21:

Yeah, it's better to just in close say, listen, you might think you did it because it seems like because most of it, but they didn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt how on a died. And because of that, you know, maybe that's the route. I don't know. It's a tough one.

[04:42:42] Speaker 37:

That sidebar is over. Let's go back and see what else we have to look forward to in this case.

[04:42:50] Speaker 20:

I know it's been three years. it has been. To the best of your recollection, what I'm asking you is on that December 29th conversation, to the best of your recollection, what did Anna Walsh say to you that led you to say that people are complex?

[04:43:16] Speaker 06:

Okay. The complexity I'm referring to is the fact that on the 29th, on the 29th, She gave me information. I cannot recall the exact words. She gave me information that she was having problems in her marriage with Brian.

[04:43:33] Speaker 38:

And your honor moved to strike.

[04:43:40] Speaker 30:

To the best of your recollection, what did she say?

[04:43:45] Speaker 06:

Well, again, it's been three years, your honor.

[04:43:47] Speaker 31:

If you have a recollection, you do. And if you don't, sir, that's fine, too.

[04:43:52] Speaker 06:

Again, I remember what was discussed at the conversation. I just don't remember the exact words. I did give my testimony when it was very fresh.

[04:44:00] Speaker 20:

Yeah, I understand. Sure. Sure. It's just because we want to make sure we get it right. OK. So you had the conversation with Anna on the 29th.

[04:44:13] Speaker 51:

That's correct.

[04:44:15] Speaker 20:

Do you remember what she said? If you don't, you don't. It's okay. Do you remember what she said that makes you think that people are complex?

[04:44:26] Speaker 06:

Well, it's not what she said that night that makes me think that people are complex. I know people are complex.

[04:44:30] Speaker 32:

I'll strike me. I'll strike me then redirect the witness to the time frame.

[04:44:35] Speaker 20:

So just on December 29th. Yeah, what did she say to you as far as? Your concerns about her being I don't recall the exact words. Okay, that's thank you. Thank you.

[04:44:48] Speaker 08:

Thank you any recross.

[04:44:50] Speaker 28:

No, thank you. Thank you.

[04:44:51] Speaker 08:

Mr. No, thank you. Thank you very much

[04:44:57] Speaker 37:

Okay, he's done Interesting guy interesting guy interesting demeanor on the stand. I enjoyed listening to what he had to say.

[04:45:07] Speaker 21:

Yeah, absolutely Let's get a break. We'll come back next witness. There are more Coming up right after the break stay with us

[04:49:22] UNKNOWN:

you

[04:49:33] Speaker 21:

Let's head back to the death of Massachusetts. The Commonwealth case could rest as early as today in the murder trial for defendant Brian Walsh.

[04:49:40] Speaker 37:

Walsh is charged with killing his wife, Anna. This was back in 2023. He allegedly spent several days trying to conceal the crime before she was ultimately reported missing by her employer. Her body's never been found.

[04:49:52] Speaker 21:

Let's go back to the courtroom now. New witness on the stand. This is Brian Walsh's probation officer.

[04:49:58] Speaker 35:

Good afternoon, Marlene Ramdahal. And can you please spell your name for the record?

[04:50:02] Speaker 25:

Yes, Marlene, M-A-R-L-E-N-N-Y. Last name, R-A-M-D-E-H-A-L. And what is your occupation, ma'am? I am a senior US probation officer. And what is your jurisdiction? The District of Massachusetts.

[04:50:19] Speaker 35:

Where is your office located? In Totten. And how long have you been a federal probation officer? Approximately 12 years. Are you familiar with Brian Walsh? I am. And how long have you known Mr. Walsh?

[04:50:35] Speaker 25:

Since November of 2021.

[04:50:38] Speaker 35:

And that's when you first met him? Yes. And how often did you see him?

[04:50:44] Speaker 25:

Approximately once every 60 days. And how did you see him? At his residence or at my office.

[04:50:52] Speaker 35:

And can you please identify him for the record? Mr. Watson, the black sweater. Thank you, Your Honor. Might the record reflect that the witness has identified the defendant?

[04:51:02] Speaker 29:

The record will so reflect.

[04:51:05] Speaker 35:

in January of 2023 and December of 2022 was Mr Walsh, the defendant subject to conditions set by a federal district court. He was and what were those conditions?

[04:51:20] Speaker 25:

He was subject to a number of conditions to include home confinement, which limited his movement in the community. when was the defendant authorized to leave his home? He was authorized to leave his residence with a pre-scheduled pass, so he would have to ask permission before leaving his home. Did he have set windows that he was allowed to leave?

[04:51:46] Speaker 35:

He did. And what was he required to do before leaving his home?

[04:51:54] Speaker 25:

Prior to leaving his residence, he would have to have an approved schedule.

[04:51:59] Speaker 35:

And who would approve that schedule? I would. Where was he allowed to go?

[04:52:06] Speaker 25:

a client on the home confinement program is only allowed to leave the resident for essential necessities. Um, so things such as employment, education, religion, treatment, attorney visits, court appointed activities. Um, he was also allowed to do things such as grocery shop, um, banking, um, grooming, things of that nature. He also had permission to do, um, things with his children and his mother.

[04:52:35] Speaker 35:

that he would be required to do.

[04:52:37] Speaker 25:

So what did he need to do as far as specifying where he would go. So on Thursdays he was to submit schedules to me- with what essential necessities would be required for the following week. And- and how would he do that. He would send me an email. And- what was he. What permission did he have to leave the state he did not have permission to leave the state.

[04:53:18] Speaker 35:

You said that he was allowed to. To go for necessities. Is a restaurant considered a necessity no it is not. what did he have to do if he wanted to deviate from the schedule that he had submitted on Thursdays?

[04:53:38] Speaker 25:

I believe you said correct. Um, yes, there was a change to the schedule. He would be required to submit a new schedule request. And how would he do that again via email? And who would he do that to myself?

[04:54:06] Speaker 35:

I want to ask you about Friday, January 6th of 2023. Did you see the defendant that day in person? I did. And what contact did you receive from him requesting permission for his window for the following week?

[04:54:27] Speaker 25:

question. On January six Mr wash submitted a schedule for Wednesday the eleventh- he requested a haircut appointment from- one thirty to three fifteen. He also requested a pass for the twelfth to me with his probate attorney from- ten thirty to three fifteen.

[04:54:48] Speaker 35:

What contact did you have

[04:54:55] Speaker 25:

on January 5th. Mr Walsh contacted me to inform me of law enforcement contact, which is required by his conditions of release. He also notified me that his wife Anna was missing.

[04:55:08] Speaker 35:

What was his window of release on Thursday, January 5th?

[04:55:13] Speaker 25:

on January 5th. He had a reoccurring schedule to drop off his Children between eight a.m. and 10 30 a.m. He then had a pass to assist his mother with some errands from 10 15 to 130. And then he had reoccurring schedule to pick up his Children from 3 45 to 6 15. And the

[04:55:38] Speaker 35:

the morning schedule in the afternoon schedule was that a set recurring schedule correct Monday through Friday and was the middle of the time that he was with his mother was that also recurring time or was that something he had just requested he had just requested at the week prior and. What was the window of release for Wednesday, January 4th?

[04:56:01] Speaker 25:

The fourth would have been drop off children from 8 to 10 30. Then he had a reoccurring groceries schedule from 11 to 1 30. And again, pick up of the Children from 3 15 to 6 45. So that was all pre arranged. I'm correct, yes.

[04:56:21] Speaker 35:

And what was the window of release on Tuesday, January 3rd?

[04:56:27] Speaker 25:

Tuesday, drop off children, 8 to 1030, pick up children, 315 to 645. And he had a reoccurring schedule as well to get his trash out. And that was from 750 to 820, I believe. In the evening? In the evening, sorry.

[04:56:46] UNKNOWN:

OK.

[04:56:46] Speaker 25:

and why did he need that for the trash? Because it wasn't on his property.

[04:56:54] Speaker 35:

Okay. And what was the window of release for Monday, January 2nd of 2023?

[04:57:02] Speaker 25:

On Monday the 2nd, he only had pick up and drop off of the children. So 8 a.m. to 10 30 a.m. and then pick up from 3 15 to 6 45.

[04:57:13] Speaker 35:

I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Um but did you really, um, received some information about an unauthorized leave for that day? I did. And when was that? Approximately 353 P.m. And did you speak to him? I did.

[04:57:33] Speaker 25:

I reached out to him to ask him about the unauthorized leave, and he indicated that he was picking up his children per usual.

[04:57:42] Speaker 35:

Okay. And in fact, the 315 to 645, was that authorized for Monday, January 2nd, 2023 being a holiday?

[04:58:00] Speaker 25:

It was because there was no notification that school was not in session.

[04:58:09] Speaker 35:

And what was the window of release on Sunday, January 1st of 2023?

[04:58:14] Speaker 25:

On the 1st, he had submitted a request to return his mother home from 3 p.m. to 9 p.m. And what do you mean, return his mother home? He indicated that his mother was staying with him post surgery and he was taking her back to her residence. And when was that window established? That would have been the week prior, so I want to say December 22nd.

[04:58:45] Speaker 35:

And where did he indicate that he would be returning his mother? To her residence. And where was that, if you know? I don't remember off the top of my head. OK. And at that point, did he ask permission to go to a restaurant? He did not. For January 1st of 2023? He did not. to go places if he had not cleared it with you first.

[04:59:12] Speaker 25:

He was not allowed to do any unapproved stops. I might have one moment. You may.

[04:59:25] Speaker 24:

No further questions thank you.

[04:59:32] Speaker 14:

Good afternoon so did I hear you right that said the- the wall. To be able to go- three PM to nine PM on Sunday January first yes that fire week of December twenty second. That is correct.

[04:59:56] Speaker 25:

It would need court approval. Probation does not have the authority to approve non-essential necessities.

[05:00:01] Speaker 14:

So you'd have to go through a court process that take quite a while to go through the federal court process?

[05:00:07] Speaker 25:

It's a motion to the court, so it's just a documentation that needs to be submitted.

[05:00:11] Speaker 13:

But it has to be filed. It has to be decided. It has to be returned.

[05:00:15] Speaker 25:

That is correct.

[05:00:16] Speaker 14:

And there's always the chance that it wouldn't be allowed. Correct. So if somebody like Mr. Walsh wanted to take his wife out to a restaurant for New Year's Day, there's a chance that he would be permitted and get permission to take his wife to a New Year's Day dinner, even if he had filed a request.

[05:00:39] Speaker 25:

There is that chance, correct?

[05:00:40] Speaker 14:

Thank you very much.

[05:00:44] Speaker 32:

Any redirect?

[05:00:46] Speaker 35:

No redirect, thank you.

[05:00:47] Speaker 32:

The witness may step down. Thank you.

[05:00:52] Speaker 21:

All right, we're gonna break next witness for the Commonwealth. A Home Depot employee testifies to more surveillance footage of Brian Walsh buying cleaning supplies.

[05:01:02] Speaker 00:

Stay with us, we're coming right back. Disappearance of Anna Walsh.

[05:01:07] Speaker 50:

Her husband now charged with her murder. All eyes on this accused killer. The Disappearance of Anna Walsh murder trial. Live coverage today on Court TV. Tonight on Closing Arguments, one of the last people to see Anna Walsh alive takes the witness stand. We'll show you today's key moments from the end of the Commonwealth's case.

[05:05:06] UNKNOWN:

you

[05:05:18] Speaker 37:

We are focused on Dedham this morning for day 8 of the murder trial for Brian Walsh. It's actually this afternoon, almost 2 o'clock.

[05:05:25] Speaker 21:

Yeah, in real time, the jury is at lunch. They are expected back just after 2 o'clock, and that's when we'll be picking up live testimony. Right now, we're just finishing up the morning session worth of testimony, which, of course, was headlined by that family friend who came over on New Year's. Now we're going back into the courtroom for the next witness, a Home Depot employee.

[05:05:47] Speaker 18:

sure it's tony macrina m a c r i n a where do you work sir home depot and what do you do for home depot i am a district asset protection manager and um what are your responsibilities as a district asset protection manager We help, I help increase profitability by mitigating losses and creating a safe work environment for the associates and customers. How long have you been with Home Depot? Currently four and a half years.

[05:06:20] Speaker 20:

And how in that time you've always been a district asset protection manager? Yes. And what is your district?

[05:06:28] Speaker 18:

It's considered Southeastern Mass. So it's approximately 10 stores in that area. All right. Does that include Rockland?

[05:06:36] Speaker 20:

Yes. Sir, have you had the opportunity to help produce a receipt in videos to law enforcement in January 2023 in this matter? Yes. And have you had the opportunity to review both of those prior to today? I did. Sir, as far as the videos that are maintained at Home Depot, are they done in the normal course of business? Yes, they are. Are they done in good faith?

[05:06:56] Speaker 17:

Yes.

[05:06:57] Speaker 20:

And the videos, I take it they're recorded digitally? Correct. So when they're recorded, they're recorded as it's happening to a server, correct? Yes. What access do you have to the server?

[05:07:08] Speaker 18:

I remote in using a laptop or a computer. OK. Can anyone have access to it? Just anybody who works within the asset protection department.

[05:07:20] Speaker 20:

And sir? The videos that you had a chance to review, did you look at a thumb drive and then sign the back of it?

[05:07:30] Speaker 11:

Yes.

[05:07:36] Speaker 32:

You may.

[05:07:40] Speaker 20:

you. I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure your honor with the court's permission may the commonwealth. Publish some of the videos from the home depot drug- yes. Is Gilman could we have. The video home depot entering. If we can press pause.

[05:08:42] Speaker 18:

This is a shot of the doorway where most customers after purchasing would walk out. So the main exit, we call this. The main exit.

[05:08:53] Speaker 20:

Now, at the bottom of the screen, there's a date and time. Are the dates and times accurate on the Home Depot videos? Yes, they are. And to be clear, this is Rockland, right? Correct. This is a good one if you could press play.

[05:09:26] Speaker 34:

Thank you. Close on that.

[05:09:30] Speaker 20:

And miss Gilman could we have. Pro exit purchasing. And you. Thank you. Sir where is this location in Home Depot in Rockland.

[05:10:04] Speaker 18:

This is on one side of the store we call it the pro exit. So generally this is where the lumber is- purchased and it's usually a bigger space so that you can get those

[05:10:23] Speaker 21:

All right, the Home Depot. Rob Corbett watching all of this. This jury has seen a ton of evidence of the aftermath of him going and buying these supplies. And just, you know, video of someone at a Home Depot doesn't usually stir up emotion, unless it's something like this, where you know what he's doing. How effective is it for the Commonwealth to keep hitting and reminding this guy chopped up his wife?

[05:10:51] Speaker 01:

I think it's very effective in terms of the Commonwealth at this point is building or continuing to build up a circumstantial case. And a typical jury instruction is that the court will tell the jury that they can view circumstantial evidence the same that they view direct evidence. Direct evidence, something that you see or hear for yourself, circumstantial evidence, a list of things that leads you to a certain conclusion. So this is important evidence. It may seem repetitive at points or at times, but it is important because it shows one, the previous witness that walsh has to ask permission to leave home and that they can't just do in terms of trivial things but has to ask permission if he wants to be out and this is yet another video that shows he is at the store at home depot by certain things that the commonwealth will tie into in terms of these were the items they were used to dispose of the body and then add that with the various internet searches of how long a body takes to decompose or how long will the smell last and all these things were just continuing to add up until ultimately they asked the question in terms of was this sufficient proof to prove beyond a reasonable doubt and their answer would be for the prosecutor to viewpoint that it is and as a result they should vote guilty.

[05:12:09] Speaker 37:

And the prosecutor is pretty much wrapping up the case. This is pretty much it, the finality of their presentation of the evidence. Robert, we only have a few seconds. I mean, anything more you would do as a prosecutor here if you were handling this case?

[05:12:25] Speaker 01:

no, I think in terms of this is the appropriate point. I may have changed some of the witnesses because you want to end on a strong on a high note. And there are probably other witnesses that gave that. But this is an appropriate point to end the case at this point.

[05:12:36] Speaker 21:

All right, Rob. Thank you as always. Appreciate your valuable time. We'll get a break when we come back more case against Brian.

[05:14:35] UNKNOWN:

you Thank you. . . . . Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. . . . . . . . . . .

[05:24:39] Speaker 23:

You are unmuted.

[05:24:51] Speaker 32:

That conversation we had about the photo earlier Commonwealth to use a photo that is blurred out.

[05:25:10] Speaker 35:

Excuse me, Your Honor.

[05:25:11] Speaker 32:

The Commonwealth is to use the photo that is blurred out. The blurry one. The blurring one. And that's upon the representation that the defense is not contesting that that is a photo of her. Correct?

[05:25:26] Speaker 44:

Not good, though. The blurred one is fine, Your Honor.

[05:25:28] Speaker 32:

All right. And there's no dispute that that's a photo of her and you're content with me saying that to the jury.

[05:25:34] Speaker 35:

Yes, thank you.

[05:25:35] Speaker 32:

All right.

[05:25:37] Speaker 47:

I think you're on.

[05:26:18] UNKNOWN:

Thank you.

[05:27:10] Speaker 10:

Please, we see the clips now in session.

[05:27:12] Speaker 20:

Turn off your cell phones, please.

[05:27:14] Speaker 32:

Commonwealth may call its next witness.

[05:27:16] Speaker 20:

Thank you, Your Honor. The Commonwealth would call Christopher Bernasconi.

[05:27:28] Speaker 45:

Sir, could you just follow me, please? Please, just raise your right hand for me, please.

[05:27:39] Speaker 26:

You may proceed.

[05:27:42] Speaker 13:

Thank you, Your Honor.

[05:28:01] Speaker 20:

Sir, could you state your name and spell your last name for the record?

[05:28:04] Speaker 52:

Yes, it's Christopher Bernasconi. And the last name is B-E-R-N-A-S-C-O-N-I. Where do you work, sir? I work for TJ Maxx.

[05:28:15] Speaker 20:

What do you do for TJ Maxx?

[05:28:16] Speaker 52:

I'm a district loss prevention manager for District 1102, which is Metro Boston.

[05:28:22] Speaker 20:

And how long have you been with TJ Maxx?

[05:28:24] Speaker 52:

30 years.

[05:28:26] Speaker 20:

And within Metro Boston, does that include the Norwell store?

[05:28:30] Speaker 52:

It does not.

[05:28:31] Speaker 20:

It does not. Have you had the opportunity to review videos from the Norwell store though?

[05:28:36] Speaker 53:

Yes.

[05:28:36] Speaker 20:

And have you been designated as the keeper of records for TJ Maxx for those videos?

[05:28:41] Speaker 53:

Yes.

[05:28:42] Speaker 20:

And have you helped produce those videos prior to coming to court today?

[05:28:45] Speaker 53:

Yes.

[05:28:46] Speaker 20:

Did you review them to make sure that they had not been altered in any way?

[05:28:50] Speaker 53:

Yes.

[05:28:51] Speaker 20:

One of the videos though, there's a person that's blurred, isn't that correct?

[05:28:54] Speaker 52:

Correct.

[05:28:54] Speaker 20:

Is that done because the person was an 18?

[05:28:56] Speaker 52:

That is correct.

[05:28:58] Speaker 20:

Now, the videos that you turned over, that you helped produce from TJ Maxx, that was done in January of 2023, correct?

[05:29:06] Speaker 52:

That's correct.

[05:29:07] Speaker 20:

And TJ Maxx, they maintain their videos in the normal course of business?

[05:29:11] Speaker 52:

Correct.

[05:29:12] Speaker 20:

And they are done in good faith? Correct. Your Honor, may I approach?

[05:29:16] Speaker 32:

You may.

[05:29:21] Speaker 20:

Sir, is... Is this the drive that you were looking at that had the videos from TJ Maxx on it?

[05:29:26] Speaker 53:

It is.

[05:29:26] Speaker 20:

It is for January 4th of 2023, correct?

[05:29:30] Speaker 52:

That's correct.

[05:29:33] Speaker 19:

You're on the call. We'll proceed to have the drive on January 4th, 2023, TJ Maxx videos on mobile.

[05:29:39] Speaker 32:

Any objection to that?

[05:29:40] Speaker 19:

No objection.

[05:29:42] Speaker 32:

The TJ Maxx thumb drive of 1423 is now in evidence as exhibit 263.

[05:29:52] Speaker 19:

You may.

[05:29:56] Speaker 20:

Thank you. Ms. Gilman, can we have the first video entrance? And Ms. Gilman, if you could press pause. Sir, where is this in the Norwell store?

[05:30:10] Speaker 52:

This is referred to as the entry public view monitor capturing the entrance of the TJ Maxx in Norwell.

[05:30:18] Speaker 20:

And Ms. Gilman, could you go to one minute and 28 seconds on the video player? And Mr. Bernasconi, at the top of the video is a label. That is, do you see that 2003-01-04? The title of the video? You see that?

[05:30:43] Speaker 52:

I do.

[05:30:45] Speaker 20:

OK. And the time on the video, is it fair to say that's 944 and 24 seconds as far as the start time?

[05:30:51] Speaker 52:

That's correct.

[05:30:52] Speaker 20:

Sir, are there any issues with the TJ Maxx videos as far as the accuracy of their time? They're very accurate. If you could press play. Ms. Gilman, could we have the second video queue? And Ms. Gilman, could you go to eight minutes and 12 seconds on the video player, media player? Thank you, Ms. Gilman. And if you could press play. Sir, where is this in the store?

[05:31:57] Speaker 52:

This is the public view monitor in the queue line, which is essentially the checkout area.

[05:32:25] Speaker 20:

And Ms. Gilman, can we go to the final video for register four? Sir, where is this in the store?

[05:32:36] Speaker 52:

This is above the cash register, register four, I believe.

[05:35:40] Speaker 20:

Thank you, Mr. Gilman.

[05:35:41] Speaker 32:

And your arm may approach one last time. You may.

[05:35:49] Speaker 20:

Mr. Beresconi, do you recognize this document?

[05:35:51] Speaker 52:

I do.

[05:35:52] Speaker 20:

Is this a receipt for the transaction that you just showed us videos of?

[05:35:57] Speaker 53:

It is.

[05:35:58] Speaker 20:

The Commonwealth would seek to have the receipt from TJ Maxx for January 4th from Norwell as the next exhibit.

[05:36:07] Speaker 32:

Any objection? Objection. the receipt that corresponds to exhibit 263 is now in evidence as 264.

[05:36:16] Speaker 20:

And Your Honor, may I make a comment?

[05:36:20] Speaker 32:

Publish it, yes.

[05:36:21] Speaker 20:

Publish it. I just want to make sure I talk to the court reporter. Yes, you may. Thank you. Mr. Berlusconi, what is the address for this store?

[05:36:32] Speaker 52:

It's 10 Washington Street in Orwell, Massachusetts.

[05:36:35] Speaker 20:

And does this share a parking lot with another TGX store?

[05:36:41] Speaker 52:

Yes, the Home Goods division.

[05:36:43] Speaker 20:

And can we go all the way down to the bottom? Right there. Sir, how is this transaction conducted? Was it cash or charge?

[05:36:56] Speaker 52:

It was a store value card used to make payment in this particular transaction.

[05:37:02] Speaker 20:

And how much was the transaction for? $133.94. And going all the way down to the bottom, if we may? What was the date and time of the transaction?

[05:37:12] Speaker 52:

January 4th, 2023 at 9.5359 a.m. Thank you, sir.

[05:37:17] Speaker 20:

No further questions.

[05:37:23] Speaker 32:

No cross. Witness may step down. Thank you, sir.

[05:37:26] Speaker 52:

Thank you.

[05:37:42] Speaker 32:

Commonwealth may call its next witness.

[05:37:45] Speaker 35:

The Commonwealth would call Alyssa Kirby.

[05:38:18] Speaker 26:

few songs where our firm testimonial given the cause now and hearing will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God thank you just follow me please okay take your time just watch a step

[05:38:41] Speaker 32:

You may proceed. Thank you.

[05:38:44] Speaker 35:

Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Can you please state your full name for the record and spell your name?

[05:38:51] Speaker 36:

Yes, Alyssa Kirby, A-L-I-S-S-A-K-I-R, B as in boy, Y.

[05:38:59] Speaker 35:

And where were you living in December of 2022?

[05:39:02] Speaker 36:

I was living in Chevy Chase, Washington, D.C.

[05:39:08] Speaker 35:

And were you familiar with Anna and Brian Walsh? Yes. And how were you familiar with the Walshes?

[05:39:17] Speaker 36:

We were friends. I was introduced through my brother and sister-in-law.

[05:39:23] Speaker 35:

And what's your brother's name? Peter Kirby. And so how would you characterize your relationship with Anna Walsh?

[05:39:36] Speaker 36:

Yeah, Anna and I quickly became really close friends. And yeah, we were new best friends, we called it, and we spent a lot of time together. We just kind of clicked like sisters. And when did you become so close? Shortly after she moved to Washington DC and lived nearby.

[05:40:01] Speaker 35:

So you said she lived nearby? Yes. Can you tell us how far she lived from you? About five minutes around the corner, five minute walk. And how often would you see her once she moved to Washington DC?

[05:40:19] Speaker 36:

I would say we planned to try to see each other about once a week. It wasn't always that, but about that. And how often would you communicate with her? Similarly, about once a week or when she would come back to DC, we'd talk about when we could meet up and hang out.

[05:40:39] Speaker 35:

And did you know Will Fastow?

[05:40:42] Speaker 36:

I knew of him, yes.

[05:40:44] Speaker 35:

And how did you know of Will Fastow?

[05:40:48] Speaker 36:

Shortly after I started spending more time with Ana, she would talk to me about him as the man who sold her her house, but then her interest in him and just hearing a lot about him as a person.

[05:41:04] Speaker 35:

And what did she tell you about him?

[05:41:12] Speaker 36:

She told me of that she was interested in him, that she had a crush on him, but it was a lot more talk about their connection and like, I guess what she wanted to have happen with him and her, I guess just her interest.

[05:41:36] Speaker 35:

And what did she tell you about telling Brian Walsh about this crush on Will Fastow?

[05:41:45] Speaker 36:

She told me that she was open with Brian about her crush on Will and that he knew.

[05:41:57] Speaker 35:

Christmas of 2022, did you have communication with Brian Walsh on that day? Yes. And how did that happen?

[05:42:09] Speaker 36:

Brian called me that day and because he rarely or almost never called me, I answered and he was looking for Ana because he said he hadn't heard from her. And so because she lived around the corner, I offered to go over there and check on her.

[05:42:28] Speaker 35:

And what happened? Did you go over and check on her?

[05:42:33] Speaker 36:

As I was getting ready to go, he had messaged me back that he had gotten in touch with her.

[05:42:37] Speaker 35:

So when you say that you had talked to him first and offered to check on her, did you do that in text, on the phone, or something else?

[05:42:47] Speaker 36:

I believe that first time was a phone call and then later was a text message.

[05:42:52] Speaker 35:

And do you remember what time of day that phone call was?

[05:42:57] Speaker 36:

Not exactly, but maybe I feel like it was noon or early afternoon.

[05:43:03] Speaker 35:

Okay. And what was his demeanor when you spoke to him on the phone?

[05:43:11] Speaker 36:

That day I think he was worried or a little bit nervous.

[05:43:16] Speaker 35:

And approximately how long was it after you had spoken to him that he texted you?

[05:43:24] Speaker 36:

I think it was within like 10 minutes because I was getting ready to go and it was fast enough that I hadn't left yet.

[05:43:33] Speaker 35:

And did you speak with Anna Walsh that day on Christmas Day? Yes. And when did you speak with Anna Walsh that day?

[05:43:42] Speaker 36:

It was much later that day in the afternoon. I was already with family for the holiday and she called me as she was driving up to Massachusetts.

[05:43:55] Speaker 35:

And what was her demeanor when she called you? She was very upset.

[05:44:01] Speaker 36:

And when you say very upset, can you describe that? Yeah, she was angry. And she was upset that Brian would have called me that day because she said that she'd only not spoken to him for like an hour and a half or two hours. It really hadn't been that long. And there was already some strife.

[05:44:25] Speaker 32:

Disdained, non-responsive, so I'll strike the last part. Ask the next question.

[05:44:31] Speaker 35:

Certainly. So how long did you speak with her for that day? Maybe like 20 minutes. And did you arrange to see her again? Yes. And when did you plan to see Anna Walsh?

[05:44:50] Speaker 36:

I can't remember exactly when we planned it, but I know we had planned a day to get together right before New Year's to kind of see each other, hang out, catch up and like celebrate like a New Year's together.

[05:45:03] Speaker 35:

And did you see her to have that celebration? Yes. And what day was that that you saw her to have that celebration?

[05:45:12] Speaker 36:

I believe it was the 29th.

[05:45:16] Speaker 35:

And that was the 29th of what month? Oh, December. Of 2022. Correct. And where did you go?

[05:45:27] Speaker 36:

We went a few places. We started at the bar that was across from where we lived that we'd been to a few times. And then we later went out to a karaoke dancing bar.

[05:45:42] Speaker 35:

And how long did you stay out that night? Like six hours. So what was her demeanor that night?

[05:45:56] Speaker 36:

So that night, because of what happened after Christmas, she was really upset. She was She was kind of breaking down because everything had been really hard, which Anna was always a very strong person. So that was very unusual for her. And she was just really upset about so much. She had really hit a breaking point. And yeah, we talked about a lot of things because she was so upset.

[05:46:29] Speaker 35:

Ms. Kirby, can you tell me what she was upset about?

[05:46:38] Speaker 36:

She was primarily upset about her and Brian's relationship, about being so far away from the kids, and feeling like she was upset having found out that the federal case was delayed or she thought the federal case was delayed by Brian and that she just really wanted to be with her kids. Their marriage had been really strained for a long time and she was, she told me how upset she was and how frustrating that was and how she was really at a breaking point.

[05:47:24] Speaker 32:

I'm gonna remind you that the statements that are being offered with regard to Hannah Walsh's state of mind are admissible, again, limited to establishing the state of mind, as is relevant to the defendant's motive to kill. To the extent that such state of mind evidence includes statements describing the defendant's federal case, honest statements are admitted only to show the defendant's motive and not to show that he had a bad character, hence he can commit any criminal offense.

[05:48:01] Speaker 35:

You may proceed. Thank you. Had you seen her like this before?

[05:48:11] Speaker 36:

No. Anna was usually someone very, very happy, very joyful, very strong.

[05:48:23] Speaker 32:

Okay, no characterizations, just your observations. Next question.

[05:48:31] Speaker 35:

When talking, did she use specific words about what she had said to the defendant? What she had said to Brian Walsh about the legal case?

[05:48:50] Speaker 36:

What she, told me about that was that she was upset because she wanted him to take responsibility. She just, she wanted their family together. She wanted that whole process to be over and she wanted him to be responsible, be accountable and do whatever he had to do to keep their family together.

[05:49:13] Speaker 35:

And what did she mean? What did she tell you that she meant by the word responsibility?

[05:49:20] Speaker 36:

Yeah, at that point in time, responsibility was potentially just taking jail time and admitting wrongdoing and just owning a mistake so that their family, that she would be waiting for them and that their family could be together.

[05:49:39] Speaker 35:

Did she give you specifics of what she had told you about the amount of time?

[05:49:46] Speaker 36:

I think it was all an estimate, but at the time she thought maybe a year.

[05:49:55] Speaker 35:

What did she tell you about the physical separation and her family staying together? I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure what you're asking. I'm sorry, I didn't ask that well. What did she tell you about being in different states and what that physical separation might mean?

[05:50:19] Speaker 36:

Yeah, that it was really difficult for the family, but that also Because of how difficult things were, she was contemplating what that could mean legally being able to take her children to Washington DC. And also the physical separation from a husband was very difficult for her.

[05:50:43] Speaker 35:

What, if anything, did she tell you about having established a separate household?

[05:50:50] Speaker 36:

Oh, that she had told me that everything was set up in her name, the house in Washington, D.C., and the bills were everything was in her name. So she was trying to figure out a way that she could have the kids with her in D.C. What, if anything, did she tell you about her intimate relationship with Brian Walsh? She told me that, you know, aside from everything being really difficult, that they had not been intimate in a really long time, like maybe over a year, I think she had said.

[05:51:32] Speaker 35:

And what did she tell you as to why?

[05:51:38] Speaker 36:

She said it was because that Brian had been really depressed and that the strain of the case had really just taken a toll on his mental health and their marriage, and that she felt also that her energy was being really drained. Yeah.

[05:52:04] Speaker 35:

Was she specific about what she meant by her energy being drained?

[05:52:09] Speaker 36:

Yeah, at that time, she was saying that Brian was calling her several times a day, that she felt physically and emotionally exhausted traveling back and forth from D.C. to Massachusetts. It was just a lot on her body, mind, soul and spirit. And that, yeah, that also just like emotionally feeling like she had to be the strong one was very draining for her.

[05:52:38] Speaker 35:

What did she tell you about Brian and his mother?

[05:52:48] Speaker 36:

She had always said that.

[05:52:49] Speaker 32:

I'll see at the side of the bench.

[05:53:23] Speaker 49:

you

[05:53:47] Speaker 35:

Ms. Kirby, in this conversation on December 29th, what did she tell you about Brian and his mother and a psychic?

[05:53:57] Speaker 36:

She told me that Brian had told her that his mom went to a psychic and that the psychic had said that she was having an affair. And that night she told me how ridiculous that was and how like she was very upset by that and she'd always felt that Brian's mom didn't like her and that it was scary.

[05:54:24] Speaker 35:

Did she say why? that she was, why that was scary? Yeah, I think because she always... Yes, sustained. Did she say why? Not your opinion, just did she say why in that conversation?

[05:54:40] Speaker 36:

Yes, what she said as to why was that she felt like his mom never really liked her and never wanted her in the picture, basically.

[05:55:06] Speaker 35:

Your Honor, at this time, I'd ask to publish from one picture from exhibit 145 on page 39. It's already in evidence? It is already in evidence, just the picture. You may publish it. Thank you. Ms. Kirby, do you recognize that picture? Yes. Can you tell me who's that a picture of? Picture of me and Anna. And when was that picture taken? That night we went out on the 29th. I'm sorry, did you say that was the night from the 29th? That was during that night of December 29th? Yeah. Thank you, Ms. Gilman. You can take that. Did you see Anna Walsh after the evening of December 29 into December 30, because you said you were out late, of 2022? No. And if you know, when did she leave for Massachusetts? She left that next day on the 30th. And when did you expect her to return to Washington, DC?

[05:56:51] Speaker 36:

I think she had said like the third or fourth, it was a few days after New Year's, she was planning to come back.

[05:56:57] Speaker 35:

Of January? Correct. Okay. And when was the last time that you communicated with Anna Walsh? Right after midnight on New Year's Day. And after that exchange with Anna Walsh on New Year's Day, right after midnight, did you get texts from Brian Walsh? A yes on the second. Your Honor, I'd ask to get an exhibit and then approach. You may. I'm approaching with exhibit 164.

[05:57:45] Speaker 32:

164? Yes. Thank you.

[05:58:08] Speaker 35:

Do you recognize that? Yes. And you can look through it all.

[05:58:13] Speaker 22:

OK.

[05:58:54] Speaker 35:

And what are those?

[05:58:56] Speaker 36:

Text messages between me and Brian.

[05:59:00] Speaker 35:

Your Honor, may we publish exhibit 164 for the jury? You may. Thank you. So I'd specifically like to ask about on January 3rd, if we could go down, Can you read the, on page two, can you read that in green?

[05:59:39] Speaker 36:

Yes. It says, hello, I know we did this a week ago, but have you heard from Anna?

[05:59:46] Speaker 35:

And how did you respond to that?

[05:59:49] Speaker 36:

I said, hey, Brian, sorry for the delay with sleeping. I have the flu and I'm super sick. I texted with Anna on New Year's Day, but no, haven't heard from her. Is she working today? She's usually running around super busy with work.

[06:00:02] Speaker 35:

And when did you send that?

[06:00:05] Speaker 36:

It looks like on January 3rd at 12 51 p.m. And then did Mr. Walsh respond to you? He said, you're right, I'll let you know when she calls, feel better soon.

[06:00:21] Speaker 35:

And then what was, did you contact him later?

[06:00:25] Speaker 36:

After that I said, thank you. Yeah, and then the next morning, I was sick so I slept the whole day and the next morning when I realized I hadn't heard back, I texted him, did you ever hear back?

[06:00:46] Speaker 35:

And then what happened?

[06:00:48] Speaker 36:

And then he said, no, they're looking for work now. And that's when I got really scared that something was wrong.

[06:00:57] Speaker 35:

So what did you do after hearing that?

[06:01:00] Speaker 36:

After that, I called my brother and I asked if he had heard from her and was explaining the situation.

[06:01:07] Speaker 35:

Well, we can stop the publication. I'm sorry. Sustained. So just tell me what you did. What did you do?

[06:01:20] Speaker 36:

Oh, after Hexamnested, I called my brother. That's fine.

[06:01:24] Speaker 35:

That's all. And then what did you do after calling your brother? Did you speak with Brian Walsh at some point on the phone?

[06:01:36] Speaker 36:

I did, but I don't remember if it was later that day or the next day on the phone.

[06:01:42] Speaker 35:

And who was on the phone with Brian Walsh?

[06:01:47] Speaker 36:

There were some calls that was just me and Brian and some, there was one call with Brian and his mother.

[06:01:54] Speaker 35:

And what was the call with Brian and his mother like?

[06:02:02] Speaker 36:

Well, his mother was pretty combative.

[06:02:04] Speaker 32:

I think she sounded.

[06:03:25] Speaker 49:

Thank you.

[06:04:21] UNKNOWN:

you Thank you. you

[06:07:21] Speaker 35:

Going back for just a moment on the 29th, did Ana ever tell you how Brian reacted to his mother saying, the psychic saying that she was having an affair?

[06:07:33] Speaker 36:

Yeah, she told me that he thought it was equally as crazy or that was what he said to her.

[06:07:41] Speaker 35:

Your Honor, may I approach? You may. We're going to swap out one and give you another.

[06:07:58] Speaker 32:

Recognize that jacket?

[06:08:00] Speaker 41:

Yes. Can you tell me what that is?

[06:08:01] Speaker 32:

Just stay on the microphone so we can hear you.

[06:08:03] Speaker 41:

Sorry.

[06:08:08] Speaker 35:

Can you tell me how you recognize that jacket?

[06:08:12] Speaker 36:

As Anna's jacket, one that she wore.

[06:08:15] Speaker 35:

Your Honor, it asks that this be the next exhibit.

[06:08:18] Speaker 32:

All right, any objection to that?

[06:08:20] Speaker 35:

None, thank you.

[06:08:21] Speaker 32:

Jurors, that'll be marked into an evidence as exhibit 264 photo of Anna the jurors. The face of Anna Walsh is blurred out for that photo, but there's no dispute that that is a photo of her in the jacket, in a jacket. Thank you. 265? Oh, yes. Thank you. 265, yes. You may.

[06:09:26] Speaker 35:

Thank you. Thank you very much.

[06:09:38] Speaker 32:

Cross.

[06:09:39] Speaker 35:

Thank you.

[06:09:45] Speaker 44:

Good afternoon, Ms. Curley.

[06:09:46] Speaker 36:

Good afternoon.

[06:09:48] Speaker 44:

It sounds like you and Anna got very close very fast.

[06:09:52] Speaker 36:

Yes.

[06:09:54] Speaker 44:

When she was down there, you guys would try to see each other about once a week?

[06:10:00] Speaker 36:

Yeah.

[06:10:00] Speaker 44:

Okay. And while she was down there, she was working for Tishman Spire?

[06:10:06] Speaker 36:

Yes.

[06:10:08] Speaker 44:

And obviously you would text or talk on the phone sometimes during the week? Yes. And sometimes go for coffee walks around the neighborhoods?

[06:10:19] Speaker 36:

Not coffee, but often walks or we would meet up, yeah.

[06:10:22] Speaker 44:

I'm imposing my own desire in that, okay. Okay. And her work schedule was pretty demanding while she was down in DC.

[06:10:32] Speaker 36:

Yes.

[06:10:33] Speaker 44:

And it wasn't uncommon that she would work until seven or eight o'clock at night?

[06:10:38] Speaker 36:

Yeah, that was what she would tell me, yes.

[06:10:40] Speaker 44:

Okay. And then on top of that, she was flying back and forth to Boston on Thursdays or Fridays and returning on Sunday nights or Mondays?

[06:10:48] Speaker 36:

Yeah, often Mondays and then returning Thursday or Friday.

[06:10:51] Speaker 44:

Okay. I want to talk to you a little bit about that Christmas Day phone call from Mr. Walsh.

[06:10:57] Speaker 36:

Okay.

[06:10:57] Speaker 44:

You had mentioned that it was not common or out of the ordinary for him to have called you. Yes. Okay. And I think you described him on that call as nervous and worried, right? Yes. And this was Christmas Day? Yes. And I think you told us it was about noon or a little bit past noon when he had reached out to you? And what he said is that he and the boys were expecting her home for Christmas and he hadn't heard from her.

[06:11:25] Speaker 36:

What I recall he said was just ask me if I had heard from her because he hadn't heard from her.

[06:11:29] Speaker 44:

OK. And because of that nervousness or worry in his voice, you actually offered to go swing by her house to see if she was there.

[06:11:38] Speaker 36:

Yeah, I thought that she was already back home for Christmas. And so that worried me. So I offered to go.

[06:11:46] Speaker 44:

Okay. And I think you said within 10 or 15 minutes, he actually reached out to be like, we're good. She reached out to me. She's okay.

[06:11:54] Speaker 36:

He said he'd heard from her.

[06:11:55] Speaker 44:

Okay. You had told us that you had also spoken to Anna on the 25th on the telephone. Yes. And you were telling us that she was angry and upset that Mr. Walsh had called you.

[06:12:10] Speaker 36:

Yes, she was angry that, you know, he had bothered me that day with that because she felt it had not been that long since they had spoken.

[06:12:20] Speaker 44:

Okay, so it was Christmas Day and she was upset that he bothered you on a holiday and that he worried you. You had mentioned that Anna had a friend named William Fastow. Yes. Okay. And I think you told us that she shared with you that she had a crush on him.

[06:12:45] Speaker 36:

Yes.

[06:12:46] Speaker 44:

And she told you that she told her husband that she had a crush on him.

[06:12:51] Speaker 36:

Yes.

[06:12:52] Speaker 44:

And that Ana, when she was talking about sharing that with her husband, that they always had an open, honest relationship.

[06:13:00] Speaker 36:

Yes, that was what she said.

[06:13:02] Speaker 44:

Okay. And in that conversation when she was telling you about how she had told her husband about having a crush on Will, that Brian wasn't the jealous type?

[06:13:13] Speaker 36:

When she told me that, I was surprised. And she said that was the relationship. They were open, and that he wasn't jealous.

[06:13:23] Speaker 44:

And not only was he not jealous, that she kind of wished he was a little more jealous.

[06:13:29] Speaker 36:

I think in the way that a wife would want a husband to be protective, yes.

[06:13:36] Speaker 44:

And during the time you were friends in DC with Anna, and during these conversations, she never told you that she was having a romantic relationship with Will Fastow?

[06:13:50] Speaker 36:

Not specifically, no. We talked a lot about Will, but not that anything had ever actually happened.

[06:13:57] Speaker 44:

OK. So you believe that they had a connection and she had a crush, but she never told you that they had been romantic or intimate? Correct. I think you had said that during this conversation on the 29th, Anna had said that lately she was just feeling drained of energy, right?

[06:14:22] Speaker 36:

Drained of energy is due to everything going on, yeah.

[06:14:26] Speaker 44:

Okay. And she had also told you that she was someone that would stay up late and get up early in the morning, right?

[06:14:35] Speaker 36:

I think she kept a busy schedule, not that she specifically always stayed up late and got up early, but that, you know, she was doing on. She just was a very energetic, passionate person.

[06:14:47] Speaker 44:

And towards the end of December, there was a shift. There was a change in that.

[06:14:51] Speaker 36:

Yes.

[06:14:52] Speaker 44:

And she told you that she was falling asleep earlier and getting up later, and that was unusual for her.

[06:14:57] Speaker 36:

Yeah, that she was really just starting to be sad and everything was taking a toll on her.

[06:15:04] Speaker 44:

Okay. But when she was reporting this to you, she was talking about how even sleep, that she was falling asleep earlier, falling asleep earlier in the night, she was sleeping later in the morning than she usually would.

[06:15:17] Speaker 36:

I don't recall that exactly, just that she said that she felt so tired and burnt out.

[06:15:22] Speaker 44:

Okay. You had mentioned that you had plans to get together on 12-29, but you also had had plans to go out on December 20th, the week before.

[06:15:38] Speaker 36:

I don't think I remember that exactly. Okay. But we often would try to make plans and then things would shuffle, so.

[06:15:45] Speaker 44:

Okay. The plans I'm talking about on the 20th, she had canceled because she wasn't feeling well.

[06:15:50] Speaker 36:

Right, yes. Okay.

[06:15:53] Speaker 44:

You shared with us during that long night out with Anna that the two of you were talking a lot about how it was difficult that she was away from her family. Yes.

[06:16:12] Speaker 36:

Yes.

[06:16:13] Speaker 44:

Okay. I apologize. And she told you that she said to Brian, you know, you need to resolve this, even if you go to jail, we'll be here for you when you get out.

[06:16:27] Speaker 36:

She didn't specifically say like this than this. It was more like a conversation about taking responsibility, accountability, what that would mean, that that could mean just owning it and taking the jail time if that was what, because the sentencing hadn't happened, so we didn't know exactly what it would be, but that was something she wanted for him to take care of their family in that way, just take responsibility, have it be done.

[06:16:55] Speaker 44:

And I think you told us earlier on direct that she said to him, we'll be there even if that happens, meaning her and the boys.

[06:17:06] Speaker 36:

And I don't think she said that directly. It was more like communicating to me that she wanted their family to be together, even if that meant jail time. I think they were still figuring out what to do. They had been living apart, and she wasn't sure what would happen.

[06:17:28] Speaker 44:

And so what you're telling us is that she wanted her family together, and that she wanted him to do whatever it took so that her and Brian and the boys could be together. Yeah.

[06:17:41] Speaker 32:

Nothing further, Your Honor. Any redirect?

[06:17:50] Speaker 35:

Ms. Kirby, did she want her family together?

[06:17:53] Speaker 44:

Objection, Your Honor.

[06:17:57] Speaker 32:

She stated it. She can answer it. So rephrase the question.

[06:18:01] Speaker 35:

On December 29th, did she tell you, did she want her family together? I think.

[06:18:14] Speaker 32:

Objection your honor. Listen to the question, answer the question if you can.

[06:18:20] Speaker 35:

On December 29th, what did she tell you about if she wanted her family together?

[06:18:30] Speaker 36:

She said that she wanted her family together. She also was exhausted and not really sure what to do, but I think she wanted her.

[06:18:43] Speaker 35:

All right, sustained. On December 29th, what did she tell you about if she loved the defendant, Brian Walsh?

[06:18:59] Speaker 36:

She told me that he would often not tell her he loved her and would always ask her how much she was in love with him and that she told me that this time she answered not as much because of everything that had happened. Yeah, that she was falling out of love and also that she wanted, you know, I think she saw.

[06:19:32] Speaker 32:

Again, I know it's a long time ago, but it has to be the statement she made to you, not what you think or what you understood from it. It's statements that she made to you.

[06:19:44] Speaker 35:

Okay, sorry. And on December 29th of 2022, How did she physically appear to you? Tired. And on December 29th of 2022, did you go out to karaoke? Yes. And did she go dancing?

[06:20:07] Speaker 36:

Yeah, it was karaoke dancing. Thank you.

[06:20:12] Speaker 32:

Any recross?

[06:20:14] Speaker 41:

No, thank you.

[06:20:15] Speaker 31:

The witness may step down, thank you. I'll see council at the side of the bench.

[06:21:24] Speaker 49:

Thank you.

[06:21:56] UNKNOWN:

you

[06:22:32] Speaker 32:

Jurors, I'm gonna read another stipulation to you now. And this is a stipulation, again, federal prosecution Brian Walsh. Brian Walsh was arraigned in the United States District Court for the District of Massachusetts in Boston, Massachusetts on May 11, 2018. On April 1, 2021, Brian Walsh pled guilty to indictments for wire fraud and his transportation was reportedly schemed to defraud and conducting an unlawful monetary transaction. On October 6, 2021, an initial sentencing hearing took place in the United States District Court. Ryan Walsh was seeking a sentence of probation and restitution while the government, through the United States Attorney's Office, was seeking a sentence which included incarceration of 30 to 37 months, restitution in the amount of approximately $475,000, January 2023, Brian Walsh had not been sentenced on the federal charges. Brian Walsh was represented by a lawyer in all stages of this federal case. Colm Walsh may call the next witness.

[06:24:08] Speaker 09:

Your Honor, the Colm Walsh rests. All right, thank you.

[06:24:15] Speaker 32:

With that, jurors, I told you that this case proceeds in chapter the Commonwealth has presented all the evidence that he wishes to present in this case. As I've told you from the beginning, there is no obligation, no burden on the defendant to do anything. And so I remind you of that. The burden does not rest with the defendant. All the burden of proof is always on the Commonwealth, and it stays always on the Commonwealth. The defendant has the option to present evidence that he wishes to I'm going to suspend the hearings for today, and I'll see you back tomorrow at 9 o'clock, ready to begin the day. Thank you very much. And before we leave, I remind you, don't do any research about this case. Don't go on social media or any news media. Don't speak to anyone about this case, and continue to have open minds as you receive the evidence in this trial.

[06:25:18] Speaker 13:

Have a good night, jurors.

[06:26:02] Speaker 47:

Have you seen it?

[06:26:20] Speaker 32:

What do we need to discuss?

[06:26:24] Speaker 14:

First, we probably need to discuss, uh, the defendant would move for required finding an active.

[06:26:28] Speaker 31:

Go right ahead.

[06:26:32] Speaker 32:

second to read your pleading. All right, I'll hear from you.

[06:27:31] Speaker 14:

For the most part, Judge, I'm just going to rely on that pleading. But what's important in this case for purposes of arguing the Latimore standard and the required findings is that in the facts and circumstances of this case, even if you consider all of the evidence in the light most favorable to the commonwealth, that the circumstantial evidence in the inferences have not been proven on the elements of premeditation and intent. And it's important to distinguish the fact that where inferences can be reasonable when they have to do with other factual issues that do not constitute the specific elements of the crime charged here, The inference must be beyond a reasonable doubt because it must support the element of premeditated murder and it must support the specific intent to kill. And whereas the Commonwealth has based their whole prosecution on what we characterize as a three-pronged approach, that motive evidence that they theorize supports an inference of intent and premeditation, they have failed to present the type of quantity and quality of evidence that would then result in an inference beyond a reasonable doubt that Mr. Walsh ever premeditated a murder or ever manifested the specific intent to kill. The three-prong approach that the Commonwealth took in this case was that Mr. Walsh was motivated by financial interest, which has not been established, by any inference sufficient to carry the day, even on the Latimore standard. The second prong is that somehow Mr. Walsh was using his children and his role as primary care provider to avoid going to prison, and that has not been established by any sufficient evidence. And then there's the third problem, and it has to do with the affair. And where it seems clear that the Commonwealth has established that Anna Walsh did, in fact, engage in an intimate affair with William Fastow, they have failed to establish sufficiently to withstand the Latimore standard that he even knew about the affair. In fact, if you consider the evidence and the light most favorable to the Commonwealth from their own witnesses, There is no evidence presented to this jury that he knew about the affair, that he reacted to any knowledge of the affair. In fact, the reaction that he had fell far short of someone that was even jealous of the fact that Ms. Walsh reported to him specifically that she had a crush on Mr. Festo. And I understand, we understand that whereas motive is not an element, that's not what we're arguing. And I say in our motion that if the government stands up and says since motive is not an element, that the argument that we just made doesn't apply. Well, that messes the point because that is the whole foundation of their prosecution in this case. And so respectfully, Judge, in the unusual circumstances and the complex circumstances presented in this case, I would ask that a required finding be entered on indictment 001.

[06:31:34] Speaker 32:

Thank you.

[06:31:37] Speaker 45:

Thank you, Your Honor. Mute in the light most favorable to the Commonwealth, the evidence is sufficient for a jury to find the defendant guilty of the premeditated murder of Anna Walsh. Your Honor, as to evidence that the defendant killed Anna Walsh, the defendant was the only adult in the House on January 1st after Mr. Mootloo left. There's evidence before the court that Anna was a fit and active 39-year-old, and in fact that she participated in a vigorous exercise class at Bar Method on the 31st of December, where she demonstrated that she was in good physical condition. Evidence of the bloody slippers, bloody bath towels, bloody carpet on his broken Gucci necklace, combined with the defendant's internet searches about cleaning blood from wood floors, his purchase of large quantities of cleaning products, are sufficient for the jury to find that Anna met a violent death in the living quarters of 516 Chief Justice Cushing Highway. To also point out there was a cut on the defendant's thumb, and there was evidence that he did purchase band-aids and some antibiotic cream on January 1st. As to deliberate premeditations, there's evidence that the defendant was aware of Anna's relationship with another man. He told police that he monitored the Chase credit card statement. That is an evidence before the court. That statement includes a purchase of a plane ticket to Dublin over the Thanksgiving holiday in 2022. The defendant was aware of Ana's itinerary. He told police that he had suggested that she go out during a layover in Frankfurt, which she did have a layover in Frankfurt at one point of that travel. And again, looking at that travel, it's clear that looking at the chase statement that it was indicated a trip to Dublin. The defendant told police that she had only gone to Serbia to see her mother. And I suggest the evidence is more than sufficient to find that he was aware of that trip to Dublin. He also searched Will Fastow's name on December 25th, and he also researched emergencies in buildings that Anna managed in D.C. I'd also point out that the defendant's phone, which he said was mislaid from December 31st to January 2nd, he told Mr. Mutlu that when Mr. Mutlu came for the New Year's Eve dinner. That phone was repeatedly unlocked and connected to a power source while it was supposedly missing. The evidence indicates that the defendant used that phone to create an alibi for himself. It explains why he was not contacting Anna. And then when he did say he recovered the phone, he started sending text messages to Anna, and he later showed those messages to police. It suggests he was using the missing phone as a way to create an alibi for himself. and to explain why he didn't have the phone with him when he went to Vin and Liquors and threw something into the dumpster, or when he was in Lowe's buying cleaning supplies and cutting tools on January 1st. Your Honor, there's also ample evidence of motive. There's evidence that the jury can find that if Anna took the children to DC, the possibility of the defendant avoiding jail time on the federal charges would lessen. We heard testimony today about the impact of that on Anna and what she intended to do. Anna also had life insurance policies and financial accounts, which the defendant was the named beneficiary, and he stood to inherit substantial funds if Anna Walsh were deceased. And also, Your Honor, the defendant's elaborate web of lies regarding Anna allegedly leaving for a work emergency in DC. He lied to friends, family, and the police about that. I suggest that that also is sufficient evidence to give this case to the jury and would ask that you deny that motion for required finding of not guilty.

[06:35:18] Speaker 32:

All right. The Latimer standard dictates that I take every inference all the evidence and all the reasonable inferences from that evidence in the light most favorable to the Commonwealth. Adopting that standard, I'm not convinced by the defendant's motion. I'm not going to repeat the evidence that the Commonwealth has just in brief summarized for the court. That evidence that this jury has heard and seeing is adequate to allow the jury to deliberate the case in that, again, drawing all the inferences, reasonable inferences from the evidence that's before this jury, there is sufficient evidence for this case to go to the jury for them to determine the three elements that are before them. But it gets over the Latimer standard. So the defendant's motion is denied.

[06:36:26] Speaker 16:

We would just object to it.

[06:36:28] Speaker 32:

I understand. You indicated to me at the side of the bench, there were some evidentiary issues you wanted to address with me.

[06:36:50] Speaker 44:

Can we go to the sidebar for these, Your Honor?

[06:36:52] Speaker 32:

Yes, you may.

[06:37:03] Speaker 49:

you Thank you. you

[06:40:32] UNKNOWN:

you

[06:42:53] Speaker 49:

you

[06:45:29] UNKNOWN:

you Thank you.

[06:47:13] Speaker 49:

you

[06:47:54] UNKNOWN:

you

[06:48:38] Speaker 49:

.

[06:48:58] UNKNOWN:

.

[06:49:18] Speaker 49:

Thank you.

[06:50:26] UNKNOWN:

you

[06:51:02] Speaker 49:

you Thank you.

[06:53:06] Speaker 32:

All right. So I think that we all have our tasks for the evening. And I'll see you back tomorrow if anybody need anything. All right. Thank you very much, everyone. Thank you, Your Honor.

[06:53:39] UNKNOWN:

you