Complete transcript with timestamps and conservative speaker identification.
[00:10:21] UNKNOWN:
you . . Thank you.
[00:14:24] Speaker 02:
Thank you.
[00:18:37] UNKNOWN:
Thank you. you you . . This is just, yeah, no, I don't, I mean, I'll have him handy in case he says they don't really have him for the case, but I can't imagine that's the case. Thank you. Thank you. you Okay. you Thanks. . . Thank you. you Thank you. Thank you.
[00:34:23] Commonwealth:
Good morning, your honor. Greg Connor for the Commonwealth.
[00:34:27] Commonwealth:
Good morning. Good morning, your honor. Anne Yaz for the Commonwealth.
[00:34:30] Commonwealth:
Good morning, your honor. Tracy Cusick for the Commonwealth. Good morning. Good morning, your honor. Good morning, everyone. Kelly Porges on behalf of Mr. Walsh.
[00:34:36] Speaker 30:
Good morning.
[00:34:36] Defense:
Good morning, your honor. Larry Tipton for Mr. Walsh. Welcome to all of you. Just give me a minute. Sorry for the late start. All right.
[00:35:14] Speaker 00:
You are unmuted.
[00:35:15] Commonwealth:
Sorry, Your Honor. This is a screenshot that the government took from the video they initially wanted to introduce, specifically and solely just to show a particular carpet in the Walsh home. We agreed on a screenshot. However, this screenshot, frankly, is just as inflammatory as the video. There's certainly more ways to crop this photograph. We've also been more than willing to stipulate that the rug in question was originally in the Walsh home in that room. I don't think we need this particular picture in this case in front of the jury to serve the purpose they needed to serve.
[00:35:50] Commonwealth:
Okay. Your honor, I would suggest not inflammatory. It simply is what we've done is after you made a recommendation of doing a screenshot, we took the initial image of the video and put that on there. It clearly shows the rug, the victim.
[00:36:05] Defense:
Is there any other part of the video? I don't remember because it's been a while since I've looked at it that includes Ana without the child. No, I believe it's her. Because I remember that the child falls off. He sits on her head. Are there other parts of the video that you can crop back so that you're showing just her in the rug and not one of the children?
[00:36:33] Commonwealth:
I will look, Your Honor. My memory is it doesn't work that way because the other two children are there and they're walking in and out of the frame.
[00:36:39] Defense:
Okay. But there may be just a picture where it's just her and somebody's feet Why don't you look at that and see an alternate would be to, as I did in my chambers, take a piece of paper and just across the band where the child is most dominant or alternately, I am sure that somebody well above my my capabilities, but I'm sure that somebody could edit out the child entirely.
[00:37:17] Commonwealth:
So it's just so we understand the position is to try and keep the children out of it entirely.
[00:37:21] Defense:
I think that the Commonwealth is entitled to show the jury the rug, even if the defendant is willing to stipulate to it. But I want to do it in the least inflammatory way as possible. And so if there's a better alternative, and I think there might be, But again, I haven't watched it in a while. And by better alternative to me, that's a video or a still, excuse me, that shows the rug and Anna and less of, if not any children.
[00:37:52] Commonwealth:
I mean, Your Honor, you can, if you just even cut that picture in half.
[00:37:57] Defense:
Well, you know, if you excise the child from the photo, it just looks like she's on her back doing like a yoga move or something. I don't know.
[00:38:05] Commonwealth:
I'll be honest, I don't love that either. And I don't. Well, I mean, there's a way just to even if you crop it, it doesn't need to be a giant photograph, particularly. I understand they have a right to put on their case, but we're not going to cross challenge or say this is not the rug. So all they really need to do is establish a photograph of the rug in the home.
[00:38:24] Defense:
Well, said this, and I'll say it a couple of times. The Commonwealth has the burden, the Commonwealth within the rules and within the bounds gets to show their case, present their case as they wish. And having this visual of her on the rug has an impact. I would like to make it more neutral without the child in there. And so see if you can work on that. I will, Your Honor. While I'm talking about things that you should work on, Madam Clerk. I want you to look at the William Fastow text messages with the following in mind, because it's likely where I'm going to draw the line, although I'll hear from you. I've read your pleadings. I think there is classic state of mind evidence in those, embedded in those. In particular, there's different places where it is, but probably the most classic is where there's a comment by Anna after She's giving him some parenting advice. And she says something to the effect of, I shouldn't be giving any parenting advice. My life is completely messed up. You know that exchange? Yes, Your Honor. That's likely coming in as state of mind evidence. But there's a lot of other stuff in there where they're talking back and forth about child rearing things. that I think is irrelevant to the jury's fact-finding. So I'm going to put it back on the Commonwealth today to pare that back to what you think is relevant and state-of-mind evidence, relevant otherwise and possibly state-of-mind evidence.
[00:40:10] Commonwealth:
Understood.
[00:40:11] Defense:
All right. And then the defense can... argue with regard to that, but I think there's some pretty classic state of mind embedded in those texts. And it also raises the issue which we've discussed a number of times throughout the case. What are the reasonable inferences that can be drawn from the statements that Mr. Walsh made in I think it's at least three separate spots of his now play to the jury interviews with regard to what he was or was not seeing And by that I mean trying to be as clear with you as I can. He says at least two times, once on the seventh, at least once on the seventh, or twice on the seventh, and once on the eighth. He is asked about the evening's events, and he ties Anna sending a text message to William Fastow. to when Thomas went to bed. And we know from the Fastow text messages that that was sent at 10.07. His memory was good. The kid went to bed sometime between 10 and 10.30. So we know from his own statements that he knew that Anna sent that to Will Fastow that night. So it seems to me that there's one of two reasonable inferences that could be drawn from those statements of the defendant. One is that he knew it because he observed her texting the message in the kitchen or in the family room, wherever they were, when she sent that message. Could you argue that that's unlikely in light of what the other contents of the evening's texts were? That is, if Anna were having an affair, and she was with William Fastow, would you be showing your husband the texts that you're sending? The other inference is that he knew of it also because he was, as he said, I'm getting your messages. And so you're gonna have vastly different views on what the reasonable inference is the jury can draw from that evidence. But as an evidentiary ruling as to whether it comes in or not, I want you to be focused on There was comments on the seventh, I think there's another comment on the eighth, and either in the earliest of interviews, either the fourth or the fifth, there's a comment with regard to where he says somehow her messages are showing. I don't know how, it's more generalized comment. I know you're gonna make the iMessenger argument and I cut you off from that yesterday, frankly, because I think that's for the jury to decide what that meant and not for any witness to decide for the jury what that meant. All right, the other things I wanna talk about. I have not given this jury a consciousness of guilt instruction. And many times yesterday I was thinking, when? And you're not asking for it, and I understand why you're not asking for it, and I just want to make sure that we're on the same page with regard to why I haven't given it yet. It seems to me that both the Commonwealth and the defense are being scrupulous in your description of the searches in the sense of you both refer to whoever the user of the device was making these searches. The witness has, I presume, been coached appropriately, I don't mean it in any pejorative way, to say the user of the computer. did these searches and not the defendant did these searches. If it was that the defendant did these searches, the consciousness of guilt instruction would have been given some time ago. Now, what sort of, I don't want to say muddies the water, but the defense opened on the fact that the defendant lied to the police. It seems to me that As soon as you believe that link has been made between the other conduct of either concealing the evidence in this case, the defendant concealing, not the user concealing, the defendant concealing the evidence in this case, or the defendant lying to the police. I know you opened it on it, but the evidence before the story doesn't include your opening. But when it becomes apparent to the jury that the defendant lied to the police, or the defendant is the person who was doing those searches, the consciousness of guilt instruction should be given. And I'm either going to do that sua sponte, or you're urging. And your version of when that becomes apparent might be different. So raise it with me if you think I'm missing out on something.
[00:45:38] Commonwealth:
Do you understand? I do, Your Honor. Thank you.
[00:45:41] Speaker 41:
Defense? I understand what you said, Judge. We'll be objecting. But I wonder, before you gave it, if you could just either give us a copy of the specific conscience of guilt.
[00:45:53] Defense:
Yeah. Well, I wasn't going to go fancy. I'm happy to look at it. Why don't you come over here?
[00:46:19] Speaker 02:
you Thank you. .
[00:48:36] UNKNOWN:
.
[00:49:00] Speaker 02:
Thank you.
[00:49:32] UNKNOWN:
Thank you.
[00:50:12] Speaker 02:
Thank you.
[00:51:21] UNKNOWN:
Thanks.
[00:52:06] Defense:
Council, can I just see you for one more second for something else that you want to say?
[00:52:48] Speaker 02:
you .
[00:53:45] UNKNOWN:
.
[00:54:37] Speaker 02:
.
[00:54:49] UNKNOWN:
. you
[00:56:01] Speaker 02:
.
[00:56:17] UNKNOWN:
.
[00:57:29] Speaker 02:
you .
[00:59:10] UNKNOWN:
. Thank you.
[01:00:17] Speaker 40:
Good morning jurors and welcome back.
[01:00:35] Defense:
Jurors, we'll start today with the four questions. Jurors, were you able to comply with my order that you not go on any social media and that you not go on any news media? Were you able to comply with my order that you not speak to anyone about the case? And were you able to comply with my order that you're not doing your research about the case? And do you all still have open minds? Those four questions all answered in the affirmative by all 16 jurors in the box. We're ready to begin today's work. We can have the witness back on the stand. Tropical Green, why were you not? Morning. Just to understand you're still under oath. You may be seated. Good morning, sir.
[01:02:13] Speaker 15:
Good morning.
[01:02:19] Speaker 41:
So just a couple of recaps here. That binder that's been marked is exhibit 79. The binder of the history that you included of the MacBook gray device. We can all agree it contains 3,677 records as you defined them yesterday.
[01:02:43] Witness:
Yes, well, half technically because they're duplicates. It shows the first one from the parsed and the second one from the carved, but they're the same. Same record, so it'd be about, what, 1,800-ish, realistically.
[01:02:55] Speaker 41:
I don't understand your answer.
[01:02:56] Witness:
So if you look at the binder, it shows one record, say record number one, shows the information, the parsed information, and then this record number two shows carved. It's the same date and time stamp, the same information, just a different location in the database. So it's almost duplicated.
[01:03:16] Speaker 41:
OK. Here's my question.
[01:03:19] Witness:
Yes.
[01:03:19] Speaker 41:
In the binder that's been marked exhibit 79, you listed 3,677 records. Yes. And it totals 1,034 pages.
[01:03:33] Witness:
I'll take your word. I don't have it in front of me, but yes.
[01:03:38] Speaker 41:
Do you have a copy of it?
[01:03:40] Witness:
I don't up here with me now.
[01:03:45] Defense:
Mustn't have gone far. We can find it.
[01:03:52] Speaker 41:
Yesterday you testified to the binder that was admitted as Exhibit 80, and that was regarding the iPad Mini. Yes. It involved two separate extractions.
[01:04:19] Witness:
Same extraction, but two different versions of the software, yes.
[01:04:25] Speaker 41:
Wasn't it labeled extraction one and extraction two?
[01:04:29] Witness:
I didn't label it that, but that's how it is labeled, yes.
[01:04:31] Speaker 41:
In any event? It's clear now, isn't it, based on your forensic analysis, that the searches that were found on the iPad were not conducted on the iPad.
[01:04:49] Witness:
Yes, that is correct.
[01:04:51] Speaker 41:
That you used the term sync yesterday, right?
[01:04:55] Witness:
Yes, that is correct.
[01:04:56] Speaker 41:
And you used the word sync in the context of the searches based on your forensic analysis originally on the great map.
[01:05:03] Witness:
That is correct.
[01:05:08] Speaker 41:
And when we say sync, and when you say sync, it means that, in part, that No one manipulated that iPad Mini with regards to all the searches that this jury's heard about. That's correct, yes. You told us yesterday that there are multiple records, as you defined it, records in this exhibit 79 that have the same timestamp, correct?
[01:05:42] Witness:
for this binder here, the 79.
[01:05:45] Speaker 41:
Yes, sir.
[01:05:45] Witness:
Yes, that's correct.
[01:05:47] Speaker 41:
And you told us specifically, if I heard you right, that does not mean that there were multiple searches with the identical timestamp, correct? Yes, that's correct. And it does not mean that the website that's referred to in each one of those duplicate records, it doesn't mean that that website was visited twice.
[01:06:09] Witness:
Unless the VISA count says twice, then yes, but like I said, that parsed and carved record, there's the same record of the same thing that happened, just different spots pulled from the database.
[01:06:23] Speaker 41:
And you did not, in what's been marked Exhibit 79, you did not indicate to whoever looks at Exhibit 79, what were those duplicate records?
[01:06:36] Witness:
I did.
[01:06:37] Speaker 41:
How'd you do that?
[01:06:39] Witness:
I spoke with the prosecution, our ADAs, and explained what this is and how it parses out the data and when it prints out.
[01:06:49] Speaker 41:
What I'm asking you, though, is when someone opens up that book, and let's just say someone like a juror, when they open up that book, there's nothing dedicated to them out of those 3,677 quote directives. Which one is duplicative and which one is not?
[01:07:07] Witness:
I just testified to it now and also on direct and it also shows in the book the same date and time stamp and I explained the parsed and carved records. I don't have a paper written report if that's what you're trying to infer. Paper written or handwritten report if that's what you're trying to infer.
[01:07:26] Speaker 41:
I'm really not trying anything. I'm just asking you that if someone were to look at those 3,677 records There's no term used that says this is a multiple, this is a duplicate of record one or record two. It says nothing like that in the book, does it?
[01:07:46] Defense:
Objection. You can answer.
[01:07:48] Witness:
I don't fully understand. You're asking if there's something that says that one's a duplicate and one's not?
[01:07:56] Speaker 41:
That's, I've asked, yes, that's what I'm asking.
[01:07:59] Witness:
By the same date and time stamp on the record and as I explained the Parson card, but I don't know if there's anything, like there's no key guide that says what it is, if that's what you mean.
[01:08:11] Speaker 41:
And yesterday you also told us about something called redirects, correct? Yes. And that there, a redirect means that the computer or the device on its own, with the software, with the browser, redirected the user to another website?
[01:08:34] Witness:
When they click on a website, it can redirect, yes.
[01:08:37] Speaker 41:
OK. And it's the device and the software operating within the device that determines a redirect. It is not the user. That is correct. And you don't have anything in this 3,677 records. You don't have, we'll use your reference, an index or anything to indicate the reader of this exhibit 79, what are redirects and what are not. That's correct. And you have no idea how many, quote, redirects occurred or occur within this exhibit 79.
[01:09:18] Witness:
Just the few that I saw, so I don't know, I don't have an exact number.
[01:09:23] Speaker 41:
Okay. You would agree that with regards to Exhibit 79, that there was no activity on the gray MacBook between 3.50 a.m. and 4.52 a.m.?
[01:09:43] Witness:
On what day?
[01:09:46] Speaker 41:
January 1st of 2023.
[01:09:50] Witness:
Again, I'd have to double check. I remember there was Gmail usage around the 3 a.m. point, and then for 52, there was some searches, but I don't know if there was anything in that time frame in between.
[01:10:08] Speaker 41:
If you will, sir, maybe you could check.
[01:10:29] Speaker 03:
Can I see the side of the van?
[01:11:08] Speaker 02:
. . you
[01:12:24] UNKNOWN:
Thank you.
[01:12:49] Witness:
Did you find that? Yes, I have it here, sir. Thank you. Yes, you're correct. 350 a.m. is record 1947 and the following record is 1948 at 452 a.m.
[01:13:02] Speaker 41:
Yesterday you testified that you recalled, or you thought you recalled, references to William Fastow within the MacBook data.
[01:13:11] Witness:
That's correct.
[01:13:13] Speaker 41:
Do you know where that is?
[01:13:15] Witness:
No, I don't.
[01:13:18] Speaker 41:
Can you indicate, well, you just said no, you don't. Trippagorino, if I represented to you that there is absolutely no reference to William Fastow within these 3,677 records, would you agree with that?
[01:13:36] Witness:
I don't know. I don't remember. I remember seeing it somewhere, but I don't know if it was in the MacBook. There's, like I said, a lot of data.
[01:13:46] Speaker 41:
It's fair to say, isn't it, that your examination of exhibit that's contained in exhibit 79, there's no indication that that MacBook and any user of that MacBook ever accessed Anna Walsh's iMessages.
[01:14:07] Witness:
Her iMessages? No, I never saw any indication of that.
[01:14:12] Speaker 41:
I'm going to refer you to page 555, record 2055.
[01:14:23] Witness:
What record number you said, 2055?
[01:14:25] Speaker 41:
2055.
[01:14:26] Witness:
Okay, got it.
[01:14:30] Speaker 41:
And that search query is, what is disposal of dead bodies? That's correct. There's no reference to murder in that query, correct?
[01:14:39] Witness:
That's correct.
[01:14:39] Speaker 41:
And that query occurred at 63618, correct?
[01:14:44] Witness:
Yes, that's correct.
[01:14:46] Speaker 41:
I'm going to refer you to page, stay on that same page, page 555, record 2057. Okay. It occurred at 63622. Yes. And it regards body disposal options. Yes. No reference to murder, the word murder, correct?
[01:15:07] Speaker 19:
That's correct.
[01:15:08] Speaker 41:
Turning to the next page, 556, record 2059. That occurred at 63630, correct?
[01:15:20] Witness:
Yes, that's correct.
[01:15:21] Speaker 41:
The search query involves cool ways to be buried, correct? That's correct. There's no reference to murder, correct? That's correct. Page 557, record number 2061. Okay. That occurred at 6-36-33. Yes. And it's a query of above ground burial options, correct? That's correct. And there's no reference to murder?
[01:15:54] Witness:
Yes, that's correct.
[01:15:56] Speaker 41:
Yesterday you did testify to some search queries that did include the word murder, correct? That's correct. And you would agree that these searches that we're talking to the jury about today, they began at 442 on January 1st of 2023. 452, but yes. Okay, 452. The first time the term murder was introduced in these searches was at page 596, record 2185. That's correct, isn't it?
[01:16:38] Witness:
I don't know. I haven't memorized all of these, as you can tell. I know you're looking. What record number, you said?
[01:16:45] Speaker 41:
Page 596, record 2185.
[01:16:48] Witness:
Yes, I have that here.
[01:16:54] Speaker 41:
OK, I'm sorry.
[01:16:55] Witness:
I cut you off. I was going to say, I see it here. I don't know. I believe there's any other things with murder in the keyword search prior. I'm sorry? I don't know if there's any other keywords searches for Google with the word murder in it prior to this one. Again, like I said, I haven't memorized all of these records. It's quite a bit of them.
[01:17:18] Speaker 41:
Well, if I represent it to you that the first time the word murder appears in these searches is at page 596, record 2185. Would you agree with me?
[01:17:29] Witness:
I see it here, so I can just take your word for it.
[01:17:31] Speaker 41:
Okay. And that occurred at 11, 28, 43 a.m.
[01:17:38] Witness:
Yes, that's correct.
[01:17:39] Speaker 41:
So the first time the word murder appeared in all these records was approximately six hours after these searches began.
[01:17:55] Witness:
Again, I'd have to take your word for it, but it seems that.
[01:18:00] Speaker 41:
And that search that we just talked about, the search at 596, record 2185, the one we just spoke about, that occurred right after a search at 595, record 2181, where the query is best way to dispose of body parts quietly.
[01:18:23] Speaker 19:
That's correct.
[01:18:25] Speaker 41:
And that occurred at 1127.56 a.m., correct? Yes. So yesterday, I asked you some questions about the use of additional terms to get a different search result. You remember those questions? Yes, sir. And that is one example in Exhibit 79, where first a search inquiry did not use the word murder, and then it did use the word murder to get different results, correct?
[01:18:58] Witness:
I can't speak to the user's frame of mind when they're searching for something. I can just say yes or no to what the data shows. So those search terms have it. Some don't. But I can't speak to why someone is searching what they're searching.
[01:19:19] Speaker 41:
You testified yesterday, and I'm going to give you a site, page 694, record 2507. If you can turn to that. Yeah, sorry. Page 694, record 2507. Okay. And that has to do with a query about hard drive removal. Yes. Correct? It's fair to say that that... Tell us when that search occurred.
[01:19:52] Witness:
January 2nd, 2023 at 2.01.19 a.m.
[01:19:58] Speaker 41:
Now, you're aware of the fact that certain devices, all made by Apple, were first turned over voluntarily to the police on January 6th of 2023?
[01:20:12] Witness:
No, that's not true.
[01:20:17] Speaker 41:
You would agree that certain devices were turned over to the police on January 6th of 2023?
[01:20:25] Witness:
Yes, certain devices were.
[01:20:30] Speaker 41:
When those devices were turned over, those devices were examined, correct?
[01:20:35] Witness:
Yes, they were.
[01:20:36] Speaker 41:
And all the hard drives were intact in all those devices?
[01:20:42] Witness:
Yes, they were.
[01:20:43] Speaker 41:
And there was no evidence that any of the hard drives had been tampered with, correct? Well, the products that Was there any evidence that the hard drives in any of those devices turned over on January 6th had been tampered with?
[01:20:57] Witness:
They don't have standard hard drives that a PC has. They have different hard drive types. They're soldered onto the motherboards of these devices.
[01:21:07] Speaker 41:
So there was no evidence that anything had been tampered with?
[01:21:10] Witness:
That's correct for these chips.
[01:21:12] Speaker 41:
And then you're aware of the fact that then on January 8th, strike that. Let me ask that again. Those devices that were turned over on January 6th were returned to Mr. Walsh on January 7th.
[01:21:27] Speaker 19:
Yes, that's correct.
[01:21:28] Speaker 41:
And then those same devices that were first turned over on January 6th were seized on January 8th or thereafter. On January 8th, yes. And additional devices were also seized on January 8th. Yes, they were. And one of those devices that was seized on January 8th was this gray MacBook, correct?
[01:21:48] Witness:
Yes, sir.
[01:21:49] Speaker 41:
The gray MacBook whose data appears in exhibit 79. Yes, sir. And there was no evidence after a forensic examination of all the devices now in the possession of the state police that none of the hard drives had been tampered with.
[01:22:08] Witness:
Like physical tamper with, sir? Like physically or like trying to take them apart?
[01:22:13] Speaker 41:
That's one question. We'll do it that way.
[01:22:16] Witness:
Physically? Other than the damage to the devices, no, there was no tampering like screws missing that I saw.
[01:22:23] Speaker 41:
And when you say the damage to devices, are you talking about the one iPad Mini that was cracked?
[01:22:28] Witness:
Yeah, well and the screen on the gray MacBook, the display itself was Not broken, but the LCD screen had like a flicker. It didn't work perfectly.
[01:22:41] Speaker 41:
And none of that affected the data within those devices?
[01:22:45] Witness:
No, that's correct.
[01:22:52] Speaker 41:
Yesterday you testified with regards to a search history search at page 888, record 3127.
[01:23:10] Witness:
I have 888, which one?
[01:23:13] Speaker 41:
Record 3127. Okay. That search occurred on January 3rd of 2023, correct?
[01:23:22] Witness:
That's at 7.30 PM.
[01:23:24] Speaker 41:
At 7.30, 38, correct? That's correct. And that search involved, can police get your search history without your computer, correct? That's correct. And once again, without repeating the same question, all those computers and iPhones and iPads were turned over on various dates, January 6th and January 8th and thereafter. That's correct. And you're unaware that any other computer or any other iPad or any other cell phone had been destroyed or otherwise disposed of. Just one cell phone. Okay. And the search history on all of these devices that were turned over, it was all intact, wasn't it?
[01:24:13] Witness:
Yes, the devices that were either turned over or seized during the warrant were.
[01:24:16] Speaker 41:
And in your forensic analysis of all these devices, you did not see any evidence that anyone tried to remove, delete, or otherwise change the search history contained on these devices?
[01:24:30] Speaker 19:
That's correct.
[01:24:33] Speaker 41:
Yesterday you testified to cell phone history search, and that's at page 904, record 3184. Yep, I have it. And you're aware of the fact that Mr. Walsh was interviewed beginning on January 4th, correct?
[01:24:59] Witness:
I don't remember the exact days. I got involved in the case on the 6th, but I know he was spoken with prior to that.
[01:25:06] Speaker 41:
That query, that search query that we just talked about, page 904, record 3184, that was conducted on January 4th at 8.55 a.m., correct?
[01:25:17] Speaker 19:
That's correct.
[01:25:18] Speaker 41:
But as you sit here today, you're not sure when Mr. Walsh was first interviewed by the law enforcement at his home?
[01:25:29] Speaker 19:
That's correct.
[01:25:32] Speaker 41:
Are you aware of the fact that he was not just interviewed once on January 4th, but twice? Are you aware of that? Were you ever, I guess your answer is no. That's correct, I don't know. Are you aware of any dates that Mr. Walsh was in fact questioned or interviewed by the police at his home prior to his arrest?
[01:25:52] Witness:
I just know it was prior to the six.
[01:26:01] Speaker 41:
In any event, in all of the devices that you did, in fact, forensically exam, you saw no evidence that any user tried to destroy any cell phone history as it applied to the cell phones, correct? To Mr. Walsh's? Yes.
[01:26:16] Witness:
That's correct.
[01:26:20] Speaker 41:
Now my understanding from your testimony yesterday is that you did not specifically conduct a full examination of any of the iPhones that were seized. That's correct. That would be Trooper Connor Keefe. That's correct. A user that uses these devices can delete information, can't they? To a point. But the fact of the matter is that those forensic tools that you use, Celebrite, Magnet Gray Axiom, when you run the data that you extract from a device, that software can detect where a delusion is.
[01:27:09] Witness:
As I said, to a point.
[01:27:13] Speaker 41:
It's fair to say that in your examination of the MacBook, device three, And in all of those records in exhibit 79, there's no indication that any data had been deleted.
[01:27:29] Witness:
I didn't see anything glaring.
[01:27:33] Speaker 41:
Yesterday, you talked about the Chase account login data, and specifically, the Chase login data that occurred on December 27th of 2022. Do you recall that? Vaguely. I refer you to page 259, record 951. Thank you.
[01:27:53] Witness:
What was the page again, 259 you said? 259. Thank you.
[01:28:10] Speaker 17:
All right, I have it.
[01:28:16] Speaker 41:
And you would agree with me that That particular activity, the chase login, that extended up to and including record 1026, found at page 279. Yep, I have it. And it's fair to say that you do not know what was reviewed during that chase login.
[01:28:46] Witness:
No, I do. I can see right here. So it goes, each URL, if you go into it, shows dashboard overview accounts. There's another one shows dashboard authorization when he signed out. Do you know the details of what he viewed? What was actually in his account? No. I just know that the headers for the Chase accounts that he was at.
[01:29:11] Speaker 41:
So you don't know if the user was looking at balances, deposits, anything like that. You just know that he logged in to the Chase account.
[01:29:25] Witness:
Yes, whatever covers under the account overview or his login information, that's all I can tell.
[01:29:30] Speaker 41:
I don't know if he made transactions or... And you do not know if there are multiple accounts associated with that Chase login? That's correct. I'm going to refer you to page 906, record 3195. Are you there yet?
[01:30:01] Witness:
No, you got me going from one end to the other.
[01:30:02] Defense:
3195. 3195.
[01:30:10] Speaker 41:
OK. Okay, have it. That's another chase login, isn't it?
[01:30:21] Speaker 19:
That's correct.
[01:30:23] Speaker 41:
Occurred at 3 58 26 p.m. on January 7th, correct?
[01:30:28] Speaker 17:
Yes, sir.
[01:30:30] Speaker 41:
And now I'm going to refer you to record number 3292 on page 930. That's another Chase login, isn't it?
[01:30:50] Witness:
He's already logged in from earlier, so it's the same login.
[01:30:59] Speaker 41:
It's not the same login that's referenced at page 9063195, is it? Because that login occurred on January 7th, correct?
[01:31:10] Witness:
Well, if you go back through... Oh, I see the date change. Yep. It goes all of, all the preceding ones are also chase from the seventh and then the eighth.
[01:31:22] Speaker 41:
So the reference specific to page 930, record 3292, that's a chase login that occurred the next day on January 8th, correct?
[01:31:34] Witness:
Yes, that's true.
[01:31:35] Speaker 41:
And that's at 3.02 a.m., correct?
[01:31:38] Witness:
Yes, it is.
[01:31:39] Speaker 41:
So what you saw in this MacBook data was multiple logins on the Chase account, correct? Yes. And they spanned many days during this period that you examined it, 12-25-2022, up to and including January 8th of 2023, correct? Yes. So there were many chase logins apart and aside from the chase login that you testified to on direct examination yesterday that occurred on December 27th of 2022, correct?
[01:32:14] Witness:
Yes.
[01:32:16] Speaker 41:
You'd also note, and I'll focus your attention on page 948 at record 3362. That involves a login to a Fidelity account, doesn't it? Yes, it does. And that login occurred at 70421.
[01:32:37] Speaker 17:
Yes.
[01:32:40] Speaker 41:
So there are multiple logins involving financial institutions within that MacBook data that is contained in Exhibit 79, correct? Yes. As you sit here today, you cannot tell this jury how many times there was a Chase login on this MacBook between 12-25-2022 and January 8th of 2023.
[01:33:10] Witness:
Unless I see the last visited count or I go through and hand count them, then no.
[01:33:17] Speaker 41:
And the same question, you can't tell us how many times the Fidelity account was logged into between December 25th, 2022 and January 8th of 2023. That's correct. And of course, you didn't examine any data on the MacBook prior to December 25th, 2022. So you have no idea how many times Mr. Walsh or anyone else logged into the Chase account prior to December 25th of 2022.
[01:33:50] Speaker 17:
Yes.
[01:33:54] Speaker 41:
I want to focus your attention to page 279 through 280 and record 1029 that is referenced on 279. Do you have that in front of you? That was a Google search that occurred at 9-37-07, correct?
[01:34:30] Witness:
I work at 10-29? Yes.
[01:34:34] Speaker 41:
And that occurred once again on 12-27, this 12-27 date that we keep hearing about, correct?
[01:34:40] Witness:
Yes.
[01:34:45] Speaker 41:
That search and those results had to do with Porsches, didn't it? Yes. Had to do with Someone searching for Porsche cars, correct?
[01:35:01] Witness:
Yeah, it says 911 Porsche 2009 for sale.
[01:35:05] Speaker 41:
And one of those searches involved a Porsche for sale in Cohasset, didn't it?
[01:35:11] Witness:
I don't know. I can look.
[01:35:24] Speaker 17:
That's a yes. Carbures, yes.
[01:35:31] Speaker 41:
Okay. That search that I just asked you about, that occurred on 12-27, that search happened right after those chase searches that occurred on 12-27, didn't it?
[01:35:49] Witness:
Yes.
[01:35:54] Speaker 41:
And that Porsche search at 279, 280, and other searches thereafter, they occurred right after those searches that you referenced yesterday to the jury about divorce, correct?
[01:36:12] Witness:
I believe so.
[01:36:15] Speaker 41:
I'm going to focus your attention now to page two. I'm sorry.
[01:36:18] Witness:
They did. They did. I just went back. I'm sorry.
[01:36:22] Speaker 41:
I'm going to focus you now to page 234, record 863. That is a search that occurred on 12-27, once again, and it occurred around 8-23-13, correct? I have 8-23-08, but yep. I'm going to ask you to go forward to record 870 and ask you to look at those records that run from 863 to 870. They all involve searching for a diamond ring, don't they? Yes. And one of the specific queries is a four carat diamond, correct? Yes. And there's a specific reference in the search at page 236, record 870, that it references bluenile.com diamonds, correct? That's correct. These searches that you just testified to regarding searching for diamonds, they occurred just before the searches that you told us about regarding the divorces yesterday, correct? Yes. Talking about those divorce searches now, the divorce searches that occurred on 12-27, they start actually with a search at page 240, record 8-8-7. And the search involves Katie Holmes' divorce. Yes. Katie Holmes is an actress. Do you know? Yes. And so that is the first search that appears on 1227 that includes the term divorce, correct?
[01:38:38] Witness:
Let's see. I believe so.
[01:38:44] Speaker 41:
And then there's the searches that we talked about. You talked about yesterday on direct. And it's fair to say, isn't it, that those searches regarding divorce you testified to ran from page 241, record 891, to page 258, record 948.
[01:39:10] Witness:
Is that the question? Did I?
[01:39:20] Speaker 41:
Yes.
[01:39:21] Witness:
Yes.
[01:39:22] Speaker 41:
And you characterized them yesterday when asked by the Commonwealth, How do you characterize the nature of those searches? All showing divorce advice. Your words, correct?
[01:39:34] Witness:
Not gonna lie, I forget what I said, but I believe so.
[01:39:41] Speaker 41:
Okay. So it's fair to say that if they ran from 833 to 854, that'd be a total of 21 minutes, correct?
[01:39:59] Speaker 17:
Yes.
[01:40:03] Speaker 41:
That's 21 minutes of looking at divorce, as you characterized it, divorce advice, in over 15 days of data that you extracted from the MacBook, correct?
[01:40:16] Speaker 17:
Yes.
[01:40:19] Speaker 41:
And these divorce searches, once again, they occurred after the diamond searches, right after them, didn't they? Yes. And they occurred before the Porsche searches, didn't they? Yes. And these searches occurred before the Chase searches that you testified to?
[01:40:38] Witness:
Yes.
[01:40:39] Speaker 41:
So on 1227, that extracted data from the map shows it all right around the same time there was a Chase log in, correct?
[01:40:50] Witness:
Yes.
[01:40:52] Speaker 41:
Looks like someone was shopping for a diamond ring or a diamond, correct?
[01:40:55] Witness:
I don't know if they were shopping for it, but they were looking at it.
[01:40:58] Speaker 41:
And somebody was looking at portions for sale, correct?
[01:41:01] Witness:
That's correct.
[01:41:13] Speaker 41:
And there was no divorce-related searches that occurred in the data you looked at.
[01:41:21] Speaker 40:
from 1225 up to and including up to the 1227 divorce.
[01:41:29] Witness:
Not that I saw.
[01:41:48] Speaker 41:
It's fair to characterize these searches that You testified to yesterday that they began at 4.52, and sometimes the searches only seem to last no more than a minute or two.
[01:42:04] Witness:
I can't speak to the time frame for all of them because I don't have them all memorized, but I know some were short, some were not.
[01:42:11] Speaker 41:
But in fact, if someone reviewed exhibit 79 carefully and looked at the data, the data would reveal within how long and how short some of these searches went from one search query to the next, correct? Yes, that's true. And it would also show that during these searches that were being conducted that at times the software, the browser would then redirect and send the user to someplace else and then a new search would be conducted, correct?
[01:42:46] Witness:
Again, I don't remember being all that many, but yes, that could happen.
[01:42:51] Speaker 41:
And there are searches that include searches of what detergent to use to clean up, correct?
[01:43:07] Witness:
Clean up what?
[01:43:09] Speaker 41:
Clean up a wood floor. You recall that. If you don't, that's fine.
[01:43:14] Witness:
I remember having something else in that search string, but I don't remember just how to clean wood floors.
[01:43:20] Speaker 41:
OK. Do you remember, as you sit here today, anything about searches for concrete floors?
[01:43:25] Witness:
Yes.
[01:43:25] Speaker 41:
OK. All of these searches, they go on not just for one day. These searches go on for at least three days, don't they?
[01:43:38] Witness:
I believe they go from the first to the fourth.
[01:43:40] Speaker 41:
OK. On January 3rd, there are searches about how to deal with smells and odors from a decomposing body, isn't there?
[01:43:58] Speaker 17:
Yes.
[01:44:01] Speaker 41:
And those searches about how to deal with an odor, they don't even begin until January 3rd, do they? If you know, if you don't, that's fine.
[01:44:11] Witness:
I thought on the first there was one how long it takes for a body to start smelling.
[01:44:16] Speaker 41:
But not how to clean it up.
[01:44:19] Witness:
That's correct.
[01:44:20] Speaker 41:
And not how to mask the smell or anything of the sort.
[01:44:25] Witness:
Now, there is January 1st, 458. How long does a body stop smelling?
[01:44:32] Speaker 41:
But not how to mask it, correct?
[01:44:34] Witness:
That's correct.
[01:44:35] Speaker 41:
And not how to clean it up.
[01:44:37] Witness:
I'm not seeing that. You're not seeing it? I'm not seeing it. I'm just seeing the beginning ones that I've already talked about.
[01:45:10] Defense:
That's all I have. Thank you. Redirect.
[01:45:15] Speaker 22:
Very, very briefly.
[01:45:16] Speaker 25:
79.
[01:45:31] Commonwealth:
We could just put up exhibit 79, page 593, just to clear up one thing. Record 2171. If you could just read that title, please, Trooper.
[01:45:57] Witness:
It says, your spouse is missing and you want a divorce slash hello divorce.
[01:46:01] Commonwealth:
And what is the date and time for that?
[01:46:04] Witness:
January 1st, 2023, 1030, 49 a.m.
[01:46:07] Commonwealth:
So that is after 1227 of 22, is that right?
[01:46:13] Witness:
Yes.
[01:46:14] Commonwealth:
Thank you. And Trooper, you talked about on cross-examination, you were asked about devices that you received on January 6th of 2023 by Mr. Walsh. Did you receive the MacBook?
[01:46:43] Witness:
No, I did not.
[01:46:46] Commonwealth:
What did you receive?
[01:46:48] Witness:
The iPhone 13 mini and two iPads, iPad 6 and iPad 6 mini.
[01:46:54] Commonwealth:
And did those have hard drives like a laptop?
[01:46:59] Witness:
No. They have memory chips similar to the MacBooks, but not like a PC hard drive.
[01:47:07] Commonwealth:
And did you find at the search warrant a PC or a laptop with a traditional hard drive? No. And did you search the house for a traditional laptop or a PC?
[01:47:23] Witness:
Yes, I did.
[01:47:26] Commonwealth:
One moment.
[01:47:34] Defense:
Any recross? No. The witness may step down.
[01:47:40] Witness:
Thank you, Your Honor.
[01:47:52] Defense:
May call its next witness.
[01:47:54] Commonwealth:
Thank you, Your Honor. I call William Foley.
[01:48:19] Speaker 31:
Just remain standing please, the clerk.
[01:48:36] Commonwealth:
Thank you.
[01:48:37] Defense:
May proceed.
[01:48:38] Commonwealth:
Thank you, Your Honor. Good morning, sir. Good morning. Could you state your name and spell your last name for the record?
[01:48:44] Speaker 34:
Yes, my name is William Foley. F-O-L-E-Y. And where do you work, sir? I work for U.S. Customs and Border Protection. What does the U.S. Customs and Border Protection do? The U.S. Customs and Border Protection inspects arriving merchandise, cargo, and travelers traveling into and out of the United States.
[01:49:04] Commonwealth:
And how long have you been with U.S. Customs and Border Protection?
[01:49:08] Speaker 34:
with U.S. Customs and Border Protection for 13 years.
[01:49:11] Commonwealth:
And what are your responsibilities there?
[01:49:13] Speaker 34:
My responsibilities are mainly to inspect documents of individuals that are traveling into and out of the United States.
[01:49:21] Commonwealth:
Are you familiar as a result with a system known as TEX, T-E-C-S?
[01:49:27] Speaker 34:
Yes. Can you tell us what that is? Sure, so TEX is a law enforcement tool that basically stores arriving and departing records for individuals that are traveling into and out of the United States. And who has access to it? U.S. Customs and Border Protection.
[01:49:47] Commonwealth:
And how are entries in techs generated?
[01:49:52] Speaker 34:
They're mainly imported by the airlines when passengers travel internationally on aircraft.
[01:50:00] Commonwealth:
Now, are you familiar with another system called APIS?
[01:50:06] Speaker 34:
Yes.
[01:50:06] Commonwealth:
Can you tell us what that is?
[01:50:08] Speaker 34:
Yes, so APIS stands for Advanced Passenger Information System. It's a system used by the airlines to transmit travel data of passengers traveling into and out of the United States.
[01:50:21] Commonwealth:
And what interaction does that have with TEX?
[01:50:24] Speaker 34:
Once a record is inputted into APIS, it's transmitted to TEX within 72 hours of a traveler's arrival or departure into the United States.
[01:50:36] Commonwealth:
And what would someone who's traveling in or out of the United States need to give in order to have their information go into APIS?
[01:50:44] Speaker 34:
A passport.
[01:50:46] Commonwealth:
Now, what happens if someone has dual citizenship and has two passports?
[01:50:58] Speaker 34:
So the airlines scan whichever passport or record whatever passport is provided to them by the traveler.
[01:51:06] Commonwealth:
And if someone has dual citizenship, would it record still that they're coming or leaving the country?
[01:51:14] Speaker 34:
I'm sorry, can you repeat?
[01:51:15] Commonwealth:
So if someone has dual citizenship and they use another country's passport, does it still get recorded into APIS?
[01:51:20] Speaker 34:
Yes.
[01:51:21] Commonwealth:
Okay. Now, sir, you've earlier provided some documentation from text that's been stipulated to as Exhibit 82. Your Honor, with the court's permission, the Commonwealth would seek to publish Exhibit 82.
[01:51:37] Defense:
And the description of Exhibit 82 is what?
[01:51:40] Commonwealth:
A two-page text document having the name Anna Walsh.
[01:51:47] Defense:
It is from one of these two systems?
[01:51:50] Commonwealth:
It is from the TECS system by U.S. Customs and Border Protection.
[01:51:55] Defense:
All right. The two pages of TECS documents are now admitted into evidence as Exhibit 82.
[01:52:03] Commonwealth:
Thank you, Your Honor.
[01:52:06] Defense:
Yes.
[01:52:16] Commonwealth:
We're literally on the same page. So, Mr. Foley, can you see the screen, sir? Yes, sir. Okay. Now, I'd like you to walk us through this document. The date at the top left-hand corner in time, what is that, sir? July 8th, 2025. And underneath that encounter date start and encounter end date, what are those two dates representing?
[01:52:48] Speaker 34:
Those dates are the travel records from January 1st, 2022 and ending on July 7th, 2025 pertaining to Anna Walsh. And what is the date of birth? Date of birth is April 12th, 1983.
[01:53:05] Commonwealth:
And scrolling down, sir, there is two lines of entry with Anna Walsh's name. Can you walk us through what those two lines represent?
[01:53:16] Speaker 34:
Sure, so the bottom line shows that Anna Walsh departed the United States on November 23rd, 2022 and returned to the United States on December 7th, 2022.
[01:53:31] Commonwealth:
So on that bottom line, after November 23rd, 2022, there is a UA under carrier code. What's that mean, sir? That stands for United Airlines. And what does the O in the next column mean, sir?
[01:53:45] Speaker 34:
That stands for outbound.
[01:53:47] Commonwealth:
And now, sir, it says onboard. What is the significance of that?
[01:53:52] Speaker 34:
That shows that the airline confirmed that she was onboard the aircraft.
[01:53:58] Commonwealth:
Now, on the top row of data right above that, what does LH mean under carrier code?
[01:54:05] Speaker 34:
That stands for Lufthansa Airlines.
[01:54:07] Commonwealth:
And what does the I mean, sir? Inbound. Now, underneath that, there is a legend, and can you just run through the legend for us as far as what the codes and values are next to them?
[01:54:22] Speaker 34:
Sure, so DUB is Dublin, Ireland, FRA, Frankfurt International Airport in Frankfurt, Germany, BOS is Boston Logan International Airport, and IAD is Dulles International Airport in Washington, D.C.
[01:54:37] Commonwealth:
And, sir, other than those two entries, were there any other records of Anna Walls traveling outside the country from January 1st, 2022 to your July date in 2025? No, sir. Nothing further with Mr. Foley, Your Honor.
[01:54:58] Defense:
Any cross?
[01:55:07] Commonwealth:
No, sir.
[01:55:10] Defense:
Any redirect?
[01:55:11] Commonwealth:
No, Your Honor.
[01:55:12] Defense:
Witness may step down.
[01:55:13] Commonwealth:
Thank you.
[01:55:34] Defense:
Commonwealth may call its next witness.
[01:55:36] Commonwealth:
Thank you, Your Honor. The Commonwealth would call Patrick Riddon.
[01:56:03] Commonwealth:
Right this way, sir.
[01:56:16] Commonwealth:
Good morning, sir. Morning.
[01:56:18] Speaker 11:
Sir, could you state your name and spell your last name for the record? Patrick Riordan. R-E-A-R-D-O-N. Where do you work, sir? Cohasset. And what do you do in Cohasset? I am a sergeant and a canine handler.
[01:56:30] Commonwealth:
How long have you been—you say sergeant, so I'm assuming Cohasset Police Department. Yes. How long have you been with the Cohasset Police Department? About 18 years. And how long have you been a sergeant? About three years. And how long have you been a canine handler? About 15 years. And in January of 2023, what was your canine's name? Einstein. Now, what type of dog is Einstein? He's a Belgian Malinois. And what type of police dog is Einstein?
[01:56:59] Speaker 11:
He's certified as a patrol dog. He tracks, does area searches, building searches.
[01:57:06] Commonwealth:
What type of training did he go into to be able to track?
[01:57:10] Speaker 11:
So initially it takes myself and him go through a 16 week training with the local sheriff's office and from there we do a twice a month training.
[01:57:25] Commonwealth:
And now, sir, I'd like to ask you some questions about January 5th of 2023. Did you have the opportunity to do a track or an area search with Einstein that day? I did. Approximately what time? About 10, 20 in the morning. And what was the weather like?
[01:57:44] Speaker 11:
It was cool, cloudy. And where did you conduct this search? I conducted the search in the front left side in the rear of the property.
[01:57:55] Commonwealth:
And when you say the property, is that 516 Chief Justice Cushing Highway? Yes.
[01:58:03] Speaker 11:
Sir, what type of search was this? This was considered an area search.
[01:58:07] Commonwealth:
And what would you call it? Can you tell us what an area search means?
[01:58:10] Speaker 11:
An area search basically means it's not a track, so we don't have a definitive area of where the person would have started. So an area search would just be using the dog to try and pick up a scent of human odor in the area.
[01:58:26] Commonwealth:
Now, Your Honor, if I may, we've stipulated to a series of photographs from exhibits 83 to 89. And if I could publish the first of those, exhibit 83. You may. Thank you. Ms. Gilman? Sergeant, can you see the image on the screen?
[01:58:49] Speaker 11:
I can.
[01:58:50] Commonwealth:
Is that the general area of the home that you had the opportunity to do your area search of? It is. And if we may have exhibit 84. Now, Sergeant, do you see this image in Exhibit 84? Yes. Is the home in Exhibit 84? Yes. Now, sir, can you just tell us generally how far the home is set back from Route 3A? It's about 100 yards. And just generally looking at Exhibit 84, can you tell us again where you did your search?
[01:59:29] Speaker 11:
So as you look at the home, I started the area search in the front left between the home and 3A on the left-hand side and worked my way back through the area where you can see Peppermint Brook.
[01:59:46] Commonwealth:
Now, if we may have exhibit 85. Sir, what part of the home is this? That's the front. And did you have the opportunity to walk this area with Einstein? To the left of the driveway, yes. And if we could have exhibit 86. Do you recognize this area, sir?
[02:00:05] Speaker 11:
Yes.
[02:00:05] Commonwealth:
And that was also an area you got to walk with Einstein? Yes. And Ms. Gilman, could we have, just a little bit out of order, exhibit 39 from the other day? Do you recognize this area, sir?
[02:00:19] Speaker 11:
Yes. What is this of the house? This is the backyard of the home. What animals were in the backyard of the home when you were doing your search with Einstein? There was a large German shepherd in the fenced-in area. And how was it behaving? It was barking consistently at us. And what was Einstein doing during this? He was fine. He's not dog aggressive, so he continued to work.
[02:00:42] Commonwealth:
And so is that what that other dog would be considered dog aggressive?
[02:00:45] Speaker 11:
Yes.
[02:00:46] Commonwealth:
And could we have exhibit 87? Do you recognize this area, sir? Yes. Where is this in relation to the home? It's to the left of the home. And did you get to walk this with Einstein? I did. And then if we could have exhibit 88. Do you recognize this area, sir?
[02:01:10] Speaker 11:
Yes. And where was this? Similar area to the left of the home towards the back.
[02:01:15] Commonwealth:
And then the final image I want to show you is exhibit 89. And where is this in relation to the home?
[02:01:22] Speaker 11:
That's in the backyard as well. the gravel path that leads up to the back.
[02:01:27] Commonwealth:
And now, sir, what if anything did you find? We didn't find anything. And how long did you do that area search with Einstein? It was approximately 25, 30 minutes.
[02:01:46] Speaker 11:
And did you go inside the fence where the dog was? No, I did not. Why not? Because the dog was there and it wouldn't have worked out. All right. Nothing further, Your Honor.
[02:02:01] UNKNOWN:
Ross?
[02:02:01] Defense:
No questions. The witness may step down. Thank you.
[02:02:03] Speaker 11:
Thank you.
[02:02:11] Defense:
Commonwealth may call its next witness.
[02:02:13] Commonwealth:
Commonwealth calls Tom Menino. Good morning. You may proceed. Thank you, Your Honor. Good morning.
[02:02:53] Speaker 16:
Good morning.
[02:02:54] Commonwealth:
Could you please state your name and spell your last name for the record?
[02:02:58] Speaker 16:
Thomas Menino, M-E-N-I-N-O. And how are you employed, sir? I'm currently employed with JetBlue. In what capacity? Corporate security manager out of Boston Logan Airport.
[02:03:11] Commonwealth:
Thank you. And how long have you been employed by JetBlue as corporate security?
[02:03:16] Speaker 16:
Just under two years.
[02:03:18] Commonwealth:
And what are your responsibilities there?
[02:03:21] Speaker 16:
Security issues at the airport, keeper of the records.
[02:03:25] Commonwealth:
And so as part of your job, you said you are keeper of the records, custodian of the records? Correct. Thank you. And does JetBlue Airlines keep records of customers flying on its planes in the normal course of business?
[02:03:39] Speaker 16:
Yes, we do.
[02:03:41] Commonwealth:
And how are your company's records kept?
[02:03:44] Speaker 16:
Electronically.
[02:03:45] Commonwealth:
When are entries made of those records?
[02:03:49] Speaker 16:
As soon as someone purchases a reservation for an airline ticket, that's when we get the record.
[02:03:55] Commonwealth:
Thank you. So as close to a transaction being made as possible?
[02:03:59] Speaker 16:
Correct.
[02:04:01] Commonwealth:
And why are records kept?
[02:04:03] Speaker 16:
Just because we want to know who's flying on us and if there's any issues.
[02:04:09] Speaker 41:
I apologize Judge, I just can't hear the witness.
[02:04:11] Defense:
Okay. I'm just going to ask the witness. This is a really large courtroom. Lean right into that microphone and a big bowl of voice.
[02:04:17] Commonwealth:
Sorry. Thank you so much. If you could just repeat that answer.
[02:04:21] Speaker 16:
So just so we know who's flying on our airline and that we, you know, just have a record for them.
[02:04:28] Commonwealth:
Thank you. So are your records kept in good faith?
[02:04:31] Speaker 16:
Yes, they are.
[02:04:33] Commonwealth:
And do you have JetBlue records concerning reservations for December 25th of 2022 through January 30th of 2023 for passenger Anna Walsh with the date of birth of April 12th, 1983 that you have provided to the Commonwealth?
[02:04:51] Speaker 16:
Yes, we did.
[02:04:55] Commonwealth:
Your Honor, I'd ask now that we enter in, which has already been previously marked as Exhibit 92.
[02:05:03] Defense:
9-2.
[02:05:03] Commonwealth:
9-2.
[02:05:06] Defense:
Presumably, we're going to hear about what 90 and 91 are later. Yes, we will, Your Honor. All right. So 92 are the records from JetBlue. They're marked and admitted into evidence. Thank you very much.
[02:05:20] Commonwealth:
I'd also ask that they be published for the jury at this time electronically. You may. Do you have a copy of those, sir? I don't have them with me. I will bring them right up to you. Thank you. May I approach, Your Honor? Yes, you may. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Menendez, are you familiar with those records?
[02:05:57] Speaker 21:
I am.
[02:05:58] Commonwealth:
Thank you very much. Looking at the reservation on 12-25-22, could you go to that page, Ms. Gilman? Thank you. Okay. Where was there a reservation from?
[02:06:16] Speaker 16:
This reservation was from DCA, which is Reagan National Airport, to Boston.
[02:06:24] Commonwealth:
So, and the code for Boston?
[02:06:28] Speaker 16:
BOS.
[02:06:29] Commonwealth:
Thank you. And what time was that reservation for? It was for 6.30 p.m. And can you tell if Ms. Walsh took that flight?
[02:06:40] Speaker 16:
No, that flight was refunded.
[02:06:43] Commonwealth:
Okay, so you can tell that she did not take that flight, is that correct? Correct. And where do you see that that flight was refunded?
[02:06:50] Speaker 16:
where it says STAT, S-T-A-T, it says R-F-N-D. And what happened to that flight?
[02:07:03] Commonwealth:
Do you know, did that flight go that day?
[02:07:05] Speaker 16:
That flight went, but that was refunded ticket.
[02:07:08] Commonwealth:
Okay. And when was that flight purchased?
[02:07:12] Speaker 16:
Looks like it was issued on December 20th of 2022.
[02:07:19] Commonwealth:
Going to the next record on 12-27. Did Ms. Walsh have a flight on 12-27-22? Yes. And where was, from where?
[02:07:39] Speaker 16:
This flight was from Boston to Reagan, National Airport.
[02:07:44] Commonwealth:
And what time?
[02:07:44] Speaker 16:
7.30 a.m.
[02:07:47] Commonwealth:
And did she take that flight?
[02:07:50] Speaker 16:
This flight here was booked through JetBlue when it was with the Northeast Alliance that meant we were dealing with American Airlines. And so this was purchased for an American Airlines ticket. So we don't have record of if she took that flight or not.
[02:08:06] Commonwealth:
And when was that flight purchased?
[02:08:10] Speaker 16:
It was December 20th of 2022.
[02:08:14] Commonwealth:
And where can you see that?
[02:08:16] Speaker 16:
and where it says issued.
[02:08:22] Commonwealth:
And looking at the next page, please. Did Ms. Walsh have a flight on 12-30-22?
[02:08:37] Speaker 16:
Yes, she did.
[02:08:40] Commonwealth:
And from where to where?
[02:08:42] Speaker 16:
That flight was from Reagan International Airport to Boston.
[02:08:47] Commonwealth:
And what time?
[02:08:48] Speaker 16:
That was at 6.30 AM.
[02:08:52] Commonwealth:
And did she take that flight on December 30th of 2022?
[02:08:57] Speaker 16:
That flight was, that ticket was used.
[02:09:01] Commonwealth:
And when was that flight purchased?
[02:09:05] Speaker 16:
December 20th of 2022.
[02:09:12] Commonwealth:
And what's the difference, if you know, between created and issued?
[02:09:17] Speaker 16:
Oh, yeah, so it's created. That's when the ticket was created, was that date, and it was issued, the ticket was issued on the second date. So yeah, it was, sorry, that was created on November 5th of 2022.
[02:09:35] Commonwealth:
and then it was issued?
[02:09:37] Speaker 16:
Yes.
[02:09:37] Commonwealth:
Okay. So created is the day it was purchased?
[02:09:40] Speaker 16:
Correct.
[02:09:41] Commonwealth:
Thank you. Ms. Gillman, if you could just go back to that. Thank you. So created is the day it was purchased? Correct. Thank you. And was there a flight on January 3rd of 2023? That's correct. And from where to where?
[02:09:59] Speaker 16:
From Boston to Reagan.
[02:10:02] Commonwealth:
And what time?
[02:10:02] Speaker 16:
That would be at 6 a.m.
[02:10:06] Commonwealth:
And was that flight used? And Ms. Gilman, if you could go down now.
[02:10:14] Speaker 16:
No, that says it was no show. So that meant that the person did not show up for the flight.
[02:10:21] Commonwealth:
What's the difference between refund and no show?
[02:10:25] Speaker 16:
So refund is you can You can cancel your ticket prior to your flight and get your money back. No show means you just don't show up for the flight.
[02:10:41] Commonwealth:
And looking at the next document, please. Was there a flight reservation for January 13th of 2023? Yes. And where was that flight scheduled from?
[02:11:00] Speaker 16:
Reagan International Airport to Boston.
[02:11:04] Commonwealth:
And what time? 6.30 p.m. And did Ms. Walsh take that flight?
[02:11:10] Speaker 16:
That was a no-show on that flight as well.
[02:11:13] Commonwealth:
And if you could go down, please. And where do you see that?
[02:11:18] Speaker 16:
Right there, it says CMP2. Hold on, just make sure I got the right one. The third, sorry, it's CMP1, it's the lower one.
[02:11:29] Commonwealth:
Thank you. And going back up, when was that?
[02:11:37] Speaker 16:
That was created on November 5th of 2022. Okay.
[02:11:40] Commonwealth:
And looking at 116, Did Miss Walsh have a flight reservation for 1-16 of 2023? Yes, she did. And where was that flight scheduled from?
[02:11:57] Speaker 16:
That was from Boston to Reagan.
[02:12:00] Commonwealth:
And what time was that flight for? 6 a.m. And did she take that flight?
[02:12:05] Speaker 16:
That was a no-show on that flight.
[02:12:08] Commonwealth:
And when was that flight purchased? Going up, please.
[02:12:12] Speaker 16:
November 5th, 2022.
[02:12:16] Commonwealth:
And Ms. Gilman, could you go up in the record so we could see that, please? Go up, please. Thank you. And going to the next document, please. And looking at this document, did Miss Walsh have a flight reservation for January 27th of 2023?
[02:12:46] Speaker 16:
Yes, she did.
[02:12:48] Commonwealth:
And where was this reservation from?
[02:12:50] Speaker 16:
Reagan International Airport to Boston.
[02:12:53] Commonwealth:
And what time? 6.30 p.m. And did Miss Walsh take that flight?
[02:12:58] Speaker 16:
That was a no-show for that flight.
[02:13:01] Commonwealth:
And when was that flight purchased?
[02:13:03] Speaker 16:
That flight was purchased on November 5th, 2022.
[02:13:08] Commonwealth:
And looking at the January 30th, 2022, did she have a flight reservation for that date?
[02:13:15] Speaker 16:
She did.
[02:13:16] Commonwealth:
And where was the reservation from?
[02:13:18] Speaker 16:
Boston to Reagan International Airport.
[02:13:21] Commonwealth:
And what time? 6 a.m. And did she take that flight?
[02:13:25] Speaker 16:
She did not. No show.
[02:13:28] Commonwealth:
And when was that flight purchased?
[02:13:31] Speaker 16:
On November 5th, 2022.
[02:13:35] Commonwealth:
And the final page, please. And what is this document showing Mr. Menino?
[02:13:43] Speaker 16:
These are just flights that we had scheduled for January, sorry, December 23rd, 2022, December 24th, 2022, December 25th, December 30th, 2022, and January 1st, 2023.
[02:14:06] Commonwealth:
And so that shows whether or not the flight went or was canceled.
[02:14:10] Speaker 16:
Correct.
[02:14:11] Commonwealth:
And those are only the jet blue flights, correct?
[02:14:13] Speaker 16:
That's correct.
[02:14:14] Commonwealth:
Okay. So this would show the January, I'm sorry, the December 25th of 22 flights, whether they flew or were canceled. That's correct. Thank you very much.
[02:14:35] Defense:
Any cross exam?
[02:14:37] Speaker 41:
No questions, Judge.
[02:14:38] Defense:
Witness may step down. Thank you.
[02:14:40] Speaker 41:
Thank you.
[02:14:56] Defense:
Commonwealth may call its next witness.
[02:14:57] Commonwealth:
The Commonwealth would call Greg Lawrence.
[02:15:20] Defense:
And you may proceed.
[02:15:40] Commonwealth:
Thank you, Your Honor. Good morning. I'm a police officer. Could you please state your name for the record and spell your last name?
[02:15:52] Speaker 04:
Gregory Lowrance, last name spelled L-O-W-R-A-N-C-E. And where do you work, sir? The Cohazard Police Department.
[02:16:01] Commonwealth:
And how long have you worked there?
[02:16:03] Speaker 04:
Since 2018.
[02:16:04] Commonwealth:
And what are your rank and responsibilities?
[02:16:08] Speaker 04:
Currently, I am a police officer, assigned as a school resource officer to the El Andre School in town.
[02:16:14] Commonwealth:
And what were your responsibilities in January of 2023?
[02:16:18] Speaker 04:
I was working as a patrol officer.
[02:16:21] Commonwealth:
In what shift were you working on January 4th of 2023?
[02:16:24] Speaker 04:
The 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. shift.
[02:16:29] Commonwealth:
And how were you dressed for that shift?
[02:16:31] Speaker 04:
Regular department uniform.
[02:16:33] Commonwealth:
And where were you dispatched at approximately 11 44 a.m. on January 4th of 2023?
[02:16:41] Speaker 04:
516 Chief Justice Cushing Highway and go ask it.
[02:16:44] Commonwealth:
Sir, can you keep your voice up, please?
[02:16:45] Speaker 04:
I'm sorry.
[02:16:46] Commonwealth:
Lean right into that microphone. You can also move that a little closer to you, the microphone, if you want. Now, what was the purpose, what was your purpose of going to 516 Chief Justice Cushing Highway?
[02:17:03] Speaker 04:
I believe it was for a well-being check.
[02:17:06] Commonwealth:
And what did you do upon arrival to that residence?
[02:17:10] Speaker 04:
I exited my cruiser and approached the side door of the residence.
[02:17:14] Commonwealth:
And then what happened?
[02:17:16] Speaker 04:
I was met by the resident of the house, Mr. Brian Walsh.
[02:17:21] Commonwealth:
And where did you meet him?
[02:17:24] Speaker 04:
It was on the door to the right of the main front door.
[02:17:27] Commonwealth:
Okay. And what did he say, if anything, when you arrived?
[02:17:33] Speaker 04:
He wanted to file a missing person report for his wife.
[02:17:37] Commonwealth:
What was his demeanor?
[02:17:39] Speaker 04:
He was calm, collected.
[02:17:42] Commonwealth:
And was this interaction that you had with him recorded?
[02:17:44] Speaker 04:
It was not.
[02:17:47] Commonwealth:
And did Cohasset Police Department have body-worn cameras at that time?
[02:17:52] Speaker 04:
We did not.
[02:17:53] Commonwealth:
Does Cohasset Police Department have body-worn cameras now?
[02:17:56] Speaker 04:
We did not.
[02:17:58] Commonwealth:
And did he say why he wanted to report his wife missing?
[02:18:03] Speaker 04:
He contacted her workplace and they had not heard from her and he had not heard from her in a few days.
[02:18:11] Commonwealth:
What did he tell you about the last time that he had seen her?
[02:18:18] Speaker 04:
It was on January 1st, 2023.
[02:18:22] Commonwealth:
What if anything else did he tell you?
[02:18:25] Speaker 04:
That it was the morning between 6 a.m. and 7 a.m. before she took a flight back to Washington, D.C. for work.
[02:18:33] Commonwealth:
And did he tell you where she was taking a flight from?
[02:18:38] Speaker 04:
Logan Airport.
[02:18:39] Commonwealth:
And did he tell you how she got to Logan Airport?
[02:18:43] Speaker 04:
She took an Uber from the residence.
[02:18:46] Commonwealth:
And did he say what he had done to contact her?
[02:18:50] Speaker 04:
He had tried to contact her and also was reaching out to friends and coworkers in the DC area.
[02:18:58] Commonwealth:
And did he say whether or not this was typical behavior?
[02:19:03] Speaker 04:
It was not.
[02:19:04] Commonwealth:
What did he say about their typical behavior?
[02:19:07] Speaker 04:
When she is away from the family for work, they usually face them frequently, so you can face them with their children.
[02:19:15] Commonwealth:
Officer Lawrence, what did you next do in regard to Mr. Walsh's missing person report?
[02:19:27] Speaker 04:
I return to my cruiser to go into my cruiser bag and take out a blank NCIC missing persons report form to fill out.
[02:19:37] Commonwealth:
And what is NCIC?
[02:19:40] Speaker 04:
It is the National Crime Information Center, a national database used for law enforcement to get information out to surrounding agencies.
[02:19:49] Commonwealth:
So what kind of information do you need for that?
[02:19:51] Speaker 04:
Basic biographical information, any personal appearance information, anything that will help locate a missing person.
[02:20:00] Commonwealth:
And were you able to compile information for that form?
[02:20:04] Speaker 04:
Yes.
[02:20:06] Commonwealth:
And at this point, Your Honor, I'd like to put into evidence what's been marked by agreement as Exhibit 93, the NCIC form.
[02:20:21] Defense:
Exhibit 93 is now in evidence to NCIC form. Thank you.
[02:20:28] Commonwealth:
And before I ask you a question about that, who gave you the information to fill out the form?
[02:20:34] Speaker 04:
Brian Walsh.
[02:20:35] Commonwealth:
Do you recognize Brian Walsh in the courtroom today?
[02:20:38] Speaker 04:
Yes.
[02:20:39] Commonwealth:
Can you please point him out for the record?
[02:20:41] Speaker 04:
He's right there in a black suit, red tie.
[02:20:44] Commonwealth:
Your Honor, might the record reflect that the witness has identified the defendant?
[02:20:48] Defense:
The record will so reflect.
[02:20:50] Commonwealth:
Thank you. Your Honor, I'd like to publish Exhibit 93, the NCIC form. You may. Thank you. What did the defendant tell you was the name of his wife?
[02:21:10] Speaker 04:
Anna Walsh.
[02:21:11] Commonwealth:
And what did he say was her date of birth?
[02:21:17] Speaker 04:
April 12, 1983.
[02:21:20] Commonwealth:
Where did he tell you she was born?
[02:21:21] Speaker 04:
Belgrade.
[02:21:23] Commonwealth:
What information did the defendant tell you about where Anna Walsh lives?
[02:21:30] Speaker 04:
They owned a townhouse in Washington D.C., which she stayed at when she was down there for work.
[02:21:35] Commonwealth:
Ms. Gilman, if you could go down. And what did he say was the address?
[02:21:38] Speaker 04:
5334 43rd Street, Northwest.
[02:21:43] Commonwealth:
And did he give you the Washington D.C. and the zip code?
[02:21:47] Speaker 04:
Yes, ma'am.
[02:21:48] Commonwealth:
And did he say what her car was?
[02:21:51] Speaker 04:
Yes.
[02:21:52] Commonwealth:
And what was that?
[02:21:53] Speaker 04:
A 2022 gray Volkswagen Taos.
[02:21:57] Commonwealth:
And did he give you a physical description of her?
[02:22:00] Speaker 04:
Yes ma'am, he did.
[02:22:01] Commonwealth:
And what was that physical description that he gave you?
[02:22:05] Speaker 04:
About 115 pounds in weight, five foot two height, brown hair, brown eyes.
[02:22:12] Commonwealth:
And did he provide you any information about her phone?
[02:22:16] Speaker 04:
Yes, he supplied me with her cell phone number.
[02:22:21] Commonwealth:
And why is the cell phone number important for you?
[02:22:28] Speaker 04:
Then we can conduct a ping of the cell phone to determine its last known location.
[02:22:34] Commonwealth:
And what number did the defendant give you for, did he also, besides her cell phone, did he also give you his cell phone number?
[02:22:44] Speaker 04:
Yes, he did.
[02:22:46] Commonwealth:
And what number did he give you?
[02:22:47] Speaker 04:
617-939-8646.
[02:22:54] Commonwealth:
And did the defendant tell you what airline Miss Walsh was going to fly?
[02:23:02] Speaker 04:
He said that she was flying JetBlue.
[02:23:04] Commonwealth:
And why is that information important?
[02:23:07] Speaker 04:
Then we can contact Logan Airport and determine if she boarded any flights for JetBlue that day.
[02:23:14] Commonwealth:
And after obtaining the information from the NCIC form, where did you then go?
[02:23:21] Speaker 04:
I then returned to the Colossal Police Department.
[02:23:24] Commonwealth:
And I should ask, did you go inside the house at that time?
[02:23:28] Speaker 04:
I did not.
[02:23:31] Commonwealth:
How long were you at the house?
[02:23:34] Speaker 04:
Probably around 20 minutes.
[02:23:39] Commonwealth:
And at some point, did you go back to the house that night?
[02:23:44] Speaker 04:
I did.
[02:23:45] Commonwealth:
And why did you go back to the house that night?
[02:23:49] Speaker 04:
I returned to the residence around 6.30 p.m. for a recorded interview with Sergeant Harrison Schmidt.
[02:23:56] Commonwealth:
I might have one moment, Your Honor. Yes. I think so.
[02:24:06] Speaker 41:
Any cross? Two questions. Had you ever been to that house before?
[02:24:10] Speaker 04:
No, sir.
[02:24:11] Speaker 41:
And you started working at Cohasset in 2018?
[02:24:13] Speaker 04:
Yes, sir.
[02:24:14] Speaker 41:
Thank you, sir.
[02:24:15] Defense:
Can I see counsel at the side of the bench? A witness may step down.
[02:24:39] UNKNOWN:
Thank you. I said your crossword.
[02:25:52] Speaker 05:
Anyone need anything?
[02:26:10] Speaker 30:
No, Your Honor. Have a good break.
[02:26:32] Speaker 03:
Thank you.
[02:27:10] UNKNOWN:
. . Thank you. Thank you. . . . . . . . . you Thank you. Thank you. you Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to go ahead and get started. Thank you. you Thank you. . .
[02:54:35] Speaker 03:
Thank you.
[02:56:40] UNKNOWN:
you
[02:57:14] Speaker 03:
.
[02:57:36] UNKNOWN:
. Thank you. Thank you.
[02:59:21] Speaker 15:
Put us back in session, you may be seated.
[02:59:23] Defense:
I call on my calls, next witness. I call on my calls, Seth Fox.
[02:59:59] Commonwealth:
You may proceed. Thank you very much, your honor. Good morning. Good morning. Could you please state your full name for the record? Seth Fox. And how do you spell your last name?
[03:00:19] Speaker 42:
F-O-X.
[03:00:20] Commonwealth:
Thank you. Mr. Fox, what is your occupation?
[03:00:25] Speaker 42:
I'm a subpoena compliance specialist with Lyft.
[03:00:29] Commonwealth:
And what is a subpoena compliance specialist?
[03:00:34] Speaker 42:
My job is to intake and respond or review subpoenas that are served to Lyft by law enforcement.
[03:00:42] Commonwealth:
And how long have you done that job?
[03:00:45] Speaker 42:
For two and a half years.
[03:00:48] Commonwealth:
And how long have you worked for Lyft?
[03:00:50] Speaker 42:
Since 2018.
[03:00:50] Commonwealth:
And what are your As part of your specific responsibilities, are you a custodian of records for Lyft?
[03:01:00] Speaker 05:
Yes.
[03:01:02] Commonwealth:
And as such, what are your responsibilities as the custodian of records?
[03:01:07] Speaker 42:
To collect, search for and collect records that we are subpoenaed for.
[03:01:11] Commonwealth:
And what entity, when are entities made on business records at Lyft?
[03:01:17] Speaker 42:
At the time they're created.
[03:01:19] Commonwealth:
And why are they made?
[03:01:21] Speaker 42:
for purposes of privacy and security and maintaining data.
[03:01:27] Commonwealth:
And are they made in the normal course of business?
[03:01:29] Speaker 42:
Yes.
[03:01:30] Commonwealth:
And are they made in good faith?
[03:01:32] Speaker 42:
Yes.
[03:01:33] Commonwealth:
What is Lyft?
[03:01:35] Speaker 42:
A technology company that facilitates ride share pairings between drivers and riders through our Lyft app.
[03:01:43] Commonwealth:
So how does Lyft work?
[03:01:45] Speaker 42:
If you're a rider, you would go in, you would first download the Lyft app and then input your information, name, phone number, payment method, and then you can use the app to request a ride to whatever location you're going to. And it pairs you with the driver in your area.
[03:02:02] Commonwealth:
Is Lyft a paid or free service?
[03:02:04] Speaker 05:
Paid.
[03:02:06] Commonwealth:
Are you familiar with the records that have been requested in this case?
[03:02:10] Speaker 05:
Yes.
[03:02:12] Commonwealth:
And have you previously supplied those records to us?
[03:02:15] Speaker 05:
Yes.
[03:02:18] Commonwealth:
And are these the records for the account information for Anna Walsh with a payment and profile for that user?
[03:02:26] Speaker 05:
Yes.
[03:02:27] Commonwealth:
And did Anna Walsh have an account with Lyft?
[03:02:30] Speaker 05:
Yes.
[03:02:31] Commonwealth:
Your Honor, I'm now seeking to admit, which has been previously marked as Exhibit 94, the records of Lyft.
[03:02:43] Defense:
All right, the Lyft records for Anna Walsh are now in evidence as Exhibit 94. Thank you.
[03:02:53] Commonwealth:
May I approach the witness? You may. I'm just going to show you these so you can reference them during your testimony. Thank you. I'm also going to ask, Your Honor, if they could be published to the jury. They may be. Thank you. Ms. Skillman, if we could start with the account. Mr. Fox, when was this account created?
[03:03:32] Speaker 42:
This was created on May 16th of 2022.
[03:03:36] Commonwealth:
And what phone number was associated with the account?
[03:03:41] Speaker 42:
617-599-7966.
[03:03:45] Commonwealth:
And how is the phone number used with Lyft?
[03:03:51] Speaker 42:
The app is through your phone, so you have to download it through your phone, and that phone number is how you create rides or request rides.
[03:03:59] Commonwealth:
And does Lyft keep other information about the account holder's phone?
[03:04:05] Speaker 42:
We keep information such as the IP address at the time the account was created, the phone carrier and the app version that was used, and the operating system on that phone.
[03:04:20] Commonwealth:
And why is that?
[03:04:21] Speaker 42:
For data purposes, for privacy and security.
[03:04:24] Commonwealth:
What kind of phone was used here?
[03:04:27] Speaker 42:
It was a iPhone 14-4.
[03:04:31] Commonwealth:
And who was the carrier?
[03:04:33] Speaker 42:
Verizon.
[03:04:35] Commonwealth:
In addition to keeping that information, do you also keep payment method? Yes. Ms. Gilman, I'd ask you to go to the payment document. And can you tell me about the payment method in these records?
[03:04:54] Speaker 42:
It was a Visa card, last four digits, 5421.
[03:05:03] Commonwealth:
And finally, sir. Ms. Gilman, if you could go to the cover. Were there any rides between December 30th of 2022 and January 8th of 2023 that were used by this rider?
[03:05:25] Speaker 42:
No.
[03:05:32] Defense:
Thank you. Any cross? The witness may step down. Thank you, sir. The Commonwealth may call its next witness.
[03:05:53] Commonwealth:
The Commonwealth calls Alyssa Wimmer. Right this way. and you may proceed. Thank you so much. Good morning. Good morning.
[03:06:43] Speaker 26:
Could you please state your name, spell your last name for the record? Yes, my name is Alyssa Wimmer, W-I-M-M-E-R. And what is your occupation, ma'am? I work for Uber Technologies. And what is your title? I am one of their regional public safety liaisons.
[03:07:01] Commonwealth:
And how long have you worked for Uber Technologies? Approximately a year and a half. And always in the same position? Yes. And what are your specific responsibilities?
[03:07:14] Speaker 26:
My job is to assist law enforcement within my region, which includes the Northeast United States, with complex or critical safety incidents that have some sort of a nexus to the Uber platform.
[03:07:26] Commonwealth:
And as part of your job, have you been designated as a custodian of records? Yes. As such, what are your responsibilities?
[03:07:37] Speaker 26:
I'm able to look at requests that law enforcement put through our portal for Uber, locate data that they are requesting, and then produce that data to law enforcement.
[03:07:51] Commonwealth:
And when are entries made on business records at Uber Technologies? At the time of the event or shortly thereafter.
[03:07:58] Speaker 26:
And why are they made? In order to maintain our regular course of business. and are they made in good faith? Yes. What is Uber Technologies? So we're more commonly known as Uber. We are a technology company that facilitates various transportation and delivery services under our platform. So we're probably most commonly known for our ride share feature, which allows a user to access the Uber application, request a trip with a pickup location and a drop-off location, and then Uber will match that person with the driver, and the driver will transport the individual from point A to point B.
[03:08:39] Commonwealth:
Is Uber a pay or free service? A paid service. Are you familiar with the records that have been requested in this case? Yes. And did you provide those records previously? Uber did, yes. And were those records for account information for 617-599-7966? Yes. And did Uber have an account for 617-599-7966? Yes. And you have seen those records? Yes. Your Honor, I'd ask at this time, those were provided digitally. Correct. I'd ask at this time that the records which have been marked on a thumb drive as exhibit 95, previously marked, be the next exhibit.
[03:09:34] Defense:
And that's grade two? Yes, Your Honor. The Uber records for the phone number recited are now in evidence as exhibit 95. Thank you.
[03:09:44] Commonwealth:
And I ask that they be published both for the witness and the jury. You may do that. Thank you. I'd ask that we start with response on page two. So why are records based on a phone number for Uber?
[03:10:05] Speaker 26:
Uber does not require individuals to provide legal verification of their identity. So a user can choose whatever display name they want on their account, but we do verify phone number and or email address. So when law enforcement is requesting data from us, we often require a phone number or an email address in order to locate the account.
[03:10:27] Commonwealth:
And what name was associated with this account? Anna Walsh. And what email is associated with this account?
[03:10:38] Speaker 26:
It's a-n-c-i-l-i-8-3 at yahoo.com.
[03:10:46] Commonwealth:
And was there also a date of birth at the bottom?
[03:10:55] Speaker 26:
So that date of birth was provided by law enforcement to Uber as an identifier in order to search for those records. And that date of birth was April 12th of 1983.
[03:11:05] Commonwealth:
And were there going to the next attachment to the response, please? Were there any rides between December 30th of 2022 and January 8th of 2023?
[03:11:27] Speaker 26:
There were two trips taken from that account on December 30th of 2022.
[03:11:39] Commonwealth:
Can you tell us where those were?
[03:11:41] Speaker 26:
Well, columns G and H will tell you where the rider said they wanted to be picked up in GPS coordinates. Columns I and J will tell you where the rider was actually picked up. Columns K and L will tell you where the rider wanted to be dropped off. And columns M and N will tell you where the rider was actually dropped off.
[03:12:12] Commonwealth:
Longitude and latitude? Correct. And those are GPS coordinates, like if you put into Google Maps or something like that? Correct. And can you tell from this about payment method?
[03:12:26] Speaker 26:
Yes, columns O and P and Q contain information about the credit card that was used to pay for these two rides. Column O was going to be the first six digits on that credit card number. Column P is going to be the last four digits of that credit card number. And then column Q is the expiration date for the credit card.
[03:12:50] Commonwealth:
And can you tell us what columns R, S, and T are?
[03:12:55] Speaker 26:
Yes. Column R is how much the trip costs in United States currency. Column S is the distance of the trip in miles. And Column T is going to be the duration of the trip in minutes.
[03:13:13] Commonwealth:
Were any other rides taken besides these two rides?
[03:13:17] Speaker 26:
Between the dates that you indicated? Exactly. No.
[03:13:20] Commonwealth:
Were any other accounts registered with Uber connected to that phone number, credit card, or email?
[03:13:29] Speaker 26:
I believe there was another account linked to that phone number, but there was no activity on it at all.
[03:13:37] Commonwealth:
And going back to response page two, Where do you see that? Is that somewhere there?
[03:13:58] Speaker 26:
No. I believe this request was also related to information about trips that were taken, and this account had trips on it, whereas I believe there was another account linked to this phone number that was never used, never had any trips on it at all.
[03:14:22] Commonwealth:
So there were no trips for that date? Correct. So no information was supplied?
[03:14:28] Speaker 26:
Correct.
[03:14:30] Commonwealth:
Thank you.
[03:14:31] Defense:
You're welcome. Cross. The witness may step down. Thank you. Thank you.
[03:14:49] Commonwealth:
Commonwealth may call its next witness. Thank you, Your Honor. The Commonwealth would call Michael Kenyon.
[03:15:24] Speaker 40:
Right this way, sir.
[03:15:32] Defense:
You may proceed.
[03:15:33] Commonwealth:
Thank you, Your Honor. Good morning, sir. How are you? I'm very good, sir. But my first question to you is, what's your name?
[03:15:40] Speaker 29:
Michael Kenyon, Swampscout Police Department.
[03:15:42] Commonwealth:
And can you spell your last name for us? K-E-N-Y-O-N. And sir, you said Swampscout Police Department. What did you rank there?
[03:15:49] Speaker 29:
I'm an officer.
[03:15:50] Commonwealth:
And how long have you been an officer? How long have you been with the Swampscout Police Department?
[03:15:53] Speaker 29:
Since 2020.
[03:15:55] Commonwealth:
Now, I'd like to ask you some questions about January 9th of 2023, were you working that day? Yes. What time do you think you might have got to dispatch to 330 Paradise Road?
[03:16:08] Speaker 29:
Sometime right around three o'clock. Can you describe 330 Paradise Road for us in Swampscott? It's an apartment complex on Paradise Road in Swampscott. And why were you there? I had been advised by my OIC to go up there and assist some police agencies.
[03:16:23] Defense:
And so what... Please. Just lean right into that microphone and keep your voice up.
[03:16:28] Commonwealth:
Okay.
[03:16:28] Defense:
Thank you.
[03:16:29] Commonwealth:
If you pull it right to you and make it, there you go. So when you got there, what did you see?
[03:16:34] Speaker 29:
Multiple police agencies. The Mass State Police CPAC unit was there, Mass Crime Scene, and some representatives from Swampscott CID were there.
[03:16:44] Commonwealth:
And were they near any areas in particular, 330 Paradise Road?
[03:16:48] Speaker 29:
Yes.
[03:16:49] Commonwealth:
What?
[03:16:49] Speaker 29:
They were near the trash compact or in the dumpster.
[03:16:54] Commonwealth:
At this point in time, the Commonwealth would seek to publish what's been previously stipulated to as exhibits 90 and 91 photographs from 330 Paradise Road.
[03:17:06] Defense:
As agreed, they're now in evidence as 90 and 91.
[03:17:11] Commonwealth:
Ms. Gilman, can we have HAS 6436, which is exhibit 90? Sir, did you see that?
[03:17:20] Speaker 45:
Yes.
[03:17:21] Commonwealth:
Is that one of the two dumpsters or compactors you had the opportunity to be near at 330 Paradise Road that day?
[03:17:28] Speaker 45:
Yes.
[03:17:29] Commonwealth:
All right. And Ms. Gilman, can we have exhibit 91, HAS 6469? And sir, do you see this object? Yes. Is that the, what's this compared to the other receptacle you saw?
[03:17:44] Speaker 29:
This is a trash compactor.
[03:17:46] Commonwealth:
And so you get there, you see all these officers, and you see these two objects, what happens next?
[03:17:52] Speaker 29:
The trash compactor and the dumps are secured on flatbeds. OK. And so then what do you do? I was advised that I was going to lead a caravan from our location to another location.
[03:18:02] Commonwealth:
And so where was the other location you were going to go to?
[03:18:08] Speaker 29:
At the time, it was JRM, but it's the Republic Trash Services at 304th Street in Peabody.
[03:18:13] Commonwealth:
OK. Now? So what do you do, you've got this location in Peabody, what happens next?
[03:18:20] Speaker 29:
So I leave the caravan from 330 Paradise Road in Swampscott to the Republic Trash Services at 300 Forest Street in Peabody. Upon arrival, I blocked traffic on Forest Street and allowed the caravan to enter the JRM or the Republic Trash Plant.
[03:18:38] Commonwealth:
And you say the caravan, what was in the caravan?
[03:18:41] Speaker 29:
Caravan was me leading the trash compactor and the dumpster on flatbeds behind me. And then multiple police cruisers being the state or crime scene. And then some swamps got police unmarked.
[03:19:00] Commonwealth:
And after those cruisers in the dumpster and the compactor went up to the trash spot, what did you do?
[03:19:10] Speaker 29:
secured the gate and went back to Solemn Scott to work my shift.
[03:19:14] Commonwealth:
No further questions, Your Honor.
[03:19:17] Defense:
Any cross? Just one. Witness may step down. Thank you, sir.
[03:19:21] Speaker 41:
I just have one question.
[03:19:22] Defense:
Oh, I'm sorry.
[03:19:23] Speaker 41:
That's my fault. With regards to the exhibit 91, that trash compactor, do you have any knowledge of whether that had trash in it? No. Thank you, sir.
[03:19:38] Defense:
No, Your Honor. The witness may step down. Thank you. Commonwealth may call us next. Witness.
[03:19:57] Commonwealth:
The Commonwealth calls Sergeant Amy Waterman.
[03:20:37] Defense:
and you may proceed. Good morning.
[03:20:41] Commonwealth:
Good morning. Could you please state your name and spell your last name for the record?
[03:20:46] Witness:
Yes, Amy Waterman, W-A-T-E-R-M-A-N. And how are you employed? I'm a sergeant with the Massachusetts State Police.
[03:20:54] Commonwealth:
And how were you employed in January of 2023?
[03:20:58] Witness:
I was a trooper assigned to the Massachusetts State Police. In what unit? The Violent Fugitive Apprehension Section, which falls under the Division of Investigative Services.
[03:21:08] Commonwealth:
And did you go to 5334 43rd Street Northwest in Washington DC on January 7th of 2023? Yes, I did. And who did you go to that location with?
[03:21:23] Witness:
Lieutenant Michael Lopes from the Cohasset Police Department.
[03:21:27] Commonwealth:
And do you remember approximately what time you went there on the 7th of January?
[03:21:33] Witness:
Yeah, it was approximately 1140 a.m. And whose home was that? That was the home of Anna Walsh. And did you know Anna Walsh? No, I did not. And why were you at her home? We had been sent down to D.C. to search her residence there in regards to a missing person case. Can you please describe that home? It was a three-story brick corner unit. I would call it like a townhouse, brick townhouse.
[03:22:07] Commonwealth:
And was there any security or ring doorbells or anything like that when you got to that home?
[03:22:14] Witness:
No. And how did you enter the home? The basement level was a garage and Lieutenant Lopes was in possession of the key code combination for the door.
[03:22:28] Commonwealth:
To the garage? Correct. And so did you go into the garage? Yes. And what observations were made of the garage?
[03:22:38] Witness:
There was several boxes of miscellaneous items, which there was some carpets that were rolled up. There was things you would find in the garage, like a wet vac. No vehicles were found. It was pretty neatly organized.
[03:22:56] Commonwealth:
And were there any other rooms attached to the garage?
[03:23:00] Witness:
Through the door, there was a smaller room, I would call it an exercise room. There was a treadmill, a chair, and a couple other items, like a weight bench.
[03:23:16] Commonwealth:
So besides that garage level, what did you do next?
[03:23:21] Witness:
We opened, there was an interior door that led to a stairwell that went up to the actual apartment of the townhouse.
[03:23:28] Commonwealth:
And were you able to get through that door?
[03:23:31] Witness:
Yes.
[03:23:33] Commonwealth:
And did you need an additional key or code or anything to get through that?
[03:23:38] Witness:
No.
[03:23:39] Commonwealth:
And so how did you get through that? Was it unlocked for you?
[03:23:44] Witness:
I believe it was, yes. Okay. And so where did you then go? We went up a set of stairs that led to what I would call the first floor of the townhouse. It was three residential floors. So we went up to the first floor.
[03:23:59] Commonwealth:
And can you describe that first floor, please, for the jury?
[03:24:02] Witness:
Yes, it was the main kitchen area. There was a restroom. in that area as well as like a living area, like a seating area.
[03:24:11] Commonwealth:
Okay. And what was the condition of the kitchen?
[03:24:16] Witness:
It was very neat and tidy. Nothing really out of place.
[03:24:22] Commonwealth:
Did you look around?
[03:24:23] Witness:
We did.
[03:24:25] Commonwealth:
Was there anything in the fridge?
[03:24:27] Witness:
Yeah, there was some, I don't remember exactly, but there was some food items in the fridge.
[03:24:32] Commonwealth:
And what did you see in the rest of the area of the first, of that main floor you said?
[03:24:37] Witness:
Again, it was neatly put together. There was some miscellaneous personal items that you would typically find in a kitchen or a living area, furniture. So it was furnished? Correct.
[03:24:52] Commonwealth:
And so after looking at that kitchen floor, what did you do next?
[03:24:58] Witness:
Once we took a look at that floor, we went up, ascended up the stairs to the second floor.
[03:25:03] Commonwealth:
And when you say we, you're talking about?
[03:25:05] Witness:
Yes, Lieutenant Lopes. Okay.
[03:25:06] Commonwealth:
Was anyone else with you?
[03:25:07] Witness:
No, it was just the two of us.
[03:25:09] Commonwealth:
So after you finished looking at the kitchen, you said you went up to the next floor?
[03:25:14] Witness:
Correct.
[03:25:15] Commonwealth:
And what was on and how did you get to the next floor?
[03:25:18] Witness:
We took the stairs up and there was another interior door that opened up into a larger area. And what did you see there? I would describe it as the primary bedroom. Essentially the whole floor was one big bedroom. There was off to the left there was a maybe described as like an office area. There was a desk and just a couple sitting chairs that was to the left as you went in. To the right was the the bed and there was a walk-in closet and right before the walk-in closet there was a door to the left which was a bathroom.
[03:25:59] Commonwealth:
Did you make any observations of the bed?
[03:26:02] Witness:
The bed was made. There was a couple female clothing items that were on the bed.
[03:26:08] Commonwealth:
Did you make any observations of the closet?
[03:26:14] Witness:
The closet was full of clothing, shoes, sunglasses, handbags, miscellaneous things.
[03:26:24] Commonwealth:
Did you make any observations of men's clothing in the closet?
[03:26:30] Witness:
Yes, there was some men's clothing.
[03:26:32] Commonwealth:
And what about the bathroom?
[03:26:34] Witness:
Can you describe the bathroom? Like the rest of the house, it was neat and tidy. There were personal items such as hair products and toothbrushes and soaps and things like that.
[03:26:47] Commonwealth:
Was there another floor?
[03:26:49] Witness:
Yes, there was a third floor.
[03:26:51] Commonwealth:
And how did you get to that floor?
[03:26:53] Witness:
We ascended up the stairs.
[03:26:55] Commonwealth:
And what was on the third floor?
[03:26:57] Witness:
The third floor consisted of another restroom, another bathroom, and there were three smaller bedrooms.
[03:27:07] Commonwealth:
And what observations did you make of the three smaller bedrooms?
[03:27:11] Witness:
They appeared to be rooms for children, all contains kids' furniture, all very nicely kept and neat. There were various toys and clothing that would tell us that it belonged to the children.
[03:27:28] Commonwealth:
And how were the beds in those rooms?
[03:27:30] Witness:
They were made.
[03:27:31] Commonwealth:
And what size were those beds, if you remember?
[03:27:36] Witness:
I don't recall.
[03:27:37] Commonwealth:
Okay. What was the general condition of the home?
[03:27:41] Witness:
Again, very neat and tidy, well organized.
[03:27:46] Commonwealth:
And in general, did you find any paperwork or anything in the home?
[03:27:50] Witness:
We did.
[03:27:50] Commonwealth:
And where was that generally found?
[03:27:52] Witness:
Mostly in the kitchen.
[03:27:55] Commonwealth:
And did you find on a Walsh in the home?
[03:27:57] Witness:
No, we did not.
[03:28:09] Commonwealth:
Nothing further, Your Honor.
[03:28:11] Witness:
Cross exam.
[03:28:13] Speaker 41:
Thank you, Judge. Good morning.
[03:28:14] Witness:
Good morning, sir.
[03:28:15] Speaker 40:
You've used the word neat many times.
[03:28:18] Witness:
Correct.
[03:28:20] Speaker 40:
Yes.
[03:28:23] Witness:
Correct. Yes, sir. What was the question? Oh, primarily in the kitchen. Yes.
[03:28:33] Speaker 41:
Where in the kitchen?
[03:28:35] Witness:
I don't remember exactly. I believe it was there was a Countertop with some shelves underneath it.
[03:28:44] Speaker 41:
I believe that's where it was found Okay, did you you mentioned what I thought I heard you say you mentioned something like a study or a desk or something in one of the bit in the yes in the primary bedroom there was a Desk and did you go through the drawers looking for other documents? I don't recall if we did or not So when you left, did you take all the documents that you've found that we thought were significant? We took some yes, okay and How did you know what kind of documents to look for, the significance of them?
[03:29:16] Witness:
Based on the address, personal documents for travel was kind of what we were looking for.
[03:29:23] Speaker 41:
Okay. And you said that you saw some men's clothes?
[03:29:27] Witness:
Yes.
[03:29:27] Speaker 41:
And they were in the closet?
[03:29:29] Witness:
Yes.
[03:29:29] Speaker 41:
There were no other men's clothes anywhere else that you can recall?
[03:29:32] Witness:
Not that I can recall. All right.
[03:29:34] Speaker 41:
Thank you very much.
[03:29:34] Witness:
Thank you.
[03:29:35] Defense:
Any redirect? No, thank you. The witness may step down, thank you.
[03:29:40] Witness:
Thank you, Your Honor.
[03:29:50] Defense:
Commonwealth may call its next witness.
[03:29:52] Commonwealth:
Your Honor, before we call, can we approach? Sure.
[03:30:08] UNKNOWN:
you
[03:30:53] Defense:
Thank you, Your Honor.
[03:30:55] Commonwealth:
The Commonwealth would call Peter Cappazzoli.
[03:31:34] Speaker 01:
Thank you.
[03:31:37] Defense:
And you may proceed.
[03:31:38] Commonwealth:
Thank you, Your Honor. Good afternoon, sir. Good afternoon. Sir, I'm going to ask you if you pull that microphone closer to you, because it's going to amplify your voice and everyone will be able to hear you. Can you state your name for the record and spell your last name? Peter Cappazzoli, C-A-P-O-Z-Z-O-L-I. And sir, by the way, that is perfect as far as the volume. Are you familiar with Cohasset Imports? Yes. What is Cohasset Imports?
[03:32:04] Witness:
It's a used car dealership, sales and service. And how are you familiar with it? I'm the owner.
[03:32:11] Commonwealth:
Ms. Gilman, could we have what was entered in today as Exhibit 84? Thank you, Ms. Kempel. Sir, I'm showing you what's been previously marked as Exhibit 84. Do you see at the bottom where it says Cohasset Imports? Yes. Now, sir, where is your home in relation to Cohasset Imports? to the right up the driveway. And, sir, are you familiar with 516 Chief Justice Cushing Highway? Yes.
[03:33:03] Witness:
How are you familiar with it? I own it. And how long have you owned it? Since September 2019.
[03:33:11] Commonwealth:
And do you see 516 Chief Justice Cushing Highway in relation to this photograph that has Cohassin imports on it?
[03:33:17] Witness:
Yes, I do.
[03:33:18] Commonwealth:
And can you point it out for us, sir? Right there. In the middle, sir? Right here. I can't see where your finger is. In the middle, yes. Thank you, sir. Now, sir, is that your primary residence, 516? No. What do you do with that property?
[03:33:36] Witness:
I rent it.
[03:33:37] Commonwealth:
And so, sir, are you familiar with the Walsh family? Yes. And how are you familiar with the Walsh family?
[03:33:47] Witness:
They were the last tenants that we rented to.
[03:33:50] Commonwealth:
And now, when did you begin renting to the Walsh family?
[03:33:54] Witness:
I believe it was March of 22.
[03:33:57] Commonwealth:
And what was the initial terms of the lease?
[03:34:03] Witness:
The first six months, I took less per month. I believe $4,800 a month. to have them pay up front. Yes, sir. That was something they wanted. Okay.
[03:34:18] Commonwealth:
And so in how long, how many months was the lease for? The first one was six months. And did you ever have to have another lease with them? Yes. And when was that?
[03:34:30] Witness:
So we extended it for the full 5,000 per month for another six months, I believe.
[03:34:38] Commonwealth:
Now, during the course of the Walsh family at 516 Chief Justice Cushing Highway, how many times did you have the opportunity to see Anna Walsh? Three or four times. And how many times would you have the opportunities to see Brian Walsh?
[03:34:57] Witness:
He brought the check every month, so I would see him each month once and then maybe another five or six times in between that.
[03:35:06] Commonwealth:
Now, sir, do you see Mr. Walsh here today?
[03:35:08] Witness:
Yes.
[03:35:09] Commonwealth:
Could you identify him with some article of clothing he may be wearing?
[03:35:13] Witness:
A tie with a black jacket.
[03:35:15] Commonwealth:
Your honor, if the record may reflect that the witnesses identify the defendant.
[03:35:19] Defense:
The record will so reflect.
[03:35:25] Commonwealth:
Now, sir, as far as any kind of fixes to the property or anything like that, who would perform repairs to the property?
[03:35:39] Witness:
I did.
[03:35:40] Commonwealth:
How often did you have to do that?
[03:35:43] Witness:
Just three or four times.
[03:35:44] Commonwealth:
What type of things would you have to fix?
[03:35:47] Witness:
The first time was a dripping faucet. I went in, figured the problem, went back, ordered some pots, got the pots, came back and fixed it.
[03:36:01] Commonwealth:
And besides a leaky faucet, anything else that you had to fix?
[03:36:05] Witness:
One time there was a loose hinge on a hutch in the kitchen and I came in on a Sunday morning and worked on that and corrected that. Was anyone home when you fixed the hitch? Yes. Who was home? Anna was home and the three boys.
[03:36:24] Commonwealth:
Now, besides making those two repairs, any other significant repairs to the home?
[03:36:31] Witness:
Yes, one other one in the middle of July, the AC stopped working. So I went over at night, looked at it for a few hours, checked everything I could, knew what I had, knew what I didn't have. So then I had an electrician come in the morning. He showed up, I think, at 8 o'clock. After five minutes, he said, where's the shutoff switch for the heater AC unit? I said, I didn't know. It was upstairs. So it was upstairs in the entryway coming in the side door, and the switch had been flipped off. That's why the AC didn't work.
[03:37:16] Commonwealth:
All right, so pretty basic fixes.
[03:37:17] Witness:
Yes.
[03:37:18] Commonwealth:
Now, sir, as far as the basement of the house, When you rented it, what was in the basement?
[03:37:27] Witness:
Just a few small things and a dehumidifier, maybe a small table and two refrigerators that were not hooked up.
[03:37:40] Commonwealth:
Now, and Ms. Kilman, if you could just take down that exhibit, thank you. In late December of 2022, what did you do as far as going away on a vacation?
[03:37:54] Witness:
I went to the Caribbean over New Year's.
[03:37:58] Commonwealth:
And during that time, did you ever receive any calls from Mr. Brian Walsh?
[03:38:02] Witness:
Yes.
[03:38:03] Commonwealth:
When?
[03:38:05] Witness:
I believe it was Thursday of the week that I was there, if I'm not mistaken, somewhere in the late afternoon time frame.
[03:38:15] Commonwealth:
And can you tell us about the conversation? What was the conversation you had with Mr. Wallace in this phone call?
[03:38:20] Witness:
Yes. So he had asked me if I had security on my building, and I said no, not at this time. We were still in the building process. So I said, why? And he said, well, my wife is missing. She took an Uber this morning. I was supposed to take an Uber this morning to go to DC for work. And we haven't found her and she didn't show up in DC. Did you tell you what time she left? I think in the four to five range in the morning.
[03:38:56] Commonwealth:
Now, and you said that your building was under construction. What building was being worked on?
[03:39:01] Witness:
Oh, Cohasset Imports.
[03:39:02] Commonwealth:
And did you tell them about any other places that might have cameras?
[03:39:09] Witness:
Next door north of me, there's a home, and I thought he might have security. So I mentioned the name and said you could check with him.
[03:39:24] Commonwealth:
Now, sir, on the lease you had with the Walsh family, are you familiar with that lease? Yes. One moment.
[03:39:43] Defense:
Your Honor, can I make an approach? You may.
[03:39:49] Commonwealth:
Mr. Capizzoli, I'm handing you a document. Do you recognize it?
[03:39:53] Witness:
Yes, that's the lease.
[03:39:57] Commonwealth:
And Your Honor, I seek to have this marked as the next exhibit.
[03:40:01] Defense:
Any objection?
[03:40:02] Speaker 21:
None, Your Honor.
[03:40:04] Defense:
I think the next one is 96. The lease for 516 Chief Justice Highway is in evidence as exhibit 96.
[03:40:22] Commonwealth:
Directing your attention to page four under tenant. Can you see who the tenant is of the lease in the address affixed to that.
[03:40:36] Witness:
Yes, Diana Walsh, and the address is 330 Paradise Road, Apartment 1320 in Swampscott, Mass.
[03:40:49] Commonwealth:
And Council. Your item, approach one more time. You may. Thank you. Mr. Capazzoli, I'm handing you a photograph. Sir, do you recognize the room of the photographs taken in?
[03:41:08] Witness:
Yes.
[03:41:09] Commonwealth:
And do you recognize the person in that photograph?
[03:41:13] Witness:
Well, I think it's Anna.
[03:41:14] Commonwealth:
OK. And the room, is it a fair and accurate depiction of the room that you recognize?
[03:41:21] Witness:
Yes.
[03:41:22] Commonwealth:
And what room is it that you recognize?
[03:41:24] Witness:
It's the living room, den, yep.
[03:41:27] Speaker 31:
The commonwealth would seek to have Mr. Marcus in the next city, Your Honor.
[03:41:31] Defense:
Any objection? Photo is now in evidence as Exhibit 97.
[03:41:36] Speaker 30:
Your Honor, if the Commonwealth may publish briefly.
[03:41:47] Commonwealth:
Yes. Thank you. Ms. Gellin, can we have still three? Mr. Capazzoli, how do you recognize this is the living room?
[03:42:01] Witness:
So when you walk in the front door, it's the room to the left. It's the only room that had a rug. It's the only room downstairs that has a fireplace.
[03:42:12] Commonwealth:
You can take that down. Thank you. Your Honor, may I have just a moment?
[03:42:16] Defense:
Yes.
[03:42:17] Speaker 30:
Thank you, Your Honor.
[03:42:29] Commonwealth:
Now, sir, I neglected to ask you this. When you rented the home to the Walsh family, was it furnished?
[03:42:39] Witness:
Yes, partially furnished, yes.
[03:42:43] Commonwealth:
Nothing further, Your Honor.
[03:42:50] Defense:
Good afternoon. Sorry, guys. Sorry, this is in my typing mode.
[03:42:54] Commonwealth:
Go right ahead.
[03:42:56] Defense:
Okay, hello.
[03:42:57] Commonwealth:
You were talking about the property in Cohasset, and one of the rooms you were talking about was the basement?
[03:43:03] Witness:
Yes.
[03:43:03] Commonwealth:
Am I correct that the basement wasn't furnished?
[03:43:06] Witness:
Correct.
[03:43:07] Commonwealth:
It wasn't properly heated?
[03:43:11] Witness:
No heat, just for what comes from the boiler, right? No.
[03:43:17] Commonwealth:
There wasn't a play room for kids.
[03:43:19] Witness:
Oh.
[03:43:20] Commonwealth:
There wasn't a rug, it was just a cement floor.
[03:43:23] Witness:
Yes.
[03:43:23] Commonwealth:
And the basement not only had access to the house, but it also would have had access to get outside of the house.
[03:43:31] Witness:
A walk-through door, a regular door, yes.
[03:43:34] Commonwealth:
You had also mentioned, I believe, Mr. Conner introduced the lease, and that lease was in Diana Walsh's name?
[03:43:42] Witness:
Yes.
[03:43:43] Commonwealth:
And to your knowledge, that was Mr. Walsh's mother?
[03:43:47] Witness:
Yes.
[03:43:48] Commonwealth:
And the first six months of the lease, that was paid in full?
[03:43:51] Witness:
Yes.
[03:43:52] Commonwealth:
By Mrs. Walsh, Mrs. Diana Walsh?
[03:43:54] Witness:
Yes.
[03:43:56] Commonwealth:
And were you looking to, was your intention to rent that property in smaller increments? Or that's just what came to you with the Walshes that time?
[03:44:06] Witness:
That's what came to me.
[03:44:07] Commonwealth:
Okay. And in speaking to the Walshes, it was your understanding that the reason they were looking for short-term housing was because the family was planning to relocate to Washington, D.C.?
[03:44:18] Witness:
That's correct.
[03:44:20] Commonwealth:
And after the six months, they approached to extend the lease, right?
[03:44:24] Witness:
Yes.
[03:44:25] Commonwealth:
And what month was that, if you remember?
[03:44:31] Witness:
August or September, something in that?
[03:44:34] Commonwealth:
2022? Yes. Okay. And when they first came to you to extend the lease, they only wanted to extend it for three months.
[03:44:42] Witness:
Yes.
[03:44:43] Commonwealth:
And that was because their trip to D.C. was impending, was coming up?
[03:44:47] Witness:
Yes.
[03:44:48] Commonwealth:
Okay. And your understanding was that when Mr. and Mrs. Walsh and their three young children went to D.C., that Diana Walsh might move in and take over?
[03:44:58] Witness:
Yes.
[03:44:59] Commonwealth:
And it sounds like you didn't want to do such a short lease, so you agreed to do six months.
[03:45:05] Witness:
Yes.
[03:45:06] Commonwealth:
And during those six months, you mentioned that Mr. Walsh would bring you the rent check, right?
[03:45:11] Witness:
Yes.
[03:45:12] Commonwealth:
But the rent was being still paid by Diana Walsh, his mother.
[03:45:16] Witness:
Correct, yes.
[03:45:17] Commonwealth:
And that was $5,000 a month?
[03:45:18] Witness:
Yes.
[03:45:19] Commonwealth:
OK. You had mentioned that you had done a couple repairs to the property as a landlord?
[03:45:26] Witness:
Yes.
[03:45:27] Commonwealth:
And one of the things that you mentioned is there was a leaky faucet.
[03:45:31] Witness:
Yes.
[03:45:32] Commonwealth:
And something like a leaky faucet, is that something that the Walshes would be financially responsible to fix?
[03:45:38] Witness:
No.
[03:45:39] Commonwealth:
Because that's just normal wear and tear of them all?
[03:45:41] Witness:
Yes.
[03:45:42] Commonwealth:
And I think the second thing you said was there a hinge on a hutch that was loose?
[03:45:47] Witness:
Yes.
[03:45:48] Commonwealth:
And that was something that you could just go over with a screwdriver?
[03:45:52] Witness:
I had to replace the hinge. OK.
[03:45:55] Commonwealth:
And is that something that was normal wear and tear, or did the Walshes damage that and they would have to pay for it?
[03:46:02] Witness:
Probably wear and tear, but it could have opened too far and broke the hinge, not sure.
[03:46:07] Commonwealth:
OK. Yeah. In the lease, or your understanding, would there be some damage that the Walshes could have done to the home that they would have to be financially responsible for?
[03:46:20] Witness:
Yes.
[03:46:21] Commonwealth:
So for example, if a large hole in the ceiling happened during their tenancy, you wouldn't run over there and get up on a ladder and drywall the ceiling and fix a hole in yourself?
[03:46:35] Witness:
No, I wouldn't.
[03:46:37] Commonwealth:
And that would be something that isn't regular wear and tear, right?
[03:46:41] Witness:
I would say that's not regular wear and tear, no.
[03:46:44] Commonwealth:
Okay. So that would be something that the Walshes would be responsible for paying for and covering?
[03:46:52] Witness:
Sure, if they actually did it, if it wasn't something that the House had control over, yes.
[03:47:02] Commonwealth:
Okay, and you had mentioned that other than the rent check that you would see Mr. Walsh, when you say five or six times, do you mean five or six times a month or do you mean five or six times over the course of the lease?
[03:47:13] Witness:
Over the course of the lease, yep.
[03:47:15] Commonwealth:
And would you ever see him with any of his three little boys?
[03:47:20] Witness:
No, not outside the house, no.
[03:47:23] Commonwealth:
Okay. And you said you saw Anna Walsh on a couple of occasions? Yes. And that was with Mr. Walsh or by herself and the boys?
[03:47:31] Witness:
By herself.
[03:47:32] Commonwealth:
Okay. Nothing further.
[03:47:34] Witness:
With the boys, I'm sorry. By herself, with the boys.
[03:47:36] Commonwealth:
By herself, with the boys. Okay.
[03:47:38] Defense:
Thank you, Your Honor. Nothing further. Any redirect? No, Your Honor. The witness may step down. Thank you, sir.
[03:47:44] Witness:
Okay. Thank you.
[03:48:00] Speaker 32:
And the Commonwealth may call its next witness.
[03:48:34] Speaker 14:
You may proceed.
[03:48:46] Commonwealth:
Thank you. Good afternoon, sir. Good afternoon. Could you state your name and spell your last name for the record? Sure, it's Mark Selvaji. It's S-E-L-V-A-G-G-I. And sir, what do you do for a living? I sell life insurance. And are you affiliated with any life insurance company? Yes. Which one? New York Life. How long have you been selling life insurance? A little over 10 years. And in that 10 years, have you always been affiliated with New York Life? Yes. Now, sir, who is Nancy McLoone? She's a colleague of mine.
[03:49:15] Witness:
And what is her responsibilities within your office? She fills out our applications, does our underwriting requirements, traffics the cases through underwriting. And where is your office located? 1050 Hangham Street, Rockland, Mass.
[03:49:29] Commonwealth:
And besides Ms. McLoone, who else is in the office? Half a dozen other agents. Okay. And what are your responsibilities in the office?
[03:49:37] Witness:
speak with clients, talk to them about life insurance protection.
[03:49:42] Commonwealth:
So there's some clients I'd like to ask you about are Brian and Ana Walsh.
[03:49:49] Witness:
Yeah.
[03:49:49] Commonwealth:
Are you familiar with Ana Walsh?
[03:49:51] Witness:
Yes.
[03:49:51] Commonwealth:
How did you become familiar with Ana Walsh?
[03:49:53] Witness:
I was introduced to her through Brian.
[03:49:56] Commonwealth:
Okay, and how did you become familiar with Brian Walsh?
[03:49:58] Witness:
Brian came to me as a client that was a lead that was solicited and I reached out to him. It was a local address and asked him. He was looking for life insurance. When did this occur? I believe in July of 2021.
[03:50:13] Commonwealth:
And when did you get introduced to Ana Walsh?
[03:50:20] Witness:
I don't remember specifically. It was during COVID, so it might have been happenstance during a Zoom conversation. Okay.
[03:50:32] Commonwealth:
And were you ever able to sell Anna Walsh any insurance policies?
[03:50:36] Witness:
Yes.
[03:50:36] Commonwealth:
What did you sell her for insurance policies?
[03:50:38] Witness:
I sold her two life insurance policies.
[03:50:41] Commonwealth:
Okay. So let's talk about the two life insurance policies. Sir, what were you able to sell her as far as life insurance policies?
[03:50:52] Witness:
I was able to sell her a term policy and a whole life policy.
[03:50:56] Commonwealth:
Okay.
[03:50:57] Witness:
What is a term life insurance policy? Term life insurance is a type of life insurance product that is good for a preset amount of time. It was approximately a 20-year, or was a 20-year term product. That was for a million dollars.
[03:51:14] Commonwealth:
And now that was for a million dollars. What was the other policy?
[03:51:18] Witness:
I sold her a whole life policy. That was for $250,000. Can you tell us what is the difference between a whole life policy and a term policy? Sure. A term policy is renting a block of insurance for a pre-agreed upon amount of time. It could be anywhere from a year to as long as 30 years. And if you don't pass away during that duration, the insurance company, The contract ends, the insurance company doesn't pay anything out. A whole life policy, kind of like the name implies, lasts your whole life. And unfortunately, all of us someday will pass. And whole life policies pay out 100% of the time. They cost more. They can be paid up during your working years and have it last the rest of your life. But you also have the opportunity to access all the cash value that the policy accumulates and can use it as a deferred savings vehicle.
[03:52:13] Commonwealth:
And, Your Honor, at this point in time, I would like to offer two policies and the attachments that were included with them from New York Life in the names of Anna Walsh. They are Manila folders. They are policies ending in 8840 and 5836.
[03:52:35] Speaker 21:
No objection, Your Honor.
[03:52:40] Defense:
The New York Life policy ending in 8840 is now marked in evidence as and is in evidence as 98. The New York Life policy ending 5836 is now in evidence as exhibit 99.
[03:52:55] Speaker 32:
Your Honor, may I approach the witness with exhibit 9899?
[03:53:03] Defense:
You may.
[03:53:09] Commonwealth:
We'll put them on together. Excellent, sir. All right. Showing you exhibit 98. At the top of the first document, can you tell us what it says?
[03:53:18] Witness:
Sure.
[03:53:19] Commonwealth:
What is that?
[03:53:21] Witness:
This is a term policy. This is a policy brief for ANA.
[03:53:26] Commonwealth:
OK. And does it have, for ANA, does it list the amount of the term policy?
[03:53:31] Witness:
Sure. It lists the face amount of a million dollars.
[03:53:35] Commonwealth:
On the fourth page, does it list who the beneficiary is of that policy?
[03:53:41] Speaker 46:
It does.
[03:53:55] Speaker 37:
Yes, it does.
[03:53:56] Commonwealth:
Who is the beneficiary of that policy?
[03:53:58] Speaker 37:
Brian Walsh.
[03:53:59] Commonwealth:
Now, when was that policy purchased? Better question is when did it go into effect?
[03:54:07] Witness:
Sure, the policy date is May 17th, 2021.
[03:54:10] Commonwealth:
And the next document that's within that folder, can you tell us what this document is with the binder clip attached?
[03:54:21] Speaker 35:
This is the application.
[03:54:22] Commonwealth:
And so application, what is that?
[03:54:25] Witness:
This is what is required to secure a life insurance policy.
[03:54:29] Commonwealth:
And so with this secure life insurance policy, do you have to do anything as far as your medical information?
[03:54:35] Witness:
Sure. Can you tell us what it is? Sure. So you'd fill out an application, which really gives the insurance company permission to do the due diligence on you and your health.
[03:54:46] Commonwealth:
And so there's actually a release in there for them to get your medical records. Isn't that correct?
[03:54:50] Witness:
Yes, there is. There's a HIPAA authorization.
[03:54:52] Commonwealth:
Now, sir, I'm going to direct your attention to exhibit 99. and ask if you could take a look at that and open it up to the first doctor.
[03:55:05] Witness:
Okay.
[03:55:06] Commonwealth:
And what is that, sir?
[03:55:07] Witness:
This is a policy brief of the whole life policy for $250,000 on Anna Walsh.
[03:55:13] Commonwealth:
And for Anna Walsh, when did this policy go into effect?
[03:55:17] Witness:
The policy date is June 28th, 2021.
[03:55:21] Commonwealth:
And, sir, regarding that policy, does that also list the beneficiaries? Yes, it does. And should you tell us who the beneficiary is?
[03:55:31] Witness:
I can. It's Brian Welsh.
[03:55:33] Commonwealth:
Now, sir, in addition to that first document you referenced, is there also a similar document within the file with a binder clip for those records?
[03:55:46] Witness:
Yes.
[03:55:47] Commonwealth:
And what is that document, sir?
[03:55:49] Witness:
This is a life application.
[03:55:51] Commonwealth:
And so is that just like the application you just told us about or the other policy?
[03:55:57] Speaker 38:
Yes, it is.
[03:55:58] Commonwealth:
And with that application, is there also a lease of documents to New York Lake from medical providers?
[03:56:03] Speaker 38:
Yes, there is.
[03:56:05] Commonwealth:
Now, was there any difficulty in obtaining Anna Walsh life insurance?
[03:56:10] Speaker 38:
No.
[03:56:13] Commonwealth:
And Your Honor, may we approach about one small issue?
[03:56:17] Defense:
Sure.
[03:56:49] Speaker 02:
.
[03:57:18] UNKNOWN:
.
[03:57:50] Speaker 02:
.
[03:58:06] UNKNOWN:
.
[03:59:02] Speaker 02:
you
[03:59:34] Defense:
the court room for a little bit. I need to do something outside of your hearing. It may turn out that you go straight through to lunch and then I may have you come back before the two o'clock hour. That's going to depend on whether you have food or not. We'll see. So just hold tight. You can be back to the jury room right now.
[03:59:53] Speaker 40:
All rise for the court please.
[04:00:04] UNKNOWN:
Thank you.
[04:00:45] Commonwealth:
So Mr. Stalhaj, I'm just getting you to talk to me.
[04:00:52] Witness:
I'm going to ask you to tell us what it is. Personal health history.
[04:00:54] Commonwealth:
And who is it for?
[04:00:56] Witness:
Anna Walsh.
[04:00:57] Commonwealth:
And sir, how are you familiar with this document?
[04:01:00] Witness:
This is something that my colleague does mostly, fills out on people's health histories. It's part of the application process.
[04:01:09] Commonwealth:
And so if someone doesn't fill it out, what happens to getting life insurance?
[04:01:16] Witness:
They don't get life insurance.
[04:01:18] Commonwealth:
It's electronically submitted to the underwriters for their consideration and for an offer.
[04:01:28] Witness:
Because your health is what determines the overall cost of your insurance and also if you're eligible to receive insurance. She was approved. No, she received a excellent health rating.
[04:02:04] Commonwealth:
How do you know that?
[04:02:10] Witness:
The every policy receives a health rating. Basically, Your Honor, we rate everyone's health on a scale from one to 37. One is as good as you can be. 37 is as poor as you can be and still be accepted. And she received a number one health rating.
[04:02:30] Defense:
And is that in the documents that you're looking at right now?
[04:02:34] Witness:
It's not on this one, no.
[04:02:36] Defense:
Where do you know that from?
[04:02:37] Witness:
It's on the policy itself. It's on the policy brief that was just handed to me a moment ago.
[04:02:42] Defense:
OK.
[04:02:44] Commonwealth:
Sorry for the interruption. Sir, in addition to filling out that document, are there any other requirements for follow up with medical professionals or review of records?
[04:03:00] Witness:
Yes, there's a telephone interview component where they on a recorded line with a representative of the company, they ask them a series of questions, lifestyle questions. Have you ever questions? It's about a half hour long telephone interview that is also part of the underwriting process in addition to a medical requirement where we send out an examiner for a blood and urine sample, vital signs, things of that nature, and then they request a copy of the medical records from the attending physician called an attending physician statement. I'm sorry?
[04:03:43] Commonwealth:
Yes, it was. This is voice signed by Anna Walsh, yes.
[04:04:01] Witness:
It means that the conclusion of the interview that she conducted over the telephone, she consented to an electronic signature. Ross, thank you.
[04:04:22] Commonwealth:
So this form that you were just looking at, do I understand that Anna Walsh supposedly filled this out herself?
[04:04:31] Witness:
I believe it was done through a telephone interview. I wasn't part of that.
[04:04:34] Commonwealth:
OK, so when you say a telephone interview, you mean someone interviewed reportedly Anna Walsh about these questions.
[04:04:42] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[04:04:43] Commonwealth:
Correct. Yes. records don't have any attachment from a medical doctor signing off that she was in, as you say, great health in March of 2021.
[04:05:16] Witness:
It doesn't have any medical records attached to it.
[04:05:19] Commonwealth:
So no medical corroboration to the assertions made portably by Anna Walsh in March of 2021.
[04:05:25] Defense:
Correct.
[04:05:26] Commonwealth:
Your Honor, I'd like to further.
[04:05:27] Defense:
So you said earlier that They give a blood and urine sample. Somebody comes to the house. And then you also said that something about they have to sign a release for their medical records. Yes. And can you tell based on the documentation if that was done in this case?
[04:05:56] Speaker 46:
It was.
[04:05:57] Defense:
And then once you have that release, what happens? How do you access the medical records?
[04:06:04] Witness:
The company does it through a third-party vendor, and they receive a copy of the attending physician statement. We call it an APS.
[04:06:12] Defense:
And where does that go?
[04:06:13] Witness:
It goes to the underwriter.
[04:06:15] Defense:
And is that records that you have?
[04:06:17] Witness:
I don't.
[04:06:21] Defense:
I don't mean do you have them with you now. I mean, do you keep those records?
[04:06:26] Witness:
We're never privileged to that information, Your Honor.
[04:06:28] Defense:
So it all goes to the underwriter? Correct. Different entity than you? Correct. You mentioned earlier in your direct that there's a woman that works with you. I got the phonetic as Nancy McGloom. It might be about 75% correct. Is she the person that you said you didn't do this over the phone with Ana Walsh but that somebody else did?
[04:06:49] Witness:
She's not the person, no, Your Honor.
[04:06:51] Defense:
Is there another person in your office that does that?
[04:06:53] Witness:
No, it's direct from the underwriter from the home office of New York Life. There's a to make sure it's sort of the best information it could be. They do it themselves.
[04:07:05] Defense:
All right. Anything else anybody wants in on after I've asked these additional questions? All right. So I'm not going to allow it in right now on this record. If it becomes relevant on a rebuttal case, depending on what the defense if the defense puts on a case and what they do, in order to get this in, you're gonna need to, well, you'd probably, honestly, you'd be asking to get in something else, which is like her medical records through a doctor and not through this way. But I'm not gonna let that in right now.
[04:07:35] Commonwealth:
Yes, Your Honor. All right. Thank you, Your Honor.
[04:07:38] Defense:
So. All right, bring him back up. Keep working.
[04:08:00] UNKNOWN:
you
[04:08:32] Commonwealth:
Your Honor, would I be permitted to ask the witness in front of the jury about the medical rating?
[04:08:36] Defense:
About the what?
[04:08:37] Commonwealth:
Medical rating.
[04:08:38] Defense:
Yeah, that's on the form, it's already in Evans. You can object, but it would seem to me that that is already on a document that's been admitted.
[04:08:46] Commonwealth:
No question, Judge.
[04:08:48] Defense:
All right.
[04:08:53] Speaker 30:
All rise, jury's entering.
[04:09:18] Speaker 31:
Put it back in session, you may proceed.
[04:09:32] Commonwealth:
And you may proceed. Thank you, Your Honor. Sir, is there a medical rating that's assigned to a person who buys life insurance for New York Life?
[04:09:51] Witness:
Yes.
[04:09:52] Speaker 31:
How is that determined?
[04:09:54] Witness:
It's a combination of the underwriting. So your health rating is determined based on your gender. Your health rating is not determined on your gender. That's an incorrect statement. It's determined on your health and the way they evaluate your health.
[04:10:11] Commonwealth:
So how does New York Life evaluate someone's health when they're buying life insurance?
[04:10:17] Witness:
They use an underwriting scale, everything from your BMI, your body mass index, height, weight, blood pressure, medication you're on, high-risk activities that you might participate in, your job sometimes can even factor into your health rating.
[04:10:37] Speaker 30:
How does New York Life find out this
[04:10:39] Witness:
through underwriting, through the telephone interview, through a copy of your medical records, and through their recorded telephone interview. They request them through a HIPAA authorization that's in the application from the person's primary care physician and any other physicians that they are under the care of.
[04:11:04] Commonwealth:
Yes.
[04:11:09] Witness:
It starts out, the best rating you can receive is called select preferred. And then it goes preferred. And then it goes preferred too. Then it goes nonsmoker. Then it goes nonsmoker, table 1 through 13. Then it goes to standard. or select standard, which is usually a healthy smoker. Then there's standard, which is a smoker. And then there's standard table 1 through 13. And all of those, if you think of it like a ladder, like 1 through 37, every single rung represents a higher risk class. And it subsequently changes the cost of your insurance.
[04:11:52] Commonwealth:
So the healthier you are, the less you have to pay for insurance?
[04:11:54] Witness:
Yes.
[04:11:55] Commonwealth:
And what was Otto Walsh's rating on those
[04:12:00] Witness:
Select preferred.
[04:12:01] Commonwealth:
And what number would that be?
[04:12:04] Witness:
That's the highest level you can receive.
[04:12:06] Commonwealth:
So she was the healthy one?
[04:12:07] Witness:
Correct.
[04:12:09] Commonwealth:
May I have a moment, Your Honor? You may. Oh, in addition, sir, when collecting information, does New York Life, through its underwriting process, get any samples from someone who's applying for life insurance?
[04:12:30] Witness:
Yes. They'll send a professional, I forget what it's called, paraprofessional, something like that, to do a blood draw, a urine sample, and vitals, height, weight, blood pressure.
[04:12:47] Commonwealth:
Can New York, does New York Life give life insurance if that's not performed?
[04:12:53] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[04:12:54] Commonwealth:
Was it done in this case?
[04:12:55] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[04:12:56] Commonwealth:
Nothing further, Your Honor.
[04:12:58] Defense:
Any recross?
[04:13:01] Commonwealth:
I think it's just gross.
[04:13:02] Defense:
Oh, sorry.
[04:13:04] Commonwealth:
Good afternoon.
[04:13:05] Defense:
Thank you.
[04:13:09] Commonwealth:
You were just talking about the health rating. I just want to talk to you a little bit about that, OK? So the health rating, that's a New York life health rating.
[04:13:20] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[04:13:20] Commonwealth:
And so is that like someone in risk assessment and underwriting determines the scale that you just talked about?
[04:13:26] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[04:13:27] Commonwealth:
So it's not a medical professional or a doctor reviewing this information and giving this arbitrary number to someone who's applying for insurance?
[04:13:36] Witness:
I don't know who that person is, so I can't tell you.
[04:13:39] Commonwealth:
You had mentioned that when Ms. Walsh applied for life insurance, part of it is this health assessment, right?
[04:13:48] Witness:
Yes.
[04:13:48] Commonwealth:
And this was in March of 2021? I believe so. I think they're right in front of you. Take your time.
[04:14:36] Witness:
It looks to be February 2nd, 2021.
[04:14:38] Commonwealth:
OK. After February, you said second of 2021, you didn't have any follow-up records, interviews with Anna Walsh about her health?
[04:14:53] UNKNOWN:
No.
[04:14:54] Commonwealth:
You had mentioned that someone goes and draws blood and does a urine test?
[04:14:59] Witness:
Yes. I don't fully understand, but the things that it does push out that are common are as if there's evidence of nicotine, if they're smoking or using nicotine. It'll show if cholesterol levels is usually the types of things they're looking for. They're looking for abnormalities. I don't really quite frankly understand what they're looking for.
[04:15:31] Commonwealth:
And then you said a urine test. What are they looking for in the urine test? Is that drugs and alcohol, legal drugs, I'm assuming, and alcohol? Nicotine. Okay. Is there any type of analysis of the person's pulmonary system, their lungs and their heart capacity?
[04:15:50] UNKNOWN:
I don't know.
[04:15:51] Commonwealth:
You don't know? Is there any type of evaluation of their neurological system?
[04:15:59] Witness:
I don't know.
[04:16:00] Commonwealth:
And the February 2021 date that you're talking about, I think you said that part of this health assessment, this number you give, is based off an interview with the person?
[04:16:13] Witness:
Part of the underwriting is a telephone interview, yes.
[04:16:17] Commonwealth:
Okay, a telephone interview with the person trying to get insurance?
[04:16:19] Witness:
Yes.
[04:16:20] Commonwealth:
Okay. And I think you already said it, but you can't get life insurance if you don't go through this process.
[04:16:28] Witness:
Correct.
[04:16:30] Commonwealth:
And I think you had also said that the healthier you are, the cheaper your premiums can be or the cheaper you have to pay, which makes sense.
[04:16:39] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[04:16:40] Commonwealth:
So it's beneficial to someone when they're applying for life insurance to hopefully be at least reporting or be in the best shape physically and I guess physically, that's the way to say it maybe. Yes. And I think you said that you asked them about if they engage in any high risk activities, right?
[04:17:03] Witness:
That's part of the telephone interview. I don't ask that, but the company does. Yes.
[04:17:07] Commonwealth:
Yes. Okay. So I'm assuming the reason you asked if there's any high risk activity is to see if they live a lifestyle where they're maybe more likely than someone else to get injured or killed. Correct. So bungee jumping is a no for me. Okay, so the only way that you might find out if someone is engaging in high-risk behavior is if they told the underwriter on this telephone interview.
[04:17:33] Speaker 39:
That's one of the ways, yes.
[04:17:35] Commonwealth:
So if someone did engage in arguably high-risk or dangerous behavior and they didn't report it to you, you wouldn't know.
[04:17:43] Speaker 14:
Correct.
[04:17:45] Commonwealth:
You had mentioned that on a Walsh had two different policies. One was a term and one was a whole?
[04:17:52] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[04:17:52] Commonwealth:
Okay. Now, am I correct that it's common for young married couples or people with children to come and get life insurance?
[04:18:01] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[04:18:01] Commonwealth:
Okay. I'm just going to ask you just to lean into that microphone a little bit, because I'm having a hard time.
[04:18:08] UNKNOWN:
Okay, thank you.
[04:18:09] Commonwealth:
You're welcome. So, and when married couples come to get life insurance, So if the husband gets it, it's the wife. If the wife gets it, it's the husband.
[04:18:26] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[04:18:27] Commonwealth:
Okay. And if they have minor children, is it still that the spouse is the beneficiary because they're going to be using that money for the care and protection of the children?
[04:18:37] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[04:18:37] Commonwealth:
Okay. Your company, New York Life, you guys also do financial planning and retirement planning? Like, that's kind of the whole company? Okay. Life insurance, and we'll talk about the difference between whole and term, life insurance is a type of financial planning and thinking about retirement in the future, right? Yes. And so it's something, again, families, married couples, it's common that they come to you for this.
[04:19:06] Speaker 39:
Yes. Okay.
[04:19:07] Commonwealth:
Now, a term life insurance policy, that's something where you pay monthly and if you die, the benefits get paid out.
[04:19:15] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[04:19:16] Commonwealth:
Okay. But is there a way that you can have a term like insurance policy and that can get converted into another type of policy where you can take loans off it or it can grow a cash value?
[04:19:28] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[04:19:29] Commonwealth:
Okay. And so even a term can start, it's something that isn't worth anything unless someone dies and you can turn it into some type of investment or access to finances.
[04:19:39] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[04:19:44] Commonwealth:
Yes. And so I am definitely going to fumble this because numbers is just not my thing, but this is where you can have a whole life insurance policy and you can borrow off of it. Correct. So if I have a whole life or whole life insurance policy and something unexpected happens or an expense comes up, I can actually borrow off this policy. Yes. And am I also correct that if you do borrow off this policy, there's a tax advantage or a tax break. It's like a 401k tax you pay. You explain it to me.
[04:20:22] Witness:
You can borrow the cash value without paying tax on the accumulation value.
[04:20:31] Commonwealth:
And in the whole policy that Anna Walsh had,
[04:20:41] Witness:
the owner of the policy who was Anna.
[04:20:44] Commonwealth:
So even Mr. Walsh, her husband, he couldn't sign and take a loan off that whole policy without her? Correct. Okay. Considering that these policies have some financial value to them, does divorce ever play a role in policies and paying out on a life insurance policy, a whole policy, is divorce something that clients have ever asked you about? That's probably a better question.
[04:21:15] Witness:
Is divorce? I don't understand the question. OK, sure.
[04:21:19] Commonwealth:
So if a whole policy has cash value and people are married, if people are going to get divorced, is there ever a question in any of your clients' minds? Well, hey, I've been paying off Bill's policy for eight years.
[04:21:35] Defense:
Set the foundation.
[04:21:43] Commonwealth:
So you had told us that some of these life insurance policies are an asset. It's a way to build cash, build for retirement, and you can access money from, right? Yes. And if someone, and you might see a whole policy where two people are married.
[04:22:02] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[04:22:03] Commonwealth:
So if one spouse has a whole policy, you told us that they're the only one that can actually sign the paperwork to get assets off of it, right? Correct. OK. So an honorable policy, I'm assuming you have to pay a premium every month.
[04:22:17] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[04:22:19] Commonwealth:
And so have you ever had to talk to your client or prospective client about how divorce could affect who owns access to that policy, or is it a non-issue?
[04:22:32] Defense:
You can answer. Have you ever discussed it with another client, any client?
[04:22:38] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[04:22:43] Commonwealth:
You had mentioned that Ana had a policy. My understanding is, I think you said that you got to Brian Walsh off a lead off the internet.
[04:22:54] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[04:22:55] Commonwealth:
So that means he was looking for insurance and busy I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yes. And am I correct that when Mister Walsh initially contacted you.
[04:23:07] Defense:
He wanted the insurance.
[04:23:52] Commonwealth:
So initially, when you followed up on this lead, Mr. Walsh had applied for health insurance through you.
[04:24:01] Speaker 39:
Insurance.
[04:24:02] Commonwealth:
Excuse me, life insurance. Yes. Yes. OK. And he was rejected. And he was rejected because he had a felony conviction from his federal court case.
[04:24:13] Witness:
No.
[04:24:14] Commonwealth:
Why was he rejected?
[04:24:16] Witness:
He had a pending case.
[04:24:20] Commonwealth:
because he had a pending federal case.
[04:24:21] Witness:
Correct.
[04:24:23] Commonwealth:
And you didn't just stop at that one application. Am I correct that you applied to several other policies or companies to try to get him life insurance? Yes. All right. And I think at one point, did you even reach out to other colleagues for help and how to get him life insurance?
[04:24:39] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[04:24:39] Commonwealth:
And it's at that point where he was consistently being rejected in 2021 that it was an afterthought like, hey, we're going to go with Anna and get her insurance. Objection.
[04:24:51] Defense:
Sustained.
[04:24:54] Commonwealth:
During the time that Mr. Walsh was applying for life insurance, during that time frame, Anna Walsh never applied for life insurance.
[04:25:05] Witness:
I'm not sure.
[04:25:09] Commonwealth:
Well, what do you mean you're not sure? She didn't apply with it through you.
[04:25:13] Witness:
She applied, I don't know when the one search for Brian's life insurance ended and where hers began. I don't know if the two overlapped.
[04:25:25] Commonwealth:
But as you say, her search for life insurance was an afterthought when you were working with this family.
[04:25:32] Defense:
Sustained.
[04:25:32] Commonwealth:
Your Honor, may I be seen at sidebar?
[04:25:34] Defense:
Yes, you may.
[04:27:04] Commonwealth:
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. numerous times applied for life insurance policies and was consistently denied because of his pending federal case, correct?
[04:27:36] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[04:27:37] Commonwealth:
And you're working with the family at this time.
[04:27:40] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[04:27:41] Commonwealth:
And I'm assuming that when you were going through this with Mr. Walsh, actually, he even referred you to other friends and colleagues of this.
[04:27:49] Defense:
Yes. Jackson. I think it's time to go to lunch. Have a nice lunch, sir. Anybody need anything? No, your honor. Have a nice lunch. Thank you.
[04:29:19] Speaker 03:
Thank you.
[04:31:13] UNKNOWN:
Thank you.
[04:31:57] Speaker 47:
somebody up trying to save them.
[04:31:58] Speaker 15:
Well, in the wrong location, I mean, yeah, we do it right. It's not really likely to cause a liver restoration unless you're doing it over the liver. We do it over the chest.
[04:32:08] Witness:
Now the child, though, is harder. Would you do it harder with a child and a grown person CPR? Where's the smaller area? That's all you just do a smaller area. Less, less smaller areas. Well, a bit more difficult, though, to you don't want to get off on that because it can cause problems, correct?
[04:32:24] Speaker 15:
Well, that's why you use like two fingers instead of a whole hand.
[04:32:27] Witness:
just in Europe you keep up with the literature on liver lacerations and that type thing do you not?
[04:32:33] Speaker 15:
As much as I have to keep up with any literature yeah.
[04:32:37] Witness:
You're aware that the liver lacerations from CPR go anywhere from around one percent to eleven percent when it's performed in an emergency situation?
[04:32:45] Speaker 15:
There are small instances of it I believe it's I believe it's more unlikely on the left side of the liver when it occurs but if it's gone off there a small chance of that.
[04:33:03] Witness:
Now. And I'm not accusing you of necessary doing anything wrong but just in reality that could occur correct.
[04:33:11] Speaker 15:
It's possible but in this case I would say I would say very unlikely.
[04:33:16] Witness:
Now you did say that what time you were not the only one given the CPR right. right but correct. So you're doing some things when someone else is performing you you can't watch everything while you're you're doing all the other stuff right.
[04:33:30] Speaker 15:
Within the room I'm watching and I'm in the room watching it all. Now. And that was a big laceration it wasn't a small one so that's another reason why I think it would be unlikely that was caused by CPR, but possible and unlikely.
[04:33:51] Witness:
Now you were told about the child possibly, or at least there's been some conversations about the child could have possibly fallen off a bed, correct? Yes. Now did anybody tell you that the particular bed that the child fell from was 40 inches high? I had heard that. So that's a fairly high bed, is it not? Intermediate, yeah. And then did anyone tell you that the flooring there was a hard concrete tile, very hard? I don't remember hearing that. Well, if you would assume for a moment that the flooring was also very hard, would you agree with me if a child fell off the bed from 40 inches onto a very hard concrete floor that it could cause rather significant injuries? It could. And I understand, I mean, one thing I do want to, I guess, address is you really don't know what happened to the kid as far as who did anything. You just know the injuries you saw, correct? That's correct. And you can make some conclusions or assumptions based on your medical knowledge of what you think may have caused it to a degree, but as far as the person or persons that caused it, you have no idea as you sit here do.
[04:35:00] Speaker 15:
No idea. I was not there when it happened.
[04:35:04] Witness:
Um, And you've talked about the trauma that occurred and that the trauma of say the fracture in the neck area, the back of the neck, that trauma you would say could occur from a rather significant blow, correct? Yes. Now the blow could be from, and it wasn't in this case of course, but it could be from automobile wreck, correct? Oh, it could be, yeah. And it could be from somebody striking the child in some way, correct? Yes. And of course, it could be from a traumatic fall of some sort if it hit the right way, correct? Yeah. Now, in addition to that, is it possible sometimes for the injury you saw on the neck For someone to have an injury to that neck, you've testified already there was a fracture in that area.
[04:35:54] Speaker 15:
OK, I'm sorry. Let's clarify. You're saying neck. You mean the actual neck or the back of the skull?
[04:36:00] Witness:
I'm playing in the area you talked about, the fracture.
[04:36:03] Speaker 15:
Yeah, that's going to be the back of the skull, the occipital area, so not the neck.
[04:36:07] Witness:
A little up higher than that. Yeah. That fracture, I apologize for that. But the fracture that occurred in that area, is it possible or could it happen? Where someone has had an accident or fallen and they partially cracked their ear there, not to the extent it was when you examined the child, but had a partial fracture and then had a second thing that occurred that broke it all the way.
[04:36:35] Speaker 15:
It's possible, but they would have been having issues even from the first event, but it's possible, but it likely all occurred at once, but that is possible.
[04:36:44] Witness:
I mean it's sort of like if I fall down and crack my wrist and you tell me to be careful for the next few weeks because we don't want to have any more problems and I don't listen and I go out and play basketball and reach down to catch myself, I could break my wrist completely, correct?
[04:37:01] Speaker 15:
Yeah, but usually a break is through and through so it goes in from one end of the bone and comes out the other end. We don't typically see it only going partially through the bone.
[04:37:09] Witness:
But sometimes you do have
[04:37:12] Speaker 14:
All right, the cross-examination from this defense attorney with this doctor. We'll get a break now and we'll head back to this Trojan courtroom for more of this back and forth between the defense and the doctor.
[04:37:28] Speaker 12:
The disappearance of Anna Walsh.
[04:37:31] Speaker 28:
Her husband now charged with her murder. All eyes on this accused killer. The disappearance of Anna Walsh murder trial. Live coverage today on Court TV. Tonight on Closing Arguments, he admitted to lying to police. But will this jury believe he murdered his wife? We're unpacking key testimony in the case against Brian Walsh.
[04:37:53] Speaker 23:
Closing Arguments, tonight at 8, 7 Central, only on Court TV.
[04:41:57] Speaker 01:
Who is Romeo Angelis? This is my son. She gave him something I'm doing, like a Frito Doritos. It's Frito, like the barbecue, twisted chips. And he was sitting there eating them. She had them in her hands. It's like, he's limp. I don't know. I don't know what happened, so I threw the pizza, dropped it, and grabbed him and took off.
[04:42:33] Speaker 14:
18-month-old Jackson JD Drew was rushed to the hospital back in January of 2024 from his father. You see the surveillance video of him. He had gone out to get a pizza, came back. Something was wrong with his son, so he took him to the hospital. He was unresponsive. He was in his girlfriend's dorm, and later, the boy was pronounced dead.
[04:42:54] Speaker 25:
Prosecutors say the child was fine before the father left but after just 35 minutes alone with the defendant Trinity Pogue He was covered in bruises and had suffered severe head and Abdominal trauma the defense is pointing the finger back at the boyfriend saying that Julian Jay Williams Said that the child fell out of bed while Williams was passed out drunk.
[04:43:15] Speaker 14:
It is There's no clear answer exactly what happened, but this doctor on the witness stand right now is the ER doc. He's on cross-examination. He's talking about how they treated and what he saw. With JD, let's go back in, pick up the crossword we left off.
[04:43:31] Witness:
But sometimes you do have partial fracture, right?
[04:43:36] Speaker 15:
Not very often. Usually it's through and through the call. You can have some stress injuries, but usually your fracture goes through and through.
[04:43:44] Witness:
Now, in your practice, I assume that you are required to have continuing education of some sort as a medical doctor. And you keep up with that, I guess, right? Yes. And in addition to that, just like me in the legal profession, there's all types of periodicals and things like that that we read and keep us kind of up to date. Do you do the same thing?
[04:44:08] Speaker 15:
I go to medical meetings and get my information through medical meetings and some articles, but I don't really read a lot of periodicals. People choose different ways to get their information.
[04:44:18] Witness:
But you are aware they exist, such as, say, the New England Journal of Medicine. You're aware of that, correct? Yes. Would you agree that that's a learned journal that has treatises in it that talk about medical issues? It does. And one that would be somewhat dependable?
[04:44:35] Speaker 15:
Most of the time.
[04:44:37] Witness:
I mean, I realize anybody can have an idea about what they've written, and you may not necessarily agree with it.
[04:44:44] Speaker 15:
So what the New England Journal does is they publish articles, and they publish somewhat research. So it shows what the research showed. And that's a research journal. It's not always per se the standard of care, but it's research.
[04:45:01] Witness:
Let me ask you this. This isn't about the, uh, that was just an example. I don't have anything from that particular journal, but I was just trying to ask a little bit about that. But, um, would you agree with me that research shows that the number one accidental cause of death for Children one and under is from falls? Sure. So there's no question about that, right? I agree. That's that standard stuff that we know. And, uh, In addition to that, we know that because the child is in some ways more fragile than a grown person, that a fall for a child can be from a lesser height and cause damage to that child than it might to an adult, correct? Possibly. And you've seen research and literature that at times where a child has fallen from what would seem to be not a particularly a little higher and have minor injuries. Likewise so yes I mean what we'd all agree I mean I've got two grown children now twenty one and twenty two but- when they were young they might fall from. Fairly high place and you go oh my gosh run on and dust them off and be fine right.
[04:46:18] Speaker 15:
Yeah that that's the children's more likely to break them. For lack of a better term rubbery then solid so they're less likely to break I mean they do break but usually it takes a little more force to break them because they're more pliable. So what what an adult is not quite as pliable or or for like rubbery so on. A lot of times that they tend to spring more things instead of break them and adults
[04:46:50] Witness:
Have you heard of a view are you aware of the Department of neurosurgery Georgia and George Washington University Medical Center in Washington DC. I mean, I know it exists. I mean, does it have a reasonable reputation for being able to perform things that involve neurosurgery and that I think you know, I can't speak to that.
[04:47:10] Speaker 15:
I mean, I would I don't know. I mean, I don't I don't keep up with them.
[04:47:13] Witness:
Do you know, Dr. Oh, my Oh, M. M. A. Y. A. No, you've never heard of him. No. Uh, if he had published an article in the British Journal of Neurosurgery, would you consider that to be a reliable source that to look at and try to learn and then things? I can't.
[04:47:31] Speaker 15:
I don't know the guy. I mean, I don't know him. I don't know how to answer that because I don't know the fella.
[04:47:37] Witness:
Let me ask you this, have you ever heard of Dr. Mary E. Case? I don't believe so. Have you ever looked at brain pathology, another journal that's a- I do not know, no brain pathology journal. Have you ever seen any of your literature, though, where a young child under the age of three may have fallen from only two or three feet and then had traumatic injury from time to time? I have heard of such cases. So you acknowledge they do exist, correct? They do exist. Now they're outliers as far as they're not the common ground.
[04:48:12] Speaker 15:
Right, because I've seen kids fall from four feet that are younger and just have bruising and no further damage.
[04:48:19] Witness:
You have, but you know they could fall from four feet and have significant damage, correct?
[04:48:24] Speaker 15:
They could have more. I don't know. I don't know how to define significant, but could be worse.
[04:48:29] Witness:
And of course I understand that's not. Odds are not what you normally expect, but you would agree with me no matter what odds are that you're aware that, as an example, we always say just in general talking that the chance of that happening is greater than I get struck by lightning. You ever heard somebody say that? Oh yeah. And we all know that the odds of someone being struck by lightning are pretty far-fetched, correct? Correct. Same time, though, we know that several hundred people a year get struck by lightning, don't they? Yes. You may have had a patient or two struck by lightning yourself. I don't know. Have you ever had one?
[04:49:05] Speaker 14:
One.
[04:49:05] Witness:
So you've had one. So even though the odds are great, I mean, when I say odds, one in a million or more, right? Oh, definitely. And we know that, well, as an example, if you play a mega million, the odds are one in 269 million, but we recently had a guy from Newton to win the lottery in the mega million, didn't we? Didn't know that. But you do know that if you win the lottery, you beat the odds pretty big. Oh, without a doubt. But it still happened, didn't it?
[04:49:36] Speaker 15:
Right.
[04:49:39] Witness:
Now, I want to ask you a few more questions about what all you observed and that type of thing. Just a moment, excuse me. You've given some estimations of some timeframes you believe that when this injury occurred and then symptoms and the symptoms that you saw could have happened, correct? Correct. Because those are estimations based just upon your general knowledge of medicine, correct? Pretty much so. And I mean, I practice law and you practice medicine, correct? Yes. And there's a reason they call both of them practicing, because we're always learning and trying to determine new things, correct?
[04:50:38] Speaker 15:
Yes.
[04:50:38] Witness:
And because we, even though we may be, to some extent, very knowledgeable on the subject matter, we still can't give you firm answers always. Sometimes there's some room on the outside for each one as well, correct? Sometimes there's a range, yes. And you've got a range, but it still could be somewhat different in some situations if you maybe don't know all the facts, correct?
[04:51:04] Speaker 15:
Perceivably, yes. I mean, there's a range on the
[04:51:08] Speaker 14:
All right, pretty good back and forth. The cross-examination, in my opinion, fairly effective. Let's bring in somebody who knows what effective is all about. In Denver, there he is, criminal defense attorney Jeffrey Wolf. Good to see you, sir. Tough case. When you have a victim who is 18 months old, jurors are looking to do their job and find justice for this child. Your thoughts in terms of this, not just this cross, but the case overall.
[04:51:39] Commonwealth:
Yeah, I mean, it is an extremely tough case when you're talking about an 18 month old victim in a case. And this lawyer is doing an exceptional job of remaining relatable. He's remaining affable. He is keeping a good sense of humor while not being too flippant about the situation. so that he's remaining likable to the jury. What I always try to explain to clients and to explain to their family members is that trials are essentially, they're sales meetings with a jury. And you're gonna buy from the person that you trust and the person that you like. And so you have to remain likable to the jury. You can't just go in there with a ball peen hammer and smash everybody in the side of the head. You gotta make them believe you, right? That's what we always say here in Denver is believe, right? And so, That's what you got to do. And that's what he's doing. He's using that country charm down there in Georgia, where he is remaining likable. He's cross-examining a doctor who he thinks didn't do his job, but he's not going in there and just yelling at him. He's remaining likable. He's remaining personable. And he is getting along with him. And I think that that is a technique that is really important, the law of escalating punishment. The doctor's not fighting him, so he's not fighting.
[04:52:53] Speaker 25:
you getting that from the cross that the way his approaches with the questioning is that he feels the doctor isn't doing the job or is it he's just kind of coming out with different ways that this could have happened. Maybe we didn't look at that. I mean, yeah, what are you thinking about that?
[04:53:11] Commonwealth:
Well, we know the theory of the case, right? They've got this diaper that has blood in it that they know wasn't tested. So we know that they don't agree with this doctor's theory of what happened here, and we know they think there are steps that were missed, and that they think that they jumped to a conclusion here in the way that they made this finding. We know where they're going and what they're going to argue later, but that doesn't mean you have to yell at this doctor, because this doctor didn't point the finger at their client. And so he is letting this doctor give good information to this jury by not being a jerk to the doctor.
[04:53:44] Speaker 14:
Absolutely. It's a treat to watch, too, because you did the back and forth. You're learning things. And to your point, very civil. Let's get a break. When we come back, we're going to turn our attention to Massachusetts. We have two great trials going on right now. We're gonna check in with our Matt Johnson. He's up there in Dedham, Massachusetts Give us a full update on what has transpired today, then we'll head into that courtroom. Stay with us
[04:58:11] Speaker 25:
Now let's head back to Dedham, Massachusetts, where Def. Brian Walsh is standing trial on charges that he murdered his wife, Anna.
[04:58:28] Speaker 14:
Prosecutors say that Walsh killed Anna back in 2023, then spent several days trying to conceal the crime before she was ultimately reported missing by her employer. Her body has never been found. Let's head out to the courthouse. That's where we find our Matt Johnson.
[04:58:46] Speaker 25:
Hey there, Matt. Nice to see you. Talk to us about the discussion about Anna Walsh having an affair today. That was discussed. Tell us some more about that.
[04:58:56] Speaker 06:
Yeah, that was with the judge that was outside the presence of the jury, but it's going to be a big, big deal for this trial because prosecutors want to say that that's part of the motive for the murder that Anna Walsh was concealing an affair outside of the jury's presence today. The judge was talking about she's ready to make an instruction on consciousness of guilt. Let's take a listen.
[04:59:18] Defense:
I'm going to put it back on the Commonwealth today to pair that back to what you think is relevant and state of mind evidence. There's one of two reasonable inferences that could be drawn from those statements of the defendant. One is that he knew it because he observed her. texting the message in the kitchen or in the family room wherever they were when she sent that message. The other inference is that he knew it also because he was, as he said, I'm getting her messages.
[04:59:56] Speaker 06:
So the judge is anticipating what we are and you at home. We are waiting for more in front of this jury about the affair, the love affair and possibly divorce as motive for the murder behind all of this. Well, the defense, they're owning it and they're just saying simply that Brian Walsh knew about an affair and he didn't really care. Here's what was said during openings.
[05:00:18] Speaker 41:
She did not tell her closest friends, her confidants. She hid the affair. William Baskin will testify that Anna Walsh told him she would be devastated if Brian ever learned about the affair. And the evidence will establish she is a beautiful woman. And it was not unusual for her to comment to Brian. I had some men look at me today. And when she told him that she had a crush on William Fastow. He didn't upset Brian. He trusted her. You will hear evidence from Melissa Kirby that Anna Walsh only heard her. I wish he would be jealous.
[05:01:04] Speaker 06:
Okay, so the alleged lover in all of this, we're hearing his name brought up outside of the jury's presence in front of the jury during opening statements. He is definitely going to be someone to watch for, maybe being called to the stand by weeks in. Ted Kellett.
[05:01:21] Speaker 14:
All right, Matt, we have been popping back and forth between Walsh and Georgia at the Treaty of Hope cases. What has stood out to you the most from testimony today?
[05:01:33] Speaker 06:
And testimony from a lot of witnesses, Ted. This is the first day that we're really working at a fast pace with this moving trial now. We're on day three and already something like five witnesses called to the stand, a lot of law enforcement and also people with airlines. Making sure that this jury knows that Ana Walsh didn't board any flights, she missed a flight, she didn't book any travel with Uber or Lyft. And then we were also hearing about the false police report with investigators in those initial days when Brian Walsh said his wife was missing. Take a listen.
[05:02:08] Speaker 04:
He contacted her workplace and they had not heard from her and he had not heard from her in a few days.
[05:02:15] Commonwealth:
What did he tell you about the last time that he had seen her?
[05:02:22] Speaker 04:
It was on January 1st, 2023.
[05:02:26] Commonwealth:
What if anything else did he tell you?
[05:02:29] Speaker 04:
That it was the morning between 6 a.m. and 7 a.m. before she took a flight back to Washington, D.C. for work.
[05:02:39] Speaker 06:
Clearly a lie and prosecutors will point out more consciousness of guilt because we already know Brian Walsh on the eve of this trial pled guilty to lying to investigators and now his defense is that he found his wife dead from natural causes.
[05:02:56] Speaker 25:
Matt, talk about this afternoon. What do you expect this afternoon as testimony continues? Talk to us about that.
[05:03:02] Speaker 06:
It's getting good, and this is something definitely to watch for. In regards to Anna Walsh's health, remember the defense, their whole defense strategy right now is that Brian Walsh discovered his wife dead after he was cleaning in the kitchen, after entertaining on New Year's Eve, and he panicked and didn't know what to do. Well, now we are hearing from the health insurance company and a broker that's taken the stand that she was in perfect health according to their records and according to their due diligence. So this is something definitely to watch for and this is something where we see this defendant looking very nervous in front of the jury at that defense table.
[05:03:44] Speaker 14:
Yeah, yeah, all right. Matt, thank you. Matt will be with us throughout the day giving us updates. We'll be going back and forth. We're going to get you into court for the next state witness here that we sort of left off earlier there at the lunch break in real time. But this is an insurance broker who says that Anna Walsh, to Matt's point, was in perfect health.
[05:04:07] Witness:
Could you state your name and spell your last name for the record? Sure, it's Mark Selvaji. It's S-E-L-V-A-G-G-I.
[05:04:13] Commonwealth:
And sir, what do you do for a living? I sell life insurance. And are you affiliated with any life insurance company? Yes. Which one? New York Life. How long have you been selling life insurance? A little over 10 years. And in that 10 years, have you always been affiliated with New York Life? Yes. Now, sir, who is Nancy McLoone? She's a colleague of mine.
[05:04:34] Witness:
And what is her responsibilities within your office? She fills out our applications, does our underwriting requirements, traffics the cases through underwriting. And where is your office located? 1050 Hangham Street, Rockland, Mass.
[05:04:48] Commonwealth:
And besides Ms. McLoone, who else is in the office? that's a lot of work.
[05:04:51] Witness:
Half a dozen other agents okay and what are your responsibilities in the office- speak with clients
[05:05:01] Commonwealth:
So there's some clients I'd like to ask you about are Brian and Anna Walsh.
[05:05:07] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[05:05:08] Commonwealth:
Are you familiar with Anna Walsh? Yes. How did you become familiar with Anna Walsh?
[05:05:12] Witness:
I was introduced to her through Brian. OK. And how did you become familiar with Brian Walsh? Brian came to me as a client that was a lead that was solicited. And I reached out to him. It was a local address and asked him. He was looking for life insurance. When did this occur? I believe in July of twenty twenty one. And when did you get introduced to on a watch. I don't remember specifically it was during covid so it might have been happenstance during a zoom conversation okay.
[05:05:50] Commonwealth:
And were you ever able to sell Anna Walsh any insurance policies?
[05:05:54] Witness:
Yes.
[05:05:55] Commonwealth:
What did you sell her for insurance policies?
[05:05:57] Witness:
I sold her two life insurance policies.
[05:06:00] Commonwealth:
Okay, so let's talk about the two life insurance policies.
[05:06:06] Witness:
Sir, what were you able to sell her as far as life insurance policies? I was able to sell her a term policy and a whole life policy. Okay. What is a term life insurance policy? Term life insurance is a type of life insurance product that is good for a preset amount of time. It was approximately a 20 year or was a 20 year term product that was for a million dollars. And now that was for a million dollars. What was the other policy? I sold her a whole life policy. That was for $250,000. Can you tell us what is the difference between a whole life policy and a term policy? Sure. A term policy is renting a block of insurance for a pre-agreed upon amount of time. It could be anywhere from a year to as long as 30 years. And if you don't pass away during that duration, the insurance company, the contract ends the insurance company- doesn't pay anything out- a whole life policy. Kind of like the name implies last year whole life and unfortunately all of us. Someday will pass and holy policies pay out a hundred percent of the time. They cost more- they can be paid up. during your working years and have it last the rest of your life. But you also have the opportunity to access all the cash value that the policy accumulates and can use it as a deferred savings vehicle.
[05:07:32] Commonwealth:
And your honor, at this point in time, I would like to offer two policies and the attachments that were included with them from New York Life in the names of Anna Walsh. They are Manila folders. They are policies ending in 8840 and 5836.
[05:07:54] Speaker 21:
No objection, Your Honor.
[05:07:58] Defense:
The New York Life policy ending in 8840 is now marked in evidence.
[05:08:05] Speaker 25:
We're gonna get a break, but come back more of the Walsh trial and it gets a little more interesting.
[05:08:10] Speaker 28:
We'll have that for you when we come back. Tonight on Closing Arguments, he admitted to lying to police, but will this jury believe he murdered his wife?
[05:08:36] Speaker 23:
We're unpacking key testimony in the case against Brian Walsh.
[05:12:17] UNKNOWN:
you
[05:12:28] Speaker 14:
We'll head back to court. Just a minute. First quick update on the Florida were convicted murderer. Sarah Boone has written a letter handwritten emotion. She was up.
[05:12:36] Speaker 25:
She was always writing a lot of letters to the judge. And you did see on court TV when Boone was found guilty of murdering her boyfriend, Jorge Torres Jr. She's currently serving a life sentence for his death. Torres died after being zipped into the suitcase and beaten during a game of hide and seek back in February of 2020.
[05:12:54] Speaker 14:
What a case that was. In the newly released court documents, Booth's written motion says due to her indigent status, the court appointed an appellate attorney to represent her during the appeals process where she is still awaiting to understand whom her present attorney is and the status of. No information has been provided, she says.
[05:13:16] Speaker 25:
Frustrated okay, so that's that's it She said she goes on or she goes on to say since her sentencing and ongoing a full year since being transported to DOC she has not been properly and fairly included in receiving copies of general correspondence the order filed in the case as the motion is stricken as a nullity because Boone is represented by her attorney guy by the name of David meldano.
[05:13:40] Speaker 14:
He's a her 13th attorney.
[05:13:43] Speaker 25:
She went through a lot of attorneys. She did. She went through a lot of them. We're going to continue to follow this and bring you updates. So always interesting developments from Sarah Boone.
[05:13:53] Speaker 14:
For now, back to Dedham, back to Brian Walsh. We'll pick it up where we left off.
[05:14:02] Defense:
This is 98. The policy, New York Life policy ending 5836 is now in the evidence as exhibit 99.
[05:14:14] Commonwealth:
thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank
[05:14:40] Witness:
the first page of the term policy.
[05:14:41] Commonwealth:
For honor okay it doesn't have for honor does it list the amount of the term policy sure in this it lists the face amount of a million dollars. And on the fourth page. Is it does it
[05:15:09] Speaker 37:
twenty twenty one. Yes it does.
[05:15:11] Commonwealth:
Who is the beneficiary of that falls. Brian Welsh now- when was that policy purchase. For the better questions when you go into effect.
[05:15:22] Witness:
Sure the policy date is- may seventeenth twenty twenty one.
[05:15:26] Commonwealth:
And the next document that's within that folder. Can you tell us what this And so application, what is that?
[05:15:41] Witness:
This is what is required to secure a life insurance policy.
[05:15:45] Commonwealth:
And so with your life insurance policy, do you have to do anything as far as your medical information?
[05:15:51] Witness:
Sure. Is that what it is? Sure. So you'd fill out a application which really gives the insurance company permission to do the due diligence on you and your health.
[05:16:02] Commonwealth:
And so there's actually a release in there for them to get your medical records. Isn't that correct?
[05:16:05] Witness:
Yes, there is. There's a HIPAA authorization.
[05:16:08] Commonwealth:
that. Okay now sorry I'm going to direct your attention to exhibit ninety nine. And asking you take a look at that and open up the first up.
[05:16:21] Witness:
Okay and what is that sir this is a policy brief of the whole life policy for two hundred fifty thousand dollars on animals and for on walls- when did this
[05:16:37] Commonwealth:
question. Okay. And sir regarding that policy does that also listen to beneficiaries.
[05:16:43] Witness:
Yes it does.
[05:16:43] Commonwealth:
And should you tell us who the beneficiary I can it's Brian Welsh. Now sir in addition to that first document you reference is there also a similar document within the file the binder clip- the- yes it is. Yes there is. Yeah was there any difficulty in obtaining on a wash life insurance no.
[05:17:28] Speaker 14:
All right life insurance on the stand- the expert there. Jeffrey wolf watching along with us
[05:17:38] Commonwealth:
Well, the defense is going to have some problems here because they are really trying to say that she died unexpectedly and suddenly. But this life insurance policy serves two purposes for the state. Number one, it shows that she's in good health because there were no problems getting her a life insurance policy. And you have to go through a full workup when you get a life insurance policy that's going to sit right there in that exhibit for the jury to see. And number two, he's the beneficiary of her life insurance policy. So that's another motive along with the affair. This case is really, I think, going to turn on all of those Google search terms that we saw brought into the trial yesterday. That is the most damning evidence in this case, along with all the physical evidence of cleaning up the house that's coming in as well. But the Google search terms are just horrific in this case, and they've been horrific since this case first broke in the news reporting. You just can't tell people enough that what you do on your computer lives forever. And, you know, obviously don't commit crimes, don't kill your spouse, but what you do on your computer lives forever. And these Google search terms are impossible to run from for this guy.
[05:18:47] Speaker 25:
They are. And every single person that we've talked with, we've talked about it. It's just really hard to work around the Google searches.
[05:18:54] Speaker 14:
Yeah, it's it's what is in his mind and he's writing it down and he's like And then she gets dismembered Jeffrey as always. Thank you. Appreciate it We'll get a break when we come back more from this insurance broker talking about the health of a very healthy woman And yet the defense wants everybody to believe she just ended up dying for no reason We'll be back
[05:20:46] UNKNOWN:
you . . you . . . . . . . Thank you. . . . .
[05:30:04] Speaker 00:
You are unmuted.
[05:30:11] UNKNOWN:
Thank you.
[05:30:26] Speaker 31:
Court is back in session. You may be seated.
[05:30:34] Defense:
I understand, sir, you're still under oath.
[05:30:46] Speaker 39:
Hello.
[05:30:48] Commonwealth:
So before I was talking again about how you show policies to individuals When you're selling to a young married couple, both parties might have life insurance policies.
[05:31:05] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[05:31:05] Commonwealth:
And each of them would be the other one's beneficiary? Yes. OK. And when people have kids, then that's another consideration because they want to make sure if something happens to one parent, the other parent and the children are OK.
[05:31:18] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[05:31:19] Commonwealth:
So in your role as a life insurance agent, would you categorize life insurance policies as something that's an investment for the whole family?
[05:31:28] Speaker 39:
Sometimes.
[05:31:31] Commonwealth:
This particular case, am I correct that all three children had whole life insurance policies as well? Yes. And Anna Walsh was the beneficiary of those.
[05:31:40] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[05:31:41] Commonwealth:
So she would have been the only one who could have taken out a loan against any of those policies.
[05:31:47] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[05:31:47] Commonwealth:
Okay. I was asking you before about how Mr. Walsh had been denied several times for health insurance.
[05:31:56] Witness:
Life insurance.
[05:31:56] Commonwealth:
Life insurance. Yes, yeah. It's okay. You had mentioned that he or Brian Walsh that I guess requested life insurance online and you picked it up as a lead and you reached out to him.
[05:32:10] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[05:32:10] Commonwealth:
And you began applying for life insurance policies for him.
[05:32:14] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[05:32:15] Commonwealth:
When you began applying for life insurance policies for Brian Walsh, Anna Walsh did not apply for any life insurance policies.
[05:32:24] UNKNOWN:
Correct.
[05:32:25] Commonwealth:
At some point, Anna Walsh did apply for life insurance policy, and that was after Mr. Walsh consistently was denied because of his open federal case.
[05:32:34] Speaker 46:
Correct.
[05:32:36] Commonwealth:
How did it come about that Anna Walsh would apply for life insurance?
[05:32:42] Witness:
I don't remember the conversation. It probably was my recommendation.
[05:32:46] Commonwealth:
So it was probably your recommendation that Anna applied because Mr. Walsh was getting denied.
[05:32:51] Witness:
Correct.
[05:32:52] Commonwealth:
Okay. Is it customary once you sell a policy, I don't know if that's the right term, that you might stay in touch with your clients if they ever have questions in the future about their policies or payouts or any beneficiary questions?
[05:33:05] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[05:33:06] Commonwealth:
So people can email you or call you and say, hey, I have a question about this policy, right?
[05:33:11] Speaker 39:
Yes.
[05:33:13] Commonwealth:
and the children were insured in February of 2021. At no point did Mr. Walsh ever email or call you and say, hey, how do I? I'm just being this lady.
[05:33:25] Speaker 32:
No, I apologize.
[05:33:27] Commonwealth:
At no point did Mr. Walsh ever contact you to ask you about getting paid out on any of Hanna Walsh's life insurance policies.
[05:33:35] Defense:
Correct. Overruled. He can answer that question.
[05:33:38] Commonwealth:
And at no point did Mr. Walsh ever contact you and ask you about taking out any loans or how to take out loans on any of the children's life insurance policies or on the Walsh's life insurance policies.
[05:33:49] Commonwealth:
Objection. Overruled. Correct. Redirect. No, Your Honor. Commonwealth's content.
[05:33:58] Defense:
The witness may step down. Thank you, sir.
[05:34:00] Commonwealth:
Thank you.
[05:34:10] Defense:
And the Commonwealth may call its next witness.
[05:34:12] Commonwealth:
The Commonwealth would call Davis Gould.
[05:34:56] Defense:
Oh, sorry. You may proceed.
[05:34:58] Commonwealth:
Thank you, Your Honor. Sir, could you state your name?
[05:35:01] Speaker 07:
My name is Davis Schooled. First name is spelled D-A-V-I-S. Where do you work, sir? I work at the Massachusetts State Police Crime Laboratory in the Criminalistics and Crime Scene Response Unit.
[05:35:11] Defense:
All right, sir. Lean right into that microphone loud, clear voice.
[05:35:16] Commonwealth:
Thank you. So, sir, what is your role at the State Police Crime Lab?
[05:35:22] Speaker 07:
I'm currently a forensic scientist 2 assigned to the criminalistics unit where I perform lab work for biological analysis on evidence submitted to the laboratory. And I'm a forensic scientist 2 in the crime scene response unit. And I respond to crime scenes when called upon to assist with investigations. How long have you been with the crime lab? I've been with the crime laboratory for a little over 10 years.
[05:35:42] Commonwealth:
And can you give us your educational background?
[05:35:45] Speaker 07:
Yes, I have a Bachelor of Science degree from West Virginia University with a major of Forensic and Investigative Science and a minor in Biology.
[05:35:53] Commonwealth:
And can you detail your history with the crime lab for us?
[05:35:57] Speaker 07:
I first started working at the crime laboratory in 2015 with the CODIS collection and investigative unit. I was a lab technician. I was at that position for approximately a year and a half until a position opened up in the criminalistics unit where I joined as a forensic scientist one. There was about a one year long training period where I went through various modules of training and upon that completion I was then promoted to forensic scientist two, which is when I began working on cases.
[05:36:22] Commonwealth:
And you said the CODIS unit, what is that sir?
[05:36:24] Speaker 07:
The CODIS unit is a unit at the State Police Crime Laboratory responsible for collecting DNA standards from individuals who are required by Massachusetts general law to supply standards to the state database.
[05:36:35] Commonwealth:
Now, sir, you've said about, I think you kind of briefly told us that you work for two units and the difference, but if you could just help us figure this out. What's the difference between the criminal logistics unit and the crime scene response unit?
[05:36:46] Speaker 07:
Sure, so the criminalistics unit exclusively works in the laboratory. We get cases assigned to us by supervisors and we then perform the necessary biological analysis on those cases based on the information provided to us. The crime scene response unit, everyone in the criminalistics unit is also in the crime scene response unit. That unit performs the same biological analysis and trace collections as well. However, we respond to the physical crime scenes when called upon to collect evidence to perform testing and then write reports.
[05:37:16] Commonwealth:
Are you familiar with competency tests?
[05:37:18] Speaker 07:
Yes, I am.
[05:37:19] Commonwealth:
Can you tell us what competency tests are?
[05:37:21] Speaker 07:
A competency test is a final test that is conducted at the end of training. In the criminalistics unit, I went through a training period where there were separate modules where each module is a particular discipline of forensic science. So blood testing, other bodily fluids, trace analysis, et cetera. And then upon completing each of those modules, there is a final exam at the end called a competency test of which I passed prior to working on any cases at the laboratory.
[05:37:47] Commonwealth:
So I think you might have answered my question, but you passed your competency test?
[05:37:50] Speaker 07:
Yes, I did.
[05:37:51] Commonwealth:
Now, are you familiar with what's a proficiency test?
[05:37:54] Speaker 07:
I am, yes.
[05:37:55] Commonwealth:
Can you tell us what a proficiency test is opposed to a competency test?
[05:37:58] Speaker 07:
The main difference is that a proficiency test is performed periodically in each discipline. So, for example, each year I take two proficiency tests in the biological screening field, I take one trace proficiency test as well, and that's administered through an exterior company that will send us a test to perform, and I'll perform the necessary test in that discipline and then write a report on my findings.
[05:38:22] Commonwealth:
And sir, have you ever testified giving your opinion concerning evidence collection or forensic analysis of evidence?
[05:38:30] Speaker 07:
Yes, I have.
[05:38:31] Commonwealth:
In the crime lab, is it accredited? Yes, it is. What does it mean to be an accredited crime lab?
[05:38:36] Speaker 07:
Accreditation is a voluntary process that the laboratory goes through. An outside agency looks at the standards and procedures that we follow, which are guidelines set by the greater scientific community and forensic community. There is a certificate that is given every five years that reasserts that we're accredited and adhering to the standards set forth by that agency.
[05:38:58] Commonwealth:
I would like to ask some questions about January 9th, 2023. Were you working that day?
[05:39:05] Speaker 08:
Yes, I was.
[05:39:06] Commonwealth:
And at about 2.35 that afternoon, where did you report to?
[05:39:11] Speaker 07:
I reported to the Cohasset Police Department at approximately 2.35.
[05:39:16] Commonwealth:
And why were you at the Cohasset Police Department?
[05:39:19] Speaker 07:
I was requested to process a vehicle involved in an incident in Cohasset.
[05:39:24] Commonwealth:
And was anyone else with you to process this vehicle?
[05:39:28] Speaker 07:
Yes, there was. Who? I had a trainee with me at the time from the laboratory. He was going through the training period to become a crime scene responder. There were also members of the crime scene services section to take photographs as well as members of the state police detective unit.
[05:39:43] Commonwealth:
Your Honor, at this point in my examination, as I start questioning Mr. Gould, I'm going to be referring to a series of pre-marked exhibits that are photographs, starting at number 100 going to 128.
[05:40:01] Defense:
When you say they're pre-marked, are they pre-marked and agreed to by the other side? Correct, Your Honor. All right. So when you offer them, identify what they are so there's a complete record of them, but at this time they'll be moved into evidence 100 through 128. Thank you.
[05:40:26] Commonwealth:
And sir, I might have neglected to ask, did you pass those proficiency tests?
[05:40:30] Speaker 07:
I've passed every proficiency test to date so far.
[05:40:34] Commonwealth:
So returning your attention back to January 9th at approximately 2.30 p.m. at the Coasset Police Station in 2023. Ms. Gilman, can we have what's been premarked as exhibit 100, file number 4239 published? Sir, do you recognize this photograph?
[05:40:59] Speaker 07:
Yes, I do.
[05:41:00] Commonwealth:
What is this a photograph of?
[05:41:01] Speaker 07:
This is a photograph of the Volvo I examined on January 9th. And where was it located, sir? It's located at the Cohasset Police Department inside their garage.
[05:41:12] Commonwealth:
Ms. Gilman, can we now have exhibit 101, file number 4250? Sir, what is this a photograph of?
[05:41:20] Speaker 07:
This is a photograph of the front of the same Volvo that I examined.
[05:41:26] Commonwealth:
Now, how did you conduct the examination of the Volvo that day?
[05:41:32] Speaker 07:
Initially, I did a sketch and diagram as well as take some notes based on the vehicle prior to any analysis, so what it looked like from the exterior before I went inside of it and before I started performing any sort of biological testing. I then gathered information from the investigators on scene that were pertinent to the case so that I could determine what forensic linkages I needed to be looking for and then proceeded with those biological screening tests at that point.
[05:41:59] Commonwealth:
What was the overall condition of the exterior of the vehicle?
[05:42:03] Speaker 07:
Overall, the exterior was very clean. There was an apparent hair noted in the front passenger exterior door handle.
[05:42:10] Commonwealth:
And what was the overall condition of the interior of the vehicle?
[05:42:14] Speaker 07:
The interior was overall very clean with miscellaneous items throughout most of the vehicle.
[05:42:20] Commonwealth:
Ms. Gilman, can we now have exhibit 102, which is file number 4275? Sir, do you recognize this photograph?
[05:42:29] Speaker 07:
Yes, I do.
[05:42:30] Commonwealth:
What did you see in the vehicle as far as child safety seats?
[05:42:34] Speaker 07:
There were two child safety seats, one located in the second row on the passenger side and another seat located in the third row on the driver's side.
[05:42:43] Commonwealth:
Now, sir, what did you observe as far as any staining inside the vehicle?
[05:42:48] Speaker 07:
There were two areas of visible staining that I noted, one being a red-brown stain on the front driver's side visor and then there was brown stains noted on the front passenger side visor.
[05:42:58] Commonwealth:
Ms. Gilman, can we have exhibit 103, which is file number 4283? Sir, directing your attention to the screen, what is it that we're looking at?
[05:43:09] Speaker 07:
This is a photograph of the stain, the red-brown stain on the driver's side visor that I had marked with a ruler and the letter A.
[05:43:17] Commonwealth:
And so you're the person who would put that piece of tape there?
[05:43:19] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[05:43:21] Commonwealth:
Ms. Gilman, can we have exhibit 104, which is file 4286?
[05:43:27] Speaker 31:
What is it that we're looking at here, sir?
[05:43:29] Speaker 07:
Similarly, this is a photograph of the brown stains on the front passenger visor that I marked B with the ruler tape.
[05:43:37] Commonwealth:
Now, what did you find as far as gloves on the passenger side of the car?
[05:43:42] Speaker 07:
On the passenger side of the vehicle, on the floor, there were two examination-style gloves. In the front passenger door pocket, there were two additional exam-style gloves in a ziplock bag. And in the center console, there was 16 exam-style gloves inside of the center console.
[05:43:59] Commonwealth:
Ms. Gelman, can we have exhibit 105, which is file number 4279? Sir, do you see this photograph?
[05:44:08] Speaker 07:
Yes, I do.
[05:44:09] Commonwealth:
Can you show us where you found gloves on the passenger side?
[05:44:13] Speaker 07:
Yes. So on the right hand side of the photograph on the floor, there are the light blue colored gloves. Those would be the two gloves that I observed on the floor.
[05:44:24] Commonwealth:
And Ms. Gilman, can we now have exhibit 106, which is file number 4258? Sir, do you recognize this image?
[05:44:32] Speaker 07:
Yes, I do.
[05:44:33] Commonwealth:
And what is this an image of?
[05:44:34] Speaker 07:
This is the open center console between the front driver and passenger seats with 16 examination style gloves inside of it.
[05:44:45] Commonwealth:
With the Volvo that afternoon, what were you able to do as far as any testing?
[05:44:51] Speaker 07:
The testing I performed on the Volvo was the blood screening test we use at the laboratory. It is a color-changing test involving two chemicals. I'll take a clean swab and apply it to any areas that I'm interested in determining if there is potential blood present. It is a screening test, so it does not confirm the presence of blood. Additional testing would be needed. But the color test allows us to visualize stains that we can't see. So I applied this test throughout multiple areas inside the vehicle, looking for blood that was not visible to the naked eye. When it's negative, the swabs don't change any color after I add the chemicals. If it's positive, it will turn a pinkish violet sort of color after the addition of the chemicals. And prior to performing all of those tests, I made sure that my chemicals were working by using a positive and negative control on those chemicals.
[05:45:40] Commonwealth:
And can you tell us what items might trigger a positive that are not human blood?
[05:45:45] Speaker 07:
Yes. So there are vegetables such as cauliflower that have a peroxidase reaction, which is the main reaction in our blood screening test. So that is the main sort of reaction we're looking for. So occasionally those vegetables or legumes such as beans, those are examples of items that can have that positive reaction as well that are not blood.
[05:46:07] Commonwealth:
Now, with this test, were there any areas that tested positive?
[05:46:13] Speaker 07:
Yes, there were.
[05:46:14] Commonwealth:
What areas of the vovo tested positive?
[05:46:17] Speaker 07:
Of all the areas I examined, there were five that tested positive for blood screening. One was the front driver's side seat controls for the front seat. There was an area on the second row passenger floor mat that tested positive. The third row passenger seat was folded down and the backside of that screened positive for the presence of blood. And two additional areas on the mat that was in the trunk that was covering the trunk storage space. There was two mats, one area on each of them, screened positive for the presence of blood. And these were areas that I did not observe any visible staining.
[05:46:57] Commonwealth:
And, sir, how many areas do you think you tested overall in the VOGO?
[05:47:03] Speaker 07:
Overall, I would estimate approximately 40 to 50. I covered a lot of the contact areas, so steering wheels, door controls, the radio controls, handles, door pulls, the floor mats, the brake pedals, and many areas inside of the vehicle.
[05:47:21] Commonwealth:
And so, did you have the opportunity to take any samples from the car?
[05:47:26] Speaker 09:
Yes, I did.
[05:47:27] Commonwealth:
And so what did you take as far as samples from the Volvo that day?
[05:47:34] Speaker 07:
From the Volvo, I collected the hair I previously mentioned or the apparent hair that I mentioned from the exterior front passenger door handle. And then each of those five areas that screen positive for the presence of blood, I took samples from each of those individually for further testing back at the laboratory.
[05:47:51] Commonwealth:
So can you walk us through, how do you take those samples? Like, how do you package them up? How does that work?
[05:47:57] Speaker 07:
So the samples are collected with a set of swabs. I'll use a drop or two of clean water and apply it to the swabs. And then I'll take those swabs and go over those areas that screen positive to collect any sample that might be there. And then I'll put each of those samples into a glassine envelope, which then goes into a coin envelope that I'll transport back to the laboratory to be sealed and then stored properly for a further analysis.
[05:48:22] Commonwealth:
How long do you think it took to examine the vovo and collect the samples?
[05:48:26] Speaker 07:
I would estimate it took me roughly three and a half to four hours.
[05:48:30] Commonwealth:
And after collecting the swabs, did you go back to the crime lab?
[05:48:36] Speaker 07:
No, I did not. Where did you go to next? While I was examining the vehicle, I was requested to respond to 300 Forest Street in Peabody, Massachusetts.
[05:48:45] Commonwealth:
What time do you think you got to 300 Forest Street? I arrived there approximately 8.15 p.m. And can you describe what 300 Forest Street in Peabody is?
[05:48:54] Speaker 07:
300 Forest Street is a recycle and trash collection center located just off of Route 1.
[05:49:00] Commonwealth:
And what did you see when you got to 300 Forest Street?
[05:49:07] Speaker 07:
Mainly there was a large area where trash had been collected from various neighborhoods and areas, and there was a certain section of trash that had been separated from the larger piles that were there.
[05:49:20] Commonwealth:
Ms. Gilman, can we have what's been marked as Exhibit 107 HAS 6556. Sir, do you recognize this image?
[05:49:33] Speaker 07:
Yes, I do.
[05:49:34] Commonwealth:
What is this an image of?
[05:49:35] Speaker 07:
This is the entrance to the Recycle and Trash Collection Center, showing the mounds of garbage that are there.
[05:49:41] Commonwealth:
And Ms. Gelman, can we have HAS 6564, what's been previously marked as Exhibit 108? And do you see this image, sir?
[05:49:53] Speaker 07:
Yes, I do.
[05:49:54] Commonwealth:
What is this an image of?
[05:49:56] Speaker 07:
This is a continuation of the interior of the center.
[05:50:00] Commonwealth:
And so the trash that you had the opportunity to see people going through, I'm going to direct your attention to what's been marked as exhibit 109. Ms. Gilman, can we have exhibit 1096566? Was this mixed in with all the other stuff that we just saw, or is this somewhere else?
[05:50:20] Speaker 07:
I'm unsure. This photo was taken prior to my arrival at the collection site. Okay. But what is this a picture of? This is a picture of a separated portion of the garbage in the center.
[05:50:32] Commonwealth:
Now, what did you see as far as people searching or going through the trash that night?
[05:50:40] Speaker 07:
By the time I arrived, the main search had already been done and there was bags of trash that were beginning to be emptied and inventoried by crime scene services section and the detective unit that was there.
[05:50:52] Commonwealth:
And so what was your role as far as dealing with these bags of trash that other officers were going through?
[05:51:02] Speaker 07:
My main role was to assist with the other units that were present and to sift through the items in those bags to determine what items would be relevant for forensic analysis and then which units would be responsible for taking those items back to the laboratory afterward.
[05:51:17] Commonwealth:
And so once, what was the first thing that was done when a bag was opened if there was some kind of evidentiary analysis that needed to be done on it?
[05:51:27] Speaker 07:
The first thing that I did while the trash was being emptied was I had my notes where I noted the items that were coming out of the bags and then I worked with the crime scene services section trooper there as well who photographed those items as they were coming out of the bag as well.
[05:51:42] Commonwealth:
And how many different bags of, well, is it fair to say that you numbered the bags that you found to have some kind of value to you that night?
[05:51:53] Speaker 07:
The crime scene services section did use placards to denote the bags that they were removing and photographing.
[05:51:58] Commonwealth:
All right. Ms. Gelman, can I ask that you publish what's previously been marked as exhibit 51, file number 6810? Sir, do you recognize this image?
[05:52:11] Speaker 07:
Yes, I do.
[05:52:12] Commonwealth:
All right, so what's happening in this image that night when you were at 300 Forestry?
[05:52:17] Speaker 07:
This is the contents of one of the trash bags that was separated at the center.
[05:52:22] Commonwealth:
And Ms. Gilman, can you now show us exhibit 52, file number 6867? So now what are we looking at in relation to that last image, sir?
[05:52:36] Speaker 07:
Since that last photograph was taken, bench paper was put out onto the floor of the collection center in order to preserve the integrity of the evidence that we were collecting at that point.
[05:52:46] Commonwealth:
And so if it went onto a piece of paper like this, was it going to be collected?
[05:52:51] Speaker 07:
Potentially, yes.
[05:52:54] Commonwealth:
And this bag, sir, that we see on the screen for exhibit 52, did you have the opportunity to know what was inside this bag, bag one? Yes, I did. Can you tell us what was discovered inside of bag one?
[05:53:11] Speaker 07:
Inside of bag one was a pair of green boots, a black jacket with red-brown stains, and a bracelet inside of the pocket. There was a black purse with red-brown stains, a black wallet, and a pair of headphones inside of a case, as well as a pair of socks.
[05:53:29] Commonwealth:
Was anything discovered as far as car keys?
[05:53:32] Speaker 07:
Yes, there was a pair of Volkswagen keys as well.
[05:53:35] Commonwealth:
Ms. Gilman, can we have what's been marked as exhibit 110, file number 6869. Is this also the contents of that first bag?
[05:53:54] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[05:53:55] Commonwealth:
And Ms. Gilman, can we now have exhibit 111, what's been marked as 6870? Are these also the contents of that bag? Yes. Now, I'd like to ask you about another bag that you found, or had the opportunity to examine. Was there a trash bag with a designation two? Yes, there was. What was discovered inside of bag two?
[05:54:25] Speaker 07:
Inside of bag two were two white towels with red-brown stains, as well as a piece of tape with apparent gauze and red-brown stains inside of it.
[05:54:36] Commonwealth:
Ms. Gilman, can we have exhibit 112, which is file number 689A? Sir, is that one of the towels that was found inside of bag two?
[05:54:48] Speaker 08:
Yes, it is.
[05:54:49] Commonwealth:
And Ms. Gilman, can we have exhibit 113, file number 6902? Is that the second towel that was found inside the bag, sir?
[05:55:01] Speaker 07:
Correct.
[05:55:02] Commonwealth:
And what's the other items around the towel?
[05:55:06] Speaker 07:
Those are miscellaneous tissues with red brown stains.
[05:55:10] Commonwealth:
Now, was there a bag 3?
[05:55:14] Speaker 07:
Yes, there was.
[05:55:15] Speaker 31:
What was discovered inside of bag 3?
[05:55:18] Speaker 07:
Inside of bag 3 was a white bathrobe with red brown stains.
[05:55:24] Commonwealth:
Ms. Gilman, can we have what's been marked as exhibit 114, file number 6906? Sir, is this a picture of what was found, the bathrobe, and found inside of bag three?
[05:55:40] Speaker 08:
Yes, it is.
[05:55:43] Commonwealth:
Now, was there a bag four?
[05:55:48] Speaker 07:
There was.
[05:55:49] Commonwealth:
What was discovered inside of bag four?
[05:55:52] Speaker 07:
Inside of bag four was a pair of gray slippers with red brown stains, a pair of dark gray slippers with red brown stains and trace materials, as well as apparent hairs with red brown stains.
[05:56:05] Commonwealth:
So, Ms. Gilman, if we could have exhibit 115, file number 6915. Sir, do you recognize this image?
[05:56:17] Speaker 07:
Yes, I do.
[05:56:19] Commonwealth:
Directing your attention to this image, the slippers there, which ones are those in the top of it?
[05:56:25] Speaker 07:
The slippers located at the top are the gray slippers.
[05:56:29] Commonwealth:
And at the bottom, what is there next to the left of the jar?
[05:56:35] Speaker 07:
There is a leather strap wristwatch located as well.
[05:56:41] Commonwealth:
And you had said that there was a second pair of slippers that was recovered from that bag?
[05:56:46] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[05:56:47] Commonwealth:
Ms. Gilman, can we have exhibit 116, file number 6929? Sir, can you tell us where the second pair of slippers is in this photo?
[05:56:57] Speaker 07:
Yes, at the bottom center of the photo, you'll see the dark gray slippers with the red-brown stains and trace material noted on the bottom of one of the slippers. What is trace material? Trace material could reference a number of things. In this particular instance, it references the apparent hairs or fibers that I observed on the slippers.
[05:57:15] Commonwealth:
Ms. Gilman, can we have exhibit 117, file number 6934? Sir, what is the trace material you saw that night when you were at 300 Forestry?
[05:57:28] Speaker 07:
In the photo on the right-hand side of the overturned slipper, there are the apparent hairs and fibers that I call trace materials located on the right-hand side at the toe end of the slipper.
[05:57:39] Commonwealth:
Sir, I'd like to ask some questions about bag number five. What did you observe inside a bag? What did you observe produced from bag number five?
[05:57:47] Speaker 07:
Bag number five contained pieces of rug with red-brown stains on some of the pieces.
[05:57:54] Commonwealth:
Ms. Gilman, can we have exhibit 118, which is file number 6948? Sir, what are we looking at here?
[05:58:04] Speaker 07:
These are pieces of a rug with red-brown stains that I noted on two of the pieces.
[05:58:09] Commonwealth:
And Ms. Gilman, can we have exhibit 119, file number 6944? Sir, where did you see the red-brown staining on the rugs?
[05:58:20] Speaker 07:
On the two leftmost pieces, the left piece has red-brown stains in the bottom right corner, and then the one in the center of the photo has red-brown stains on the majority of the piece of rug.
[05:58:31] Commonwealth:
So, sir, after bag five, did you have the opportunity to see anything produced from a sixth bag?
[05:58:37] Speaker 07:
I did, yes. What was produced from the sixth bag? Inside the sixth bag was additional pieces of rug with red-brown staining on those as well.
[05:58:50] Commonwealth:
And besides red-brown staining of rug, what was discovered as far as a Tyvek suit?
[05:58:57] Speaker 07:
There was a white Tyvek suit discovered in the bag as well, along with a wrapper for a Tyvek suit.
[05:59:03] Commonwealth:
Was anything else discovered as far as a safety goggles or anything like that?
[05:59:08] Speaker 07:
Yes, safety goggles were discovered as well as additional miscellaneous items.
[05:59:14] Commonwealth:
Ms. Gilman, can we have exhibit 120, which is file number 6951? Sir, do you recognize this image?
[05:59:23] Speaker 07:
Yes, I do.
[05:59:24] Commonwealth:
What is this an image of?
[05:59:25] Speaker 07:
This is an image of the safety goggles and Tyvek suit wrappers that were found in bag number 6.
[05:59:30] Commonwealth:
Can you tell us what a Tyvek suit is?
[05:59:33] Speaker 07:
A Tyvek suit is typically a piece of personal protective equipment that one would wear in order to protect themselves from anything they might be working with.
[05:59:42] Commonwealth:
Have you ever worn one?
[05:59:43] Speaker 07:
I have, yes. When would you wear one? I have worn one specifically during training sessions where there are biological fluids that we are experimenting with.
[05:59:54] Commonwealth:
Ms. Gilman, can we have exhibit 121, which is file number 6956? Sir, do you recognize this image?
[06:00:02] Speaker 07:
I do, yes.
[06:00:03] Commonwealth:
What is this an image of?
[06:00:04] Speaker 07:
This is an image showing more of the pieces of the rug.
[06:00:07] Commonwealth:
And Ms. Gilman, can we have exhibit number 122, file number 6952?
[06:00:18] Speaker 31:
What are we looking at here, sir?
[06:00:20] Speaker 07:
This is a photograph of the lower half of the Tyvek suit from bag number 6.
[06:00:28] Commonwealth:
Did you have the opportunity to see the contents of a seventh bag that night?
[06:00:31] Speaker 07:
Yes, I did.
[06:00:33] Commonwealth:
What was inside the seventh, what was produced from the seventh bag?
[06:00:38] Speaker 07:
Your Honor, may I refer to my notes?
[06:00:40] Defense:
May.
[06:00:49] Speaker 07:
The seventh bag contained a bottle of hydrogen peroxide, a ice pack, a blue flat sheet as well.
[06:00:56] Commonwealth:
And, sir, I neglected to ask you about the rug as well. I showed you one image, which was exhibit 121. So, Ms. Gilman, can we have exhibit 123, file number 6963? Sir, what is this we're looking at?
[06:01:14] Speaker 07:
This is another piece of the rug from bag number 6, containing red-brown stains with apparent tissue.
[06:01:20] Commonwealth:
And what is apparent tissue? Like, I don't know what that means. It's not like Kleenex, right?
[06:01:26] Speaker 07:
That's correct. Apparent tissue from the forensic perspective is a material that may or may not resemble human skin tissue. In this particular instance, based on my observations, that's what I called it.
[06:01:39] Commonwealth:
Ms. Gilman, if you could take that down and if we could have exhibit 1246974. And so, sir, does this represent the contents of the of the seventh bag. Yes, it does. And so in the upper center, what is that brown bottle?
[06:02:04] Speaker 07:
It is a bottle of hydrogen peroxide.
[06:02:07] Commonwealth:
And the cut-up labels off to the side, did you note what those were for?
[06:02:14] Speaker 07:
I didn't note what they specifically were for. I grouped them under the miscellaneous items that were in this bag.
[06:02:20] Commonwealth:
And now, sir, did you have the opportunity to see an eighth bag in the contents produced?
[06:02:27] Speaker 09:
Yes, I did.
[06:02:29] Commonwealth:
Ms. Gilman, can we have the 0125, which is HAS7002? Sir, what is it that we're looking at here?
[06:02:41] Speaker 07:
This is a photograph of the contents of bag number eight. And what was produced from bag number eight? Bag number eight contained a hammer, a pair of wire snips, a hatchet, and a hacksaw with red-brown stains on it.
[06:02:55] Commonwealth:
What are wire snips and then what are shears?
[06:02:59] Speaker 07:
They're sharpened tools that can be used to cut an item of interest.
[06:03:03] Commonwealth:
So which one of those two objects is snips and which one is a shear?
[06:03:07] Speaker 07:
The shears are located on the right-hand side of the photo. The snips are located in the center between the hacksaw and the hatchet.
[06:03:21] Commonwealth:
Now, sir, I want to ask you about bag 10.
[06:03:28] Speaker 30:
What was your coverage for the 10th bag?
[06:03:30] Speaker 07:
The 10th bag contained a large piece of tarp that was taped together, so multiple pieces were taped together to form a larger tarp.
[06:03:40] Commonwealth:
Ms. Gilman, can we have exhibit 126? Is this what the 10th bag looked like, sir?
[06:03:50] Speaker 07:
Prior to opening the contents, yes.
[06:03:53] Commonwealth:
And Ms. Gilman, can we have exhibit 127? What is it we're looking at here in 127, sir?
[06:04:06] Speaker 07:
This is a photograph of protective booties that are worn over the bottoms of shoes.
[06:04:11] Commonwealth:
And where were those recovered from, sir?
[06:04:13] Speaker 07:
Those were also recovered in bag 10 once the contents were emptied.
[06:04:17] Commonwealth:
And Ms. Gelman, can we have what's been previously marked as exhibit 50, file number 7029? What is this, sir?
[06:04:30] Speaker 07:
This is a photograph of the tarp from bag number 10 as it was being unfurled from the bag.
[06:04:36] Commonwealth:
And Ms. Gilman, can we now have exhibit 128, file number 7035? What is this image of, sir?
[06:04:48] Speaker 07:
This is an image of additional items from bag number 10, one of them being an apparent piece of insulation and then some scraps from containers.
[06:04:58] Commonwealth:
So, sir, what was done with all of these items?
[06:05:04] Speaker 07:
The items that were taken out of all the bags, we discussed amongst the crime scene services section, detective unit and myself, which items would be going to which units first for analysis, items of evidence that would be going straight to the criminalistics unit for analysis, I would be collecting items that would be analyzed for potential prints would be going with the crime scene services section and state police detective unit would be responsible for the remaining items.
[06:05:32] Commonwealth:
What items, well, at this point in time, I'd like to ask you something, sir. Are you familiar with what's called the LIMS system for the crime lab?
[06:05:41] Speaker 07:
Yes, I am.
[06:05:42] Commonwealth:
Can you tell us what the LIMS system is?
[06:05:44] Speaker 07:
LIMS stands for the Laboratory Information Management System. It is a software program that we utilize in order to track items of evidence that have been submitted to the laboratory and then their chain of custody history as they move throughout the laboratory.
[06:05:58] Commonwealth:
And so after you had the opportunity to collect items at night, where did you go?
[06:06:03] Speaker 07:
At that point, I left the facility and went to the laboratory in Danvers and submitted items of evidence there under lab number 23-00596.
[06:06:11] Commonwealth:
So that number, that's for the overall case that you're assigned to at this point in time, right?
[06:06:20] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[06:06:21] Commonwealth:
So what happens as far as when you make a submission of a piece of evidence into the limb system?
[06:06:26] Speaker 07:
Once the evidence has been submitted into the laboratory information management system, I then make assignments for myself to write a report based on what I collected from that scene, as well as assignments for the criminalistics unit for any items that need to be analyzed in the criminalistics unit as well. Every item is then appropriately packaged and or dried if it's wet, and then eventually transported to the appropriate storage facility.
[06:06:53] Commonwealth:
I'd like to ask you about some of the LIMS numbers that you were able to assign the objects that you entered into the evidence. Your honor, if it may be with the court's approval and with no objection from the defense, would he be able to refer to his report during this portion?
[06:07:09] Defense:
Any objection? No objection. You may.
[06:07:11] Speaker 11:
Thank you, your honor.
[06:07:16] Commonwealth:
Sir, what item number under LIMS did the swabs from the driver's seat controls get?
[06:07:22] Speaker 07:
Those swabs were given item number 9-1, 9 referring to the submission and 1 being the first item under that submission.
[06:07:30] Commonwealth:
And what item number did the swabs from the rear passenger seat floor mat get?
[06:07:36] Speaker 07:
The rear passenger side floor mat was given 9-2.
[06:07:41] Commonwealth:
What limbs number did the swabs from the rear passenger third row seat get?
[06:07:46] Speaker 07:
9-3.
[06:07:47] Commonwealth:
What was the limbs number for the swabs from trunk mat 1?
[06:07:51] Speaker 07:
Trunk Mat 1 was 9-4.
[06:07:54] Commonwealth:
What was the limbs number for the swabs from Trunk Mat 2?
[06:07:58] Speaker 07:
9-5.
[06:08:01] Commonwealth:
What was the item number for the swabs from the red-brown stain with the letter A?
[06:08:06] Speaker 07:
9-6.
[06:08:09] Commonwealth:
What was the item number for the hair sample you got from the door of the Volvo?
[06:08:14] Speaker 07:
9-7.
[06:08:15] Commonwealth:
What was the limbs number for the swabs, for the gloves, I'm sorry, what was the limbs number for the gloves from the floor?
[06:08:23] Speaker 07:
From the front passenger floor, it was 9-8.
[06:08:26] Commonwealth:
And what was the limbs number for the Ziploc bag in the passenger door pocket?
[06:08:33] Speaker 07:
9-9.
[06:08:34] Commonwealth:
And what was the limbs number for the gloves in the center console?
[06:08:38] Speaker 07:
9-10.
[06:08:44] Commonwealth:
Did you seize any band-aids from the floor of that vehicle?
[06:08:49] Speaker 07:
I seized two band-aids from the center console of the vehicle, yes.
[06:08:53] Commonwealth:
And what limbs number did they get?
[06:08:55] Speaker 07:
Those were given item 9-11.
[06:08:58] Commonwealth:
Now, directing your attention to the items from 300 Forestry, what was the limbs number for the black jacket from bag number 1?
[06:09:13] Speaker 07:
Nine dash 12.
[06:09:16] Commonwealth:
And what was the limbs number for the bracelet from the left pocket of that jacket?
[06:09:21] Speaker 07:
Nine dash 13.
[06:09:24] Commonwealth:
What was the limbs number for the black purse in bag one? Nine dash 14. And what was the number for the black wallet from bag one?
[06:09:33] Speaker 07:
Nine dash 15.
[06:09:35] Commonwealth:
What number did the pair of boots get from bag one?
[06:09:41] Speaker 07:
Nine dash 16.
[06:09:42] Commonwealth:
What item number did the Volkswagen keys get?
[06:09:47] Speaker 07:
9-17.
[06:09:49] Commonwealth:
And what limbs number did the headphones, did you find headphones that night?
[06:09:54] Speaker 07:
There were headphones inside of a case, yes. And what number did they get? They were 9-18.
[06:10:06] Commonwealth:
What item number did the, well, referring to bag two, What did you discover as far as any gauze?
[06:10:16] Speaker 07:
Inside of bag 2 was a piece of tape that had gauze inside of the tape. So the non-adhesive side was on the exterior and then the gauze was on the interior of that tape and the gauze appeared to be red-brown stained.
[06:10:29] Commonwealth:
And what was that the item number that you gave to the tape with the gauze and the red-brown stain?
[06:10:34] Speaker 07:
9-20.
[06:10:39] Commonwealth:
Regarding any of the wipes that you found from bag 2, what was the item number they got?
[06:10:45] Speaker 07:
They were 9-21.
[06:10:48] Commonwealth:
And the towels that were retrieved from bag 2, what numbers did they get?
[06:10:54] Speaker 07:
The white towel, one of them was 9-22 and the other was 9-23.
[06:11:01] Commonwealth:
What about the bathrobe from bag 3, what limit does that number get?
[06:11:05] Speaker 07:
The white bathrobe with red brown stains was 9-24.
[06:11:11] Commonwealth:
And the watch that was in bag four?
[06:11:17] Speaker 07:
Nine dash 25.
[06:11:23] Commonwealth:
Sir, what about the gray slippers with red brown stains from bag four? What limits number did they get?
[06:11:30] Speaker 07:
Gray slippers were nine dash 26.
[06:11:33] Commonwealth:
And then there was a second pair of slippers. Were they the dark gray slippers?
[06:11:39] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[06:11:40] Commonwealth:
All right, so what did the dark gray slippers with trace material get as a limbs number?
[06:11:44] Speaker 07:
9-27.
[06:11:46] Commonwealth:
And was there any hair samples recovered from bag 4?
[06:11:54] Speaker 07:
Yes, there was.
[06:11:55] Commonwealth:
What was recovered as far as a hair sample?
[06:11:58] Speaker 07:
There was apparent hairs with red-brown stains that were not on the slippers. They were just loose inside of the bag. I collected those as well.
[06:12:06] Commonwealth:
And what item number did they get?
[06:12:07] Speaker 07:
They were given 9-28.
[06:12:10] Commonwealth:
And any wipes recovered from bag 4?
[06:12:14] Speaker 07:
Yes, correct.
[06:12:15] Commonwealth:
And what did they get for an item number?
[06:12:17] Speaker 07:
9-29.
[06:12:20] Commonwealth:
And in the images from that bag, was there a sponge?
[06:12:26] Speaker 07:
There was, yes. A sponge with a wipe stuffed into it.
[06:12:30] Commonwealth:
And what item number did that get?
[06:12:32] Speaker 07:
That was given number 9-30.
[06:12:35] Commonwealth:
And was anything retrieved as far as cuttings or, I shouldn't say that, was anything, what was the item number given to the pieces of rug from bag five?
[06:12:46] Speaker 07:
From bag number five, I took a cutting myself from the red-brown stains that were seen on those pieces of rug. That cutting was given 9-31.
[06:12:57] Commonwealth:
What item number did the Tyvek suit get?
[06:13:01] Speaker 07:
9-32.
[06:13:02] Commonwealth:
And in bag 6, what number did the hand towel get?
[06:13:06] Speaker 07:
9-33.
[06:13:11] Commonwealth:
So, sir, now I'd like to show you some of these objects. And before I do, do you have any gloves with you?
[06:13:18] Speaker 09:
I do, yes.
[06:13:19] Defense:
I see Council at the side of the bench.
[06:13:21] UNKNOWN:
Yes, Your Honor.
[06:15:12] Speaker 02:
you you
[06:16:20] UNKNOWN:
you
[06:17:28] Speaker 02:
you
[06:18:23] Commonwealth:
So Your Honor, with the court's indulgence, I'm just going to be walking back and forth to grab certain objects. And I apologize if I appear to be a ping pong ball. But I think that's probably going to be the easiest way to do it.
[06:18:36] Defense:
That's fine.
[06:18:37] Speaker 30:
Thank you, Your Honor.
[06:19:00] Commonwealth:
Sir, what I'm going to do is I'm going to hand you an item that's in the back. I'm going to ask if you recognize the bag and open it up. I'm not going to ask you to produce anything from the back, okay? Yep. All right. Thank you, sir. So the first item I'm handing you is a manila envelope. Do you recognize that?
[06:19:17] Speaker 07:
Yes, I do.
[06:19:18] Commonwealth:
What is it, sir?
[06:19:19] Speaker 07:
This is a manila envelope containing the COVID card of Anna Walsh that I recovered from the scene.
[06:19:40] Speaker 09:
Yes, it is.
[06:19:40] Commonwealth:
Thank you. The Commonwealth would seek to have this envelope marked as the next exhibit, Your Honor.
[06:19:47] Defense:
Any objection?
[06:19:48] Commonwealth:
No objection.
[06:19:49] Defense:
Is it 129 we're at? Yes, Your Honor. The COVID card will be, or the exhibit with the pouch that contains the COVID card is now in evidence as 129. Jurors, I do expect that there's going to be a series, and based on what we're consulting with at the side of the bench, there's going to be a series of of bags of evidence that you, that are gonna, the comel's gonna move in to evidence. And those bags, to the extent that they are admitted as evidence, will go back with you in the jury room for you to examine as you need during your deliberations. But my understanding that they're gonna stay in the bags right now. And when they go back with you, you'll have proper gloves, just like the witness now has, all right?
[06:20:46] Speaker 31:
Thank you. Sir, do you recognize this bag?
[06:20:49] Speaker 07:
Yes, I do.
[06:20:49] Speaker 31:
What is that?
[06:20:50] Speaker 07:
This is the bag of keys and headphones that I recovered at the scene.
[06:20:54] Speaker 30:
Could you open it and confirm that those items are inside that bag?
[06:21:07] Speaker 09:
Yes, they are.
[06:21:09] Speaker 30:
The Commonwealth will seek to have the bag with the keys and headphones marked as the next exhibit, Your Honor, which I believe is 1.30.
[06:21:15] Defense:
Any objection? No objection. It's marked and admitted into evidence as exhibit 1.30, the bubble keys and the headphones.
[06:21:49] Speaker 07:
Yes, this is a bag of the black jacket with red brown stains pair of socks and bracelet from bag number one at the collection site in Peabody. I can see the black jacket. However, without removing it, there's nothing I can see that might be underneath it.
[06:22:26] Commonwealth:
OK. So for today's purposes, that bag with the black jacket, I would seek to mark as the next exhibit, Your Honor, without having to move the jacket around and go underneath any objects inside it.
[06:22:37] Defense:
What's the outside labeling say? Black jacket, bracelet, and what else?
[06:22:42] Speaker 07:
Pair of black socks, Your Honor.
[06:22:48] Defense:
Any objection to that?
[06:22:50] Speaker 30:
No objection.
[06:22:51] Defense:
The contents of that packet, which has on the outside of it, black jacket, bracelet, and black socks, is now in evidence as 131.
[06:22:59] Commonwealth:
Sir, I'm producing another bag to you. Do you recognize this?
[06:23:18] Speaker 07:
Yes, I do. What is that? This is a bag marked as purse and wallet from bag number one.
[06:23:24] Speaker 31:
Yes, they are.
[06:23:34] Speaker 30:
Any objection?
[06:23:37] Defense:
No objection. The purse and the black wallet, both black purse and black wallet are now in evidence as 132.
[06:23:52] Speaker 30:
Thank you.
[06:24:23] Speaker 07:
Yes, I do. A pair of green boots recovered from bag number one. The outside of the bag reads green boots bag number one with my initials, my trainees initials and the date.
[06:24:45] Defense:
Bag with the green boots is now in evidence as exhibit 133.
[06:25:03] Commonwealth:
Sir, do you recognize this bag?
[06:25:09] Speaker 07:
Yes, I do.
[06:25:10] Commonwealth:
What is that, sir?
[06:25:11] Speaker 07:
This is a brown paper bag containing a bracelet.
[06:25:15] Commonwealth:
Can you open the bag and turn the bracelets inside?
[06:25:22] Speaker 07:
Yes, there's a bracelet inside.
[06:25:24] Speaker 30:
Commonwealth will seem to have this marked as the next exhibit you're on.
[06:25:27] Defense:
Any objection? The bracelet is now in evidence in its bag as 134.
[06:25:36] Commonwealth:
Sir, I'm handing you this first bag. Do you recognize it?
[06:26:03] Speaker 07:
Yes, I do. This is a bag marked white towel number one from bag number two at the PBT collection facility.
[06:26:12] Commonwealth:
And that's one of the two white towels you bagged up that night and took back to the crime lab?
[06:26:15] Speaker 07:
Yes, that's correct.
[06:26:16] Commonwealth:
Can you open it and make sure the towel's inside?
[06:26:21] Speaker 09:
Yes, it's inside.
[06:26:23] Speaker 30:
How long will it take to have this bag and the white towel marked for that exhibit, Your Honor?
[06:26:26] Defense:
No objection. White towel number one from bag two is now in evidence as exhibit 135.
[06:26:48] Speaker 07:
This bag is marked white towel number two.
[06:26:51] Commonwealth:
And does that look like the bag, the second bag for a white towel that you bagged that night?
[06:26:56] Speaker 07:
Yes, that's correct.
[06:26:57] Commonwealth:
Could you open it and confirm the towels inside?
[06:27:02] Speaker 30:
Yes, it's inside.
[06:27:06] Defense:
Any objection? The white towel number two from bag number two is now in evidence as 136. Can I see counsel at the side of the bench?
[06:27:17] Speaker 35:
Yes, Your Honor.
[06:27:46] UNKNOWN:
. . you
[06:29:31] Commonwealth:
I'm producing another bag too. I'm going to ask if you recognize that.
[06:29:36] Speaker 07:
Yes, I do.
[06:29:38] Commonwealth:
And what is that bag, sir?
[06:29:39] Speaker 07:
This bag contains a white bathrobe with red-brown stains that I recovered from bag number three.
[06:29:44] Commonwealth:
Could you open that bag and compare it with the bag on the other side?
[06:29:47] UNKNOWN:
Yes, it is.
[06:29:47] Speaker 07:
Could you open that bag and compare it with the bag on the other side?
[06:29:48] UNKNOWN:
Yes, it is. Could you open that bag and compare it with the bag on the other side? Yes, it is.
[06:29:50] Speaker 30:
Could you open that bag and compare it with the bag on the other side?
[06:29:53] Defense:
Yes, it is. Could you open that bag and compare it with the bag on the other side? Yes, it is. Could you open that bag and compare it with the bag on the other side? Any objection? Objection. The bathrobe from bag number three is now in evidence as exhibit 137.
[06:30:16] Speaker 07:
This is a bag of the dark gray slippers with red brown stains and trace materials.
[06:30:20] Speaker 30:
Yes, they are. No objection.
[06:30:30] Defense:
That's also from bag number three, is it? That's bag four. Thank you. The dark gray slippers from bag number four are now in evidence as 138.
[06:31:15] Commonwealth:
Mr. Cool. Recognize that bag?
[06:31:19] Speaker 07:
Yes, I do. What is that? This bag contains the leather strap watch from bag number four.
[06:31:24] Commonwealth:
And could you open it from the bottom inside?
[06:31:32] Speaker 09:
Yes, it is.
[06:31:32] Commonwealth:
The column will concede to have the next bag as the watch from bag number four as the next exhibit.
[06:31:39] Defense:
Any objection? No objection. The leather strap watch from bag four is now in evidence as 139.
[06:32:05] Speaker 30:
Yes, I do. And what is that?
[06:32:08] Speaker 07:
This is a bag containing apparent hairs with red brown stains from bag number 4.
[06:32:12] Speaker 40:
Could you open the bag and confirm that the item is inside?
[06:32:32] Speaker 07:
This one is still sealed.
[06:32:33] Speaker 30:
Oh, you didn't get them all?
[06:32:35] Speaker 07:
Yeah, I can't quite get it all. I might need new gloves as well.
[06:32:41] Commonwealth:
So your gloves have opened. The record have brought you a new set. So why don't I take yours?
[06:32:47] Speaker 09:
Thank you.
[06:33:16] Speaker 07:
Good, thank you. Yes, they're inside.
[06:33:27] Commonwealth:
The Commonwealth would seek to have the next bag with apparent hairs. Any objection?
[06:33:33] Defense:
No objection. The hair from bag number four is in evidence as 140.
[06:33:59] Commonwealth:
Sir, do you recognize this bag?
[06:34:01] Speaker 07:
Yes, I do.
[06:34:01] Commonwealth:
What is that?
[06:34:03] Speaker 07:
This is a pair of slippers with red brown stains from bag number four.
[06:34:06] Commonwealth:
So those are the light gray slippers?
[06:34:08] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[06:34:08] Commonwealth:
Can you open the green slippers?
[06:34:13] Speaker 09:
Yes, they are.
[06:34:16] Speaker 30:
Come off and see if you have the next bag marked as a 141 pair of slippers from bag number four.
[06:34:24] Defense:
No objection. Thank you. The bags. Light gray slippers from bag number four are now in evidence as exhibit 141.
[06:34:32] Commonwealth:
Sir, do you recognize this bag?
[06:34:51] Speaker 07:
Yes, I do. What is that? This is a bag containing the sponge with a wipe through it.
[06:35:01] Speaker 09:
Yes, it is.
[06:35:02] Defense:
Is that from bag four or are we now moved on to bag five?
[06:35:10] Speaker 30:
We are on bag four, Your Honor.
[06:35:12] Defense:
Okay. The sponge from bag number four is now in evidence is exhibit 142.
[06:35:52] Commonwealth:
Sir, do you recognize that bag?
[06:35:54] Speaker 07:
Yes, I do.
[06:35:55] Commonwealth:
What is that bag?
[06:35:56] Speaker 07:
This is a bag containing the Tyvek suit recovered from bag number six.
[06:35:59] Speaker 30:
Could you open and confirm the Tyvek suit since then?
[06:36:04] Speaker 07:
Yes, it is.
[06:36:04] Speaker 30:
The Commonwealth would seek to have this next bag, Your Honor, marked as the next exhibit, Tyvek suit from bag number six.
[06:36:13] Defense:
No objection. Thank you. Now in evidence says 143 is the Tyvek suit from bag six.
[06:36:24] Commonwealth:
Yes, I do.
[06:36:42] Speaker 07:
This bag contains the hand towel with red brown stains from bag number six.
[06:36:54] Speaker 30:
Any objection?
[06:36:58] Defense:
No objection. Handtowel from bag 6 is now in evidence as 144.
[06:37:25] Speaker 30:
Yes.
[06:37:43] Commonwealth:
Nothing further you're on.
[06:37:45] Defense:
Thank you cross. Good afternoon.
[06:37:50] Speaker 07:
Good afternoon.
[06:37:54] Speaker 30:
Oh, my apologies, sorry about that.
[06:38:15] Speaker 40:
If I just call you Mr. Gould, do you have a problem?
[06:38:19] Speaker 07:
Mr. Gould's fine.
[06:38:22] Speaker 41:
as you begin your testimony, that when you went to the scene of the, where all the trash and everything went, that people were collecting bags. At one point, you had to then take out some of the evidence and put it on the paper to quote preserve the integrity of the evidence.
[06:38:45] Speaker 08:
Yes.
[06:38:46] Speaker 41:
And when we talk about preserve the integrity of the evidence, what we're trying to do is what Make sure that you keep it in the same condition that it was in when you found it, correct?
[06:38:58] Speaker 07:
Exactly, yes.
[06:39:00] Speaker 41:
Now, do you know anything about a trash compactor that was taken to that area before you arrived?
[06:39:09] Speaker 07:
I don't know any specifics about a trash compactor, no.
[06:39:12] Speaker 41:
So can you tell the jury, if you have any information, that some of This evidence has been introduced that was taken out of a dumpster there, that it had first been in a compactor and then transferred to the dumpster. Are you just saying?
[06:39:31] Speaker 07:
I do not know.
[06:39:36] Speaker 41:
When you talk about the integrity of the evidence, it also includes trying to preserve the fact, as best you can, of how a particular item was stained is not stained by another item. Is that fair to say?
[06:39:53] Speaker 08:
That's fair to say, yes.
[06:39:54] Speaker 41:
So when you're handling this evidence that you're collecting, you're really taking care not to have one item touch another item because you don't want a transfer between biological evidence between item one and item two, correct?
[06:40:09] Speaker 07:
Correct, to the best of my ability, yes.
[06:40:15] Speaker 41:
In this case, and in the collection of this evidence, it's fair to say, isn't it, Mr. Gould, that you have no way of knowing before you were able to begin your examination of these items at the scene, how they had come into contact with each other, either within a bag or just being pulled out by people before you arrived.
[06:40:41] Speaker 07:
Before I arrived, correct.
[06:40:43] Speaker 41:
And there is such a thing. your expertise in forensics that includes characterization of transfer of biological evidence, correct?
[06:40:55] Speaker 07:
That is within the realm of our responsibilities, yes.
[06:40:58] Speaker 41:
And what that simply means is that one item that has some either biological evidence or something else, if it comes into contact with another item, it can transfer that to the other item. So item A that may have had a red-brown stain on it, I transfer some of that red-brown stain to item B, whereas before, item B never had a red-brown stain.
[06:41:25] Speaker 07:
That's correct. And the term we would use for that is called low cards exchange principle.
[06:41:31] Speaker 41:
And that would include, for instance, if you were looking at a pair of slip rooms like we have in this case, and you see in one of the photographs that there looks to be apparent hairs attached to the slip rooms. It could very well be that those hairs that are seen attached to the slipper, they could have transferred to that slipper because they were already in the bag or they came into contact with something else.
[06:41:57] Speaker 08:
Absolutely, yes.
[06:41:58] Speaker 41:
And so it's fair to say then that when you're out there, very careful, very careful, and with all the training and experience you've had, There's no way for you to be able to tell a jury. With regards to this specific case, how exactly some of this red-brown stain of biological evidence actually came to be on any piece of evidence?
[06:42:32] Speaker 07:
Correct. I cannot say the manner of deposition. I can only confirm its presence.
[06:42:37] Speaker 41:
And so it's fair to say, isn't it, that there could very well be some of this evidence that now When you look upon it, it has a red-brown stain on it. That red-brown stain may not have been on that piece of evidence when it was, in fact, initially placed into, for example, a black bag.
[06:42:58] Speaker 07:
That's possible, yes.
[06:43:05] Speaker 41:
In the photographs that were introduced of the scene where you went with all that It's fair to say that a lot of that trash and garbage had absolutely nothing to do with this case.
[06:43:21] Speaker 07:
Correct.
[06:43:22] Speaker 41:
How did you differentiate it to see what applied to this case and what didn't?
[06:43:28] Speaker 07:
Mainly once the discovery was made of red brown stains on items, I was looking for any items of interest that might be in with those bags that have those red brown stains on them as well to try to establish any potential biological connections with the items in those bags.
[06:43:43] Speaker 41:
And we saw a lot of photographs, but some of the photographs appear to have some of the items that were eventually taken into custody by you and given a lens number, like you described for the jury. Some of those items, when they were first taken out of the bags, it looks to me like they were placed directly onto the floor of that warehouse.
[06:44:07] Speaker 08:
Yes, they do.
[06:44:08] Speaker 41:
And the floor of the warehouse actually looked somewhat damp in the photographs.
[06:44:12] Speaker 07:
It does, yes.
[06:44:13] Speaker 41:
And it was infected.
[06:44:16] Speaker 07:
I can't recall exactly the conditions, but it is the floor of the facility, yes.
[06:44:21] Speaker 41:
And so it's fair to say that a lot of the... It's fair to say that you have no idea what was originally on the floor of that warehouse before you wrote. Correct. You just know that it had the appearance, it may have been damp, but you don't know what caused the damp.
[06:44:41] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[06:44:42] Speaker 41:
That's possible yes. Yes, we would refer to the white parchment paper typically in the lab is bench paper Yes Yes
[06:45:39] Speaker 07:
The evidence, I believe what I had said was that the evidence will eventually travel to its respective facility where it needs to be stored. But I did submit at one laboratory with all the items. Yes.
[06:45:51] Speaker 41:
After you transported the items to the West, did you have any further, did you do any further work on these items? No, I did not.
[06:46:10] Defense:
Any redirect? No, Your Honor. This may step down. Thank you, sir.
[06:46:14] Speaker 07:
Thank you, Your Honor.
[06:46:17] Commonwealth:
Your Honor, may we approach?
[06:46:19] Speaker 47:
Yes.
[06:46:54] UNKNOWN:
you
[06:47:54] Speaker 02:
Thank you. you
[06:50:25] Defense:
So jurors, I'm going to send you on your way today. And I was talking with the lawyers just now about what the schedule is for the rest of the week. I'd like to let you know, because I know I'm ever mindful of the sacrifice you're making to be here to serve as jurors in this case. So here's the rest of the week. I expect tomorrow will be a full day, 9 to 4. And then on Friday, I think I told many of you during the panel seems like a long time ago, so you may not remember. But my plan always was to go nine to one while the evidence was presented on Fridays. And that's frankly just for your own education to let me continue with the other cases that are in this session. So I see them on Friday afternoon when I have a longer case. So that's what I'm going to be doing Friday afternoon. But what it means for you is our day on Friday will likely be just nine to one. All right? So you have a layout. Hardee's telling me so far we're right on schedule. maybe a little ahead of schedule. So I try to keep informed because again, I know the sacrifice you're making. Have a good night, but before you leave, I remind you first, don't do any research about this case. Don't go on social media or any news media. Don't speak to anyone about this case and continue to have open minds as you listen to the evidence. So have a good night and I'll see you back here tomorrow. Ready to work.
[06:51:50] Speaker 40:
Alright, so the court please.
[06:52:39] Defense:
Circling back to a couple of things we spoke about earlier today. So the Commonwealth's motion with regard to the guilty plea was filed on Sunday night. And I frankly had asked Madame Clark if she could check because my recollection was that the defendant never filed a written. I know you've been busy. I just want to make sure I have all the paper in front of me. Is it correct that you have not filed a written opposition?
[06:53:15] Commonwealth:
I haven't had the chance to address it, but I will have something emailed to the court by tomorrow morning.
[06:53:20] Defense:
OK. And so here's, with regard to that, let me focus you a little bit more precisely, which is, I want that to address what relevance does the defendant's plea of guilty, not his taking responsibility by testifying consistent with the expected evidence presented in the opening. I lied to the police. I am properly disposed of my wife's body. What relevance does the fact of the plea if you are seeking to get the plea in of guilty to indictments or counts two and three, have to any permissible fact finding that this jury would do, recognizing that the jury is prohibited and will get an instruction consistent with almost every criminal case, that they may not consider punishment for the consequences of its burden. So one of the things I'm concerned about is in line drawing that I'm inviting the jury, if I allow them to hear evidence that he pled guilty, then I'm inviting them to do exactly what I'm going to tell them not to do, which is you are not to consider jurors. You stay in your lane, I stay in mine. So it's not clear to me entirely. And again, no fault of the parties you may be thinking through a lot of the information I gave you earlier today. But think about now whether, A, you are seeking to admit that he pled to those two counts. And if you are still seeking that information, what relevance does it have to this jury's permissible job? All right? Let me see if I made myself another note. When's the Commonwealth going to get me the fast-toe things? that reduced FASTO text messages.
[06:55:25] Commonwealth:
Oh, Your Honor, I had a chance to discuss the messages with the Commonwealth. And my position, and I alerted the Commonwealth to this, is that if the court was inclined to allow even some of the messages that my preference is the whole package of the messages that they initially wanted to come in comes in full.
[06:55:48] Defense:
OK. So relevant or not, you wish me to put it in.
[06:55:53] Commonwealth:
Given the court's ruling that some of the messages are coming in, it is our belief that the context of all the messages
[06:56:01] Defense:
is more beneficial as a strategic matter for your client?
[06:56:04] Commonwealth:
It's strategic. It's relevant. It gives a full context. I think otherwise, you'd be able to cherry pick certain statements and make an argument that another argument could be made on the exact opposite side of the coin had the other parts been admissible. So it is a strategic request.
[06:56:19] Defense:
I said this probably a million times. You know the evidence better than I did. I started before I assigned the Commonwealth to reduce. I started to try to reduce it myself. I was able to reduce it. But again, I don't know your cases nearly as well as you do. I'm just consuming it as the jury's consuming the evidence. All right? Anything? Those are the two things that I wanted to talk about before we suspend it for today. First, go to the calm off, and then I'll go to the defense. Anything that the calm off needs to talk about?
[06:56:51] Speaker 22:
Your Honor, with respect to the text messages, we did send counsel a copy with Names and images of certain individuals blurred out and redacted. I don't know that that's an issue. It's just the text content.
[06:57:06] Commonwealth:
I don't care about the photographs that are blurred.
[06:57:08] Defense:
All right, so particularly of the third parties, the minor third parties that are in those text messages, those absolutely need to be blurred. And, but you're not suggesting that the photo, or maybe you are suggesting that the photo that Anna Walsh sent at 1007 is blurred?
[06:57:34] Speaker 22:
No, Your Honor, only the third party minor children.
[06:57:38] Defense:
Okay. All right. That seems appropriate. Anything else from the Commonwealth?
[06:57:48] Speaker 22:
Nothing else from the Commonwealth.
[06:57:50] Defense:
For the defense, anything you want to raise with the court?
[06:57:52] Commonwealth:
I think what everyone wants to research and get an answer to is the 1020 maps that we were discussing at Sidebar, which again, I think we all just need to open a book, so to speak, and hopefully have information for the court about that, because that's relevant for Friday.
[06:58:10] Defense:
Right. There's a lot to unpack there from what my preliminary research reveals. But I haven't had a chance to read it. All right. Thank you.
[06:58:23] Commonwealth:
Good night.
[06:58:56] UNKNOWN:
Thank you.