Complete transcript with timestamps and conservative speaker identification.
[00:01:39] UNKNOWN:
. . Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. . . Thank you.
[00:14:35] Speaker 33:
Thank you.
[00:16:12] UNKNOWN:
. . you . . So I'm going to go through a couple of things. I'm going to go through a couple of things . . you . . you . . .
[00:31:45] Commonwealth:
Good morning, Your Honor. Greg Connor for the Commonwealth.
[00:32:09] Clerk:
Good morning, Your Honor. Anne Yaz for the Commonwealth. Good morning, Your Honor. Tracy Cusick for the Commonwealth.
[00:32:13] Speaker 15:
Good morning to the Commonwealth.
[00:32:16] Commonwealth:
Good morning on Larry Tipton for mr. Walsh and good morning to the defense counsel and to the defendant anything anyone needs to raise with me before we bring the jury in yes just a few housekeeping matters your honor we entered five stipulated exhibits of banking records and so I'm prepared if you would like those for your own record-keeping but they are up here they've been stipulated to and then they relate to the stipulation from yesterday regarding banking records or something different They relate to yesterday's stipulation. Okay. So they've just been marked as the next five exhibits.
[00:32:49] Speaker 15:
All right, that's fine. And then where does that put us on the exhibits mark for identification? That is what's the next one?
[00:33:05] Commonwealth:
These one is exhibits, your honor. So the next exhibit number would be 62.
[00:33:08] Speaker 15:
Thank you for the clarification. So these five went in for as exhibits, what through what? 56, 57, 58, 59, and 60?
[00:33:16] Commonwealth:
And 61.
[00:33:17] Speaker 15:
And again, Kamath, what are they banking records from where?
[00:33:22] Commonwealth:
So 56 is Apple Credit Union. Mm-hmm. 57 is Barclays slash JetBlue credit card. Mm-hmm. 58 is Leader Bank. 59 is JP Morgan Chase.
[00:33:36] Speaker 15:
All done.
[00:33:36] Commonwealth:
Certainly.
[00:33:45] Speaker 15:
I'm caught up. Yep.
[00:33:46] Commonwealth:
60 is Liberty Bay Credit Union. Mm-hmm. 61 is Fidelity.
[00:33:57] Speaker 15:
OK. So we start on 62 for today.
[00:34:00] Commonwealth:
Yes, Your Honor.
[00:34:02] Speaker 15:
And I for identification today is our starting point. OK.
[00:34:05] Commonwealth:
And Your Honor, after this interview is finished playing, which is about another 30 minutes, I would ask that the court read in stipulation that's been marked D regarding the Richard Walker email.
[00:34:14] Speaker 15:
All right, can I have that from either the clerk or the court court? D for ID. Thank you, Madam Clerk.
[00:34:32] Commonwealth:
Thank you, Your Honor.
[00:34:34] Speaker 15:
Anything else from the comma?
[00:34:36] Commonwealth:
Nothing further, Your Honor.
[00:34:37] Speaker 15:
And from the defense, anything this morning before we bring the jury in?
[00:34:42] Speaker 39:
Just briefly at sidebar, Your Honor.
[00:35:14] Speaker 36:
.
[00:35:34] UNKNOWN:
. you
[00:36:34] Speaker 36:
. .
[00:37:06] UNKNOWN:
Thank you.
[00:39:06] Speaker 15:
Yes, I am.
[00:40:46] Speaker 30:
All rise from court please. Chair is entering. Good morning, jurors.
[00:41:28] Speaker 15:
You had a good night. Jurors, we'll start today as I promised with the four questions. Jurors, were you able to comply with my order? that you not do any research about this case? Were you able to comply with my order that you not speak to anyone about this case? Have you stayed away from all social media and or news media? and you all still have open minds. With those four questions all answered by, in the affirmative, while 16 jurors are ready to begin today's work, witness may be called to stand.
[00:42:36] Commonwealth:
Thank you, Your Honor. I call them all for recall. Harrison Schmidt.
[00:43:06] Speaker 15:
Sir, you understand you're still under oath?
[00:43:09] Commonwealth:
Yes, Your Honor.
[00:43:09] Speaker 15:
You may proceed. Thank you, Your Honor.
[00:43:12] Commonwealth:
Yesterday, we stopped an interview from January 7th at approximately one hour and two minutes and 35 seconds in. At this point in time, Your Honor, I'd ask to finish that recording.
[00:43:25] Speaker 15:
You may.
[00:43:26] Commonwealth:
Ms. Gilman?
[00:43:38] Speaker 26:
Ms. Gilman, could you make it a little louder?
[00:43:45] Commonwealth:
Thank you.
[00:43:47] Speaker 26:
Yes, that was the understanding.
[00:44:01] Witness:
She was alluding to things being very busy with stuff on Friday.
[00:44:12] Witness:
Did she book a return flight earlier? Did she change the reservation?
[00:44:17] UNKNOWN:
Did she book a new one?
[00:44:18] Witness:
I don't see. Here's the thing. She's setting coming to Boston, but she never sent me a return flight. All I know is that she told me she had a return flight on the 3rd, but I don't know what time or what that was. I assumed everything was just the way it was, and then she moved the schedule up two days, which is not the first I mean, it is, the whole thing is a bit, I know it was odd, but considering the last couple months, it wasn't so much that I was like, hey, wait, what's happening? Whereas, you know, when I was talking to Jem, Jem's like, well, this seems insane. I was like, well, Jem, these are the things that I've been dealing with over the last couple months. So it wasn't something that I would be like, well, raise the eyebrow to. I was like, all right. All it did was further confirm that I got to get to see if the kids were better. We've got to work this out. It's too much stress on the whole family. And that was the main thing. I don't know. I just wanted to be there all the time.
[00:45:24] Speaker 26:
Did Ana ever tell you when the return flight was before 5th of July was in place?
[00:45:31] Speaker 18:
Say again?
[00:45:32] Speaker 13:
In other words, did she tell you which flight she was booked on
[00:45:36] Witness:
No, but she always took the first or second flight out. And she had said, she had already booked flights for January, but we were supposed to talk about that. And then she said, but then she said, she did say she was changing a flight, but not this flight. She was changing the flight to Martin Luther King Day. So I don't know if she did that or if she didn't, but she was talking about changing that flight, that she was gonna come in Thursday night. stay Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and leave Tuesday. And maybe try to leave, maybe say an extra day. So she was offering four or five days. Which is, again, it was normal when she said I would take Thanksgiving, like two weeks for Thanksgiving, and I would stay five days when I come back. And she only stayed for one day. And then she was always like, I don't have more time. It seemed like she was having less and less time.
[00:46:31] Speaker 26:
On New Year's Eve with Gemma, was Gemma aware that she had to leave the next one? No.
[00:46:40] Witness:
And what do you think Dennis did? Well, I don't know. I mean, Gemma, we were probably just, we just wanted to, I mean, most likely, just to enjoy the time with Gemma. He was only here for four and a half hours or so. No, I was aware that she was probably leaving early. Again, the assumption or story I've been having in my head is that she's leaving on Monday.
[00:47:12] Speaker 26:
So she was originally planned to leave on Tuesday. You were on the assumption by writing in early it would be Monday.
[00:47:20] Witness:
Yeah, I mean, again, I had no information otherwise. So what were your plans with on the music? Yeah, so it was going to be the same stuff. was is that she might have come up with me to see my mother, possibly, or the whole family would have done something, like, you know, up in Swampscott or somewhere nearby, you know, because I said I had time, and I dropped my mother off, so I'm going to go see her and maybe do some I don't know. I didn't bring it up, but she was troubled by whatever happened with Eddella. She was like, this can't be my product. This was 30 minutes before New Year's. And she brought it up. She did bring it up for a fall jab at the time before the program. You said he couldn't be a friend?
[00:48:26] Speaker 13:
He texts on New Year's Eve saying friendship is over or something to that. Right? Yeah.
[00:48:32] Witness:
What did he say? I'm sorry, I appreciate, you know, like give a leadership to advance or like, I accept, you know, what you're saying. And then he called to leave a message. And then I remember her saying, I'm not taking, I'm not going to listen to this. That's why she actually put her phone upstairs shortly after. I think she understood it. I think it was, He was saying that, you know, I haven't even seen you in the holiday season. You're in town, you know, not seeing me in person. You know, often enough, that's not acceptable. I'm here to, you know, support you and take care of you or whatever it is. So, you know, it was just that bit. I mean, it's not the relationship, I guess, she thought that they were having. He's married with different children, by the way. Yeah, they worked at the Willard Intercontinental together back in 2012. You said she went and put her phone upstairs after that? After that, she, I would say it was 12, she had her 15, and then she, I remember her putting her phone upstairs because then she came back down without it.
[00:49:49] Speaker 26:
Was, Thomas came down at one point and hung out with you? Yes. Yeah, exactly. Was this before, during, or after Thomas was participating as well?
[00:50:00] Witness:
Oh yeah, Thomas went to bed. He went to bed and then he came over at like nine or 10 or something. I think Anna took a bunch of photos. Gemma and I don't have any because she didn't send them to us yet. But I think she sent one to real fast though. So that's when the photo was taken about. So it was maybe 10 o'clock or something like that. Yeah. In your room? Yeah, in my room now. In the ceiling tile? Yeah, not in the ceiling tiles, Roy. On top, on top. Makes sense. But she did seem disturbed by that, which was odd. And she did bring it up, you know, and she brought it up in the engine at the time, so I mean that was something, you know, not normal.
[00:50:59] Speaker 31:
You got to kind of cut us off.
[00:51:02] Witness:
Yeah, sorry about that.
[00:51:04] Speaker 31:
You said that the plan for New Year's Day was to take honor on the kids up to... Maybe, yeah. Do you actually have a plan?
[00:51:12] Witness:
No, we didn't have a full-fledged plan at the time. But we were, well, we had options and stuff, so... because I was going to have to go take my mother. So if I'm the man again, I didn't know what it was going to look like, and what I was going to want to do, and things like that. So also, if I was going to see my mother, I was going to take the kids somewhere. They were going to meet up later. But because I spent so little time outside of the house, when I do, I do most of it as a family, getting in contact with everything that we do.
[00:52:01] Speaker 26:
You mentioned you had options on New Year's.
[00:52:03] Witness:
Yeah, because I had the time to go up to see my mother. So I was like, you can go up. And we wanted to do something with her, with the family. We had those. Those options were available to us, which today may not be, because I haven't had any time.
[00:52:21] Speaker 29:
You guys had an argument after she said she couldn't go to Marlin?
[00:52:27] Witness:
No, we didn't have an argument. I was taking my surprise. I have to go to sleep. And I was like, well, hold on. And she's like, I have to get up early, Brian. I have to go tomorrow. And I was like, oh, I wasn't expecting that. And then she said, I have to leave early. So I knew it was going to be like that early. So, but I did have an argument with her for Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve, so I wasn't going to make the same exact time. I was like, okay, eventually immediately backed it up with like, hey, I'm going to come four or five days and It was a king day because we were making a new schedule for January and February. I said coming every week might not, is really not good. There's any way that you could come every other week for more time. So we were working on that when she arrived Friday and Saturday. We were talking about that.
[00:53:30] Speaker 29:
Is it good to sit her phone and get in on her how much she contracts?
[00:53:47] Witness:
But let's say that I'm wrong about that. So sure, she would use my phone, right? But she put the list on here. I guess she'd download Uber and get it. But I know where my phone was. And we didn't have this phone at the time. So we don't have phones in the apps. I wouldn't be able to use the iPad to do it. I would not, but she would know my... The only thing I sell is one phone, one, and her laptop. That other iPad that I'm telling you about should be actually at the DC. She did have a laptop over there. But remember, she programmed all of these. I'm going to go on to get this one. Oh, I probably brought it on the... I forget when we got the phone, because she had to get the phone, or my mother had it, and she was bringing it with the watch and everything, so it probably came here on the, she probably brought it on the second or something, everything came on the second.
[00:55:06] Speaker 26:
When you didn't have your phone, you sent those emails, those three emails? Yeah.
[00:55:28] Witness:
No, I would never do that.
[00:55:31] Speaker 31:
No, sir, no. My wife and I are going very, very well.
[00:55:44] Witness:
Hey, the only stress we're having is going together. It's really, I've fought him crazy about it for months. The whole family doesn't work without my wife. never hurt my life. I mean, I love her, and I think about my kids, too. She's a wonderful mother on top of being a wonderful wife. And to take that away from that, I mean, I couldn't even imagine something like that. That's not, you never do anything that hurt no wife. I wanted to spend the rest of my life with my wife. I still, I'm still going to. Yeah, we were apart because of the job and my problems.
[00:56:25] Speaker 26:
No, I wasn't angry.
[00:56:32] Witness:
I was sad. I got angry about Thanksgiving. And then I realized I was just sad that we're not spending a lot of time together. And she was sad about it, too. It was exhausting. My wife and I were a very good team. We agreed on it. We agreed on it, and I had to get to DC. It just didn't feel like we were authors of our own lives. So why she wrote that on the thing, we have to be the authors of our own lives to make this happen, Brian. We're all working together. You know I like a lot of people have said maybe she's a spa you know and she was under a lot of pressure doesn't remind it doesn't really track with my wife she loved her job she loved her I can't, I'm having a hard time with Matt. I'm having a hard time with Matt. Does she have any other identification? She's got a Serbian passport or Serbian, you know, international identification cards, one with Louis, one with Nick. I haven't seen her use them recently. I don't know if they're in, I don't even know if the date is on them or the property.
[00:58:35] Speaker 31:
But you should revisit our family or good friends.
[00:58:39] Witness:
She's a language expert. She spent time in college in France, which she speaks perfect French. But she has a friend there. I don't know if it's still there, Julienne. But other than that, that would be it. And then we have DC in Boston.
[00:59:21] Speaker 11:
Was she scheduled? It appeared in the newspaper. Not that I ever believe the newspaper, which is why I'm asking you guys. It appeared in the newspaper that she did have reservations to go back to D.C. on January 3rd. That makes sense, yeah.
[00:59:36] Speaker 29:
I'm just asking if that's confirmed.
[00:59:40] Speaker 11:
Do you know what time?
[00:59:48] Speaker 13:
To our knowledge, it's non-cancery or aggressive.
[00:59:51] Witness:
Is there a chatter between JetBlue and her over the last few months? Because when she doesn't call, she does something. They do it online, in online messaging. Oh, they should probably go to the JetBlue site. Yeah, they have a chat. Yeah. So she could be doing that and feeding the kids or something like that. Right, but a lot of times, she would talk to them and it wouldn't work out and then she'd take a break and then come back. Yeah, so sometimes, I mean, I don't know if it could be like, we'll just come and change at the counter, or like, I can't do this, and she was always asking for, she had gotten a good status, especially with the car, so I don't know what her deal was, but it's possible.
[01:00:57] Speaker 26:
Do you have French reservations or any French plans on the years?
[01:01:05] Witness:
Not that I know, but Anna was talking about making cellar, so I don't know if she did it or not. I haven't checked, I haven't looked for anything on David or Rezi or anything like that, but I could take a look.
[01:01:32] Speaker 26:
Yeah.
[01:01:59] Witness:
I mean, if she were going home on January 3rd, would she have gone out to brunch with other friends or anything? No, no way. No. The only time when she was here that she saw someone without me was Ronnie Mott. And I was over there with her twice. She was there twice. That's the only time. We got together three years ago, and he lives with his wife, Angelina Marshall. They've been calling for support. Jim Mulu, who's here, obviously, and a friend, and one of who obviously loves Ana very much. Ryma Ferrer, she was Ana's mentor, and they were very good friends. Those would be the main ones that I would think of.
[01:03:56] Speaker 27:
She sent it to me.
[01:04:28] Speaker 29:
We want to pull those in the past week.
[01:04:56] Witness:
We're going to jump through a lot of rules.
[01:04:59] Speaker 18:
Yeah, absolutely.
[01:04:59] Witness:
How much of the Chase Freedom would you like? Very impressive rule.
[01:05:05] Speaker 11:
Oh, OK. We'll give you all December. Sure. We're not going to cut.
[01:05:09] Speaker 21:
It's probably easier just now. They come in a month.
[01:05:11] Speaker 13:
Whatever the last month's statement is, I'm not sure if it's, you know how some of them start December 10th.
[01:05:18] UNKNOWN:
If you have any statements, why is that coming in December?
[01:05:28] Speaker 13:
I have dealt with honor, everything else.
[01:06:09] Witness:
Basically what happened two generations ago in Serbia in Belgrade, aunt's father's mother's or grandmother bought a piece of land with her sister or something and then they had kids and there's been a land dispute over it because now it's worth a lot of money and you can build a large building there. And that building, that kind of money in Serbia changed your life. And then they've been fighting over it for many, many years, 20 years. They thought they were going to resolve it in 2017. Then things didn't work out. Things went back and forth. And then just this Thanksgiving, they, you know, basically dissolved the deal. So they had a deal that took 15 years to put together. Five years later, they couldn't perform.
[01:07:14] Speaker 26:
Wow, cool.
[01:07:32] Witness:
I can't think of anything like that, honestly. I mean, the only people I know are the people that she was working with, and she had very good working relationships with everybody. No, again, it would be very hard to... No, I mean, I wouldn't have a name to give you for that.
[01:08:18] Speaker 26:
Okay, what about you? Any previous business partners, any current partners, anybody that would be upset with you, that would want to try and hurt you in some way?
[01:08:30] Witness:
I love it. Yeah, L.A. Right, but there's an Anna as well. And then he called Anna during the day. So I mean, that's the one, you know, that's one person. But I don't think so either. But yeah, it was a lot of work. But he had Ron Rivlin. Yeah, but he did call. He called Anna and he brought her into Facebook text at one point, you know, stole from me. I know the police, the FBI, you know, coming to get you, things like that. But that was, you know, six years ago. Other than, when I was arrested, he tried to contact her via Facebook or something, 2018, but, you know, we haven't heard from him since. 2018? I think it was just, he was trying to friend her or something like that. That's right. But that would be someone who, I mean, so, you know, a different situation. So, you know, him and, you know, I mean, there's Jung and Lee in Korea, but highly unlikely. I mean, he's a billionaire. I don't think he would. What in Korean? His name is Jung.
[01:10:25] Speaker 13:
And besides, they would be pissed at him.
[01:10:30] Witness:
Yeah. Yeah, Ron is the only one that, like, tried to bring us, like, you know. And what was the other name you said? It was Arno. The other person who Arno, who's, yeah, in Paris, he's a, he's a,
[01:10:55] Speaker 29:
But those are the names of the players.
[01:11:01] Speaker 13:
And Ron was the one who didn't have contact with my wife.
[01:11:12] Witness:
And didn't serve my wife at work. Well, definitely Korea and France. France are pretty, I mean, yeah, he's the only guys in LA, so.
[01:11:37] Speaker 11:
We won't give you any information that we get.
[01:11:53] Speaker 29:
With the out-of-state place, was that a visit or? What time did he arrive at?
[01:12:21] Witness:
who was one of August's mentors 10 years ago. I haven't seen him in a decade. It was weird. And then, I used to speak to Jay, and he went over and spoke to the kids for, what's it exactly, the kids for minutes, but.
[01:12:35] Speaker 29:
I'm hearing a lot of talking about his friends and his leadership. What exactly is going on with these groups
[01:12:48] Witness:
And, you know, we formed pretty close relationships there. And we, as I said, that we, you know, we raised a lot of money through our community service projects each year. of this school three years ago and not have graduated in February, three years ago, so 2020. Well, it's a four or five month program and then you get a graduation. He says that you've graduated or have a certificate of completion of your work. It's not accredited, to be clear. Is Adele is a member of that? He is not, no. He's not? The other guy he brought in was? James Ryan, yeah. What does he do? A mentor from when she was young at work, yeah. OK. And I had a good, you know, someone that she considered. I guess they spent time together, I don't know, four or five months ago as well.
[01:14:02] Speaker 29:
When was the last time you went for the trip?
[01:14:07] Witness:
Oh, yeah. It was three years ago. The last time she was there. Part of it, yeah. Yeah, but we stay in touch. Okay. All right. But, you know, Jan, Melissa, and Peter Kirby, all of them have gone through that training. But if you have any other questions, post them in the comments. Anything from the pool today? No.
[01:14:32] Speaker 26:
Very dirty pool.
[01:14:41] Speaker 09:
1536.
[01:14:48] Commonwealth:
Your Honor.
[01:14:49] Speaker 15:
Yes.
[01:14:50] Commonwealth:
Could the Commonwealth request that identification D is read into the record? Sure.
[01:14:57] Speaker 15:
Sir George, from time to time I will read you what are stipulations. They're simply agreements between the parties. I sometimes say they're facts you can take to the bank. Mr. Parties agreement. I'm going to read such a stipulation now, marked for identification as Exhibit D for ID. At 518 a.m. on Saturday, January 7, 2023, Passive Police Detective Harrison Schmidt received an email from RichardWalker9984 at gmail.com, which stated, we have the so-named Anna Walsh with us here. We had a deal worth $127,000. She messed up. We have her here with us. And if she doesn't pay the money, then she'll never be back. And we know that the police and the FBI are involved. Good luck finding us. Detective Schmidt received a second email from RichardWalker9984 at gmail.com, which stated, here is Anna Walsh. Unless she pay the money we deal, she isn't coming back, comma, comma. Thanks and good luck. The second email had an image of a woman who was not on a Walsh. And using an image search, police found the image on istockphoto.com under, quote, kidnapped stock photos, end quote. On January 7th, 2023, police obtained a search warrant for data associated with the account RichardWalker9984 at gmail.com. The search warrant was sent to Google, and investigators learned that the internet protocol address, the IP address, with the Richard Walker 9984 email account, geolocated to Nigeria, and no IP addresses located in the United States were associated with the account that sent the Richard Walker 9984 at gmail.com email. The Commonwealth is not a legend that Brian Walsh sent the Richard Walker 9984 at gmail.com email.
[01:17:29] Commonwealth:
Thank you, Your Honor. So, Sergeant, a couple questions about that interview. There's mention of an application Viber. Could you tell us what that is, if you know?
[01:17:43] Witness:
It's a messaging application.
[01:17:45] Commonwealth:
And there's also mentioning of WhatsApp. Do you understand what that is?
[01:17:49] Witness:
Yes, that's also a communication app.
[01:17:51] Commonwealth:
There was mentioning of a person named Abdullah. Do you know his name?
[01:17:56] Witness:
Yes, Abdullah Al-Mutari.
[01:17:58] Commonwealth:
And what is his relationship to Anna Walsh?
[01:18:02] Witness:
A previous co-worker from the hospitality industry.
[01:18:05] Commonwealth:
There was also mention of Peter Kirby. What is his relationship to the Walshs?
[01:18:10] Witness:
A family friend.
[01:18:13] Commonwealth:
During the interview, a dog can be heard barking. Where was the dog located in the home?
[01:18:18] Witness:
in the crates in that sunken-in family room.
[01:18:23] Commonwealth:
And you had the opportunity to be at the home a few times between the 4th and the 7th. What issues did you ever have with the dog?
[01:18:31] Speaker 10:
None.
[01:18:36] Commonwealth:
There was also mention of the pool today. What was going on at the pool that day?
[01:18:41] Witness:
During that wide-scale search, we had drained the pool to get a better look at it.
[01:18:47] Commonwealth:
Now, After January 6th, when the Cohasset Police Department had a press conference, what happened to your voicemail and email?
[01:19:01] Witness:
I was inundated with messages and tips from the public.
[01:19:05] Commonwealth:
Why is it that your voicemail and email were inundated?
[01:19:08] Witness:
I was the point of contact for any information, so my department email and phone were listed and disseminated to the news and social media.
[01:19:18] Commonwealth:
And was Richard Walker email one of those things that came into you after that press conference?
[01:19:25] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[01:19:26] Commonwealth:
Now, Ms. Gilman, could we have what was marked yesterday as Exhibit 44? Sir, do you recognize Exhibit 44?
[01:19:43] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[01:19:44] Commonwealth:
And where is this in relation to the house?
[01:19:48] Witness:
If you're standing in the backyard with the house to your rear, you'd be looking at like the back right corner of the fenced-in portion of the yard. That's the shed.
[01:19:58] Commonwealth:
What's on the other side of the fence?
[01:20:00] Witness:
A neighboring house.
[01:20:04] Commonwealth:
Now, and Ms. Gilman, can we have exhibit 47 from yesterday? Sir, do you recognize this?
[01:20:15] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[01:20:15] Commonwealth:
This is what you said was the missing poster you created?
[01:20:19] Speaker 10:
Correct.
[01:20:21] Commonwealth:
Now, where did you get the information to create this poster?
[01:20:26] Witness:
I made this on Thursday, so I had the information from the patrol report, the NCIC missing persons form, and the information from the first interview with the defendant.
[01:20:38] Commonwealth:
Thank you. If you could take that down, Ms. Gilman. And when you were speaking to the defendant, what did you learn as far as Anna Walsh's maiden name or prior names?
[01:20:51] Witness:
There was a previous name of Nip, K-N-I-P-P, and a maiden name of Lubacek.
[01:20:59] Commonwealth:
Now, after that interview on the 7th, what did you do next as far as your investigation?
[01:21:09] Witness:
We continued to... Reach out to friends and family, gather more background information.
[01:21:17] Commonwealth:
And on the 8th, what did you do in the morning?
[01:21:21] Witness:
We briefed at Coasset Police Station a plan to execute a search warrant.
[01:21:26] Commonwealth:
And where were you going to execute the search warrant?
[01:21:28] Witness:
516 CJC Highway.
[01:21:31] Commonwealth:
What time did you have the opportunity to execute the search warrant? Around 9 a.m. And so when you execute the search warrant, who is with you?
[01:21:42] Witness:
Myself, I believe Chief Quigley, the day shift for patrol, the state police detectives, crime scene. I believe that was it.
[01:21:57] Commonwealth:
And who was at the house when you executed the search warrant?
[01:22:01] Witness:
The defendant and his children and Diana Walsh, the mother.
[01:22:04] Commonwealth:
And what did you do with those people in order to execute the search warrant?
[01:22:09] Witness:
We had reached out to Attorney Minor and she came to the scene and they all left with Attorney Minor.
[01:22:16] Commonwealth:
Now, did you ever have the opportunity to speak to Mr. Walsh again on January 8th of 2023?
[01:22:25] Witness:
Yes.
[01:22:25] Commonwealth:
Where did that conversation take place?
[01:22:27] Witness:
Attorney Minor's residence in Situate.
[01:22:30] Commonwealth:
And who was present for that conversation?
[01:22:33] Witness:
Attorney Minor, myself, Trooper DeChico, Trooper Proctor, the defendant and his children were in the other room.
[01:22:41] Commonwealth:
And have you had the opportunity to review a recording of that?
[01:22:45] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[01:22:45] Commonwealth:
And does that fairly and accurately depict the defendant's statements in that interview?
[01:22:56] Speaker 24:
Yes. Your Honor, I'll proceed to have this marked as the next exhibit, which today I believe
[01:23:05] Speaker 15:
Any additional objections beyond the ones I previously heard? No, Your Honor. The 1823 audio will be marked and is now in evidence as exhibit 62. And for the record, For those of you keeping track over there, the jump is as a result of the following. The parties agreed to, and a woman I had indicated, the Council now will indicate to you on the record, certain financial records that the parties agreed to have been admitted into evidence, and those records are now in evidence as exhibits 56, Thank you, Your Honor. Your Honor, with the Court's permission, may the Commonwealth play exhibit 62?
[01:24:20] Commonwealth:
You may. Thank you. Ms. Gilman?
[01:24:30] Speaker 26:
My name's Harrison Schmitt.
[01:24:31] Speaker 31:
I'm the detective in Coasset Police. Trooper Michael Proctor. Proficanity is on us. Hey, did you go to the Trooper Proctor's office?
[01:24:44] Speaker 40:
Tracy Neiner, attorney for Brian Long.
[01:24:49] Speaker 29:
So we're here at 244 Gannett Road in Situate. Did you see the time? Let's see, so the last time we spoke was yesterday, and I think we asked you to give us a good poem of where you went when you left your house on the first and you told us that you had gone to visit your mom, went out, ran a few errands for Whole Foods, CBS, and thank you, ma'am, you told us that the Whole Foods was across from the house, and your mom was in Paradise Lane, and CBS was in Daniels.
[01:25:29] Witness:
And what did you purchase then? It was probably an alcoholic white We know that you got back to
[01:26:37] Speaker 29:
Was it dark when you got there? Did you go anywhere else other than that? And on the second, the only place he went was the breasts.
[01:27:19] Speaker 33:
On the second.
[01:27:24] Speaker 29:
May I have a look at that? up to consent to the downloading of several of them. One of them being the iPad made up of Thomas's constituent, is that right? Previously you told us that Thomas had Do you use any other devices in the house?
[01:28:18] Witness:
I use my phone, and Anna and I only use our phones.
[01:28:34] Speaker 29:
So again, we downloaded the iPad mini, and you've been fairly consistent in your story. You were coming in the morning and you said that I give you this at 6, 6, 3 in the morning. So how do you explain at about 4.54 in the morning, the iPad in the area, because the iPad, I think, is querying the 10 best ways to dispose of it, even in the morning. At 4.54 in the morning.
[01:29:27] Witness:
I don't, I have no idea.
[01:29:29] Speaker 29:
Thomas is asleep.
[01:29:32] Witness:
Well, Thomas is in his room. With the iPad, it's obviously easier. I mean, I don't use an iPad, so that's really weird. He's six, right?
[01:29:43] Speaker 29:
Yeah. Maybe he does not have the... Is he the average intelligence for a six-year-old?
[01:29:50] Speaker 27:
Oh, no, I don't think so.
[01:29:52] Speaker 29:
Okay, but six-year-olds typically, I mean, I have a four-year-old who's... As I can't spell his last name, six is obviously way more advanced. the morning of the first that asked how to dispose of the body, how to get blood out of hardwood floors, how to dispose of the body in the trash, how to stop the body from decomposing, and how do you explain that? So you're not using that idea? Okay. On 11-6, right? That's what I believe, yeah. So, throughout the afternoon, on the 1st, when I was gone, the device continues to query how to get blood stains. Does the blood remove? Does the dishwasher remove blood from a knife?
[01:31:15] Speaker 31:
And so on and so forth. Sergeant, after that interview is over, what did you do?
[01:31:44] Witness:
We went back to the Coasset Police Station.
[01:31:47] Commonwealth:
If you could keep your voice up, sir.
[01:31:49] Witness:
We went back to the Coasset Police Station.
[01:31:51] Commonwealth:
And did you ever have the opportunity to see Mr. Walsh again that day?
[01:31:55] Witness:
Yes.
[01:31:55] Commonwealth:
About what time? About 4 p.m. And where was that?
[01:31:59] Witness:
At Attorney Miner's residence in Situate.
[01:32:01] Commonwealth:
And what did you do with him at that point in time?
[01:32:03] Witness:
I placed the defendant under arrest.
[01:32:05] Commonwealth:
Now, where was the defendant taken after you placed him under arrest?
[01:32:12] Witness:
The Coassa police station.
[01:32:14] Commonwealth:
And did you ever have the opportunity to see his hands on January 8th and January 9th?
[01:32:20] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[01:32:21] Commonwealth:
The Commonwealth would seek to publish what's been marked as Exhibit 48, which is File Number 7697.
[01:32:31] Speaker 15:
That's one of the previously admitted exhibits from yesterday morning, yes?
[01:32:34] Commonwealth:
Thank you, Your Honor.
[01:32:35] Speaker 15:
You may publish it.
[01:32:45] Commonwealth:
Sergeant, what is this?
[01:32:47] Witness:
That is a picture of the defendant's thumb.
[01:32:50] Commonwealth:
And if the Commonwealth could publish exhibit 49, which is file number 7701, also previously marked from yesterday, Your Honor. And Sergeant, what is this?
[01:33:01] Witness:
That is the picture of the defendant's thumb, and you can see the blue tile from the booking room floor in the background.
[01:33:09] Commonwealth:
Ms. Kilmuth, if you could take that down. Now, Sergeant, what did you do on January 9th in this matter?
[01:33:18] Witness:
I went to 300 Forest Street in Peabody.
[01:33:22] Commonwealth:
And about what time did you get to 300 Forest Street in Peabody?
[01:33:25] Witness:
Around dusk.
[01:33:27] Commonwealth:
And why were you there?
[01:33:29] Witness:
We had collected two dumpsters from the apartment complex at 330 Paradise Road. Those were transported to a transfer, like a trash transfer station in Peabody for examination.
[01:33:44] Commonwealth:
And so what were you doing? Well, so when you got to Peabody, about what time was it?
[01:33:50] Witness:
It was right around the beginning of dark.
[01:33:53] Commonwealth:
And who was there?
[01:33:55] Witness:
Myself, Detective Lieutenant Lopes, Lieutenant Tully, members of the SERT team, and other troopers.
[01:34:04] Commonwealth:
And Lieutenant Tully, he's with the state police opposed to Detective Lieutenant Lopes with Cohassin.
[01:34:09] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[01:34:10] Commonwealth:
OK. And so what were these state troopers doing, not Lieutenant Tully, but the other ones you just mentioned?
[01:34:18] Witness:
It's a big warehouse with trash lining on the walls. We had dumped the contents of the dumpsters in the warehouse. And we began searching the bags, bag by bag,
[01:34:33] Commonwealth:
And so what would you do with the bags when you searched them bag by bag?
[01:34:38] Witness:
The contents of the bags were opened. It was spread out on the ground. We'd look at the contents, see if it was important. If it was, those were moved to like a tarp or plastic or paper sheeting where they could be documented, photographed, collected as evidence.
[01:34:57] Commonwealth:
If the Commonwealth could publish exhibit 50 from yesterday, Your Honor, which would be file number HAS7025. You may. Sir, directing your attention, what is this?
[01:35:13] Witness:
This is a plastic sheeting.
[01:35:15] Commonwealth:
And can you see yourself in this photograph at all?
[01:35:20] Witness:
I can see my feet.
[01:35:21] Commonwealth:
Where are your feet located?
[01:35:23] Witness:
At the top of the frame.
[01:35:24] Commonwealth:
And if you could just tell us what you're wearing for footwear.
[01:35:28] Witness:
Brown leather boots and gray pants.
[01:35:31] Commonwealth:
And if the Commonwealth could have exhibit 51, which is file number 6810. So Sergeant, what are we looking at here as far as the process that you were describing?
[01:35:45] Witness:
So this is right when one of the bags was opened for examination. The contents was dumped out so we could look at it.
[01:35:54] Commonwealth:
And if we could go to exhibit 52, which is file 6867. Now, what are we looking at here in relation to the previous photograph?
[01:36:07] Witness:
Those are the contents moved to tarp and plastic and paper sheeting so they could be further examined.
[01:36:14] Commonwealth:
And the boots, do you know what brand those are?
[01:36:19] Witness:
Hunter boots.
[01:36:20] Commonwealth:
And Ms. Gilman, is it possible to zoom in on the white piece of paper underneath the purse? Sergeant, did you see that white piece of paper that night?
[01:36:35] Witness:
I did.
[01:36:35] Commonwealth:
What was that?
[01:36:36] Witness:
That's a COVID-19 vaccination card with the name Anna Walsh on it.
[01:36:41] Commonwealth:
If you could close out of that. Now, Sergeant, did you ever have the opportunity to review financial records in this matter?
[01:36:50] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[01:36:51] Commonwealth:
And you said that you had been working on that during your investigation, but you've also looked at them since then, isn't that correct?
[01:36:58] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[01:36:59] Commonwealth:
OK. At this point in time, Your Honor, the Commonwealth would ask to publish page six from exhibit 56, Apple Credit Union.
[01:37:10] Speaker 15:
You may publish that page, yes.
[01:37:13] Commonwealth:
Thank you.
[01:37:16] Speaker 15:
This is from the Apple Credit Union.
[01:37:18] Commonwealth:
Yes, your honor. Sergeant, do you see this statement?
[01:37:23] Witness:
Yes.
[01:37:25] Commonwealth:
Sergeant, what is the date for this statement?
[01:37:28] Witness:
The ending date is January 31st, 2023.
[01:37:33] Commonwealth:
And Sergeant, Ms. Gilman, if you could scroll down. Sergeant, do you remember what the outstanding balance was on the account?
[01:37:44] Witness:
I believe it was overdrawn by over $800.
[01:37:48] Commonwealth:
And Sergeant, regarding the payments on this account, do they bear any similarity to the other withdrawals on the other months?
[01:37:57] Witness:
Yes. What sales? Rockland FCU, that payment was reoccurring. PEPCO payments was reoccurring. Leader Bank Online was a reoccurring payment.
[01:38:13] Commonwealth:
And Your Honor, at this point in time, the Commonwealth would seek to publish page eight from exhibit 57, the Barclays JetBlue card.
[01:38:21] Speaker 15:
You may.
[01:38:22] Commonwealth:
Thank you, Your Honor. Sergeant, what is the date for this statement?
[01:38:35] Witness:
Statement period ending in January 17th, 2023.
[01:38:40] Commonwealth:
And what was the balance for this statement?
[01:38:44] Witness:
Statement balance as of 1-17-2023 is $2,145.69.
[01:38:48] Commonwealth:
And Ms. Gilman, Your Honor, if we could publish page 10 from the same exhibit.
[01:38:55] Speaker 15:
You may.
[01:38:56] Commonwealth:
Thank you. And Ms. Gilman, could you go down to the bottom? Sergeant, what did you see as far as activity on this card after December 31st?
[01:39:10] Witness:
None.
[01:39:12] Commonwealth:
Your honor, may we publish page four from exhibit 58 leader bank?
[01:39:19] Speaker 15:
May.
[01:39:19] Commonwealth:
Thank you. Sergeant, do you recognize this statement?
[01:39:31] Witness:
Yes.
[01:39:32] Commonwealth:
What is this for?
[01:39:33] Witness:
This is a mortgage payment for investment property.
[01:39:37] Commonwealth:
And do you see an address associated with it?
[01:39:46] Speaker 24:
Towards the bottom?
[01:39:49] Witness:
Yes, the collateral property is a condo at 35A Turdor Street unit, 35A-5 Lynn Mass.
[01:39:58] Commonwealth:
Sergeant, in the interviews you had with the defendant, there were discussions of properties. What other properties were there that Anna Walsh or the defendant had access to in Massachusetts?
[01:40:08] Witness:
There were Lynn rental properties.
[01:40:13] Commonwealth:
And if we could close out of this, and Your Honor, with the court's permission, may we publish page 45 of JP Morgan Chase, exhibit 60. I'm sorry, exhibit 59.
[01:40:22] Speaker 15:
Page 40.
[01:40:23] Commonwealth:
45.
[01:40:24] Speaker 15:
Page 45, you may.
[01:40:26] Commonwealth:
Thank you. Sergeant, what is this account?
[01:40:36] Witness:
This is the Chase Freedom Card.
[01:40:38] Commonwealth:
And when is the period ending for this account? Ms. Gilman, could you scroll down just a little? Under opening and closing date, what are those, sir?
[01:40:52] Witness:
The range is October 18th, 2022 to November 17th, 2022.
[01:40:58] Commonwealth:
And Ms. Gilman, could you scroll up? What was due on the account at that point in time after the November date?
[01:41:08] Witness:
$0.
[01:41:09] Commonwealth:
And with the court's permission, the Commonwealth would seek to publish page 47 of the same exhibit.
[01:41:14] Speaker 15:
You may.
[01:41:14] Commonwealth:
Thank you. Now, Sergeant, directing your attention to page 47 of the same exhibit, I'd like to ask some questions about October 30th. Do you see that entry on it?
[01:41:29] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[01:41:30] Commonwealth:
What is that state on October 30th?
[01:41:33] Witness:
A United flight was purchased on the 30th for November 23rd, 2022, from airport code IAD to airport code DUB.
[01:41:47] Commonwealth:
What is the date associated with that?
[01:41:49] Witness:
November 23rd, 2022.
[01:41:51] Commonwealth:
The next line down, sir?
[01:41:55] Witness:
Purchased on the same date of October 30th, a Air France flight. Departing airport code DUB to arriving CDG and then a connecting flight CDG to BEG.
[01:42:14] Commonwealth:
And the next line after that, sir. Oh, and by the way, what was the date associated with that airline?
[01:42:21] Witness:
That was 11-27-2022.
[01:42:22] Commonwealth:
The next line on October 30th, sir?
[01:42:29] Witness:
A flight from Lufthana. Airlines for the date of December 7th, 2022, leaving BEG to airport code FRA and then a connecting flight FRA to BOS.
[01:42:48] Commonwealth:
Do you know BOS's airport?
[01:42:50] Witness:
Boston Logan.
[01:42:52] Commonwealth:
Do you know IAD?
[01:42:53] Witness:
IAD is Dallas in Virginia.
[01:42:56] Commonwealth:
What is DUB?
[01:42:57] Witness:
Dublin in Ireland.
[01:42:59] Commonwealth:
What's CDG?
[01:43:01] Witness:
Charles de Gaulle in France.
[01:43:02] Commonwealth:
What's BEG?
[01:43:03] Witness:
Belgrade.
[01:43:05] Commonwealth:
What is FRA?
[01:43:07] Witness:
Frankfurt.
[01:43:08] Commonwealth:
Now, if the Commonwealth could publish page 97... One moment. Could the Commonwealth publish page 97? of this same exhibit, Your Honor?
[01:43:31] Speaker 15:
Page 97 of 59. Yes. Thank you.
[01:43:33] Commonwealth:
Thank you, Your Honor. Within this same exhibit, was there another credit card?
[01:43:40] Witness:
Yes.
[01:43:41] Commonwealth:
And what was this credit card called?
[01:43:43] Witness:
IHG Rewards.
[01:43:45] Commonwealth:
And looking at page 97, what is the balance owed on this credit card?
[01:43:52] Witness:
$2,690.97.
[01:43:54] Commonwealth:
And Ms. Gilman, could you scroll down? What is the closing date for that account?
[01:44:02] Witness:
January 23rd, 2023.
[01:44:05] Commonwealth:
And Ms. Gillen, could you scroll down some more? What is the name on that account?
[01:44:10] Witness:
Anna Walsh.
[01:44:11] Commonwealth:
Now, if the Commonwealth could publish page 25 of exhibit 60 from Liberty Bay.
[01:44:19] Speaker 15:
You may.
[01:44:35] Commonwealth:
Do you recognize this statement, sir?
[01:44:37] Witness:
Yes.
[01:44:37] Commonwealth:
What is this?
[01:44:39] Witness:
This is a Liberty Bay Credit Union statement ending in January 31, 2023.
[01:44:43] Commonwealth:
And who's the name on the statement?
[01:44:46] Witness:
Anna Walsh.
[01:44:47] Commonwealth:
And what is the balance on the statement?
[01:44:51] Witness:
$3,388.98.
[01:44:52] Commonwealth:
And do you see those withdrawals on January 3 and 4?
[01:45:00] Witness:
Yes.
[01:45:01] Commonwealth:
Do they have any similarities to other withdrawals and other statements within this exhibit?
[01:45:05] Witness:
Yes, the MLS property was reoccurring every three months and the WJ management and Great North prop were reoccurring monthly.
[01:45:15] Commonwealth:
If the Commonwealth could publish page 7 of exhibit 61, fidelity. You may. Thank you, Ron. Oh, page seven. Sir, with infidelity, how many accounts were there?
[01:45:47] Witness:
Two.
[01:45:48] Commonwealth:
And do you recognize page seven?
[01:45:51] Witness:
Yes, this is account ending in 5493, an IRA account.
[01:45:57] Commonwealth:
And who's the name on the IRA account?
[01:45:59] Witness:
Anna Walsh.
[01:46:00] Commonwealth:
And what is the date of the investment report?
[01:46:03] Witness:
February 1, 2023 to February 28, 2023.
[01:46:08] Commonwealth:
And what is the account value at that point in time?
[01:46:12] Witness:
$93,615.82.
[01:46:14] Commonwealth:
And if the Commonwealth finally, Your Honor, could publish page 118 from the same exhibit?
[01:46:20] Speaker 15:
You may.
[01:46:21] Commonwealth:
Thank you. What account is this, sir?
[01:46:26] Witness:
This is an individual investment account ending in 5491 for Anna Walsh.
[01:46:32] Commonwealth:
And what is the investment report date?
[01:46:35] Witness:
February 1, 2023 to February 28, 2023.
[01:46:40] Commonwealth:
And what is the account value?
[01:46:42] Witness:
$117,719.74. Can you take that down, Ms. Gilman?
[01:46:46] Commonwealth:
Your Honor, may I have a moment?
[01:46:51] Speaker 15:
You may.
[01:47:11] Commonwealth:
Your honor, at this point in time, could the Commonwealth ask that you read in G for identification? Another stipulation?
[01:47:19] Speaker 15:
Yes. May I have G, please? I don't mean to repeat to you what the stipulation is. I'll just read it now to you. Ryan Walsh was arraigned in United States District Court in Boston, Massachusetts on May 11, 2018. On April 1, 2021, Ryan Walsh led guilty to indictments of war, wire fraud, interstate transportation, or a scheme to defraud, and conducting an unlawful monetary transaction. On October 6, 2021, an initial sentencing hearing took place in the United States District Court. Brian Walsh was seeking a sentence of probation and restitution, while the government, through the United States Attorney's Office, was seeking a sentence which included incarceration of 30 to 37 months and restitution of approximately $475,000. In January 2023, Brian Walsh had not been sentenced on the federal charges. Brian Walsh was represented by a lawyer at all stages of the federal case.
[01:48:55] Commonwealth:
One last question, Your Honor.
[01:48:57] Speaker 24:
Sergeant, what are the closest hardware stores to 516 Chief Justice Cushing-Howard?
[01:49:03] Witness:
On Route 3A, to the north is Hingham Lumber, about a mile away, and to the south is Aubuchon Hardware, also in Cohasset, about a mile away.
[01:49:14] Commonwealth:
Nothing further, Your Honor.
[01:49:20] Speaker 15:
Any cross-examination?
[01:49:23] Witness:
Yes, Your Honor, thank you.
[01:49:24] Speaker 15:
You may proceed.
[01:49:26] Witness:
Good morning, sir.
[01:49:27] Witness:
Good morning, sir.
[01:49:28] Witness:
Those financial records that were just displayed to the jury,
[01:49:36] Witness:
It goes to the totality of the circumstances in the investigation. It gives us background and just an understanding.
[01:49:43] Speaker 21:
An understanding of what?
[01:49:47] Witness:
Of the entire investigation.
[01:49:52] Witness:
Well, what those records show, isn't it, is that there was a lot of automatic payments being made?
[01:50:02] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[01:50:04] Witness:
Those records do not show any withdrawals, reportedly by Mr. Brian Walsh, do they?
[01:50:14] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[01:50:20] Witness:
And for instance, those records that were related to the freedom card that you then told the jury about the indication of the flights and you identified DUB as double, Where did you get those records?
[01:50:37] Witness:
From Chase Freedom.
[01:50:39] Witness:
Okay. You didn't find those records in the home of Mr. Walsh, did you?
[01:50:46] Witness:
No.
[01:50:47] Witness:
And you didn't find those records then in the possession of Mr. Walsh, did you?
[01:50:54] Witness:
Can I explain?
[01:50:56] Witness:
Can you answer the question?
[01:50:58] Witness:
I can. What is it? Physically in his possession, no.
[01:51:10] Witness:
When you were talking and asking Mr. Walsh questions, both on January 4th, January 5th, and later on January 7th, and then on January 8th, he never once told you anything about Anna Walsh being in Dublin or he was suspecting that she was in Dublin or anything of the sort.
[01:51:30] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[01:51:39] Witness:
When you were talking to Mr. Walsh back on January 4th and January 5th, he forthrightly told you about the federal case, didn't he? Yes. And he told you that it was, I think he used the word integrity. He admitted that this was all his fault, correct?
[01:51:58] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[01:51:59] Witness:
And that stipulation that was just read to the jury about the federal case, that was the same case, wasn't it?
[01:52:05] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[01:52:06] Witness:
It was about painting fraud. involving Warhol paintings that were fraudulent, correct?
[01:52:13] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[01:52:16] Witness:
And as far as you know and based on your investigation that's gone on for some time now, other than that federal, there's no other federal case. Let me ask you.
[01:52:26] Witness:
I'm not aware of any other federal case.
[01:52:28] Witness:
And it'd be one of the things you would do as the lead detective in this case to make sure you knew about other pending federal cases or things like that, correct?
[01:52:37] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[01:52:40] Witness:
Let me just ask this. You told us that on January 8th, around 4 p.m., you returned, was it to Attorney Miner's home and placed Mr. Walsh under arrest?
[01:53:02] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[01:53:04] Witness:
And it's fair to say that once he was placed under arrest, is it fair to say that he remained in custody?
[01:53:10] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[01:53:11] Witness:
And so just getting to that Richard Walker stipulation, fair to say that one of those ransom notes that we had to hear about, that occurred after Mr. Walsh had been placed into custody, correct?
[01:53:28] Witness:
Yes, I believe it was February 10, the second one I received.
[01:53:32] Witness:
So even though the stipulation entered into evidence was that everybody agrees that Mr. Walsh had nothing to do with that Richard Walker tip. Nonetheless, you knew and the detectives knew early on, early on in this case, that that Richard Walker tip had nothing to do with Mr. Walsh, correct?
[01:54:02] Witness:
That was our understanding.
[01:54:08] Witness:
Now I want to focus your attention on what we heard on the January 8th interview. By the time you got to Tracy Miner's home, you and your colleagues had done an investigation on what's been referred to as a mini iPad, right?
[01:54:30] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[01:54:31] Witness:
And that mini iPad was associated with one of the sons, the oldest son, correct?
[01:54:37] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[01:54:39] Witness:
And when you listen to that recorder, when you listen to the questions that are posed to Mr. Walsh, and you ask him about that mini-pad, his demeanor changed, didn't it?
[01:54:53] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[01:54:55] Witness:
In fact, it's fair to say, isn't it? I don't want to mischaracterize, but he basically sounded, he looked and sounded sad, didn't he?
[01:55:03] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[01:55:08] Witness:
Because you were talking to him about his oldest son, his oldest son Minipad, right?
[01:55:14] Commonwealth:
Objection.
[01:55:16] Speaker 15:
Basis.
[01:55:19] Witness:
Overruled.
[01:55:22] Witness:
I'm sorry, can you repeat the question?
[01:55:24] Witness:
You were talking to him at the time about his son, oldest son's Minipad, correct?
[01:55:28] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[01:55:30] Witness:
And he basically answered you, I don't know anything about those searches, right?
[01:55:37] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[01:55:38] Speaker 20:
You've learned in your investigation of this case, haven't you?
[01:55:43] Witness:
That the searches that you were asking Mr. Walsh about at that time, those searches were not in fact inducted on the mini iPad. It was associated with his son, correct?
[01:55:59] Witness:
Yes, they were synced to that, but they did not occur on that iPad, is my understanding.
[01:56:03] Witness:
Right, so now your investigation was able to determine that whoever conducted those searches, of course your investigation revealed that it was Brian Walsh. He never used his young son's mini iPad to conduct any of those searches that we've heard about, correct?
[01:56:30] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[01:56:34] Witness:
And so when you asked him about that mini iPad along with his son, his demeanor changed and he looked sad, correct?
[01:56:42] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[01:56:51] Speaker 20:
Okay.
[01:56:56] Speaker 10:
Yes, sir.
[01:56:58] Witness:
Those two exhibits that were shown, exhibit 48 and 49, They showed what appeared to be cuts on the hands of Mr. Walsh, correct? Yes. You have no idea how those cuts occurred, please.
[01:57:10] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[01:57:11] Witness:
You don't have any idea when they occurred, do you?
[01:57:13] Witness:
Correct. I do know they occurred before the photo was taken, obviously.
[01:57:19] Speaker 21:
I'm sorry?
[01:57:20] Witness:
They occurred before the photo was taken, obviously.
[01:57:26] Speaker 21:
Yes, obviously.
[01:57:35] Witness:
So let me ask you a couple of questions about some of the things you testified to about yesterday. One of the things you testified to is at some point after going to the home and talking to Mr. Walsh on January 4th, you and I believe it was Detective Lawrence? Officer Greg Lawrence. OK, Lawrence. You went and you surveyed the interior and the exterior of the home.
[01:58:07] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[01:58:08] Witness:
And one of the things that you were doing was, as a trained law enforcement officer, you were looking for anything that might give you a clue or anything suspicious or anything like that.
[01:58:24] Speaker 10:
Correct.
[01:58:24] Witness:
And that's how you're trained.
[01:58:26] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[01:58:27] Witness:
And you're a very competent officer, right?
[01:58:32] Witness:
I think so.
[01:58:33] Witness:
And in this case, you exercised that competency, and when you saw, for instance, that Volvo out in the parking lot, you walked out there and you looked inside the Volvo, correct?
[01:58:45] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[01:58:46] Witness:
And is it fair to say that Mr. Walsh was with you at the same time?
[01:58:49] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[01:58:50] Witness:
And you made note, you told this jury about it, you made note that you saw a piece of plastic sheet in the back of that Volvo, correct? And you even made note of what you described as a seedling that had fallen down into that sheeting.
[01:59:06] Witness:
Yes, that's what I remember.
[01:59:08] Witness:
And eventually that sheeting was eventually seized, wasn't it?
[01:59:14] Witness:
I'm sorry, I didn't hear that.
[01:59:15] Speaker 20:
It was eventually seized? It was taken?
[01:59:18] Witness:
That plastic sheeting? Not to my knowledge.
[01:59:21] Witness:
Was there other plastic sheeting that was subsequently seized?
[01:59:25] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[01:59:25] Witness:
And did that subsequent? seized cheating that matched the cheating that you observed in the Volvo?
[01:59:34] Witness:
It looked familiar. I'm not aware of any scientific comparison from one cheating to the next.
[01:59:42] Witness:
OK. But I guess it's just fair to say that when you were looking around and you looked at that Volvo, Mr. Walsh didn't keep you from looking inside, did he?
[01:59:54] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[01:59:56] Witness:
Child, the child proof latches that we heard about yesterday. If we could have exhibit 34 brought up, photo number 7335. That's that door that you testified to yesterday.
[02:00:23] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:00:23] Witness:
That's the door to the basement?
[02:00:25] Speaker 10:
Correct.
[02:00:26] Witness:
The childhood latches are at the top of the door?
[02:00:29] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:00:30] Witness:
Anybody can undo those latches as long as they're tall enough to reach him?
[02:00:35] Witness:
I assume with the proper grip strength, yes.
[02:00:38] Witness:
Okay. And so any adult would probably release that plastic latch, correct?
[02:00:43] Witness:
Yes.
[02:00:43] Witness:
And as far as you know, on the door handle, there was no key lock or anything of the sort preventing somebody from going down into the basement?
[02:00:50] Witness:
I don't recall a key lock on that door.
[02:00:53] Witness:
And when you saw that door for the first time, was it open or shut? I don't recall. We heard some evidence yesterday about a hole in the ceiling in Mr. Walsh's bedroom, correct? Yes. I'm sorry, you can take that piece of it down. I apologize. Maybe we could see now exhibit 29, photograph 7319. Now that's the hole we're talking about, correct?
[02:01:38] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:01:40] Witness:
And is it your testimony that you saw that hole on January 4th, the first time you were taking a tour of the house?
[02:01:51] Witness:
I remember seeing it on the 5th and not being surprised by it.
[02:01:57] Witness:
I could have seen it, but I'm just not sure.
[02:02:00] Witness:
Yes, so I definitely remember it on the 5th, and I remember knowing that the ceiling tile was in the bottom drawer of that bureau or that nightstand. I don't explicitly remember seeing it on the 4th, but I believe I did just because I wasn't surprised by my seeing it on the 5th.
[02:02:19] Witness:
Okay. It's fair to say that when you talk about those ceiling pieces, they were stuffed in a drawer that was right there underneath the hall.
[02:02:26] Speaker 10:
Correct.
[02:02:27] Witness:
And it was Mr. Walsh who showed me where those pieces were.
[02:02:30] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:02:31] Witness:
And you didn't see anything on those pieces that raised any suspicion?
[02:02:34] Speaker 10:
No.
[02:02:35] Witness:
It's fair to say that when we look at this, it's as if we can see what sometimes is referred to a ceiling joist?
[02:02:43] Witness:
That's what it appears to be, yes.
[02:02:45] Witness:
OK. And between the ceiling joists is insulation?
[02:02:48] Witness:
Correct.
[02:02:49] Witness:
And it's as if the insulation is intact, the ceiling joists are intact, but the plaster fell down. Correct?
[02:02:57] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:02:58] Witness:
And it's fair to say that plaster falls down without any pressure on it, depending on what happened, correct?
[02:03:05] Witness:
Depending on the state of disrepair, possibly.
[02:03:08] Witness:
Okay. You have no idea how that whole occurred to you?
[02:03:11] Witness:
I believe in one of the audio recordings, the defendant states he goes up there and was walking around.
[02:03:15] Witness:
Okay. But you don't have any idea what he was walking around for?
[02:03:19] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[02:03:20] Witness:
And in fact, in that conversation, the context of that was that That occurred long before January 1st.
[02:03:28] Witness:
That was my presumption.
[02:03:30] Witness:
Presumption based on the context of the conversation?
[02:03:32] Witness:
Yes.
[02:03:42] Witness:
That insulation that we see, is it fair to say that what we're looking at is the paper wrapping that covers the fiberglass that forms the insulation?
[02:03:52] Witness:
Yes, the vapor barrier portion of the insulation.
[02:03:54] Witness:
And is it fair to say, do you know? Well, that's a terrible question. Do you know if the insulation that we're looking at in that exhibit, what color it is when you look at the fiberglass insulation?
[02:04:07] Witness:
I remember it being pink.
[02:04:08] Witness:
OK. And it's a pink color. Now, we saw some photographs of the basement of the Cohasset home, didn't we, yesterday? Correct? Yes. And in those photographs, it also showed photographs on the ceiling to the basement, correct? Correct. And that ceiling also had insulation, correct?
[02:04:29] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[02:04:29] Witness:
And that color of that insulation was also paint, correct? Correct. You talked about going down into the basement, and you saw some bags down there. You recall that?
[02:04:49] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:04:50] Witness:
Could we have exhibit number 33, photograph 7343? Well, I got the wrong number. I apologize. Well, I think I'll just ask questions. I apologize for all that. You went down into the basement?
[02:05:29] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:05:30] Witness:
Did Mr. Walsh go down in the basement with you?
[02:05:32] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:05:33] Witness:
You had some bags down there?
[02:05:36] Speaker 10:
I did.
[02:05:37] Witness:
And you didn't open the bags?
[02:05:39] Witness:
Correct.
[02:05:40] Witness:
But you pushed on the bags or touched the bags, didn't you?
[02:05:43] Witness:
Yeah, I manipulated it with my boot.
[02:05:44] Witness:
With your boot. And what did you think was in the bags?
[02:05:52] Witness:
Like a piece of a rug or like carpet sample sized.
[02:05:55] Witness:
OK. But you didn't look in the bag, correct?
[02:05:58] Witness:
Correct.
[02:05:58] Witness:
But based on your training and experience, you thought it was pieces of rub.
[02:06:02] Witness:
That's what I assumed.
[02:06:03] Witness:
OK. And this was on January 4th, wasn't it?
[02:06:11] Witness:
It was either the 4th or the 5th.
[02:06:12] Witness:
OK. Whether it's the 4th or the 5th, there were still bags down there in the basement that may have contained pieces of rub.
[02:06:20] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[02:06:21] Witness:
And Mr. Walsh was right with you when you were using your food to touch those bags, using your training experience, determined that it feels like they have rubbed pieces.
[02:06:32] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[02:06:37] Witness:
And down in that basement, those stairs, they're wood stairs, aren't they?
[02:06:41] Witness:
They are.
[02:06:42] Witness:
And did you notice the very bottom stair to the stairway to the basement that was cracked or broken?
[02:06:48] Witness:
Not at the time.
[02:06:51] Witness:
And, of course, the flooring for that basement that you entered, that was concrete, correct?
[02:06:56] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:07:05] Witness:
You were asking questions both yesterday and today about the pool that is in the rear part of the home, correct?
[02:07:10] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:07:11] Witness:
And at one point, you looked at the pool that had water in it, and then subsequently it had been drained, correct?
[02:07:17] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:07:18] Witness:
And as far as you know, nothing of any significance was found in that pool, correct? Correct. And in fact, you would be interested to determine if there was any evidence that a substance like blood had been placed in that pool. That'd be one of the things you'd be curious about, correct?
[02:07:34] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:07:35] Witness:
And after you and your fellow officers had uncovered the searches that we've heard some about, You're aware of a search, aren't you, that was found on the map book that talked about something about how you measure blood in a pool or some words to that effect? Are you aware of that?
[02:08:10] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:08:11] Witness:
And so there was never anything found of any significance in the pool, was there?
[02:08:17] Witness:
Not that I'm aware of.
[02:08:18] Witness:
And in fact, I think it was, you talked about a canine surge in the back area, correct?
[02:08:25] Witness:
Yes.
[02:08:26] Witness:
And that canine is a human sent canine, correct?
[02:08:29] Witness:
It's a patrol and tracking dog.
[02:08:33] Witness:
And it didn't hit on, if that's the proper term, it did not hit on anything in the backyard. What sort?
[02:08:40] Witness:
I believe the canine was on the outside portion of that fenced in backyard doing the track.
[02:08:49] Witness:
it didn't hit on anything significant or related to your investigation of this case?
[02:08:55] Witness:
No.
[02:09:10] Witness:
Now, you walked through the house, you already told us, correct?
[02:09:17] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:09:17] Witness:
You walked through it. at least twice, one on January 4th and then on January 5th.
[02:09:23] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:09:24] Witness:
And you didn't see anything that seemed suspicious, correct?
[02:09:28] Speaker 10:
Correct.
[02:09:29] Witness:
And it's fair to say that, quote, you're sensitive to that, correct, based on your training and experience? Yes. But you well know, don't you, that subsequently, multiple criminals from the Mass State Police then arrived at that house sometime after or on January 8th of 2023, correct?
[02:09:53] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:09:53] Witness:
And they were there for more than just two days, weren't they?
[02:09:58] Witness:
It was more than one day. It went into the second day at least.
[02:10:02] Witness:
And they went over every single room and item in that co-house at home, didn't they?
[02:10:10] Witness:
That is my presumption.
[02:10:13] Witness:
Okay. And so even though When you, as a trained and experienced officer, walked through that house a couple of times and didn't see anything, still there was trained criminalists that came to the house to conduct testing and searching for anything that might be significant, correct?
[02:10:34] Witness:
I'm sorry, can you repeat that?
[02:10:35] Witness:
There was trained criminalists that came to the house to look for anything that might be significant related to the investigation that was ongoing.
[02:10:45] Speaker 09:
That is correct.
[02:11:06] Witness:
I want to ask you some questions about The media use the message. There's no such thing as something called iMessenger, is there?
[02:11:32] Witness:
We're familiar with iMessages. Right. Apple to Apple communication.
[02:11:36] Witness:
Right. So my question is rather simple. There's no such thing called iMessenger, correct?
[02:11:46] Witness:
At that direct quote, not that I'm aware of.
[02:11:48] Witness:
Okay. And when you were talking to Mr. Walsh on January 4th, he used the term iMessenger, didn't he?
[02:12:05] Witness:
It was either I messenger or I messages.
[02:12:09] Witness:
Well, you were asked about that when you testified before the grand jury.
[02:12:17] Witness:
I don't recall, likely.
[02:12:19] Witness:
Well, you recall that at the grand jury, based on a series of questions, you determined and stated, in part, that when Mr. Walsh was talking about I messenger, He was really talking about Facebook messaging.
[02:12:41] Witness:
The context of that portion of the interview did seem as if it was because we're on the Facebook subject and social media subject.
[02:12:51] Witness:
OK. And when he was talking to you and saying, well, some messages would come up on his phone that were intended for Anna Walsh, He was talking about, quote, I messenger. That's the phrase he used, correct?
[02:13:11] Witness:
I believe so.
[02:13:12] Witness:
And then messenger, once again, has to do with Facebook, correct?
[02:13:19] Witness:
That was my presumption from the context of the conversation.
[02:13:23] Witness:
And so you are unaware, as you sit here today, that there is any forensic evidence that Mr. Walsh ever saw the messages or any messages that may have occurred between Anna Walsh and one person named William Faskell, correct?
[02:13:46] Witness:
Can you repeat the wording of that just so I have it clear?
[02:13:50] Witness:
You are unaware of any forensic evidence that establishes that Mr. Walsh saw high messages that may have been sense between Anna Walsh and William Fessler.
[02:14:09] Witness:
I don't recall any digital forensics related to what you're describing.
[02:14:15] Witness:
OK. And in fact, are you aware of the use of messenger in the context of Facebook?
[02:14:25] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:14:26] Witness:
And is it fair to say, just correct me if I'm wrong, Somebody can friend somebody on Facebook and then they can trade messenger communication, correct?
[02:14:39] Witness:
That's my understanding, yes.
[02:14:40] Witness:
And anybody who is a friend will see those messenger communications and can respond to them?
[02:14:48] Witness:
In the context of Facebook?
[02:14:50] Witness:
Yes, in the context of Facebook.
[02:14:52] Witness:
Messages, my understanding is messages between people would be only between the people that are included in that message.
[02:15:00] Witness:
Well, when you talk about messenger, are you talking about messengers? The format used on Facebook?
[02:15:05] Witness:
Facebook Messenger, yes.
[02:15:08] Witness:
It's fair to say that if someone's trying to hide an affair, they don't communicate using Facebook Messenger that might be open to people that they don't want to find out about an affair. Objection.
[02:15:23] Speaker 15:
Sustained.
[02:15:31] Witness:
You are unaware, as you sit here today, of any forensic evidence that indicates that Mr. Walsh saw any Facebook messenger communications between Anna Walsh and William Fastow, aren't you?
[02:15:51] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[02:16:04] Witness:
In your interview and your questioning of Mr. Walsh, during your questioning of Mr. Walsh, you were present with others, correct?
[02:16:21] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:16:22] Witness:
But sometimes when the jury heard that questioning, it wasn't you asking the questions. It was other officers, including Trooper Pachito, correct?
[02:16:31] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:16:33] Witness:
But during those questioning, you were asking, and when I say you, I mean you or your colleagues, you were asking Mr. Walsh for names of people that might be helpful, correct? Yes. And he gave you a number of names, people who he knew Anna may be friends with in DC, and names of people that she might be friends with in Massachusetts, correct?
[02:16:56] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[02:16:59] Witness:
And one of the names that he gave you was William Fastow, correct?
[02:17:03] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:17:04] Witness:
And you are aware of the fact that William Fastow sold the million dollar townhouse to Anna Walsh and Brian Walsh, correct?
[02:17:16] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:17:18] Witness:
And when Mr. Walsh gave you the name of William Fastow, he didn't sound angry, did he?
[02:17:27] Witness:
He did not.
[02:17:28] Witness:
He didn't say anything pejorative about Mr. Fasco, did he? Correct. And before that occurred, you or your fellow officers had made it clear by asking Mr. Walsh questions of whether he knew anything about an affair or affairs that Anna Walsh might be involved in.
[02:17:55] Speaker 10:
Yes, we asked about that.
[02:17:56] Witness:
And you asked him about it more than once.
[02:17:58] Speaker 10:
Correct.
[02:17:59] Witness:
And you were asking about it because it could be something that you'd use in your investigation, correct?
[02:18:05] Speaker 10:
Yes.
[02:18:06] Witness:
And by the nature and the context of your investigation, you were making it clear that, well, an affair could be some evidence that could be either good or bad in our investigation.
[02:18:22] Witness:
Potentially.
[02:18:24] UNKNOWN:
Right.
[02:18:26] Witness:
Anybody who's trying to hide the fact that they knew about an affair that could be bad evidence, you wouldn't expect them to give you the name of a person that they knew was having an affair with their wife. Jackson.
[02:18:39] Speaker 13:
Sustained.
[02:18:41] Witness:
Well, isn't that part of your training experience, officer, that you don't expect people to give you harmful information when you're asking them questions? Jackson. Sustained. In any event, You had made it clear to Mr. Walsh that evidence of an affair could be either good or bad, correct?
[02:19:04] Witness:
Do you repeat that?
[02:19:04] Witness:
But you made it clear, you and your colleagues, in the multiple questions about an affair, that evidence of an affair between Anna and somebody else could be good or bad evidence.
[02:19:18] Witness:
I don't recall speaking about an affair being good or bad.
[02:19:24] Witness:
In any event. We can all agree that he just gave you the name of William Fastow in the context of anybody that she may know, Anna, may know in the DC area, correct?
[02:19:37] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[02:19:37] Witness:
Along with other names, correct? Correct. On January 7th, during the interview of Mr. Walsh, he was told, and the jury has heard this, that obviously, quote, obviously, with Anna Misson, you know, the public and many people, they're going to have their suspicions about you and whether you did something to Anna. That was told to Mr. Walsh on January 7th, wasn't it?
[02:20:36] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[02:20:40] Witness:
In fact, the point of that question was, if you were warning Mr. Walsh, the people are going to suspect him, correct?
[02:20:50] Witness:
It was the topic of discussion.
[02:20:52] Witness:
OK. And so it's true, isn't it? When something happens like a missing person, people don't believe somebody that they think might be responsible for the missing person, correct?
[02:21:03] Commonwealth:
Objection.
[02:21:04] Speaker 15:
I'll have the question back.
[02:21:07] Witness:
I'm sorry.
[02:21:08] Speaker 15:
I'll have the question back. Sorry about that. I'm sorry. New question.
[02:21:16] Speaker 21:
Oh, I'm sorry.
[02:21:42] Speaker 15:
Could I hear that? No. If I was supposed to.
[02:21:47] Witness:
Maybe I'll do the best thing to do is withdraw the question and start over.
[02:21:51] Speaker 15:
Start another one. Thank you.
[02:21:58] Witness:
You are warning Mr. Walsh that people weren't going to believe him.
[02:22:05] Witness:
I didn't make that statement, so I was not warning him that.
[02:22:08] Witness:
OK, but you were there with your colleagues, correct?
[02:22:10] Witness:
Yes.
[02:22:11] Witness:
And your colleague, from the context of it, you understand that your colleague was telling Mr. Walsh, people aren't going to believe you, so they're going to be suspicious.
[02:22:24] Witness:
I don't know if it was under the context of people aren't going to believe you, but we were discussing the subject that he may people may suspect him. And I remember he said that his attorney exposed him to that.
[02:22:43] Witness:
OK. But regardless of what his attorney told him, when it was told to Mr. Walsh, obviously with Anna missing, you know the public and many people, they're going to have this suspicion about you and whether you did something to Anna, correct? Yes. As an experienced police officer, you know that to sometimes be true, correct?
[02:23:15] Witness:
Sometimes.
[02:23:15] Witness:
People don't believe you when you say something happened, correct?
[02:23:22] Speaker 15:
overruled, but I am having a little hard time. I don't know if it's the monitor or the tone or the largeness of this room, so keep your voice up. And if you can on the microphone, I know you'd like to move around. Maybe I should just stay right here. It's all right. You can move around. I just need you to keep your voice up.
[02:23:36] Witness:
Thank you, Judge. You know, sir, that in investigations, for instance, for a missing person, people don't believe the person that they might think is responsible, correct?
[02:23:53] Witness:
I've always been under the premise of trust but verify.
[02:23:57] Witness:
Trust but verify. Okay. That's all I have. Thank you, sir.
[02:24:16] Speaker 15:
Redirect. No, Your Honor. The witness may step down.
[02:24:20] Witness:
Thank you, Your Honor.
[02:24:28] Speaker 15:
Commonwealth may call its next witness.
[02:24:34] Clerk:
Commonwealth College Trooper Nicholas Garino.
[02:25:04] Speaker 30:
Good morning, sir.
[02:25:26] Speaker 15:
And you may proceed. Thank you so much, Your Honor.
[02:25:30] Clerk:
Good morning.
[02:25:32] Clerk:
Could you please state your name for the record and spell your last name, sir?
[02:25:36] Clerk:
Nicholas Garino, G-U-A-R-I-N-O.
[02:25:40] Clerk:
And how are you employed, sir?
[02:25:41] Clerk:
I'm a trooper with the Massachusetts State Police.
[02:25:43] Clerk:
And how long have you been a trooper?
[02:25:46] Clerk:
A little over 10 years now.
[02:25:48] Clerk:
And what is your current assignment?
[02:25:51] Clerk:
Currently assigned to the Norfolk County District Attorney's Office.
[02:25:54] Clerk:
And how long have you been assigned there?
[02:25:56] Clerk:
November 2019, so six years-ish, about that.
[02:26:01] Clerk:
And what are your responsibilities at the Norfolk County District Attorney's Office?
[02:26:06] Clerk:
I do digital forensics and I'm a sexual assault investigator, as well as assist on homicide cases and narcotics cases.
[02:26:15] Clerk:
Trooper, you're currently on a medical leave due to a work-related injury, is that correct?
[02:26:19] Clerk:
Yes, that's correct.
[02:26:21] Clerk:
And can you tell this jury about your educational background?
[02:26:25] Clerk:
Yes, I went to Westfield State College. I have two bachelor's degrees in criminal justice and mass communications.
[02:26:33] Clerk:
And can you also tell the jury about any kind of specialized training that you have in forensic examinations in order to be a forensic examiner?
[02:26:42] Clerk:
So I've taken numerous Celebrite classes, their 40-hour certification courses, as well as other online trainings with National White Collar Crime and Magna Forensics, which is another forensic company, and Burla Motor Vehicle Forensics.
[02:27:00] Clerk:
So I'm going to ask you a little bit about those. What is Celebrite?
[02:27:06] Clerk:
Celebrite is specialized software and hardware to download and extract data from digital devices.
[02:27:17] Clerk:
And Celebrite is the name of the company?
[02:27:19] Speaker 07:
Yes, it is.
[02:27:21] Clerk:
Okay. And is that a private company?
[02:27:24] Speaker 07:
Yes, they are.
[02:27:26] Clerk:
And what is Magnet Forensics?
[02:27:30] Clerk:
Magna Forensics is also a forensic company to download and extract digital devices as well.
[02:27:37] Clerk:
OK. And do you have certifications from any of the companies?
[02:27:42] Clerk:
Yes. I've taken four or five of their classes. CCO, CCPA, which is their extraction software. They teach you how to use it and extract devices. Celebrite Mobile Forensics, their Cert F class, which is to repair and fix digital devices and cell phones. So if you have something that breaks, you can still get the data from it. CASA, which is their advanced database software class to go into the databases of the software, the devices we get. And also CAF, which is Celebrite Apple Forensics Fundamentals, I believe is the acronym, for Apple devices and MacBooks.
[02:28:34] Clerk:
So you received certifications for all of those trainings?
[02:28:37] Clerk:
Yes, I did.
[02:28:38] Clerk:
OK. And how do you get the training? How do you get the certification from the training?
[02:28:44] Clerk:
So it's a 40-hour, week-long course in person with book learning and then hands-on training. And then at the end of the week, you take a test to show proficiency. And if you pass, you get the certification.
[02:28:59] Clerk:
And you were able to pass those?
[02:29:00] Clerk:
Yes.
[02:29:02] Clerk:
Do you have specialized training for Apple products?
[02:29:06] Clerk:
Yes, that's the CAF class that I took.
[02:29:09] Clerk:
OK. So prior to being a Massachusetts state trooper, did you have any law enforcement background?
[02:29:15] Clerk:
Yes, I was a North police officer for just under 11 years.
[02:29:20] Clerk:
And any military background?
[02:29:22] Clerk:
Yes, I was in the Army National Guard for six, seven years.
[02:29:27] Clerk:
And have you previously testified about examination of digital forensics?
[02:29:32] Speaker 07:
Yes, I have.
[02:29:34] Clerk:
Thank you. Your Honor, would this be a time that you'd like me to stop before I begin the full examination for the break? Sure.
[02:29:45] Speaker 15:
Mr. Duras, we're going to take the morning break and we'll see you back in about 20 to 30 minutes. All rise for the court, please.
[02:29:53] Speaker 16:
Close your notebooks, follow me.
[02:30:32] Speaker 15:
Does anyone need anything before I step off the bench? Seeing nothing. Have a good break.
[02:32:17] UNKNOWN:
. . . . you
[02:35:52] Speaker 36:
.
[02:36:04] UNKNOWN:
. . .
[02:37:57] Speaker 35:
.
[02:38:12] UNKNOWN:
. you . . you you you you Thank you. . . you . . . .
[03:00:10] Speaker 24:
This is the right location.
[03:00:39] Speaker 30:
When it's back in session, you may be seated.
[03:00:46] Clerk:
You may proceed. Thank you very much, your honor. Were you working on Sunday, January 8th, 2023?
[03:00:59] Clerk:
Yes, I was.
[03:01:01] Clerk:
And were you assisting with the execution of a search warrant at 516 Chief Justice Cushing Highway in Cohasset?
[03:01:07] Clerk:
Yes.
[03:01:09] Clerk:
And what was your assignment at that execution of the search warrant?
[03:01:13] Clerk:
I was assisting with the search of the home, and if any digital devices were located, I was to take them and put them into evidence bags and then hold onto them to transport back to the DA's office.
[03:01:26] Clerk:
And what digital devices in general did you seize that day?
[03:01:32] Clerk:
There were three MacBooks, two iPhones, and three iPads.
[03:01:38] Clerk:
Thank you. And were pictures taken during the execution of the search warrant?
[03:01:42] Clerk:
Yes, there was a member of Crime Scene Services there photographing where we found items.
[03:01:48] Clerk:
Your Honor, at this time, I'd like to show pictures and publish them to the jury. They've been previously marked and agreed to by the defense. How many? It's a very good question, Your Honor. Number 63. through 78, so what reporter has been nice enough to count for me, and we believe that's 16.
[03:02:18] Speaker 15:
All right, so 16 photos, and they are all of digital devices, or electronic devices, or they have other things as well?
[03:02:27] Clerk:
They are of the electronic devices in the home, and then of just the electronic devices separately.
[03:02:32] Speaker 15:
All right. And the defense has agreed to those? Yes. All right, great. They're now in evidence as items. Exhibits 63 through 78, now in evidence.
[03:02:49] Clerk:
Thank you very much, Your Honor. At this time, I'd like to have Exhibit 63, 7179. Thank you. Triple Grino, can you tell me what that is a photograph of?
[03:03:13] Clerk:
Yes, this is the kitchen area. On the kitchen table, there's a red iPhone 13 mini and an Apple iPad. That's the 6 mini.
[03:03:26] Clerk:
Ms. Gilman, can you zoom in?
[03:03:31] Clerk:
Yeah. Yeah, iPhone, iPad 6 mini. Thank you.
[03:03:33] Clerk:
Thank you very much. And is there a cover on the phone?
[03:03:37] Clerk:
Yes, is the green cover and you can see the red at the charging port.
[03:03:42] Clerk:
Thank you very much. I'd ask for the next exhibit, that being 64-7208. Can you tell me what this is a photograph of?
[03:03:56] Clerk:
This is the, if you want to call it a dining room or Eden Nook on the table. There's two MacBooks and a third inside that Manila folder.
[03:04:06] Clerk:
Ms. Gilman, I'd ask that you zoom in on this, please. So Trippacrino, can you explain that, please?
[03:04:15] Clerk:
Yes. So the bottom left, there's a gray MacBook. Next to that is another pinkish MacBook. And inside the Manoa folder with the charging cable, there's another MacBook inside that.
[03:04:30] Clerk:
Thank you. I'd ask for the next exhibit, that being exhibit 65. 7414. What is this, Trooper?
[03:04:43] Clerk:
This is that pinkish MacBook that was inside the Manila folder.
[03:04:49] Clerk:
That was on the dining room table?
[03:04:51] Speaker 07:
Yes, that's correct.
[03:04:52] Clerk:
Thank you. And these are all where you initially found those devices?
[03:04:57] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[03:04:59] Clerk:
Thank you. Looking at the next exhibit, exhibit 66, 7304, could I please have that? What is this a photograph of, Trooper?
[03:05:15] Clerk:
This is the upstairs master bedroom. On the bed, there's the iPhone SE that's plugged into the wall.
[03:05:27] Clerk:
And could you zoom in, please? And is that how you found that device?
[03:05:35] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[03:05:36] Clerk:
Thank you. Looking at exhibit 67, 63, I'm sorry, 7637, could you please show that? What is this a photograph of?
[03:05:52] Clerk:
This was an Apple iPad, I believe it was ninth gen version. The crib was over it. We could see it stuck under the crib, so we just pulled it out so it could be photographed better.
[03:06:05] Clerk:
Could I now please have exhibit 31, which is already in evidence? What is this a photograph of Trooper?
[03:06:16] Clerk:
This was another Apple iPad that was in the, I believe it was the upstairs children's bedroom.
[03:06:25] Clerk:
Could I please have exhibit 7, I'm sorry, exhibit 68, photo 7436. Trooper, could you tell me what this is?
[03:06:37] Clerk:
That's the same iPad. We just opened the case to show that the screen had been damaged.
[03:06:45] Clerk:
What did you do with those items after you identified them in the house at the search warrant?
[03:06:52] Clerk:
So I placed these items into brown evidence bags and put the information on the front of the bag. And then once we had finished doing the search of the home, I transported all of these items back to the Norfolk DA's office to our digital evidence lab.
[03:07:08] Clerk:
And what is the digital evidence lab at the Norfolk District Attorney's office?
[03:07:12] Clerk:
So at the DA's office, we have a secure digital evidence lab that's key card and it has an alarm on the door. So only select few can get in there so we can store digital evidence to keep it powered on or so we don't lose any information.
[03:07:29] Clerk:
What is in the lab itself?
[03:07:33] Clerk:
There's two forensic machines, our secure server, and a third computer, and then as well as a Mac PC computer, and our gray key.
[03:07:49] Clerk:
Who specifically has access to that lab?
[03:07:53] Clerk:
At that time, it was myself, Trooper Connor Keefe, and the civilian director of our lab, Samantha Vogt.
[03:08:00] Clerk:
And what did you do next after you got to the lab?
[03:08:05] Clerk:
The items were photographed and we created a, with our case management for the digital elements, we created a case number for it.
[03:08:12] Clerk:
What was that case number?
[03:08:14] Clerk:
20-23-003. Then what happened? With the devices themselves. before you looked at the devices themselves? Oh, yeah. So obviously we had all these devices. We had to write search warrants. And once the search warrants were signed, then we were able to process the digital items.
[03:08:39] Clerk:
So you wrote search warrants for the contents of the devices?
[03:08:41] Clerk:
That's correct.
[03:08:43] Clerk:
And when were those search warrants signed for the contents of the devices?
[03:08:48] Clerk:
January 10th of 2023.
[03:08:52] Clerk:
I now want to show you photographs and ask if you can identify, well, I want to show you those so that you can identify them for the jury. Looking at what's been marked as exhibit 69. What is this?
[03:09:11] Clerk:
So this is the black iPhone SE. On the back is our label that we created. It says 2023, 00, 03 is an extra zero. Underscore one showing that's the first item of this case.
[03:09:25] Clerk:
And 70 next, please.
[03:09:29] Clerk:
This is the front of that same iPhone.
[03:09:32] Clerk:
Going to 71.
[03:09:37] Clerk:
This is the gray MacBook, item number three, you can see the underscore three, and it says the model and serial number.
[03:09:45] Clerk:
72.
[03:09:49] Clerk:
Just a wider version of the same MacBook.
[03:09:52] Clerk:
Ms. Gilman, 73, please.
[03:09:57] Clerk:
This looks kind of gold, but I believe this is the same gray MacBook, just the cover.
[03:10:03] Clerk:
Ms. Gilman, if you could now go to 74.
[03:10:08] Clerk:
This is the iPhone 13 mini, item number five.
[03:10:13] Clerk:
And the case has been taken off of that now?
[03:10:15] Clerk:
That's correct.
[03:10:16] Clerk:
75, please, Ms. Gilman.
[03:10:20] Clerk:
And that is the front of the device.
[03:10:21] Clerk:
76, please.
[03:10:25] Clerk:
Let's just show that the phone is the passcode. It's locked.
[03:10:33] Clerk:
Same device.
[03:10:34] Clerk:
Same device, yes.
[03:10:35] Clerk:
77, please.
[03:10:38] Clerk:
Again, front of the phone showing that it was still active and getting messages.
[03:10:47] Clerk:
N78, please.
[03:10:50] Clerk:
This is the Apple iPad Mini 6, I believe, item number 7. It says, again, shows the model and serial number of the device.
[03:11:03] Clerk:
You can take that down, Ms. Gilman. So all of those devices and all of the devices that you see is pursuant to a search warrant at the Walsh home at 516 Chief Justice Highway in Cohasset were all Apple products, is that correct?
[03:11:21] Speaker 07:
Yes, that's correct.
[03:11:23] Clerk:
And what are Apple devices?
[03:11:27] Clerk:
Apple devices, they're just a brand of digital devices, phones, MacBooks, iPads, they're all electronic devices.
[03:11:35] Clerk:
That's the manufacturer?
[03:11:37] Clerk:
That's correct.
[03:11:38] Clerk:
What is an Apple ID?
[03:11:41] Clerk:
So the Apple ID is a personalized ID for your Apple devices that can be used to download apps, go to the app store, download music, movies, whatever you please.
[03:11:56] Clerk:
What does a person use their Apple ID for?
[03:12:01] Clerk:
As I said, to download items, set up the accounts, It's usually an email address and then they're able to sync other devices with it if need be.
[03:12:12] Clerk:
Can a person have more than one Apple ID?
[03:12:16] Clerk:
Registered to a device, yes.
[03:12:20] Clerk:
How can an Apple device be secured?
[03:12:25] Clerk:
Either Face ID or four or six digit passcode or alphanumeric as well.
[03:12:34] Clerk:
What is a web browser?
[03:12:36] Clerk:
The web browser is whatever program you're using to view the internet, whether it be Microsoft Edge, Safari, Google Chrome.
[03:12:47] Clerk:
You mentioned Safari. What specifically is Safari?
[03:12:50] Clerk:
So Safari is Apple's web browser that they have installed on all their devices.
[03:13:00] Clerk:
Can other web browsers be used with Apple devices?
[03:13:04] Speaker 05:
Yes.
[03:13:06] Clerk:
So I want to talk now about forensically examining devices. When did you begin forensically extracting or making forensic copies of the devices that you seized from the house with the search warrant?
[03:13:25] Clerk:
After the search warrants were signed, the 10th we began extracting. We're limited to one gray key machine, so we have to place one on it, download it, and then we can swap the devices to the next and so forth until we get through everything.
[03:13:45] Clerk:
Did any other troopers assist you with the extraction or copying of the devices?
[03:13:50] Clerk:
Yes. Detective Lieutenant Ed Keefe, Lieutenant Sean Quirk, and Trooper Connor Keefe were all assisting.
[03:14:00] Clerk:
You've discussed Trooper Connor Keefe before, but who are Lieutenant Sean Quirk and Detective Lieutenant Ed Keefe?
[03:14:08] Clerk:
At the time, both of them were part of the cybercrime unit for the Mass State Police.
[03:14:17] Clerk:
In general, what is a forensic copy of a device?
[03:14:23] Clerk:
When we create a digital copy of the device, All the information that we're able to obtain from the device that we can work from as to not use the device itself and change anything in it. So we always work from that copy to make sure that nothing's changed for, you know, if we have to ever re-image it or if the item's returned, you know, we won't have the device in our hands.
[03:14:52] Clerk:
How do you keep from changing the data on the original device when you're making a forensic copy?
[03:14:58] Clerk:
So we employ write blockers. Write is in like W-R-I-T-E writing. So we can't write to the device. It only writes from the device. It's a one-way street. That way we can get the information and not change anything on the devices themselves.
[03:15:16] Clerk:
And where is the original device kept after it has been forensically copied?
[03:15:22] Clerk:
If the item was given on consent, we'll return it as soon as possible. If it's evidence, then it'll get tagged with an evidence number and placed into our evidence room.
[03:15:34] Clerk:
So now I wanna talk about the MacBook, the item number three that was labeled, the gray MacBook. How did you make a forensic copy of the MacBook?
[03:15:52] Clerk:
So for MacBooks, we can't use GreyKey, so we have to use a Cellbrite digital collector. It's basically a write blocker that plugs into the MacBook itself, and we're able to do a live acquisition of the device to a separate hard drive, creating a copy of everything that's there.
[03:16:14] Clerk:
So after you make a copy, then what do you do?
[03:16:17] Clerk:
I place that onto our external storage device for the Apple system that we have.
[03:16:23] Clerk:
And then what do you do?
[03:16:25] Clerk:
And then we'll load it into whatever forensic program we're going to use. So for the MacBooks, I used Axiom program made by Magnet Forensics.
[03:16:36] Clerk:
And did you ensure, again, that you used a write blocker for this as well?
[03:16:40] Speaker 07:
Yes, that's correct.
[03:16:42] Clerk:
And what did you do with the MacBook after the data had been extracted before you began to analyze?
[03:16:48] Clerk:
It was placed back into evidence.
[03:16:50] Clerk:
And where is that MacBook, the original MacBook that was taken from the Walsh residence? Where is that right now?
[03:16:57] Clerk:
It's at the Norfolk DA's office in our evidence room.
[03:17:02] Clerk:
What was the date range, sorry about that, what was the date range that the search warrant allowed you to examine on that MacBook?
[03:17:12] Clerk:
December 25th of 2022 to January 8th of 2023 when we seized the device.
[03:17:20] Clerk:
And you said that you used Magnet's Forensic Axiom?
[03:17:25] Clerk:
Yeah, Magnet Forensics Axiom is the name of their program to view the hard drive contents.
[03:17:31] Clerk:
And did that allow you to determine if there was an Apple ID associated with that MacBook computer?
[03:17:38] Clerk:
Yes, it did.
[03:17:39] Clerk:
And was there an Apple ID associated with the computer?
[03:17:42] Clerk:
Yes, it was BRW at 10SaleConsulting.com.
[03:17:46] Clerk:
And was there a name associated with the device?
[03:17:50] Clerk:
Yes, Brian's MacBook.
[03:17:53] Clerk:
How is data stored on a MacBook computer?
[03:17:58] Clerk:
Similar to a PC, they have a hard drive or solid state drive. The information just gets saved to the hard drive.
[03:18:11] Clerk:
What do you mean that it's saved on the hard drive? Is it in components on the hard drive? Is it specialized in the hard drive?
[03:18:18] Clerk:
Yeah, so Apple products save to an odd C database, which is Apple's way of... It's like the C drive in a PC computer. It's just where the information is located into different parts of the computer.
[03:18:36] Clerk:
Does a MacBook store data of websites visited by the device?
[03:18:41] Speaker 05:
Yes, it does.
[03:18:42] Clerk:
Does a MacBook computer store the search terms a user inputs into the device?
[03:18:48] Speaker 05:
Yes, it does.
[03:18:50] Clerk:
Where on the device is that data stored?
[03:18:55] Clerk:
In that Knowledge Seed database, the actual database, if you drove down into it, is the history.db database, which keeps all of your internet history. It's like a folder in a regular computer.
[03:19:10] Clerk:
And is that data automatically stored?
[03:19:15] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[03:19:17] Clerk:
During the examination of the data from the gray MacBook, which is item number three, that you've labeled item number three, did you examine data in the internet search history?
[03:19:32] Clerk:
Yes, I did.
[03:19:33] Clerk:
What internet web browser was used on the MacBook?
[03:19:38] Clerk:
So there's three listed, but the majority of all searches were done in Safari.
[03:19:46] Clerk:
What is a search engine?
[03:19:48] Clerk:
The search engine is whatever, it's like Google, Bing, whatever you go to search whatever search terms you're looking for. So if you type in Boston Bruins into the search engine, it'll bring up all the Bruins web pages in your web browser.
[03:20:05] Clerk:
And what's the difference between a search term and an internet history?
[03:20:10] Clerk:
As I said, the search terms are the words you put in to do the search. The history is the actual websites visited.
[03:20:17] Clerk:
Using the parameters from the search warrant from December 25th of 2022 to January 8th of 2023, were you able to compile the Safari internet search history from the MacBook, which was labeled in your lab as item number three?
[03:20:34] Speaker 05:
Yes, I was.
[03:20:36] Clerk:
and were you able to create a physical printout binder of that?
[03:20:40] Clerk:
Yes, that's what this is here.
[03:20:50] Clerk:
Your honor, that has been pre-marked as exhibit number 79, this binder.
[03:20:56] Speaker 15:
Are you offering it?
[03:20:57] Clerk:
I am offering it as the next exhibit, please.
[03:21:00] Speaker 15:
I'll see council at the side of the bench.
[03:21:11] UNKNOWN:
you
[03:25:04] Speaker 36:
you
[03:25:44] UNKNOWN:
you
[03:28:12] Speaker 15:
I'm sorry.
[03:28:44] UNKNOWN:
you
[03:29:52] Speaker 15:
Noting the defensive objections and the ruling I made at the side of the bench, that exhibit will be marked and is now in evidence as exhibit 79.
[03:30:01] Speaker 34:
79, please.
[03:30:03] Speaker 15:
That's item three. That is for the record. It's the item three extraction report, the gray MacBook Pro.
[03:30:22] Clerk:
Your Honor, I'm going to ask that item 79 be published to the jury through the screens now, because it's so big.
[03:30:31] Speaker 15:
All right, so jurors, can everyone, I know that you can all see, because you would have raised your hand previously, but previously we've been looking at documents and we've been zooming in. Anybody having any difficulty? For number nine, you're probably farthest away from the screen. Yes, Your Honor. All right, let me know if that changes. Go right ahead.
[03:30:57] Clerk:
Thank you very much. Your Honor, I'm going to ask now that we show page 526 of the binder marked exhibit 79. Trooper, what does URL mean?
[03:31:20] Clerk:
The URL is the website that the user is on.
[03:31:25] Clerk:
And what is the last visited date and time?
[03:31:29] Clerk:
That is the last time the user had access to the website.
[03:31:37] Clerk:
And what is UTC?
[03:31:40] Clerk:
UTC is a worldwide time code to make it easier when We look at devices, so we would have to minus five hours to get to Eastern Standard Time. So if you look here, where it says last date and time visited, UTC-0500, that is showing that I've minused the five hours.
[03:32:05] Clerk:
So the web, I'm sorry, the software has done that for us. You've checked off something, so the software does that.
[03:32:11] Clerk:
Yes, that's correct. Because during the summertime, it would be minus four hours. So we want to make sure we're in the right time zone.
[03:32:17] Clerk:
What is the title?
[03:32:20] Clerk:
Title is the name of the website. If you looked at the top of the web browser bar, that would be the title.
[03:32:27] Clerk:
And who created the title of the web page?
[03:32:30] Clerk:
That's done automatically through the website.
[03:32:34] Clerk:
What is the visit count?
[03:32:36] Clerk:
The visit count is how many times the user has visited that website.
[03:32:43] Clerk:
What is the visit source?
[03:32:45] Clerk:
So the visit source is where the source of the information was pulled from. So this one here says locally browsed. That means it originated on this MacBook.
[03:33:01] Clerk:
What is source, not visit source, just source?
[03:33:06] Clerk:
So the source shows the APFS container is the hard drive. It has a string of numbers and letters, users, BWALSH, library, Safari. So it's showing where in the database it's pulling this information from.
[03:33:25] Clerk:
And that's that. So I can see it says history.db that you had previously told us about.
[03:33:31] Clerk:
Yes. So it's going down folder-wise. So the library is the main folder, then it'll go into the Safari folder, and then the history database of Safari.
[03:33:41] Clerk:
What is location?
[03:33:43] Clerk:
Location, again, is a more, it's the location of the items in that database where they're located in it.
[03:33:51] Clerk:
Specifically within the HistoryDB database or whatever database it is?
[03:33:55] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[03:33:58] Clerk:
What is evidence number? I think I skipped over that, sorry.
[03:34:04] Clerk:
The evidence number is just the name of the disk, the hard drive, the image that we created.
[03:34:11] Clerk:
because this is a forensic software?
[03:34:13] Clerk:
Yes.
[03:34:13] Clerk:
Okay. What is recovery method?
[03:34:17] Clerk:
The cover method is how the information was pulled from the data extraction. So there's two options, parsing or carved or carving. Parsing just pulls the immediate information that the tool sees where carve goes deeper into the database to try to find stuff to to pull the information. It's just different locations and different means of getting the information so I can see it.
[03:34:44] Clerk:
What is item ID?
[03:34:46] Clerk:
The item ID is the ID number for this whole image we're seeing.
[03:34:53] Clerk:
Now, often there are two records with the same time when you go down in the when you go down in the records, you'll see the exact same time. Why is that?
[03:35:08] Clerk:
So this one here shows parsing. If you scroll down to record 1953, it's the same date and time stamp as the top one. It's just the recovery method is showing carving. So it's gone to a different area of the database and pulled it from a different location.
[03:35:25] Clerk:
So does that mean that the search was done twice?
[03:35:28] Clerk:
Nope, it's just how Apple has a program to store information.
[03:35:34] Clerk:
Okay. Can you give us an analogy about that? Can you explain why that is?
[03:35:41] Clerk:
Yeah, so if you think of databases, if you're familiar with Excel spreadsheets, that's basically all this is. It's different rows and columns of information, and it's where the software is pulling the information from. It's different rows and columns, that's all.
[03:35:58] Clerk:
Thank you. So I'd like to look at page 526, record 1952. What is the title?
[03:36:09] Clerk:
Best ways to dispose of a body dash Google search.
[03:36:12] Clerk:
What time and date?
[03:36:14] Clerk:
This is done on January 1st, 2023 at 4.52 16 a.m. And that's Eastern Standard Time? That's correct.
[03:36:23] Clerk:
What is the URL?
[03:36:27] Clerk:
I'll just do the beginning part. It shows www.google.com slash search. The query equals best plus way plus to dispose of a body. I'm showing the client Safari. And then it has a whole list of letters and numbers and everything else after.
[03:36:46] Speaker 34:
And what does that mean?
[03:36:49] Clerk:
Well, it shows that It was done, the search was done through Google and the query words where it says Q equals best way to dispose of a body. That means that the user input those specific terms and hit enter to create the search to happen.
[03:37:07] Clerk:
Okay. So beginning at page 527, if we look at record 1956, See that?
[03:37:21] Speaker 21:
Yes.
[03:37:22] Clerk:
Okay. And then if we go to page 533, record one, to page 533, record. 1980. 1981. Can you explain what the pages are in the title? Can you tell me the title?
[03:38:10] Clerk:
Yes. So the title for this one is 10 ways to dispose of a dead body in parentheses if you really need to. It says dash page six. So that page six means they're on the six page of the website. So the website will break it down so you're not scrolling a million pages long. So you're usually at the end of the page, you'll see next page, you'll click that and it goes to the next part of the website for the story or however it goes. So that page six indicates that they're on the sixth page of the website and they do this for advertising reasons and like I said, keeping things short or concise.
[03:38:47] Clerk:
So earlier in the records, if we had started at page 527, 1956, that was... Page 527, 1956 was just regular.
[03:39:09] Clerk:
Yes, that's the... It doesn't have a page number, but it looks like it's the opening page to the website for waterculture.com, offbeat, 10 ways to dispose of a body.
[03:39:20] Clerk:
And then if we went to 528-1962, what would the title be?
[03:39:28] Clerk:
10 ways to dispose of a body, if you really need to, dash page two, the second page of the article.
[03:39:39] Clerk:
Okay. So what does that indicate?
[03:39:42] Clerk:
that the user clicked to go to that next page, showing also that the visit count is four, so the user's been there before.
[03:39:53] Speaker 02:
Thank you.
[03:39:55] Clerk:
Looking at page 534, record 1986. What is the title?
[03:40:09] Clerk:
How long before a body starts to smell? Google search.
[03:40:13] Clerk:
What time and date?
[03:40:15] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 4.55, 25 a.m. And what does Google search indicate there to you? Again, that the user input how long before, excuse me, before a body starts to smell and did the actual web search.
[03:40:34] Clerk:
Looking at page 547, record 2029. What is the title?
[03:40:49] Clerk:
How long for someone to be missing to inheritance? Yahoo search results.
[03:40:55] Clerk:
What time and date?
[03:40:56] Clerk:
It was on January 1st, 2023 at 62444 AM.
[03:41:02] Clerk:
And what does Yahoo search results indicate?
[03:41:07] Clerk:
This was done on a Yahoo search search engine.
[03:41:11] Clerk:
So you previously explained Google search. Can you explain Yahoo search?
[03:41:17] Clerk:
It's the same thing. It's just a different search engine that the user can utilize to search whatever they're looking for.
[03:41:26] Clerk:
Looking at page 543, Record 2, 2014. Can you tell me what that title is?
[03:41:45] Clerk:
It's the same waterculture.com article, 10 ways to dispose of a dead body if you really need to, page seven.
[03:41:55] Clerk:
And what is the time and date for this?
[03:41:57] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 547.38 a.m.
[03:42:02] Clerk:
So what does this indicate?
[03:42:05] Clerk:
Again, a user had physically gone to page seven of this article on the website.
[03:42:12] Clerk:
And is this at a different time than had gone to the article pages one through six that we previously saw?
[03:42:21] Clerk:
Yes, I believe there was a 45 or an hour difference.
[03:42:30] Clerk:
And if we go to page 545 and 545 into 546, what page does this article end on?
[03:42:48] Clerk:
Record 2023 shows it at page 11. Does it go to the following page? Yeah, so that's where it ends, yeah.
[03:42:59] Clerk:
Page 11 at 548, 22 a.m. And what is the significance of that, seeing that page 11?
[03:43:06] Clerk:
As I said, the user physically went 11 pages deep into this article.
[03:43:17] Clerk:
Looking at page 547, record 2031, what is the title?
[03:43:29] Clerk:
How long for someone to be missing to be dead? Yahoo search results.
[03:43:34] Clerk:
What time and date?
[03:43:36] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 62517 AM.
[03:43:42] Clerk:
Looking at page 563, record 2082. What is the title?
[03:43:57] Clerk:
Title is Tishman Spire, Washington, D.C. head, Yahoo search results.
[03:44:02] Clerk:
And what is the time and date?
[03:44:04] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 744.46 a.m. And you are familiar with these searches.
[03:44:14] Clerk:
There are multiple searches about Tishman Spire. Is that correct?
[03:44:18] Speaker 07:
That is correct.
[03:44:19] Clerk:
And what is the title of the search on page 567, record 2096?
[03:44:27] Clerk:
This is Lowe's-Google search.
[03:44:38] Clerk:
And what time and date is that?
[03:44:40] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 748.04 a.m.
[03:44:46] Clerk:
What is the title on page 576, record 2125? 2125, 576. Should be down further.
[03:45:15] Speaker 39:
Sorry, Ms. Gilman, I know I'm asking a lot.
[03:45:23] Clerk:
There we go.
[03:45:27] Clerk:
Thank you. What is the title?
[03:45:29] Clerk:
The title is How Long Does DNA Last, which is a Google search.
[03:45:35] Clerk:
And what is the date and time?
[03:45:39] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 9.33, 49 a.m.
[03:45:44] Speaker 18:
Trooper, what is...
[03:46:20] Speaker 36:
.
[03:46:48] UNKNOWN:
. you you
[03:49:04] Speaker 15:
I think we were at record number 2125, page 578. Yes.
[03:49:10] Clerk:
If we could please have record 2125 on page 578. And for the record, we're showing a PDF, which is the same version that the printed out version of the exhibit, which the jury will have. All right. Thank you. What is the title on page 578, record 2125?
[03:49:39] Clerk:
How long does DNA last-google search?
[03:49:43] Clerk:
And what is the date and time?
[03:49:45] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 9.3349 a.m. And there is a line, redirect URL.
[03:49:54] Clerk:
What is that?
[03:49:58] Clerk:
If you look at the redirect URL is when you're going to a website and you click on it, but it redirects you to a separate not a separate website, but something similar. So if you look, it says, you know, a Slate.News, it's an article, but it says, is it possible to clean DNA off a knife? So it's similar search terms, but not exactly what you search. So it's redirecting you to similar items. The website's doing that, I should say. It's not the user doing it.
[03:50:37] Clerk:
So the browser is sending you to a suggested website?
[03:50:41] Clerk:
That's correct. I'm sure people have done this. Those who haven't, when you go to type in something in your phone or your MacBook, it gives you those suggested terms. That's similar to what this is.
[03:50:54] Clerk:
Thank you. So if we look at record 2127 on that same page, 578, what is the title?
[03:51:10] Clerk:
Sorry, 2127 you said? Yes, please. Sorry. Is it possible to clean DNA off a knife?
[03:51:17] Clerk:
What is the date and time? January 1st, 2023 at 934, 39 a.m. Did the user go directly there or was the user redirected?
[03:51:30] Clerk:
From this it looks that the user was redirected from the original search term items that they put in.
[03:51:36] Clerk:
And did the user stay on that website?
[03:51:39] Clerk:
It shows a visit count one. If you can go down just to the next couple, I could tell time difference wise. Down one more. The next search is done approximately a minute later. So it would stand that this website was up for a short amount of time and then the next search was done.
[03:52:11] Clerk:
So what does that mean?
[03:52:13] Clerk:
They were there for about a minute, and then the next search comes in at 9.35.52.
[03:52:18] Clerk:
Thank you. What is the title on page 579, record 21.29?
[03:52:28] Clerk:
Can identification be made on partial human remains? Google search.
[03:52:36] Clerk:
And what is the date and time? January 1st, 2023 at 9.3552 a.m. What is the title on page 583, record 2141?
[03:52:49] Clerk:
How to dispose of a cell phone, Google search.
[03:53:00] Clerk:
What time and date?
[03:53:01] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 9.5925 a.m.
[03:53:06] Clerk:
What is the title on page 584, record 2144? How to dispose of a computer, Google search. What is the time and date? January 1st, 2023 at 9 59 55 a.m. What is the title on page 589? Record 2159. I am a user of my wife's credit card.
[03:53:41] Clerk:
She is missing. Can I still use the card? Google search.
[03:53:47] Clerk:
What is the time and date?
[03:53:51] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 102916 AM.
[03:53:56] Clerk:
What is the title on page 591, record 2166?
[03:54:08] Clerk:
My wife is missing. What should I do? Google search.
[03:54:15] Clerk:
What is the time and date?
[03:54:17] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 1029.59 AM.
[03:54:26] Clerk:
What is the title on page 592 into 593, record 2170?
[03:54:36] Clerk:
The title is Your Spouse is Missing and You Want a Divorce slash Hello Divorce.
[03:54:46] Clerk:
What is the time and date?
[03:54:50] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 1030, 49 a.m.
[03:54:55] Clerk:
What is the title on page 596, record 2185?
[03:55:02] Clerk:
Best ways to dispose of body parts after murder. Yahoo search results.
[03:55:14] Clerk:
What is the time and date?
[03:55:16] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023, 1128, 43 a.m.
[03:55:22] Clerk:
What is the title on page 597, record 2189?
[03:55:33] Clerk:
Six ways to dispose of a body, dash murder, murder, murder.
[03:55:38] Clerk:
And what is the URL?
[03:55:41] Clerk:
www.murdermurdermurder.com slash blog, 2017 522, six ways to dispose of a body.
[03:55:52] Clerk:
What is the time and date? January 1st, 2023 at 1128, 47 a.m. What is the title on page 596, record 2193?
[03:56:19] Clerk:
Patrick Kearney. Google search.
[03:56:23] Clerk:
Did you review that search?
[03:56:25] Clerk:
Yes, I did.
[03:56:26] Clerk:
Who is Patrick Kearney?
[03:56:28] Clerk:
He is named the trash bag killer. He would murder victims and throw their corpses away into trash bags.
[03:56:38] Speaker 40:
What is the time and date? Objection. You want to be heard? Yes.
[03:57:50] Speaker 36:
. . you
[04:00:07] UNKNOWN:
Thank you. you
[04:01:51] Speaker 15:
The jurors, I'm going to strike that last. For the purpose of the question that was asked, I'm going to strike the last characterization of Mr. Kearney for the article came about an individual Mr. Kearney that kept people and put them back.
[04:02:23] Clerk:
Looking at page 603, record 2207. Can you tell me what the title is?
[04:02:44] Clerk:
Cleaning up a dead body slash wired YouTube. So it's a YouTube video.
[04:02:50] Clerk:
I was just gonna say, what is YouTube?
[04:02:53] Clerk:
YouTube is a video website where people, companies can upload whatever videos they want.
[04:03:01] Clerk:
And what time and date is that? January 1st, 2023 at 1141.50 a.m. What is the title on page 605, record 2214?
[04:03:19] Clerk:
how to clean blood from a wood floor, Google search.
[04:03:22] Clerk:
And what time and date is that?
[04:03:24] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 11 44 32 a.m. And then.
[04:03:30] Speaker 40:
Page.
[04:03:44] Clerk:
609 record 2229. What is the title?
[04:03:57] Clerk:
Can I use bleach to clean my wood floors from blood stains? Dash Google search.
[04:04:02] Clerk:
And what is the date and time?
[04:04:05] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 1150 05 AM.
[04:04:08] Clerk:
And what is the title on page 638 record 2321?
[04:04:26] Clerk:
You said the title?
[04:04:28] Clerk:
Yes. Yes, I'm sorry, the title.
[04:04:30] Clerk:
What does Bleach do to dead bodies? Google search.
[04:04:36] Clerk:
What is the time and date?
[04:04:37] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 1210.07 PM.
[04:04:43] Clerk:
What is the title on page 647, record 2351?
[04:04:53] Clerk:
We want to get away with murder. Question mark, use special detergent slash discover magazine.
[04:04:59] Clerk:
What is the time and date?
[04:05:02] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 12 18 03 PM.
[04:05:10] Clerk:
What is the title on page 6 50 record 23 64?
[04:05:22] Clerk:
Is it better to throw away crime scene clothes or wash them? Google search.
[04:05:27] Clerk:
And what is the time and date?
[04:05:30] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 1221.39 PM.
[04:05:35] Clerk:
What is the title on page 657, record 2386?
[04:05:47] Clerk:
How do you, excuse me, how to use hydrogen peroxide on blood stains, Google search.
[04:05:53] Clerk:
What is the time and date?
[04:05:55] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 1248, 14 p.m. And what is the title directly below that?
[04:06:03] Clerk:
Record 2387.
[04:06:04] Clerk:
How to clean blood stains with hydrogen peroxide dash YouTube. It's a video of those search terms.
[04:06:15] Clerk:
And what is the time and date? January 1st, 2023 at 1248, 43 p.m. What is the title on page 659, record 2394?
[04:06:34] Clerk:
Should I use hydrogen peroxide 8 on blood stains in concrete? Google search.
[04:06:40] Clerk:
What is the time and date?
[04:06:42] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 1253 44 PM.
[04:06:49] Clerk:
What is the title on page 665 record 2413?
[04:07:00] Clerk:
Can the FBI tell when you accessed your phone Google search?
[04:07:05] Clerk:
What time and date?
[04:07:07] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 1.4302 PM.
[04:07:13] Clerk:
What is the title on page 670, record 2430?
[04:07:24] Clerk:
Does the dishwasher clean blood? Google search.
[04:07:27] Clerk:
What is the date and time?
[04:07:29] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 1.5226 PM.
[04:07:36] Clerk:
What is the title on page 671, record 2433?
[04:07:41] Clerk:
Is it possible that a knife which had blood on it remains contaminated with HIV after it has been washed with hot water and dish soap, dishwasher soap, dash Quora?
[04:08:01] Clerk:
What is the date and time? January 1st, 2023, 152.57 p.m. What is the title on page 693, record 2502?
[04:08:15] Clerk:
How to remove a SIM card from an iPhone. Google, excuse me, Yahoo search.
[04:08:25] Clerk:
What time and date?
[04:08:26] Clerk:
January 2nd, 2023 at 2 o'clock in the morning, AM.
[04:08:33] Clerk:
And what follows that search, record 2503?
[04:08:36] Clerk:
The Apple support website, remove or switch the SIM card in your iPhone-Apple support.
[04:08:46] Clerk:
And what is the date and time for that?
[04:08:48] Clerk:
January 2nd, 2023, 2 AM in 15 seconds.
[04:08:54] Clerk:
What is the title on page 694, record 2507?
[04:09:01] Clerk:
How to remove a hard drive from an Apple laptop. Dash Yahoo search results.
[04:09:09] Clerk:
And what is the date and time?
[04:09:11] Clerk:
January 2nd, 2023, 2 0 1 19 AM.
[04:09:17] Clerk:
What is the title on page 699, record 2524?
[04:09:27] Clerk:
TJ Maxx, near me, Norwell-Yahoo search results.
[04:09:32] Clerk:
What is the time and date? January 2nd, 2023, 524.08 a.m. What is the title on page 717, record 2580?
[04:09:45] Clerk:
How long do stores keep security footage-Google search?
[04:09:52] Clerk:
What is the time and date? January 2nd, 2023, 1032, 43 a.m. What is the title on page 724 into 725, record 2608?
[04:10:07] Clerk:
Hadassah Abadi, Google search.
[04:10:16] Clerk:
What is the date and time? January 2nd, 2023, 12-27-31 p.m. What is the title on page 725, record 26-10?
[04:10:35] Clerk:
How to dismember a body, Google search.
[04:10:38] Clerk:
What is the date and time?
[04:10:40] Clerk:
January 2nd, 2023, 12-27-43 p.m.
[04:10:45] Clerk:
What is the title on page 730, record 2626?
[04:10:55] Clerk:
Hacksaw, the best tool for dismembering a body, Google search.
[04:11:00] Clerk:
What is the date and time?
[04:11:02] Clerk:
January 2nd, 2023, 1233, 48 PM.
[04:11:08] Clerk:
What is the title on page 733, record 2633?
[04:11:18] Clerk:
Details of dismemberment discussed in murder trial slash Wayne 15.
[04:11:24] Clerk:
What is the date and time?
[04:11:26] Clerk:
January 2nd, 2023 1242 59 PM.
[04:11:32] Clerk:
What is the title on page 735 record 2638?
[04:11:40] Clerk:
Can you be charged with murder without a body? Google search.
[04:11:44] Clerk:
What is the date and time?
[04:11:47] Clerk:
January 2nd, 2023, 1247.01 PM.
[04:11:53] Clerk:
What is the title on page 738, record 2647?
[04:11:59] Clerk:
Murder conviction without a body dash Wikipedia.
[04:12:03] Clerk:
What is the date and time?
[04:12:05] Clerk:
January 2nd, 2023, 1247.10 PM.
[04:12:11] Clerk:
What is the title on page 738, record 2649?
[04:12:16] Clerk:
No corpse, question mark, no problem. Notable murder convictions without a body, dash A&E, true crime.
[04:12:25] Clerk:
What is the date and time? January 2nd, 2023, 1251, 47 p.m. What is the title on page 745, record 2670? 745, record 2670.
[04:12:51] Speaker 15:
It actually starts on 744, just so the record's clear.
[04:12:56] Clerk:
Thank you very much.
[04:12:57] Clerk:
Can you identify a body with broken teeth? Google search.
[04:13:02] Clerk:
What is the date and time? January 2nd, 2023, 1,1246 p.m. What is the title on page 746 into 747, record 2674?
[04:13:23] Clerk:
Disposing of a body in the trash, Google search.
[04:13:26] Clerk:
What is the date and time? January 2nd, 2023, 1.14.51 p.m. What is the title on page 769, record 2747?
[04:13:43] Clerk:
Chatham West Apartments Rentals-Brockton, MA, Zillow. What is the date and time?
[04:13:50] Clerk:
January 2nd, 2023, 1.34, 35 p.m. What is the title on page 777, record 2768?
[04:14:00] Clerk:
The Claremont apartment, Claremont Apartments, Rentals, Abington Mass, Zillow. What is the date and time? January 2nd, 2023, 1.36, 14 p.m.
[04:14:14] Clerk:
What is the title on page 787, record 2798?
[04:14:24] Clerk:
What powder mass smells the best? Google search.
[04:14:30] Clerk:
What is the date and time?
[04:14:32] Clerk:
January 2nd, 2023, 2 51, 28 PM.
[04:14:36] Clerk:
What is the title on page 797, record 2830?
[04:14:46] Clerk:
Can I mix white vinegar to stop smells? Google search.
[04:14:49] Clerk:
What is the date and time?
[04:14:51] Clerk:
January 2nd, 2023, 7.09.03 PM.
[04:14:56] Clerk:
What is the title on page 798, record 2832?
[04:15:05] Clerk:
Can baking soda make a dead body smell good? Dash Google search.
[04:15:11] Clerk:
What is the date and time? January 3rd, 2023, 1.1555 a.m. What is the title on page 807, record 2856?
[04:15:24] Clerk:
Cleaning up blood without leaving a trace, dash five tips, aftermath services. What date and time?
[04:15:33] Clerk:
January 3rd, 2023, 5.0306 a.m. What is the title on page 819, record 2900?
[04:15:46] Clerk:
Are footprints easy to wash away? Google search.
[04:15:50] Clerk:
What date and time?
[04:15:51] Clerk:
January 3rd, 2023, 655.58 a.m. What is the title on page 858?
[04:15:59] Clerk:
Record 3025.
[04:16:06] Clerk:
How long for a dismembered body to decompose? Yahoo search results.
[04:16:11] Clerk:
What date and time?
[04:16:12] Clerk:
January 3rd, 2023, 102.23 p.m.
[04:16:17] Clerk:
What is the title on page 860, record 3033?
[04:16:25] Clerk:
Body found at Trash Station. Yahoo search results.
[04:16:29] Clerk:
What date and time?
[04:16:31] Clerk:
January 3rd, 2023, 1 05 50 PM.
[04:16:36] Clerk:
What is the title on page 866, record 3056?
[04:16:44] Clerk:
Can a body decompose in a plastic bag? Yahoo search results.
[04:16:49] Clerk:
What date and time?
[04:16:50] Clerk:
January 3rd, 2023, 1,1250 PM.
[04:16:54] Clerk:
What is the title of page 888, record 3127?
[04:17:04] Clerk:
Can police get your search history without your computer? Google search.
[04:17:09] Clerk:
What date and time? January 3rd, 2023, 730, 38 p.m. What is the title on page 904, record 3184?
[04:17:20] Clerk:
Does a cell phone track your historical location? Yahoo search results.
[04:17:28] Clerk:
What is the date and time?
[04:17:29] Clerk:
January 4th, 2023, 855, 27 a.m.
[04:17:34] Clerk:
Are there any searches from January 4th at 8.03 p.m. to January 7th at 3.58 p.m.?
[04:17:44] Clerk:
I don't believe so. From the Macbook on?
[04:17:50] Clerk:
On the Macbook, from January 4th at 8.03 p.m., January 4th to January 7th at 3.58 p.m. Well, this last search was done at 8.55, so it wasn't going to be 8.03. Okay, so from 8.55 p.m.
[04:18:07] Clerk:
I don't believe so, I'd have to see.
[04:18:09] Clerk:
May I approach, Your Honor? You may.
[04:18:14] Clerk:
Just see that there's more pages, I forget the exact dates. Thank you. Just want to double check. Thank you. There's not.
[04:18:55] Clerk:
And then starting at January 7th at 3.58 p.m., what is the first search?
[04:19:06] Clerk:
That's listed here. It says chase credit card login, Google search.
[04:19:10] Clerk:
And can you give us a page and a record number?
[04:19:12] Clerk:
Yes. On the book, page 906, record number 3195.
[04:19:24] Clerk:
Thank you. So did you look at any searches prior to January 1st?
[04:19:31] Speaker 05:
Yes.
[04:19:33] Clerk:
And I'd like to start with page 521. Looking at page 521, Ms. Gilman. Looking at 521 record 1938. I'm sorry, 1939, please. Sherbrooke, can you tell me what time this occurred?
[04:20:22] Clerk:
Yes, it says January 1st, 2023 at 3.4939 a.m. And can you tell me what's happening in this record number? It shows the URL for accounts.google.com for, it's like the Gmail login through the web.
[04:20:44] Clerk:
And going to 1940. record 1940 on the next page, that being 522, does that continue?
[04:20:56] Speaker 05:
Yes, it does.
[04:20:57] Clerk:
Okay. And going to page 524, does that continue until record 1947?
[04:21:08] Speaker 07:
Yes, it does.
[04:21:14] Clerk:
And what date and time does that end?
[04:21:18] Clerk:
The last one shows January 1st, 2023, 3.50, 06 a.m., and then the following is about an hour later.
[04:21:31] Clerk:
Thank you. Now looking at page 225 into 226, record 825. Can you tell me the title being looked at?
[04:21:50] Clerk:
It says cheating wife seduces another man to impregnate her. Scarlet Scandal, Seth Gamble, eroticax-pornhub.com.
[04:21:59] Clerk:
And what is the date and time? 12-27-2022, 12-06-28 a.m. And this continues on record 8-26, is that correct?
[04:22:14] Clerk:
Yes, it's a duplicate from the previous.
[04:22:17] Clerk:
Okay. And 827. Could you go down, Ms. Gilman? Could you go down, please?
[04:22:30] Clerk:
It's there. It's the titles on the right there at the top.
[04:22:34] Clerk:
Okay. If you could keep going down, though, please. Okay. And if you could Tell me if you could keep going down, I'm sorry, to 828. And what is this?
[04:22:53] Clerk:
It says chat with miss underscore B in a live adult video chat room now.
[04:22:58] Clerk:
And what time is that?
[04:23:00] Clerk:
12 06 28 a.m. on January 27th, excuse me, December 27th, 2022.
[04:23:07] Clerk:
Okay. And if this continues until record 831, if you could go to 831, please, Ms. Gilman. Is that correct with Pornhub, Trooper?
[04:23:25] Clerk:
Yes, it's there for about seven or so minutes.
[04:23:30] Speaker 02:
Thank you.
[04:23:39] Clerk:
And page 241 to 242, record 891. What is that title, please?
[04:23:54] Clerk:
Best divorce strategies for men, Yahoo search results.
[04:23:59] Clerk:
And what is the date?
[04:24:00] Clerk:
January 20th, excuse me, December 27th, 2022, 833.53 PM.
[04:24:08] Clerk:
And page 253, record 935. What is the title, please?
[04:24:19] Clerk:
Best date to divorce for a man, Google search.
[04:24:23] Clerk:
And what is the date and time?
[04:24:25] Clerk:
December 27th, 2022, 851.33 PM.
[04:24:31] Clerk:
And page 256, record 934. What is the title?
[04:24:40] Clerk:
934 or 943?
[04:24:42] Clerk:
943, I'm sorry.
[04:24:45] Clerk:
Five best and worst, excuse me, five best and five worst states to get divorced in the U.S. And what is the date and time? December 27th, 2022, 852 p.m., excuse me, 852.39 p.m.
[04:25:00] Clerk:
Thank you. Page 257, record 945. What is the title?
[04:25:11] Clerk:
Washington D.C. Divorce Lawyers Laws, Google search.
[04:25:16] Clerk:
And what is the date and time?
[04:25:19] Clerk:
December 27th, 2022, 8.54, 13 p.m.
[04:25:25] Clerk:
And you have the binder exhibit in front of you, but if you look between records 891 and 934, what does the Safari history show to you between those record numbers? 891 and 934, what topic and articles are being looked at?
[04:25:49] Clerk:
Is this, I'm sorry, what number is this one on? The divorce laws, if you scroll up?
[04:25:55] Clerk:
Yeah, I'm sorry.
[04:25:57] Clerk:
This is 945.
[04:25:59] Clerk:
Yes, I'm sorry. If we look at record numbers, 891 through 934.
[04:26:05] Clerk:
They are all showing websites regarding divorce, Divorce advice, mistakes in divorce. Using verbal abuse, don't split up like this. The 10 stupidest mistakes men make facing divorce. It's all divorce related.
[04:26:38] Clerk:
Thank you. So if we look at page 259, record 951. What is the title being looked at?
[04:26:57] Clerk:
Can you scroll down a little more? There. If you scroll back up, I'll just read it from the URL. So it's a Google search for Chase login credit card, and then it does a redirect to the Chase that does it again. It's duplicated.
[04:27:17] Clerk:
Okay. And what is the date and time?
[04:27:20] Clerk:
December 27th, 2022 at 8.57, 13 p.m.
[04:27:25] Clerk:
Okay, and this goes on to record 1026 on page 279, if you look in the binder, is that correct?
[04:27:37] Clerk:
Yes, showing all Chase account information, the Chase website for the account.
[04:28:03] Clerk:
Um, Trooper, if you look at page 508, record 1890. Okay. What is the title?
[04:28:25] Clerk:
Replay Poker Dash Google Search.
[04:28:28] Clerk:
And what is the date and the time?
[04:28:32] Clerk:
12 31 2022, 6 53 PM.
[04:28:52] Clerk:
Your honor, I am about to change topics. Would this be a good time to stop for lunch?
[04:28:57] Speaker 36:
Sure.
[04:29:43] Speaker 14:
You may be seated. Any updates on the forecast?
[04:30:13] Speaker 15:
So I was just asking Madam Clerk to check on the weather. It looks like a nothing burger, I'll call it. So we don't need to be worried about that this afternoon. We'll plan to go right through to four o'clock. Anyone need anything to be addressed before I take it off the bench? All right, have a nice lunch.
[04:31:24] Speaker 35:
Thank you.
[04:34:27] Clerk:
Where on the divide that data stored?
[04:34:58] Clerk:
of the data that's stored. In that knowledge see that the. Actual database if you drove down into it is the history dot DB database which keeps all of your intimate history. Take a folder enough. Regular computer.
[04:35:12] Clerk:
Is that automatically is that data automatically stored.
[04:35:17] Speaker 05:
Yes.
[04:35:20] Clerk:
During the examination of the data from the that you've labeled item number three. Did you examine data in the internet search history?
[04:35:34] Clerk:
Yes, I did.
[04:35:36] Clerk:
What internet web browser was used on the MacBook?
[04:35:41] Clerk:
So there's three listed, but the majority of all searches were done in Safari.
[04:35:48] Clerk:
What is a search engine?
[04:35:50] Clerk:
The search engine is whatever, it's like Google, Bing, whatever you go to. search whatever search terms are looking for. So if you type in Boston Bruins into the search engine, it'll bring up all the Bruins web pages in your web browser.
[04:36:08] Clerk:
And what's the difference between a search term and an internet history?
[04:36:13] Clerk:
As I said, the search terms are the words you put in to do the search. The history is the actual websites visited.
[04:36:19] Clerk:
Using the parameters from the search warrant from December 25th of 2022 to January 8th of 2023, were you able to compile the Safari internet search history from the MacBook, which was labeled in your lab as item number three?
[04:36:36] Speaker 05:
Yes, I was.
[04:36:38] Clerk:
And were you able to create a physical printout binder of that?
[04:36:43] Speaker 05:
Yes, that's what this is here.
[04:36:52] Clerk:
that has been premarked as exhibit number seventy nine this binder. You're offering it I am offering it as the next
[04:37:26] Judge:
All right, sidebar there in the courtroom. Joe Hennessey's with us. He's a criminal defense attorney, a former police officer, and he is in Massachusetts. This case got a lot of play there in your region in the Northeast. What's your overall take, especially with this defense theory that he woke up and his wife was unexpectedly dead?
[04:37:47] Defense:
I actually find it very hard to accept. But it's a threshold that I think the Commonwealth might have a problem reaching. And I believe that, in my opinion, they may create some reasonable doubt here. There's no body. There's no cause of death. The defense does have an uphill climb. trying to get into disputing the facts of the searches on his phone. I believe that the Commonwealth is laying that motive, the affair that she's had, the divorce he's looking for, best attorneys. He's looking for best states to get a divorce. And so that that is going to cause some issues for the defense. But the biggest factor is the cause of death.
[04:38:48] Speaker 23:
Yeah. And I mean, that is an excellent point. And we haven't talked about it that much on court TV, just because when you hear the, when we heard the openings of defense counsel, sometimes it's like, I don't know about this theory and this strategy, but you are right. He has not told them we haven't heard where, where the body parts are. Have we heard that?
[04:39:08] Judge:
Well, they know where he deposited, like, at his mother's apartment or condo. And then they have video of him. I know they have video. He's admitted that he dumped her body in these spots. The problem is those body parts are now long gone.
[04:39:22] Speaker 23:
Yeah, long gone.
[04:39:24] Judge:
The cause of death. How did she die? Well, he has a story. She just died.
[04:39:29] Speaker 23:
I mean, Joe, what else would you do here as a defense attorney? And I mean, your background is so interesting because you're also, you know, you have that law enforcement background. So you're looking at this from a really interesting perspective that I wouldn't necessarily look at it from.
[04:39:43] Defense:
So looking at the cause of death here, there should be evidence that comes out, and I believe it did come out already, where she was complaining of not feeling ill. I mean, she was feeling ill before flying back from Washington DC back to Massachusetts. So that is a factor to take into consideration in the sudden death. So that raises the doubt. But what hurts Brian Walsh in this situation are those searches on his phone and his computer, the searches of disposing the body. That's going to get the jury thinking.
[04:40:33] Judge:
Yeah. And before we hit a break quickly, if you put your police officer hat on, your investigator hat on, isn't your BS meter through the roof when you're dealing with a guy like this?
[04:40:46] Defense:
I'm putting my defense hat on and my former police officer hat on. I don't know where to flip right now. I believe that the defense in his opening statement was excellent. He raised that. You liked that. Interesting. Well, I liked his opening statement. I loved how he got me thinking. All right.
[04:41:16] Speaker 23:
All he needs is one juror.
[04:41:19] Judge:
That's all he needs is one juror. So you get thinking. All right, let's get a break. We'll get back in the courtroom. We'll pick it up right after the sidebar breaks up. Stay with us.
[04:41:35] Speaker 00:
The disappearance of Anna Walsh.
[04:41:38] Speaker 17:
Her husband now charged with her murder. All eyes on this accused killer. The disappearance of Anna Walsh murder trial.
[04:41:46] Speaker 16:
Live coverage today on Court TV.
[04:45:58] Speaker 13:
for you.
[04:46:11] Speaker 23:
Back now to Massachusetts for the disappearance of Anna Walsh case.
[04:46:15] Judge:
The Siberian realist, Serbian real estate exec was last seen January 1st, 2023 while celebrating New Year's with friends or husband. Everyone was having a good time, but that was it.
[04:46:28] Speaker 23:
Hours later, prosecutors say that her husband, Brian Walsh, killed her, dismembered her body, and then disposed of her remains. Her body's never been found. So why don't we go ahead and get you back into the courtroom now. They've been taking a look at the devices.
[04:46:42] Judge:
Getting close to what was on those devices.
[04:46:44] Speaker 23:
And so at least that's going to, you know, pick things up a little bit here with those Google searches are the jury. I don't think it's going to like that very much. So let's get you back in there.
[04:46:53] Speaker 38:
At a base it is. That's correct.
[04:46:57] Clerk:
What is recovered? What is evidence number? I think I skipped over that, sorry.
[04:47:03] Clerk:
The evidence number is just the name of the disk, the hard drive, the image that we created.
[04:47:10] Clerk:
Because this is a forensic software?
[04:47:12] Clerk:
Yes.
[04:47:12] Clerk:
Okay. What is recovery method?
[04:47:15] Clerk:
information that the tool sees. The current is how the information was. Pulled from the data extraction so there's two options parsing or carved or carving- parsing just pulls the- immediate information that the tool sees where carves goes. Deeper into the database to try to find stuff to. To pull the information it's just different locations and different means of the item ID is the item the ID number for this whole. Image we're seeing.
[04:47:52] Clerk:
Often there are two records with the same time when you go down in the arm. When you go down in the records you'll see the exact same time why is that.
[04:48:07] Clerk:
So this one here shows parsing. If you scroll down to record 1953, it's the same date and time stamp as the top one. It's just the recovery method is showing carving. So it's gone to a different area of the database and pulled it from a different location.
[04:48:24] Clerk:
So does that mean that the search was done twice?
[04:48:27] Clerk:
No, it's just how Apple has a program to store information.
[04:48:33] Clerk:
Okay. Can you give us an analogy about that? Can you explain why that is? Is it like a?
[04:48:41] Clerk:
Yeah. So if you think of databases, if you're familiar with like Excel spreadsheets, that's basically all this is. It's different rows and columns of information, and it's where the software is pulling the information from. It's different rows and columns. That's all.
[04:48:57] Clerk:
Thank you. So I'd like to look at page 526, record 1952. What is the title?
[04:49:08] Clerk:
Best ways to dispose of a body dash Google search.
[04:49:11] Clerk:
What time and date?
[04:49:13] Clerk:
This is done on January 1st, 2023 at 4.52, 16 a.m. And that's Eastern Standard Time? That's correct.
[04:49:22] Clerk:
What is the URL?
[04:49:25] Clerk:
that's a good question- I'll just do the beginning part it said shows W. W. dot Google dot com slash search- the query- equals best plus way plus to dispose of a body- from the client's safari and then it has a whole list of letters and numbers and everything else after.
[04:49:45] Speaker 34:
And what
[04:49:48] Clerk:
the search was done through Google and the query words versus Q equals best way to dispose of body. That means that the user input those specific terms and hit enter to create the search to happen.
[04:50:06] Clerk:
So beginning at page five twenty seven if we look at record nineteen fifty six. Okay. And then if we go- to page. Five thirty three record one- to page five thirty three. page six. Nineteen eighty one. Can you explain what the pages are in the title can you tell me the title.
[04:51:09] Clerk:
Yes so the title for this one is- ten ways to dispose of a dead body. In parentheses if you really need to. Says dash page of the website. So the website will break it down so you're not scrolling a million pages long. So you're usually at the end of the page, you'll see next page, you'll click that and goes to the next part of the website for the story or however it goes. So that page six indicates that they're on the sixth page of the website and they do this for advertising reasons. And like I said, keeping things short and concise.
[04:51:46] Clerk:
So earlier in the records, if we had started at page 527, 1956, that was page 527, 1956, was just regular.
[04:52:08] Clerk:
Yes, that's the it doesn't have a page number but it looks like it's the opening page to the website for what a culture dot com offbeat ten ways to dispose of a body.
[04:52:19] Clerk:
And then if we went to five twenty eight nineteen sixty two. What would the title be.
[04:52:30] Clerk:
Ten ways to dispose of a body if you really need to dash page two with the second page of the that the user. Click to go to that next page shot then showing that also that the visit count is four so it's- it's part the users been there before.
[04:52:52] Speaker 02:
Thank you.
[04:52:54] Clerk:
Looking at page five
[04:53:05] Speaker 23:
All right, learning about when that Google search was made, January 1st, 4.52 a.m. Eastern time.
[04:53:11] Judge:
The first.
[04:53:11] Speaker 23:
The first one.
[04:53:12] Judge:
They have begun. You made a point. I mean, from his perspective, if you're a juror and you're taking his perspective, you're like, all right, well, he's got this dead wife and he thinks he has to do something, so he checks in with old Google to see what to do.
[04:53:27] Speaker 23:
I panicked, didn't know what to do, who to call. I checked Google. That's where everybody goes these days, Google.
[04:53:33] Judge:
Yeah, well, we'll say GPT. Hey, this is their defense. They're sticking with it. Let's get a break when we come back Welcome back to Court TV Live along with Kelly Craft. I'm Ted Rawlins. We are focusing on dead of Massachusetts today, busy day. We got a couple new trial, a new trial in Georgia. We've got Luigi Mangione in court in New York. But we're watching this case, the defendant here, Brian Walsh. And he's accused, of course, of murdering his wife, Anna.
[04:58:22] Speaker 23:
Prosecutors say that he killed Ana back in 2023, and then he spent several days trying to conceal the crime before she was ultimately reported missing by her employer. Her employer called and wondered where she was, but her body has never been found.
[04:58:35] Judge:
Joining us now live from outside the courthouse, there he is. Matt Johnson inside, day two here. What stood out so far from today's testimony to you, Matt?
[04:58:47] Speaker 12:
Ted Kelly, nice to see you both. Day two in the murder trial of Brian Walsh, three years in the making here in Dedham, Massachusetts. And the focus is really on what he was doing during that initial investigation. Today we're hearing from the lead detective back on the stand finishing his testimony. The jury hearing more about the police interviews with defendant Brian Walsh, blaming his six-year-old son for the searches about blood and disposing of the body. Take a listen.
[04:59:19] Speaker 29:
in the morning, we have that area, we have that area, it's querying. We have 10 best ways to dispose of a weakened body.
[04:59:27] Witness:
Thomas is in his room with the iPad. Thomas is usually, I mean, I use an iPad.
[04:59:34] Speaker 29:
There is dozens of searches on that iPad on the morning of the 1st that ask how to dispose of a weakened body, how to get blood out of hardwood floors, how to dispose of the body in the trash, how to stop the body from being frozen, and how do you explain that?
[05:00:03] Witness:
You've learned in your investigation of this case that the searches that you were asking Mr. Walsh about at that time Those searches were not in fact conducted on the mini iPad. It was associated with his son, correct?
[05:00:23] Witness:
Yes, they were synced to that, but they did not occur on that iPad, is my understanding.
[05:00:28] Witness:
He never used his young son's mini iPad to conduct any of those searches that we've heard about, correct?
[05:00:38] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[05:00:41] Speaker 12:
Accused wife killer Brian Walsh facing life behind bars if convicted, showing no emotion in court today. His mom also in court offering support. She's also listening to a lot of these bad facts.
[05:00:55] Speaker 23:
Yeah, a lot of bad details for her to have to take in, Matt. Talk to us about the cross. We've seen defense counsel there really kind of go after a lot of the people on the stand so far. What stood out to you, Matt?
[05:01:10] Speaker 12:
And we're going to hear a lot more about that too, Kelly, with this defense team going after the investigators in this case, including the one that's on the stand right now, part of the initial Karen Reed investigation. So we're going to hear about that. But we're also hearing a lot of reasonable doubt that they're trying to raise. And we heard that yesterday with the bombshell during opening statements when they claimed that Brian Walsh came downstairs and discovered his wife dead in their home. And we don't know how she died. That's what they're trying to say. They're also trying to raise reasonable doubt in who did the initial searches on the iPad and those devices. And also, um, who how his hand got cut in the first place. Take a listen to this.
[05:01:54] Witness:
Those two exhibits that were shown exhibit 48 49. They showed what appeared to be cuts on the hands of Mr. Walsh, correct? Yes. You have no idea how those cuts occurred, please.
[05:02:07] Speaker 09:
Correct.
[05:02:07] Witness:
You don't have any idea when they occurred, do you?
[05:02:10] Witness:
Correct. I do know they occurred before the photo was taken, obviously.
[05:02:15] Speaker 21:
I'm sorry?
[05:02:16] Witness:
They occurred before the photo was taken, obviously.
[05:02:22] Speaker 21:
Yes, obviously.
[05:02:29] Speaker 12:
Now in real time, of course, we are at our lunch break here in Dedham, Massachusetts. And then Trooper Garino, who was part of the Karen Reed investigation, will be back on the stand and going through his key evidence that he's talking about with the devices. And then it'll be the cross-examination. And that's going to be something to watch for.
[05:02:48] Judge:
Okay, Matt Johnson, our eyes and ears inside that courtroom. Matt, thank you. Let's head back to the courtroom. Matt, as Matt just said there on the lunch break, we're just a little bit behind. We're catching up with the end of the morning session with those Google searches. Let's go back in.
[05:03:09] Clerk:
What is the title?
[05:03:11] Clerk:
How long before body starts to smell? Google search.
[05:03:15] Clerk:
What time and date?
[05:03:17] Clerk:
January first twenty twenty three at four fifty five twenty five AM.
[05:03:22] Clerk:
And what does Google search indicate there to you.
[05:03:26] Clerk:
Again that the user input how long forty- three before a body starts to smell and did the actual web search.
[05:03:36] Clerk:
Looking at page five search results. What is the title.
[05:03:52] Clerk:
How long for someone to be missing to inheritance Yahoo search results.
[05:03:57] Clerk:
What time and date.
[05:03:59] Clerk:
I was on January first twenty twenty three at six twenty four forty four AM.
[05:04:04] Clerk:
And- what does Yahoo search results indicate.
[05:04:09] Clerk:
This was done on a Yahoo search- search engine.
[05:04:14] Clerk:
So you
[05:04:19] Clerk:
it's the same thing. It's just a different search engine that the user can utilize to search whatever they're looking for.
[05:04:28] Clerk:
Looking at page five forty three. Record two twenty
[05:04:47] Clerk:
it's the- the same water culture dot com- article ten ways to dispose of all of a dead body. If you really need to page seven. And what is the time and date for this January first twenty twenty three at five forty seven thirty eight AM. So what does this indicate- again a user had.
[05:05:14] Clerk:
And is this at a different time than had gone to the article pages one through six that we previously saw?
[05:05:23] Clerk:
Yes, I believe there's a 45 or an hour difference.
[05:05:32] Clerk:
and if we go to- page five forty five and five forty. Five forty five into five forty six what page- does this article and on.
[05:05:50] Clerk:
Record twenty twenty three shows it at page that's where it ends if page eleven at five forty eight twenty two AM.
[05:06:04] Clerk:
And what is the significance of that seeing that page eleven.
[05:06:08] Clerk:
As I said that the user physically went eleven pages deep into this article.
[05:06:19] Clerk:
Looking at page five forty seven record
[05:06:31] Clerk:
to be dead. How long for someone to be missing to be dead Yahoo search results. What time and date January first twenty twenty three at six twenty five seventeen AM.
[05:06:44] Clerk:
Looking at page five sixty three record
[05:06:59] Clerk:
title is Tishman Spire Washington DC head Yahoo search results.
[05:07:04] Clerk:
And what is the time and date?
[05:07:07] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 74446 AM.
[05:07:14] Clerk:
And you are familiar with these searches. There are multiple searches about Tishman Spire. Is that correct?
[05:07:20] Speaker 07:
That is correct.
[05:07:21] Clerk:
And what is the title of the search on page 567, record 2096?
[05:07:29] Clerk:
This is Lowe's dash Google search.
[05:07:40] Clerk:
And what time and date is that?
[05:07:42] Clerk:
January 1st, 2023 at 748.04 AM.
[05:07:48] Clerk:
what is the title on page five seventy six record twenty one twenty five twenty one twenty five five seventy six down further
[05:08:17] Speaker 39:
I'm sorry miss Gilman I know I'm asking a lot.
[05:08:29] Clerk:
Thank you what is the title.
[05:08:31] Clerk:
Titles how long does DNA last which is a Google search. And what is the- date and
[05:08:46] Speaker 18:
I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that.
[05:08:54] Judge:
I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that.
[05:09:08] Speaker 00:
The disappearance of Anna Walsh.
[05:09:11] Speaker 17:
Her husband now charged with her murder. All eyes on this accused killer. The disappearance of Anna Walsh murder trial.
[05:09:19] Speaker 16:
Live coverage today on Court TV.
[05:13:08] Speaker 35:
see you next time.
[05:13:20] Judge:
Welcome back, we're in Dead of Massachusetts this morning, day two of the murder trial for Brian Walsh, the Massachusetts father accused of killing his wife, Anna, dismembering her, all taking place New Year's Day 2023.
[05:13:32] Speaker 23:
As jury selection began last month, Walsh admitted that he disposed of Anna's body and misled police after her disappearance, but he did not admit to murdering her.
[05:13:44] Judge:
Let's go back in the courtroom now, hearing more of those incriminating Google searches found on Walsh's devices.
[05:13:51] Clerk:
What is the title on page five seventy eight record. Twenty one twenty five.
[05:13:57] Clerk:
How long does DNA last dash Google search.
[05:14:01] Clerk:
And what is the date and time.
[05:14:03] Clerk:
January first twenty twenty three at nine thirty three forty nine AM.
[05:14:08] Clerk:
And there is a line redirect URL. What is that.
[05:14:14] Clerk:
So. If you look at the. you're going to a website and you click on it but it it redirects you to. A separate. A separate website but something similar. So if you look it says you know asleep dot news it's an article but it says is a possible clean DNA off a knife so it's similar search terms but not exactly what you search so it's- it's the website's doing that. I should say it's not the user doing it.
[05:14:55] Clerk:
So the browser is sending you to a suggested website?
[05:14:59] Clerk:
That's correct. So I'm sure people have done this. Those haven't that when you go to type in something in your phone or your MacBook, it gives you those suggested terms. That's similar to what this is.
[05:15:12] Clerk:
Thank you. So if we look at record twenty one twenty seven on that same page five seventy eight what is the title.
[05:15:28] Clerk:
So twenty one twenty seven you said yes please sorry is it possible to clean DNA off a knife question mark. What is the date and time January first twenty twenty three at nine thirty four thirty nine AM.
[05:15:41] Clerk:
Did the user go directly there or was the user redirected.
[05:15:47] Clerk:
the search term items that they put in. From this it looks that the user is redirected from the original search term items they put in.
[05:15:54] Clerk:
And did the user stay on that website.
[05:15:58] Clerk:
It shows his account one if you can go down just to the next couple I could tell The next search is done in approximately a minute later. So it would stand that this website was up for a short amount of time and then the next search was done.
[05:16:29] Clerk:
So what does that mean?
[05:16:31] Clerk:
They were there for about a minute and then the next one next search comes in at nine thirty five fifty two.
[05:16:37] Clerk:
Thank you. What is the title on page five seventy nine record twenty one twenty nine.
[05:16:49] Clerk:
Can identification be made on partial human remains Google search.
[05:16:54] Clerk:
And what is the date and time.
[05:16:56] Clerk:
January first twenty twenty three at nine thirty five fifty two AM.
[05:17:01] Clerk:
What is the
[05:17:15] Clerk:
on page five eighty four. How to dispose of a cell phone Google search. What time and date January first twenty twenty three at nine fifty nine twenty five AM.
[05:17:25] Clerk:
What is the title on page five eighty four record twenty one forty four.
[05:17:35] Clerk:
How to dispose of computer Google search. What is the
[05:17:46] Clerk:
what is the title on page five eighty nine. Record twenty one fifty nine.
[05:17:55] Clerk:
I'm a user of my wife's credit card she's missing can I still use the card Google search. What is the time and date-
[05:18:14] Clerk:
What is the title on page five ninety one. Record twenty one sixty six.
[05:18:26] Clerk:
My wife is missing what should I do Google search. What is the time and date January
[05:18:44] Clerk:
what is the title. On page five ninety two into five ninety three record twenty one seventy.
[05:18:58] Clerk:
Yeah title is your spouse is missing and you want a divorce slash hello divorce. What is the time and date.
[05:19:13] Clerk:
What is the title on page five ninety six record twenty one eighty five.
[05:19:25] Clerk:
Ways to dispose of body parts after murder yeah who search results. What is the time and
[05:19:40] Clerk:
what is the title on page five ninety seven ninety seven record twenty one eighty nine.
[05:19:51] Clerk:
Six ways to dispose of a body dash murder murder murder.
[05:19:56] Clerk:
And what is the URL.
[05:19:59] Clerk:
W. W. dot murder murder murder dot com slash blog- What is the time and date January 1st twenty twenty three at eleven twenty eight forty seven AM.
[05:20:16] Clerk:
What is the title on page five ninety six record twenty one ninety three.
[05:20:39] Clerk:
search.
[05:20:41] Clerk:
Did you review that search yes I did. Who is Patrick Kearney.
[05:20:46] Clerk:
He is- whose name the trash bag killer. You would. Murder victims and throw their corpses away into trash bags.
[05:20:56] Speaker 40:
What is the time and date objection.
[05:21:08] Judge:
Okay, search that we haven't heard no more. Yeah searching cereal trash bag killer Yeah, I mean he didn't search that that's what the guy was a trash bag killer Right Joe Hennessy watching along this these searches are not good. I don't know. You just can't really with a straight face say to these members of the jury, oh, it's no big deal. He's not searching, why do people die in their sleep? Can an adult woman just up and die? No, he's searching other nefarious things. Your thoughts?
[05:21:44] Defense:
That last question, and it was objected to regarding the time of the trash bag killer search, raises some concern. because if the search was made prior to that evening, then it might show that there was premeditation here. There's still no body. So he's making these searches. And I think that the I'm not sure what the evidence is that was found at the crime scene, whether there was blood anywhere. If it showed a violent struggle, does that help establish the premeditation or does it establish that there was a violent act that took place that caused the death of Anna? So it's still raising some concern as to whether the Commonwealth is going to be able to prove that this was either first degree or second degree.
[05:22:47] Speaker 23:
You know, and Joe, we talk about all the time, the prosecution has such a high burden, always, you know, beyond a reasonable doubt. It is a high burden, but sometimes when you take a look at a case like this, and I know you've expressed some potential doubts, sometimes it's like, oh, gosh, I mean, I feel like the prosecution is gonna bail to meet its burden, but maybe not, maybe not, but it is a high burden.
[05:23:09] Defense:
Well, you have to look at the time of these searches these searches are taking place at 452 I think was one of the times when he first started making those searches regarding the disposing of the body. That is going to rest in the jurors minds as to whether this act was a murder. But I think they're going to have difficulty showing that if it was premeditated, because none of these searches took place prior to that evening. Got to run. Joe, thank you.
[05:23:47] Judge:
Thank you, Joe. Back after this.
[05:27:09] UNKNOWN:
you you . . . Thank you. you you you
[05:37:16] Speaker 15:
You are unmuted.
[05:37:54] Speaker 36:
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
[05:40:46] Speaker 15:
Oh, yes, please. Thank you.
[05:40:49] Speaker 30:
All rise for the court, please. Jurors entering. Put us back in session, you may be seated.
[05:41:29] Speaker 15:
And you may proceed. Thank you very much.
[05:41:36] Clerk:
Marino, I just want to finish with that. Can you just remind me of the exhibit number in front of you on the binder?
[05:41:43] Clerk:
Yes, it's exhibit 79.
[05:41:45] Clerk:
I just want to finish with Exhibit 79, going back to initially page 598, record 2193. If you could just tell me the title for that.
[05:42:02] Clerk:
Yes, Patrick Kearney, Google search.
[05:42:05] Clerk:
And going then to page 600, record 2198.
[05:42:14] Clerk:
Yes, this is Patrick Kearney, Wikipedia.
[05:42:21] Clerk:
And could you please tell me the date and time for that? Yes, January 1st, 2023, 1130, 57 a.m. And in the course of your investigation, did you do anything to determine who Patrick Kearney was?
[05:42:36] Clerk:
Yes, I did.
[05:42:37] Clerk:
And what did you do to determine who Patrick Kearney was?
[05:42:41] Clerk:
I went to the Wikipedia site that the user of the laptop went to.
[05:42:48] Clerk:
And what did you learn?
[05:42:50] Clerk:
That Patrick Keeney was called the trash bag killer.
[05:42:56] Clerk:
Thank you. Tripper, I want to ask you if you were able I want to ask you about what day you received your search warrants from the court. You had previously told us that it was January 10th of 2023. Is that correct?
[05:43:20] Clerk:
No, I messed up the days.
[05:43:23] Clerk:
What date was it?
[05:43:25] Clerk:
I got the warrants on January 9th. I did the device extractions on the 10th.
[05:43:29] Clerk:
Thank you. So that's still in 2023?
[05:43:31] Clerk:
Yes, that's correct.
[05:43:32] Clerk:
Thank you very much. So Tripp Corino, you made a forensic copy of the iPad Mini 6, is that correct?
[05:43:43] Clerk:
Yes, it is.
[05:43:45] Clerk:
And that was item number seven that you gave in the lab, is that correct?
[05:43:51] Speaker 07:
Yes, that's correct.
[05:43:53] Clerk:
And after getting that search warrant on January 9th, how did you make the forensic copy of the device of the iPad Mini 6?
[05:44:04] Clerk:
So I used GreyKey, which is specialized hardware and software to extract the information from the device so we could look at it later.
[05:44:13] Clerk:
Okay. And what date did you use the GreyKey?
[05:44:16] Clerk:
That was January 10th of 2023. Okay.
[05:44:19] Clerk:
And can you just explain the process to the jurors of using the GreyKey?
[05:44:25] Clerk:
Yes, so we get the device. We plug it into the system. If a passcode is known, you enter the passcode. If not, it has the ability, depending on iOS and Apple product model, to brute force the passcode to guess it. And it can take anywhere from days to years.
[05:44:46] Clerk:
OK. And then once the information is extracted or a copy is made, what do you do with the data?
[05:44:57] Clerk:
So we save it from the gray key server to our secure server so we can load that into whatever forensic software we want to use to look at it, whether it be Cellbrite or Axiom.
[05:45:09] Clerk:
Because it's not in a readable format at that point. Is that correct?
[05:45:13] Clerk:
That's correct. It's in an encrypted zip file.
[05:45:16] Clerk:
OK. And where is the actual device now, that iPad Mini 6?
[05:45:22] Clerk:
That's at the Norfolk DA's office evidence room.
[05:45:25] Clerk:
OK. And after you made the forensic copy, then what did you do?
[05:45:32] Clerk:
Well, the device would stay in evidence, and then we would load that, like I said, into our forensic software to start looking at the information.
[05:45:41] Clerk:
And what software did you use?
[05:45:45] Clerk:
I used Cellbrite for this one, their physical analyzer.
[05:45:49] Clerk:
Trooper, had you previously examined this device, that same device, the iPad Mini 6?
[05:45:57] Clerk:
Yes, I had.
[05:45:58] Clerk:
And when was that?
[05:46:00] Clerk:
January 7th of 2023.
[05:46:02] Clerk:
And how did you have possession of the iPad Mini 6?
[05:46:08] Clerk:
It was given to us by Brian Walsh, the police.
[05:46:12] Clerk:
And what forensic tool did you use when you first examined the iPad Mini that Brian Walsh gave to you?
[05:46:19] Clerk:
It was, I used the same products. I used GreyKey for the extraction and then Celebrate Physical Analyzer to view the data.
[05:46:27] Clerk:
And at that time, did you have the password?
[05:46:30] Clerk:
Yes, I did.
[05:46:31] Clerk:
And what was the password for that device?
[05:46:34] Clerk:
12 12 12.
[05:46:35] Clerk:
And after making a copy, a forensic copy of the data, what did you do with the iPad that the police received from Brian Walsh on January 7th?
[05:46:47] Clerk:
Devices were returned to Brian Walsh.
[05:46:51] Clerk:
And was that same device in the Walsh residence on January 8th when you executed the search warrant?
[05:47:01] Clerk:
Yes, it was.
[05:47:02] Clerk:
And how do you know that it was the same device?
[05:47:05] Clerk:
So when we plug a system into GreyKey, It creates a progress report showing the date and time that we plugged it in, the process it goes through, and creates a PDF. When we plug that same device in days later, as long as the extraction has been deleted off the server, it rereads and knows this is the same device, same serial number. The hash value for the information may be different because time has changed, so user input and changes to the device will show.
[05:47:39] Clerk:
But the serial number is the same.
[05:47:41] Clerk:
Yes, serial number's the same, the Apple ID, the model number, all that stays the same.
[05:47:48] Clerk:
And who assigns the serial number?
[05:47:51] Clerk:
Apple, when it's manufactured.
[05:47:53] Clerk:
Okay, so when you examined the device on January 10th after the search warrant issued, did you determine who the iPad, for this iPad, whose Apple ID was associated with it?
[05:48:08] Clerk:
Yes, I did.
[05:48:09] Clerk:
And what was the Apple ID?
[05:48:11] Clerk:
BRW at tensilconsulting.com.
[05:48:14] Clerk:
And was there a device name?
[05:48:16] Clerk:
Yes, Brian's iPad.
[05:48:17] Clerk:
And when you first examined the iPad Mini 6 on January 7th, what was the Apple ID?
[05:48:24] Clerk:
The same, BRW at tensilconsulting.
[05:48:27] Clerk:
And what was the device name?
[05:48:29] Clerk:
Again, the same, Brian's iPad.
[05:48:32] Clerk:
Were you limited in the dates that the search warrant allowed you to examine?
[05:48:37] Speaker 05:
Yes.
[05:49:04] UNKNOWN:
you
[05:49:36] Speaker 36:
you
[05:50:12] UNKNOWN:
. .
[05:50:44] Speaker 36:
you
[05:52:00] UNKNOWN:
Thank you.
[05:53:05] Speaker 36:
you
[05:53:49] UNKNOWN:
you
[05:54:33] Speaker 36:
you you
[05:58:53] Clerk:
Trooper, the warrant that you wrote, that you sought, you limited the dates to 12-25-22 through January 8th of 2023 for the data that you could look at. Is that correct?
[05:59:13] Speaker 07:
Yes, that's correct.
[05:59:14] Clerk:
And so you followed those dates when you were doing your search?
[05:59:20] Clerk:
Yes, you're able to. edit the information down to the set time frame.
[05:59:26] Clerk:
And so you did an examination of the web history for the iPad mini, is that right?
[05:59:38] Speaker 07:
Yes, that's correct.
[05:59:39] Clerk:
Okay. So you did it for both initially for when Mr. Walsh had given you the device, and then you did it again when you sought a search warrant. You did two extractions of that and analysis, correct?
[05:59:56] Speaker 07:
Yes, that's correct.
[05:59:57] Clerk:
Okay. And, Your Honor, that has been marked as exhibit number 8. Previously as exhibit number 8.
[06:00:12] Speaker 15:
And noting the prior objections, any new objections? All right. That's item number seven, is that correct?
[06:00:23] Speaker 39:
That is item number seven, the iPad Mini, thank you.
[06:00:25] Speaker 15:
Okay, so now marked in Evans as Exhibit 80 is the extraction for item seven, the- Thank you. And my- iPad Mini 6.
[06:00:40] Clerk:
May I have quote, Your Honor?
[06:00:41] Speaker 15:
You may.
[06:00:45] Clerk:
And Trooper, I'll show you the cover has report one and report two. And there's a yellow piece of paper that divides them. Okay. Can you just tell me the difference, report one and report two, when those were done?
[06:01:03] Clerk:
Yes. So report one was just an extraction of the web history that I created to send out in email format on January 7th. And just go to the next page here.
[06:01:25] Clerk:
So that was from when Brian Walsh gave you, gave police the device?
[06:01:30] Clerk:
That's correct.
[06:01:32] Clerk:
And report two?
[06:01:33] Clerk:
Yes. Let me just get to it. And report two is Post that, this has a date of 11, 10, 2025, using, again, physical analyzer for the web history.
[06:01:50] Clerk:
OK. And that's from the search warrant content. Is that correct?
[06:01:56] Speaker 07:
Yes, that's correct.
[06:01:57] Clerk:
OK. And what makes the PDF reports different besides one was given two police and one was based on a search warrant.
[06:02:10] Clerk:
Yeah, so, Celebrite and all of these companies, they come out with constant software updates. This is an older version of Celebrite that I used. This is just a newer version, so it might have some columns extra that the older version didn't have.
[06:02:26] Clerk:
So you're pointing.
[06:02:28] Clerk:
I'm sorry, yes.
[06:02:29] Clerk:
If you could just use your words.
[06:02:31] Clerk:
Yes. Yeah, so each report has different columns. It's the same information, but it's just extra. It may have an extra column of information. That's the only difference.
[06:02:41] Clerk:
So the second report in the file, that software was updated, is what you're saying?
[06:02:47] Clerk:
Yes, I'm sorry, yeah.
[06:02:49] Clerk:
Okay. So you said that the binder contains the web history from the iPad. So those are the same? The web history is the same?
[06:03:00] Clerk:
Yes, nothing was taken out from the web history, whatever was there from that date and time frame.
[06:03:06] Clerk:
OK. And the binder, you said that the binder contains the web history from the iPad. And what had you looked at with the MacBook? Also web history?
[06:03:18] Clerk:
Yes, it's the Safari web. It's just called a little different in Axiom, just how they name it.
[06:03:23] Clerk:
OK. And what did you find between the MacBook and the iPad web history?
[06:03:30] Clerk:
So the web history for the iPad, other than numerous more YouTube videos, had the same searches that we saw that are in the MacBook.
[06:03:44] Clerk:
Were you able to determine which device, the laptop, meaning the MacBook, or the iPad, the searches originated from?
[06:03:53] Clerk:
Yes, I was.
[06:03:54] Clerk:
How?
[06:03:55] Clerk:
So initially, I had only looked at the iPad first and had believed that they possibly had come from that. By going, extracting the database from each device and then loading into a SQLite browser, which is another program to view the databases, I was able to see that the MacBook had a designation of zero, showing that it originated on the MacBook, whereas the iPad did not have that. It had an unknown source.
[06:04:24] Clerk:
And what did that indicate to you?
[06:04:26] Clerk:
That the MacBook, all of the searches that were done on the MacBook were native to that machine, not from another device coming over.
[06:04:36] Clerk:
So what did that indicate that had happened with the iPad?
[06:04:41] Clerk:
Well, that due to the Apple IDs being the same in both devices, the iPad during setup must have had the sync function on because it was able to sync the web history to the iPad, but not the iPad to the MacBook. And what does sync mean? Synchronized. Apple makes their products. So if you have used the same Apple ID on your phone, your laptop and your iPad, it shares all the information. So you're not constantly switching between devices.
[06:05:13] Clerk:
If a user does not change the settings, the data can sync across devices that are signed in with the same Apple ID, is that correct?
[06:05:21] Speaker 07:
Yes, that's correct.
[06:05:22] Clerk:
Okay. So if you look back at the big binder, that being exhibit 79, and you look at like record 2365 on page 650, Thank you. It says, what's the record number we're looking at? 2365, your honor. It says in the, I'm sorry, if you could go up, Ms. Gilman. Yeah, 2364, I should have said. In that URL, It says channel equals iPad underscore BM and source. What does that mean?
[06:06:33] Clerk:
So it's reading that channel is iPad underscore BM. BM stands for bookmark or favorites. So it's that the Google search engine is a favorite in the iPad.
[06:06:47] Clerk:
Does that show that the search originated on the iPad then?
[06:06:52] Clerk:
No.
[06:06:53] Clerk:
So why is that appearing?
[06:06:54] Clerk:
I'm not 100% sure of why Apple codes are this way, but it's that the iPad and the MacBook are synced, so the iPad has Google as its saved bookmark search engine.
[06:07:12] Clerk:
Thank you. You can take that down. Thank you very much. Did you forensically copy the iPhone 13 mini and iPhone SE pursuant to a search warrant?
[06:07:29] Speaker 05:
Yes.
[06:07:30] Clerk:
And these are Apple products?
[06:07:33] Speaker 05:
Yes, they are.
[06:07:34] Clerk:
OK. And are you familiar with an iMessage?
[06:07:37] Speaker 05:
Yes, I am.
[06:07:38] Clerk:
And what is the difference between an iMessage and a text message?
[06:07:43] Clerk:
So the iMessage is going from Apple device to Apple device, whereas a text message is going Apple device to any Android. You'll know this if you have an Apple phone, you get the blue messages. And if you send it to someone who doesn't have an Apple phone, you're getting the text boxes green.
[06:08:05] Clerk:
So what was the process that you followed to make a forensic copy of the phones?
[06:08:09] Clerk:
the same as the iPad, plugged it into GreyKey, did the extraction, and then from there saved it to our server and would be able to load it up later and to celebrate to analyze it.
[06:08:21] Clerk:
Same process?
[06:08:22] Clerk:
That's exactly right.
[06:08:23] Clerk:
Okay. And could you forensically copy both phones at the same time?
[06:08:27] Clerk:
No, as I said, we only have one GreyKey machine, so we have to do one device at a time.
[06:08:31] Clerk:
Okay. And then were you able to look at the device on a program like Celebrite?
[06:08:41] Clerk:
Yes, that's what I use, Celebrite Fiscal Analyzer.
[06:08:44] Clerk:
And had you previously viewed the data on the iPhone Mini 13?
[06:08:48] Clerk:
I did a cursory look with Trooper Conakeef, but I didn't go deep into it.
[06:08:54] Clerk:
OK. And how had you accessed the iPhone 13 Mini previously?
[06:09:01] Clerk:
The iPhone, oh, the same way. through Grey Key, downloaded it, and celebrated physical analyzer to view it.
[06:09:09] Clerk:
But had Mr. Walsh given that to police?
[06:09:11] Clerk:
Oh, yes, that's correct.
[06:09:13] Clerk:
OK. And when was that?
[06:09:16] Clerk:
January 6th or 7th? January 6th, I'm sorry. 2023.
[06:09:23] Clerk:
And you had worked, you said, with Trooper Keefe on that?
[06:09:26] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[06:09:27] Clerk:
All right. And did you have a password for that iPhone 13 mini?
[06:09:32] Clerk:
Yes, we did.
[06:09:33] Clerk:
And what was that password?
[06:09:35] Clerk:
1975-12.
[06:09:36] Clerk:
And were you able to determine a phone number for that iPhone 13 mini?
[06:09:46] Clerk:
Yes, I was.
[06:09:47] Clerk:
And do you know the phone number?
[06:09:50] Clerk:
Yes.
[06:09:50] Clerk:
And what is that phone number?
[06:09:52] Clerk:
617-939-8646.
[06:09:56] Clerk:
And what is the Apple ID for that phone?
[06:09:58] Clerk:
So there were two listed, Diana underscore Walsh at Comcast.net, I believe, and then Brian R. Walsh at gmail.com.
[06:10:07] Clerk:
So that's not the same as the MacBook and the iPad.
[06:10:10] Clerk:
No, that's correct.
[06:10:11] Clerk:
So what's the significance of that?
[06:10:13] Clerk:
Well, that the phone wouldn't sync to those other two devices.
[06:10:19] Clerk:
Did you examine the device to see if the iPhone Mini 13 was used on January 1st and 2nd of 2023?
[06:10:28] Clerk:
Yes, I did.
[06:10:30] Clerk:
And how did you do that?
[06:10:34] Clerk:
I pared it down by date and then looked at the device events.
[06:10:39] Clerk:
And were you able to prepare a report?
[06:10:42] Clerk:
Yes, I was.
[06:10:43] Clerk:
And how did you prepare that report?
[06:10:45] Clerk:
I exported the device events from the phone from celebrate physical analyzer to PDF.
[06:10:57] Clerk:
Any new objections?
[06:11:08] Speaker 15:
What's the item number on this one since that's what I've been keeping track of these?
[06:11:12] Clerk:
Oh, the item number on this one is... Five.
[06:11:30] Speaker 15:
Thank you. Thank you. The extraction for item five, the iPhone 13 mini is no in evidence. It's exhibit 81.
[06:11:43] Clerk:
You're on our mic, Ms. Gilman, display this. Do you mind? Thank you. If you could just do the top columns. Thank you. Trooper, what is event type?
[06:11:58] Clerk:
The event type is what the phone records, what it did. So shown here, device lock status.
[06:12:05] Clerk:
What is value?
[06:12:07] Clerk:
What happened with the phone. So the first one is showing unlocked.
[06:12:12] Clerk:
What is additional information?
[06:12:15] Clerk:
If the phone recorded any additional information, Macau was plugged in or anything, it would show in this column here.
[06:12:25] Clerk:
What is AC charger? If you could go down just a little bit, Ms. Gilman. A little bit more. Keep going to AC charger. Thank you. What is AC charger?
[06:12:37] Clerk:
So line five shows the charging method, and it shows that it was plugged into an AC wall charger.
[06:12:43] Clerk:
What is that?
[06:12:45] Clerk:
Like when you plug in a home to your alternating current on the wall.
[06:12:50] Clerk:
Thank you. What is USB port?
[06:12:55] Clerk:
That's the charging method. It was plugged via USB port to charge the phone.
[06:13:01] Clerk:
What is source?
[06:13:02] Clerk:
The source is the location of where the information came from, from the device, like how it recorded it.
[06:13:08] Clerk:
So there are two options, I believe, if we could see Knowledge C and Biome.
[06:13:18] Clerk:
Yes, it's two different locations, how Apple stores data. Knowledge C is the main database. Biome is a secondary repository for the information.
[06:13:29] Clerk:
And what is deleted?
[06:13:31] Clerk:
if the event was deleted from the phone.
[06:13:37] Clerk:
Going through the report, what event was associated with this device on January 1st, 2023 at 7.57 a.m.? And these are all converted UTC times, correct, for Eastern Standard Time?
[06:13:53] Clerk:
That's correct. If you look, it says UTC minus five in the parentheses.
[06:13:58] Clerk:
Thank you. So 7.57 AM, so that's device number two?
[06:14:06] Clerk:
Yes. So it shows, wanted to show the same items. One just shows the start time, 7.57 AM, the device lock status, the phone was unlocked.
[06:14:18] Clerk:
And how long was it unlocked?
[06:14:21] Clerk:
Approximately two minutes.
[06:14:22] Clerk:
And what time does the device become locked? 7 59 45 a.m. And after the device becomes locked what happens next to it?
[06:14:33] Clerk:
8 09 12 a.m. on January 1st it is plugged in.
[06:14:39] Clerk:
And then what happened?
[06:14:42] Clerk:
It recorded two charging things two seconds apart and then after at 11 23 a.m. the device is unlocked again.
[06:14:51] Clerk:
Okay and then what happens?
[06:14:53] Clerk:
It is then locked at 11, 24, 15.
[06:14:58] Clerk:
And then what happens?
[06:15:02] Clerk:
The device is 12, 38, 40. It's unlocked again on the first.
[06:15:10] Clerk:
And then what happens?
[06:15:11] Clerk:
And then it's locked again at 12, 39, 20 on the first.
[06:15:17] Clerk:
And then does the phone get unlocked?
[06:15:21] Clerk:
Yes. 12-45-20.
[06:15:24] Clerk:
And then what happens?
[06:15:26] Clerk:
And locked again at 12-46-49. And then what happens? It is unplugged on the first at 1-42-02 p.m. And then unlocked on January 2nd at 2-25 p.m. How can an iPhone be unlocked? There's two ways. Face ID or by inputting the passcode.
[06:15:57] Clerk:
Trooper, in addition to your digital forensics work on this case, did you transport evidence from the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner to the crime lab?
[06:16:08] Clerk:
Yes, I did.
[06:16:09] Clerk:
And generally, what did you pick up?
[06:16:12] Clerk:
I believe there were seven bags of rug, some metal tissue, and I believe hair.
[06:16:21] Clerk:
And how large were those bags?
[06:16:24] Clerk:
The bags of rug were like the, not as big as a long leaf bag, but a large brown bag, and the other ones were smaller.
[06:16:32] Clerk:
And when was that?
[06:16:33] Clerk:
January 11th of 2023.
[06:16:35] Clerk:
And where did you take those?
[06:16:37] Clerk:
To the Maynard Crime Lab.
[06:16:39] Clerk:
And what did you do when you arrived at the lab?
[06:16:43] Clerk:
I turned them over to crime lab staff and filled out their intake paperwork.
[06:16:48] Clerk:
And did you submit those for processing?
[06:16:51] Clerk:
Yes, that's correct.
[06:16:53] Clerk:
And you got a receipt for that, that you dropped those off?
[06:16:55] Clerk:
Yes, they gave me a copy of the intake form.
[06:16:59] Clerk:
I might have one moment, Your Honor. Yes.
[06:17:08] Speaker 34:
Thank you, Your Honor.
[06:17:10] Speaker 15:
Cross exam.
[06:17:17] Witness:
Good afternoon.
[06:17:17] Clerk:
Good afternoon, sir.
[06:17:21] Witness:
I think I'm going to stay here for a while, so we get a good recording. I want to talk to you about this timeline, this date. You applied for a warrant from 12-25 to January 8th of 2023, correct? That's correct. And when I said 12-25, of course I meant 12-25-22. Yes, of 2022. And when you draft a warrant, you are the one that picks the dates, correct?
[06:17:52] Clerk:
Uh, depending on the investigation, it can be yes.
[06:17:57] Witness:
Okay. And you were asked that question, that you applied for the warrant and those were the dates that you requested. Yes. Now, it's fair to say, isn't it, that once you began an investigation in a case and if you learn more information, there's nothing stopping you from going back to a court and applying for a further warrant, correct?
[06:18:23] Clerk:
It would depend, because the courts have shown that we need to have a specific time frame. So I would need some information to show why I would need to go back to write for an earlier time.
[06:18:36] Witness:
OK, well, but if you have that further information, nothing stops you from going back to the court and asking for a different warrant that encompasses different time periods? Yeah, I could. OK, now. One of the things is that you don't have any information to tell the juror about, of any of the data on the macro that originated before December 25th The data that you're telling this jury about today, you've said it a couple of times now. It's limited to 12, 25, 22 through January, correct?
[06:19:45] Clerk:
Yes, that's correct.
[06:19:46] Witness:
So that's the data you're talking to them about, correct?
[06:19:49] Clerk:
Yes, I only viewed that information
[06:19:51] Witness:
You would agree with me, wouldn't you, that you have the entire contents of the map book, don't you?
[06:19:59] Clerk:
I do have the contents.
[06:20:00] Witness:
And how far in date does the content go back on the map book?
[06:20:08] Clerk:
I have no idea. I didn't look.
[06:20:10] Witness:
Because you limited your warrant to 12-25-22.
[06:20:14] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[06:20:15] Witness:
So if you thought as an officer involved in an investigation that there might be some important information that predates 12-25-22. You have every right, and there's a procedure for you to go back to the court and explain to the court why you think there might be more information back before 12-25, and see if you could get a warrant to cover that earlier information.
[06:20:47] Clerk:
If I had information showing that there was more, then I could, yes. I don't believe I had any other information showing that I needed to.
[06:20:55] Witness:
And you didn't have any information that you thought it would be important to your investigation to go back before December 25th, did you?
[06:21:06] Clerk:
For my role, that's correct.
[06:21:08] Witness:
OK. So when we heard about forensics, this 1227, remember that?
[06:21:27] Speaker 05:
Yes, sir.
[06:21:30] Witness:
And we heard about some other corn hub reviews. Like Chattergate, correct?
[06:21:45] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[06:21:46] Witness:
And something about Miss Bell, correct?
[06:21:49] Clerk:
About what?
[06:21:50] Witness:
Miss Bell.
[06:21:52] Clerk:
I don't remember it off the top of my head. I'm sorry, Ms. B. I still don't remember, but okay.
[06:22:01] Witness:
Okay. Do you remember seeing record 831? I apologize.
[06:22:15] Clerk:
I don't have that book up here to see it.
[06:22:23] Witness:
Let me ask you this, do you remember seeing also a reference in the very same data that you've told this jury about that talked about a movie called, or something called Slade Dominant Scarlet?
[06:22:38] Clerk:
I would have to see it, but could I double check it?
[06:22:49] Witness:
Well, this pedestal doesn't work quite right.
[06:22:52] Clerk:
I have my copy. If you want to just tell me the page, I can look.
[06:22:55] Witness:
You know, I do apologize. I'm going to give you the page in just a second. OK.
[06:22:59] Speaker 15:
I don't know why. 1832.
[06:23:00] Witness:
Thank you, Judge.
[06:23:01] Speaker 15:
Sure.
[06:23:03] Witness:
What was it?
[06:23:03] Speaker 15:
I'm sorry. 832.
[06:23:19] Clerk:
Hmm. Oh, record 832. I'm sorry.
[06:23:24] Speaker 15:
I thought you said page 227. It's on page 227.
[06:23:26] Clerk:
Thank you. All right. All right, I'm there.
[06:23:35] Witness:
And yep. Thank you very much, Your Honor. Sure. So now I want to focus your attention to record 831.
[06:23:48] Speaker 05:
Yes.
[06:23:49] Witness:
On page 226.
[06:24:01] Speaker 21:
Do you have that?
[06:24:02] Clerk:
I do, sir.
[06:24:02] Witness:
And it references something called Slade Dominant Scarlet Straps Sicilia. Right?
[06:24:10] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[06:24:11] Witness:
OK. Now, you didn't testify about that to the jury, did you? No. On direct examination.
[06:24:17] Speaker 07:
No, I wasn't asked.
[06:24:19] Witness:
Good morning. You would agree that when you look at these searches involving Pornhub, that in fact, there's a number of, and I keep referring to them as searches, but let me just ask this. There's a number of webpages that refer to what I'm going to characterize as pronounced correctly.
[06:24:43] Clerk:
It's about 10.
[06:24:47] UNKNOWN:
Right.
[06:24:48] Witness:
Am I right to say that that cheating wife reference? What's the entire title of the cheating wife reference?
[06:24:57] Clerk:
Cheating wife seduces another man to impregnate her. Scarlett Scandal, Seth Gamble, eroticax, pornhub.com.
[06:25:03] Witness:
Do you have any idea how that particular porn movie, whatever it is, do you know how it came about?
[06:25:19] Clerk:
The only thing I'd say is that Pornhub was viewed and that video was selected.
[06:25:29] Witness:
OK. You would agree with me, wouldn't you, that there is no specific search term for cheating wife, is it?
[06:25:40] Clerk:
Well, it wasn't in a Google search. It was through Pornhub, so it doesn't record that.
[06:25:46] Speaker 20:
OK. So your answer is, I agree with you, or yes.
[06:25:50] Clerk:
that there's no specific terms listed? That is correct. The video was there. Click that.
[06:25:55] Witness:
Because you've already told this jury, and they saw it in a number of examples, that when the user enters a particular search term, the user, that it's a particular word, and then there's generally a plus sign that attaches it to the next search term, correct?
[06:26:15] Clerk:
Only in the Google search engine.
[06:26:17] Witness:
OK. With regards to this movie Cheating Wife, there is no indication that the term cheating or the term wife or anything else was used to get to that movie.
[06:26:36] Clerk:
As I said, I can't view any terms that were put into Pornhub, so it only shows me that search query in Google.
[06:26:51] Witness:
Let me ask you this. Part of your investigation, did you ever go and view some of that movie?
[06:26:58] Clerk:
No, I did not.
[06:26:59] UNKNOWN:
Okay.
[06:26:59] Witness:
But you did testify that there were times, like for other searches, you went and followed the document and the links and you reviewed the document.
[06:27:09] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[06:27:10] Witness:
But with regards to this movie, you have no idea what this movie is about. Correct?
[06:27:15] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[06:27:16] Witness:
And you don't know then, prior to December 25th of 2022, how many times, whoever was looking at the map, how many times they frequented porn movies at Pornhub?
[06:27:31] Clerk:
I don't look at any data prior to December 25th.
[06:27:34] Witness:
And you don't know how long this person that was looking at this movie, how long they viewed the movie, or if they viewed it at all.
[06:27:43] Clerk:
I do. It shows me a time frame of seven minutes. OK. Seven minutes. And how long is the movie? I have no idea.
[06:27:50] Witness:
Well, someone started watching that movie. They watched it for seven minutes, and that was the end of it. Is that your testimony?
[06:27:55] Clerk:
That's correct. And then I went to a dip that's sleigh, a sleigh dominant Scarlet video.
[06:28:01] Witness:
Okay. And that's sleigh Scarlet. Do you recognize the fact that there is some actress referred to with regards to the cheating life name that's also named Scarlet?
[06:28:12] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[06:28:13] Witness:
So it's fair to say, isn't it, that you have no idea, as you sit here today, whether the person who is looking at this porn hub video, if they're trying to get access to movies that have perhaps their favorite actress or anything else of the sort, do you?
[06:28:30] Clerk:
I don't know who this person is, so I have no idea.
[06:28:33] Witness:
So your answer is no?
[06:28:34] Clerk:
That's correct. I don't know.
[06:28:46] Witness:
And quite frankly, Trooper. Isn't it fair to say when you open up some website like Pornhub, it comes open and it has all of these possible selections you can make?
[06:29:02] Clerk:
I don't know. I'm not a peruser of Pornhub, but sure, it has options.
[06:29:08] Witness:
OK. So you have no idea what options were presented to the person that opened up this page, do you?
[06:29:16] Clerk:
No, I don't.
[06:29:18] Speaker 20:
But yet...
[06:29:28] Witness:
But yet, it was important enough to include it in the data that you put into that binder?
[06:29:34] Clerk:
With the information that we knew, yes.
[06:29:36] Witness:
Okay. And that information, let's just cut to the chase here, is because of the word cheating wife.
[06:29:42] Clerk:
That's correct, sir.
[06:29:43] Witness:
Okay, so just the fact that there was a phrase involving cheating wife, that to you was something that, okay, let's just include that in all this data and throw it out, correct? No. Okay, so you didn't take the time to look to see what the movie was about, I understand that, correct?
[06:30:04] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[06:30:05] Witness:
You didn't take the time to see if the actress, actor, in the other movie, sleigh dominant whatever, was the same actress in the other one, right?
[06:30:17] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[06:30:17] Witness:
So you really just said, oh, I see the phrase cheating wife. And so I think that's important. It's all included in my data.
[06:30:24] Clerk:
I'm going to object, Your Honor. It's a time frame.
[06:30:26] Speaker 15:
I'll see you at the sidebar, side of the bench.
[06:31:24] Speaker 36:
.
[06:31:37] UNKNOWN:
.
[06:32:04] Speaker 36:
you
[06:32:37] Witness:
I apologize because I'm afraid that my question is misleading. This binder that has been marked as an exhibit contains the entire contents of what you found on the MacBook between the dates of 12-25-22 and January 8th. of 2023.
[06:33:06] Speaker 07:
Yes, that's correct.
[06:33:08] Witness:
OK. So when I suggested in my question that you, sir, selected certain things, that is completely wrong, isn't it? That's correct. OK. And so I should have used this word. You would agree that you were focused on, by the question, you were focused on the title of Cheney One, correct?
[06:33:28] Clerk:
Yes, I was asked that in direct.
[06:33:37] Witness:
But you were never focused on direct examination as to the other porn movie, The Slay Dominant or whatever the title is.
[06:33:45] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[06:33:46] Witness:
And since you decided not to go back prior to December 25th of 2022, you really can't tell this jury how many times and how many different movies were viewed on this matter of porn movies.
[06:34:03] Clerk:
It's not entirely true. That's correct. So I could look at visits, and it could tell me when I was visited. I'm just trying to look here to see how many times. And then it would tell us to tell me the video would also tell me how many visits. But I'm not sure if that's the entirety of the fire history or just what I've collected.
[06:34:26] Witness:
Right. You're not sure if it's the entirety of what? Finish that sentence.
[06:34:29] Clerk:
The web history. That's in the device, yes.
[06:34:32] Witness:
So you just don't know.
[06:34:33] Clerk:
That's correct. I didn't go back.
[06:34:36] Witness:
OK.
[06:35:23] Speaker 07:
Can I just have a second, Judge?
[06:35:24] Speaker 40:
Sure.
[06:35:45] Witness:
So I want to ask you now some questions about what you testified to on direct examination. Okay. Let's start with... Let's just start with the iPad Mini 13, device number five. That's been marked as... Exhibit 81. You told the jury about the events that you looked at, the event log that you created, correct?
[06:36:32] Clerk:
Yes, it was an iPhone Mini 6, not a Mini 13. The phone was the Mini 13.
[06:36:36] Witness:
Okay, and... Well, you told us about Exhibit 81 being locked and unlocked, correct?
[06:36:49] Clerk:
Yes, for the iPhone.
[06:36:50] Witness:
Okay, and you told us about how it could be locked or unlocked using either a password or face recognition? Yes, that's correct. And how long did it stay unlocked and then locked in the time period that you looked at?
[06:37:13] Clerk:
I would have to see the report again, but I believe it's a couple minutes for each.
[06:37:19] Witness:
Okay. And did you ever determine what was being done on the phone during the time it was unlocked?
[06:37:26] Clerk:
Again, I'd have to look at the Celebrite report to see other activity or go through the timeline view to see what the phone was doing. I didn't do a full investment into the phone. Trooper Keefe did.
[06:37:39] Witness:
I see. So Trooper Keefe can tell us about that.
[06:37:44] Clerk:
I think so.
[06:37:45] Witness:
All right. It's fair to say that using Celebrite, the software you told us about, you can create reports that include certain information and exclude others. Yes. And you can create reports, so to speak, with the Celebrite software that are restricted by date, correct? That's correct. And you can do term searches, correct? Yes.
[06:38:44] Clerk:
Well I was thinking under my question was going to be if you're doing like an entire phone search or you're just looking say messages or web history because you can there's different places to search these terms or whatever you're looking for say a phone number or whatever.
[06:39:05] Witness:
Okay so you can decide what information you want to look at And then whatever information you're looking at, you can dictate what terms you think are important to search for. And then you can search for them.
[06:39:17] Clerk:
Yes, have I specified terms that I need to look for? Yes.
[06:39:20] Witness:
And did you do a term search on the MacBook for, for instance, divorce?
[06:39:31] Clerk:
No. For the MacBooks, I didn't do any term searches. I just did by timeline from what was allowed in the warrant.
[06:39:43] Witness:
Are you aware of the fact that, well, let me ask you this. On that MacBook that you told us about some time, the reference to divorce and all those things we heard on direct examination, That only occurred on 12-27 of 2020. Is that fair to say?
[06:40:07] Clerk:
I can only say what I've looked for from that time frame. If anything happened prior, I don't know.
[06:40:14] Witness:
But my question is, if I can testify to the references that you were asked multiple times on direct examination regarding the horse only occurred on 12-27.
[06:40:25] Speaker 07:
That's correct from what I have.
[06:40:27] Witness:
And what was the time period for where all those searches you told us about I don't remember the exact time.
[06:40:37] Clerk:
I believe it was around 11 o'clock in the morning, but I could be mistaken. I would have to look.
[06:40:42] Witness:
As I said, I don't know the exact time would have to look to see. And what time did those divorce searches that you referenced in direct examination, what time did they occur?
[06:41:02] Clerk:
Again, I'd have to look at the notes to see the exact date and times.
[06:41:06] Witness:
But you would agree they only occurred on 12-27?
[06:41:10] Clerk:
I believe that's when they all happened, yes.
[06:41:12] Witness:
And one of the searches that you told the jury about had to do with something like 10 best states?
[06:41:20] Clerk:
I think it was five, but yes, five best states.
[06:41:23] Witness:
Did you take the time to look at those documents that were referred to those searches?
[06:41:29] Clerk:
I don't know if I looked at all of the divorce ones. I did look at some.
[06:41:33] Witness:
And you would agree that if someone were to be searching for divorce, they could be searching for the topic of divorce and how divorce might affect protection of family? Yes. You'd agree with that, wouldn't you?
[06:41:51] Clerk:
Could that? Yes. It could, yes.
[06:41:53] Witness:
And are you aware, as you sit here today, that around that time of December 27th, are you aware of the fact that Brian Walsh and Hannah Walsh were talking about the sale of one of their properties?
[06:42:10] Clerk:
I did see Zillow searches in the MacBook for apartments in D.C., I believe, but I didn't know anything about sales.
[06:42:19] Witness:
Okay, did you ever take the time to examine the phone that belonged to Brian Walsh? Again, does it?
[06:42:34] Speaker 15:
Is that specific? Sustains. Specify what you're talking about, Council.
[06:42:44] Witness:
What are the phones that you examined that were associated to Brian Walsh?
[06:42:49] Clerk:
As I said, I only did a cursory look through the iPhone 13 regarding the device events, and that was about it.
[06:42:56] Witness:
So is that what Trooper Heath told more about?
[06:43:00] Clerk:
Yes, he did most of the mapping. Yes, that's true.
[06:43:07] Witness:
So I guess my next question is, are you aware of text messages between Ryan Walsh and Anna Walsh encompassing the dates of December 25th and December 30th of 2022?
[06:43:26] Clerk:
No, there were none in the devices that I looked at.
[06:43:29] Witness:
So when you were asked questions about your review of the MacBook in references to the divorce on or around 1227, you, as you sit here today, you have no idea what was going on in text messages between Anna Walsh and Michael.
[06:43:44] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[06:44:01] Witness:
And you said you reviewed some of the documents that were associated with the divorce searches. Did you see any documents that specifically referenced what states were more beneficial when it comes to fees and the timing for judgment DC and things like that in the context of the divorce?
[06:44:22] Clerk:
Unless it was listed on the web page, I didn't see any specific searches for that itself.
[06:44:29] Witness:
And as you sit here today, do you recall reading any documents associated with those divorce searches that had to do with protecting assets of family?
[06:44:44] Clerk:
No, I looked at these years ago. I haven't looked at them since.
[06:45:16] Witness:
Those searches that you were asked about on direct examination coming from the math group and the data that you extracted, the many searches that had to do with Chase, you recall those questions?
[06:45:37] Clerk:
The Chase bank? Yes.
[06:45:40] Witness:
And it's fair to say that by looking at the data that you based your direct testimony on. You cannot tell at all what specific data was being reviewed.
[06:45:56] Clerk:
Again, if I can see the websites listed, sometimes it'll say you're in the accounts dashboard. It could list out. But again, I'd have to see exactly what you're describing.
[06:46:10] Witness:
Cooper, I guess the reason I'm asking Yes. You're charged with looking at data like this and you use specialized forensic tools to look at the data, correct?
[06:46:26] Speaker 05:
Yes.
[06:46:27] Witness:
And you're trained to look at the data and try to interpret what the data is, correct?
[06:46:33] Speaker 05:
Yes.
[06:46:33] Witness:
And then you share that information, don't you, with the commonwealth, correct?
[06:46:38] Speaker 07:
Correct.
[06:46:38] Witness:
And so now you were brought in here as a witness and you were just asked questions about all of these searches that occurred Yes. I was asked to explain every Chase website to them. where you ask a simple question. Can you tell us what the person actually viewed with regards to a chase account?
[06:47:19] Clerk:
Again, if I see the data, I can explain it, but I can't say everything.
[06:47:24] Witness:
No, I understand.
[06:47:28] Clerk:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't understand your question then.
[06:47:30] Witness:
Well, have you sat down with the commonwealth in the context of this specific case and those Chase searches and tried to explain to them what it is as the digital expert in the case, what was being viewed on the Chase accounts?
[06:47:45] Clerk:
Just that Chase had been, the website for the Chase account had been visited.
[06:47:50] Witness:
And that's it?
[06:47:51] Clerk:
That's correct.
[06:48:16] Witness:
You would agree with me, wouldn't you, Trooper Greeno, that when someone enters specific search terms, then the browser or the search engine that they're using will generate a number of results, correct? Yes. And then the user can click on some of those results, are bypassing those research results and just go to some other results.
[06:48:47] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[06:48:49] Witness:
And you would agree with me then that when search results appear, they can lead the viewer, the user, to then follow that link and go someplace else, correct?
[06:49:07] Clerk:
It's going to be based on the search term, and then it can send you to something similar, but not exactly what you wrote.
[06:49:17] Witness:
And is that what you told the jury about redirecting?
[06:49:19] Clerk:
That's correct.
[06:49:20] Witness:
And so when a user gets redirected to some other website or something, that's not a result of the user saying, I want to be redirected. software doing it on its own well the user would have to click on the web page for it to open for them to see it right but to be redirected it's the algorithm or whatever's going on that directs the user to some other
[06:50:01] Clerk:
Again, but it's gonna be similar terms to what were written. It's not like they're gonna, they type in, you know, basketball and they get sent to, you know, something about space.
[06:50:15] Witness:
Well, maybe it's me. I'm not asking you. I'm saying someone types in particular search terms and then the software, the browser, and generates search results.
[06:50:31] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[06:50:32] Witness:
And at times, the browser and the software redirects the user to something that it thinks, hey, maybe this is what is relevant to what you're looking at.
[06:50:44] Speaker 07:
Yes, that's correct.
[06:50:45] Witness:
And I know that it doesn't talk to you usually, but you understand that. Yes. And you saw instances of that in your review of the data in the map.
[06:50:56] Clerk:
Yes, I don't know the exact number, but there's a handful that I saw.
[06:51:01] Witness:
And, Trooper Garino, when someone is doing a search for something like how to dispose of a body, did you follow that link to the result of that specific query?
[06:51:17] Clerk:
I don't know if that specific one, but I did go to many of the ones that were listed.
[06:51:22] Witness:
And so as you sit here today, can you tell the jury then that if you were to put in that particular query, how to dispose of a body, that the results would include things like cemetery names or other things like that?
[06:51:42] Clerk:
Well, it would constantly change. So if I did it now, the results would be nothing like they were two or three years ago.
[06:51:49] Witness:
OK. And that wasn't my question. That's fine. Let me ask you again. That if someone in a specific search terms like, how to dispose of a body, the results could simply be, here, take the body to a cemetery, something like that.
[06:52:05] Clerk:
Again, I would have to search it to see. I can't say definitively.
[06:52:09] Witness:
So you didn't do that.
[06:52:10] Clerk:
For that specific one, no.
[06:52:19] Witness:
And so it's fair to say that when someone is using specific search terms, sometimes you have to add additional terms to get information that might be more helpful to what you're asking them.
[06:52:35] Clerk:
So like adding more words? Is that what you're saying? That could be, yes.
[06:52:41] Witness:
It could be the fact that to get more specific information about, for instance, how to dispose of a body, you would then have to add another search term like murders to get more specific information that you might be looking for.
[06:52:59] Clerk:
I can't say.
[06:53:00] Witness:
So you'd try that in the context of your investigation of this case.
[06:53:05] Clerk:
Again, this was years ago that I did this, so I have no recollection of it.
[06:53:17] Witness:
But you would agree with me, wouldn't you, that just in a general context, whether we're talking about terms like murder or any other term, sometimes to get more search results, you have to add more terms.
[06:53:38] Clerk:
Again, I can't say for certain.
[06:53:56] Witness:
So you would agree, wouldn't you, that your review of the MacBook data would be to extract that all of these dark, search queries that you were asked specifically on direct examination, that they all occurred only after 4.52 a.m. on January 1st?
[06:54:40] Clerk:
That I was able to see, yes.
[06:54:42] Witness:
When you say able to see, what do you mean?
[06:54:44] Clerk:
Well, I didn't have anything going back prior to the 25th, so I only have what was limited via the search warrant, but everything was from the 1st to about, I believe, the 4th.
[06:54:56] Witness:
Again, if you wanted to see if there was searches conducted on this MacBook, where someone is trying to figure out how do you dispose of a body before January 1st of 2023, and you thought that was important to your investigation, once again, you could have gone back and applied for a warrant to see if there were, right?
[06:55:16] Clerk:
Well, I'd have to show probable cause for the warrant to show why I would need to go back further than the 25th that I've already written for.
[06:55:23] Witness:
So you had no probable cause? then, to go back to the court and say, I have reason to believe that someone might have been trying to learn how to dispose of a body prior to January 1st of 2023 at 442 in the morning.
[06:55:45] Speaker 40:
Objection.
[06:55:48] Speaker 07:
Overruled. That's correct.
[06:55:57] Witness:
In fact, in all of your examination of the data that you did look at, the data that you chose to limit to 1225 or January 8th, you saw nothing in the data dating back to 1225 that indicated any searches that were relevant to how to dispose of the body.
[06:56:20] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[06:56:22] Witness:
You saw no searches about anything about DNA or anything of the sort.
[06:56:28] Speaker 07:
That's correct.
[06:56:29] Witness:
You saw no searches about how to get rid of blood.
[06:56:34] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[06:56:35] Witness:
You saw no searches about how to use hydrogen peroxide to clean up.
[06:56:41] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[06:56:43] Witness:
Yes, that's correct.
[06:56:45] Speaker 07:
I didn't see any.
[06:57:06] Witness:
But you would agree, then, just try to end this particular process. If you had, you've referred to this jury here, probable cause to think someone had tried to plan murder, you could have gone and applied for a warrant to see if there was data on that matter.
[06:57:25] Speaker 01:
Objection.
[06:57:26] Speaker 15:
Sustained.
[06:57:51] Witness:
In your review of the Mac over digital data, did you see anything indicating a search for a man named William Baskin?
[06:58:05] Clerk:
Yes. I believe so.
[06:58:09] Witness:
Do you recall when that search was?
[06:58:14] Clerk:
I don't. I believe it was prior to January 1st, if I'm not mistaken.
[06:58:20] Witness:
So you have no recollection, as you sit here today, that you had a discussion with the Commonwealth about searches specific to William Nelson.
[06:58:28] Speaker 07:
Oh, that's correct.
[06:58:30] Witness:
By the way, I understand these exhibits, these binaries. Sometimes I refer to it as reports, but it's a report generated by someone, right?
[06:58:44] Clerk:
That's correct. Or axiom.
[06:58:46] Witness:
Or axiom.
[06:58:47] UNKNOWN:
Yeah.
[06:58:47] Witness:
And regarding the report, you never wrote any report summarizing what it was that you found on the map.
[06:58:57] Clerk:
That's correct. I take it directly from the software. That way I don't make any mistakes from transcribing it from one to another.
[06:59:12] Witness:
Binder that you have there on this shelf. It's I believe so and it contains many many Entries referred to as records, correct? Yes, how many records I can tell you in a second.
[06:59:34] Speaker 33:
Mm-hmm
[06:59:43] Clerk:
3677.
[06:59:44] Witness:
Out of those 3677 records created in this celebrant report, can you tell the jury how many of those records are relevant to your investigation specific to this case?
[07:00:04] Clerk:
The exact number of the records? No, I couldn't.
[07:00:07] Witness:
Can you give us an estimate?
[07:00:09] Clerk:
No.
[07:00:13] Witness:
You would agree, wouldn't you, Trooper, that it's a very relatively small amount of those records, those over 3,000 records that have any relevance to the point of the investigation of this case?
[07:00:26] Clerk:
No.
[07:00:27] Witness:
Well, then how many records do apply to the investigation of this case?
[07:00:32] Clerk:
Again, I'd just be guessing, but I think a good portion.
[07:00:35] Witness:
And what's a good portion?
[07:00:37] Clerk:
I don't know. I don't have a specific number.
[07:01:11] Speaker 15:
I got it. I understand something needs an unscheduled break, and the day is getting long. We've done a lot of work today, so I'll let you, of course, use the facilities, but I'm also going to send you on your way for the day, and we'll be back ready to work.
[07:03:02] UNKNOWN:
Weather.
[07:03:03] Speaker 15:
I know you guys aren't watching, you're not listening. I want to remind your jurors, don't do any research about this case. Continue to be vigilant about not listening to any news media, any social media. Don't do any research about the case. Continue to have open minds. With those warnings, you're ready to come home tonight. I appreciate the work. We'll see you back. We're ready to work in the morning. Please be seated. To shut off their water consumption at about 1.45 to make sure we make it through the two-hour afternoon. I'm joking. Les, does anyone need to raise anything with me this afternoon before we suspend?
[07:04:44] Speaker 39:
No, Your Honor.
[07:04:47] Speaker 15:
All right. So Kalm will tell me who's on the agenda for tomorrow. We'll finish up with this. Trooper and where are we going from there?
[07:04:57] Commonwealth:
So we will have keepers of the records from Uber, Lyft and JetBlue. We would have Sergeant Reardon from Cohasset PD who was a K-9 officer. William Foley from U.S. Customs and Border Protection. Michael Kenyon from Swamps Good PD. Maybe A.B. Waterman from the Massachusetts State Police. And then I'm trying to determine if we're going to have, based on witnesses availability, is it going to be Connor Keefe? Davis Gould and Heather Sullivan. I've been calling her Sutherland for about two months now, I apologize. So my hope is that in the next 20 minutes I'll be able to email counsel and let them know what that lineup will be. But I think that that would take us easily over a day to accomplish Sullivan, Gould and Keefe. The others I think are very quick and we can get through pretty easily.
[07:05:56] Speaker 15:
So it is actually more important that you're talking to each other than you're telling me what's going on. And I appreciate your continuing efforts to do that and to... We can look to the clerk too. Oh, I know. She just saved me from some of the messages. Anyway, it's more important that you're talking to each other. Yes, Your Honor. Keeping me informed as I need to be. Anyway, everybody else set?
[07:06:25] Commonwealth:
Yes, Your Honor.
[07:06:26] Speaker 15:
Good night, everyone.
[07:06:54] UNKNOWN:
. .