Complete transcript with timestamps and speaker identification.
[00:00:29] UNKNOWN:
Thank you. Thank you. Just a phrase and it is. Thank you. Thank you.
[00:17:19] Speaker 11:
Thank you.
[00:17:58] Speaker 06:
What can I do?
[00:18:11] Prosecutor:
I can turn them Where am I going?
[00:19:30] UNKNOWN:
Thank you. So this is the focus. you you . . . . you . .
[00:32:57] Judge:
Please be seated, please turn off your cell phones please.
[00:33:27] Judge:
Your Honor, in the matter of the Commonwealth versus Brian Walsh, Norfolk Superior Court, criminal indictment number 2023-0091. The matter is called for trial. Defendants present in court with his attorney Larry Tipton and Kelly Porges. Commonwealth is represented by ADA Greg Connor, Anne Yaz, and Tracy Cusick. Counsel, starting with the Commonwealth, kindly identify yourselves for the court and the record.
[00:33:47] Prosecutor:
Thank you, Madam Clerk. Good morning, Your Honor. Greg Connor for the Commonwealth.
[00:33:51] Prosecutor:
Morning. Good morning, Your Honor. Anne Yaz for the Commonwealth. Morning, Your Honor. Tracy Cusick for the Commonwealth.
[00:33:55] UNKNOWN:
Morning.
[00:33:56] Judge:
Good morning, Your Honor. Kelly Boyd is on behalf of Mr. Brian Walsh.
[00:34:00] Speaker 15:
Morning, Your Honor. Larry Tipton for Mr. Walsh.
[00:34:02] Judge:
Welcome around. Please be seated.
[00:34:10] Judge:
Let me start by a few things that I had on my radar for this morning and then a few things that you put on my radar last night. With regard to our panelists, I just want to put on the record, on the last day of jury panel, we saw 45 jurors. 30 of those answered yes to question five. Two were seated. One person answered yes to question eight. Zero people were seated. And I think if my math is accurate, and I'm sure one of you will correct me if I'm not, at the end of the panel, the Commonwealth exercised four peremptories, the defense exercised eight peremptories. There are a few motions that have been circulating in the last few hours, and I want to first address with the parties, It doesn't have a paper number, but has a title of defendant's motion and lemonade to exclude the evidence of the hole in the ceiling at the Walsh residence and the remainder of that, to which the Commonwealth opposed to. Either party wished to be heard on that in oral argument.
[00:35:32] Prosecutor:
No, Your Honor.
[00:35:34] Judge:
Your Honor, with respect to the ceiling, I'd rest on the papers. However, with the Richard Walker email, through an investigation, nothing ties this email ruse to Mr. Walsh. We have indicated that we have no intention on crossing on this, on making this an issue in the case. So it really is just a red herring that could be potentially inflammatory. It has no relevance. As the court knows, he pled to misleading. And this is not consciousness of guilt. This doesn't go to malice because nothing is tied to him. So I don't think it should be submitted to the jury.
[00:36:08] Judge:
Thank you.
[00:36:10] Prosecutor:
Your Honor, the email was being put in to show the thoroughness of the investigation. The police received it as one of the many tips. And they actually asked the defendant about the name in one of the interviews. And so that is why the Commonwealth was seeking to enter the email so it would show why the police were asking about this particular name.
[00:36:28] Judge:
The defense's motion is denied. The evidence will be admitted. It is relevant to the issues, even with regard to the issue of Richard Walker, the Commonwealth gets to prove its case and prove that it was thorough in its case. I'll permit it in my discretion. There's another motion that you raised by email to Madam Clerk yesterday or last night. with regard to the emails of Mr. Fastow. And I asked this morning, Madam Clerk, to ask you, what paper are you talking about? Because I know it was a long break, but I don't remember reviewing Mr. Fastow's emails since the time I reviewed them in connection with the grand jury. And that was in connection with the summer motions that we had. I got back. Oh, it's paper number 200. It's not paper number 200. Paper number 200 has to do with defendants' own text messages. So as a preliminary matter, we can handle it down the line unless somebody feels that they are going to have a problem with that in terms of your opening statements. You know what I mean? All right. So is there a problem with that not resolving that for the Commonwealth?
[00:38:05] Prosecutor:
I was going to reference a image that was sent to Mr. Fastow in my opening.
[00:38:11] Judge:
Is that the photo of Anna Walsh and her son?
[00:38:14] Prosecutor:
Yes. And the basis for that, Your Honor, is that Mr. Mutlu acknowledges in an interview that it was sent to Mr. Fastow that evening. And so that was where the good faith basis was to mention it. So I was intending to mention it. Also, the defendant acknowledged a text of that photo in one of the interviews.
[00:38:37] Judge:
All right. Is there a problem with that aspect of it?
[00:38:41] Judge:
So, Mr. Mutlu saying that someone told him that this photo was sent is hearsay. No, Mr. Mutlu sent the photo to Mr. No, what they're saying is that Anna Walsh sent the photo to Mr. Fastow in this series of text exchanges. So it's contained in the text messages that we're objecting to.
[00:39:02] Judge:
All right. What paper number is it?
[00:39:06] Judge:
Your Honor, this was the government's motion and limb to admit text messages.
[00:39:09] Judge:
That's of the defendant. That's a different issue entirely.
[00:39:13] Judge:
I don't know, Your Honor. They had moved to admit text messages. I don't know the paper number. It's just the...
[00:39:18] Judge:
It's the defendant's text messages that they moved to admit.
[00:39:21] Judge:
No, there were text messages. There's also, maybe it's the nature of the relationship. Is it that one you're thinking of, Ms. Cusick?
[00:39:36] Judge:
Somebody give me a paper number so I can get on the same page with you.
[00:39:39] Prosecutor:
Your honor, it's paper 200 is the commonwealth's motion to admit text messages. The last paragraph deals with Mr. Fastow and the victims' text messages.
[00:39:55] Judge:
To which I wrote in my effort to be ever transparent. This is going back to motion eliminating number 13, paper number 197. That's not the point.
[00:40:20] Prosecutor:
Your Honor, I believe I have in this paper number 199, which is Commonwealth's motion, Lemonade 13.
[00:40:26] Judge:
Here's what I'm going to suggest. The Commonwealth, I assume, intends to offer or this testimony would be offered through Mr. Fastow. When is he testifying?
[00:40:37] Prosecutor:
This week, Your Honor. I think maybe Thursday.
[00:40:39] Judge:
All right. Then we deal with it later on down the line.
[00:40:41] Prosecutor:
All right.
[00:40:43] Speaker 14:
Yes, Your Honor.
[00:40:45] Judge:
Now. The other motion that was filed, same question. And that has to do with the Commonwealth's motion to eliminate, to exclude the defendant from making any reference of his plea of guilty to the disinterument and to the lying to the police. Is that impacted by anyone's, is that going to, not ruling on that, is that going to impact anyone's opening?
[00:41:15] Prosecutor:
It will not affect the Commonwealth's opening. We're looking to avoid it.
[00:41:19] Judge:
It will not. It will not? It will not for opening, no. All right, so I just want to be as transparent and as clear as I can be on the record. So I have not ruled on that, which means failing to rule out at this point, which I'm happy to rule on it. I don't think the law is going to get any clearer because there is no law on this. But that means that's going to put limitations on the defense in terms of what you can open on, right?
[00:41:56] Speaker 15:
Yes, Your Honor, I understand.
[00:41:57] Judge:
All right. I just want to make sure that we're all speaking the same language.
[00:42:06] Speaker 15:
Judge, just so there's no surprise, there is a statement in my opening that said he lied to police. That doesn't trigger this issue.
[00:42:15] Judge:
He can say that. He can.
[00:42:21] Prosecutor:
Yes, Your Honor, I apologize.
[00:42:22] Judge:
Well, to the extent that you need to hear it out of my mouth, he can say that. He can say it. I misled the police. You can say a lie to the police. All right. Are there any more preliminary matters? We have 16 jurors in the House. My intention with regard to them is to inquire of them first thing now after I greet them and insure myself by asking them the three questions that I go through. It's actually four in this case because I added the social media, no social media, no news media. I'll presume for the sake of argument right now that all of them are going to have been obedient to that. If they aren't, of course we'll deal with it and we'll address it. And we'll go from there. If we get, we still have 16 in the box, we'll swear them in. And then we'll be off and running. Any questions about that? No. Come up.
[00:43:36] Prosecutor:
Your Honor, no question about that. There are some housekeeping matters. Council wished to have four witnesses recognized. I have them here. And in addition, we had a series of stipulations that we wanted to present to the court.
[00:43:49] Judge:
Okay.
[00:43:52] Prosecutor:
Sorry, I didn't want to interrupt you. And forgive me because I was focusing on the Richard Walker email. I didn't hear your judgment on the hole in the ceiling. On the what? The hole in the ceiling.
[00:44:04] Judge:
The entirety of that motion is denied.
[00:44:07] Prosecutor:
Okay. So with that, I could have the officers that Council wishes to recognize be brought in and we can have them recognize right now.
[00:44:15] Speaker 13:
Yeah.
[00:44:18] UNKNOWN:
Do you want to sign that?
[00:44:20] Speaker 15:
Sure. I'd like to bring up one issue.
[00:44:26] Judge:
Before this?
[00:44:27] Speaker 15:
It doesn't matter. I'll wait till they're recognized and then I'll bring it up.
[00:44:38] Judge:
All right, good morning, everyone. Just identify yourself for the record.
[00:44:44] Witness:
Good morning.
[00:44:44] Judge:
Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. So you're all in here because the defense wants to want you to be recognized, which means that you're under court order. You need to make yourself available for this trial whenever you're told and the lawyers will be back in contact with you when you are actually needed as the case goes along, do you understand? And you agree to come back? All right, thank you very much.
[00:45:24] Prosecutor:
Your honor, I'm handing up to the clerk three series of stipulations. One is concerning the Richard Walker email now that it's going to be admissible. We believe that that stipulation could be read to the jury. There is also a stipulation concerning the chain of custody of the known DNA samples, which would negate the need to call certain witnesses from the FBI. And then finally, there's stipulations. This third one does not need to be read to the jury, but it's just for the record and could be marked as for ID concerning financial records. And so we were going to, have that. And then also, I believe we have a stipulation concerning the federal conviction and federal charges.
[00:46:08] Judge:
All right. So I'll have these all marked for identification at this point. I don't usually send stipulations to the jury. I just consider it like any other evidence and by sending it in as a special something, it seems to me to improperly highlight that evidence. They've got to remember what the stipulations are. That said, if they ask me back what the stipulations were, I typically answer that question, but I don't send them in. So I'll have them marked individually for identification. Where are we right now with regard to that? All right, D for dog is the stipulation regarding Richard Walker. E will be the stipulation regarding the DNA samples of Anna Walsh and Brian Walsh. F will be the stipulation regarding authentication of records. And G will be the stipulation regarding the federal prosecution of the defendant. And when we get to the point in the case that you wish me to read those stipulations, just cue me by ID number, that this is the time you want them to be read.
[00:47:13] Prosecutor:
Thank you, Your Honor.
[00:47:14] Judge:
All right.
[00:47:17] Prosecutor:
That's it for the Commonwealth for housekeeping.
[00:47:18] Judge:
All right. Attorney Tipton.
[00:47:21] Speaker 15:
First, the preliminary instructions, we're asking that no consciousness of guilt preliminary instruction be given.
[00:47:28] Judge:
I don't have one in there. All I have is the elements of first degree murder by premeditation and the normal, beyond a reasonable doubt, and presumption of innocence, all that stuff. But there's nothing about COG in there.
[00:47:42] Speaker 15:
Okay. And secondly, our understanding was that the sentencing was going to occur today.
[00:47:46] Judge:
Are we wrong about that? I don't know that we set the date to take place, but I also don't think it's going to have bearing on the ruling on that other motion if you're concerned about that.
[00:48:04] Speaker 15:
I guess the next question is, does the court know when sentencing would be scheduled?
[00:48:08] Judge:
Well, we can talk about it. Nobody was pressing the issue, but now maybe that's changed. I think when we took the plea last Tuesday, or maybe it was the Tuesday before, right, we had talked about giving the Commonwealth sufficient time to get a victim impact statement in. I haven't seen that at some point. It sort of felt to me like maybe we just do it all together if there's a conviction at the end. If not, I'll just sentence him on the other two charges. But I don't have any firm beliefs about whether it needs to be done before or after. So if either party wants me to do it sooner rather than later, Put the other side on notice that the victim impact statements need to be to me by a certain date so that I can consider them. And if there's anything beyond in writing that the defense wants me to consider, I'm happy to consider that too.
[00:49:03] Speaker 15:
So we'll talk to the government.
[00:49:05] Judge:
All right. Sounds good. indictment, singularly.
[00:50:56] UNKNOWN:
Thank you.
[00:51:42] Speaker 13:
You may stay.
[00:52:21] Judge:
Hear ye, hear ye, hear ye. All persons having an interview for your honorable Justice Danyan for near. Justice of the Norfolk Superior Court, Dron Deer, give your attendance and you shall be heard. I'll just have the call of the Massachusetts in this honorable court. Please be seated. Please turn off your cell phones.
[00:52:39] Judge:
Good morning, jurors. Good morning. It's nice to see you all as a group for the first time. Jurors, I hope you all had a nice holiday. break and we're here to start the trial today. Before we go take any steps to further the trial, I want to go over with you and ask you each individually as a group what you're going to answer individually, whether you were able to comply with my orders that I placed on you when you were on panel. So the way I do it is I'm going to ask you the question, there's four questions, and then I'm going to ask you to answer once verbally yes or no. And then nod your head yes or no until you and I make eye contact. And I will scan first from the left rear to the right and front left to the right. And keep on nodding until you really know that I connected. Sometimes you think I connected and I didn't and then I'll have a long pause. Sounds more complicated than this. It's really quite simple. Jurors, were you able to comply with my order that you not speak to anyone about this case? Were you able to comply with my order that you not do any research about this case? Were you able to comply with my order that you not go on social media or access any news media? And you all still have open minds. With those four questions all answered in the affirmative by each juror, We're ready to begin today's work.
[00:54:42] Judge:
Members of the jury, if you could please stand and raise your right hands for me. Do each of you solemnly swear or affirm that you will well and truly try the issue between the Commonwealth and the defendant according to the law and the evidence? So help you God. Thank you all. You may be seated. Members of the jury, harken to the indictments returned by the Norfolk County Grand Jury. Mr. Walsh, if you could stand, please. Norfolk Criminal Indictment Number 2023-0091 alleges that Brian Walsh of Cocasset in the county of Norfolk on or about January 1st, 2023 at Cocasset in the county of Norfolk did assault and beat Anna Walsh with intent to murder her. And by such assault and beating did kill and murder said Anna Walsh in violation of Mass General Law Chapter 265, Section 1. Members of the jury, to this indictment, the defendant has pleaded that he is not guilty and he has placed himself before his country, which country you are, for trial. If he is guilty, you shall say so and no more. If he is not guilty, you will say so and no more. Thank you, Mr. Walsh. You can be seated.
[00:55:56] Judge:
Thank you, Madam Clerk. The jurors, as I told you in the impoundment period, you will be responsible for deciding this case. Please pay careful attention to the evidence that you'll see and hear during this trial. When the evidence is complete, I will explain the legal rules that you must apply to decide this case. We will then meet in private to discuss and consider the evidence, apply those rules, and work together to reach a unanimous verdict. Before we start the trial itself, I'm giving you some initial instructions. also known as the pre-charge. I will explain the indictment that Madam Clerk just read aloud and describe what will happen during the trial. I will explain my role as the judge, the lawyer's important role, and your role as jurors. I will discuss some of the legal rules that apply to this case, and I will explain and remind you of some important things you must do and must not do during this trial. A moment ago, Madam Clerk read the language of the indictment in this case. An indictment is a legal document that formally accuses someone of a crime. The indictment in this case charges Mr. Walsh with committing murder. The indictment is not evidence in this case, and the fact that the defendant is facing This charge does not mean that he is guilty of committing any crime. As I told you when we were choosing you as jurors, the defendant has pleaded not guilty to the charge. And at the end of the trial, you, the jury, will decide whether the prosecution has proved the charge beyond a reasonable doubt. Let me give you an outline of the trial. When I finish these initial instructions, the prosecutor and the defense will make their opening statements. An opening statement is a summary of what the lawyer expects the evidence will show. After the opening statements, you will hear testimony from various witnesses. The evidence may also include documents and other things. The prosecution will call witnesses first. Then the defendant will have the chance to call additional witnesses if he chooses to do so. Both sides may question each witness. After you see and hear all of the evidence, each side will make their closing arguments to summarize the evidence and suggest conclusions you may reach based on the evidence and the law. The lawyer's opening statements and their closing arguments may help you make sense of the evidence. you see and hear during this trial. But the openings and the closings are not evidence. At the end of the trial, I will instruct you in detail on the legal rules that you must apply in deciding this case. And I give them to you both orally, as I'm doing now, but you get written copies of the charge that go back with you as well. We will then discuss the case in private and work together as a jury to agree on a verdict. Let me next address the roles of everybody in this courtroom, and I'll start with myself first. As a judge, I am responsible to make sure this case is tried fairly efficiently and according to the law. I must make sure that you see and hear only evidence that's allowed under what we call our rules of evidence. Those rules determine what evidence the lawyers may and may not present to you. The purpose of these rules is to make sure that what you see and hear during this trial is relevant to the case and appropriate for you to consider. If one of the lawyers says objection, that means that that lawyer thinks a particular answer or an exhibit that's being offered violates those rules of evidence. If I'm not persuaded by the objection, I will say overruled. That means that the witness may answer the question or the other party may show you the exhibit and you may consider the answer or the exhibit as evidence. If I instead say sustained, that means that the witness may not answer the question or that the proffering party may not show you the exhibit because under our rules you may not consider the answer or the exhibit. If I sustain an objection, you may not talk about or try to guess or speculate what the answer might have been. There are times when I may say to you, disregard something or allow a motion to strike something that you've already heard or seen. If that happens, that means that the testimony or exhibit that I strike, you must disregard it and you may not consider it. As the judge in the case throughout the trial, there may be times when I give you mid-trial instructions on a particular area of law. And at the end of the trial, I will give you as I said those detailed oral and written instructions. Let me next talk about the role of the lawyers. The lawyers in this case have their own important role. Their job is to bring to your attention the evidence and arguments that best support their position. They may also object to evidence as I just mentioned offered by the other side. Please don't hold it against any of the lawyers if they make an objection. The lawyers have to let me know when they think there's a potential evidentiary issue that I need to decide. Let me next talk about your role. Jurors, you have the most important role in this trial. After you have heard and seen all of the evidence in the case, you will decide who and what to believe. Whether the prosecution has proved the defendant is guilty of the crime charge based on the legal principles I explained to you. You must decide this case based only on the evidence you see and hear inside this courtroom and on my instructions on the law. You may not decide this case based on suspicion, guesswork, or speculation. The evidence consists of the testimony of the witnesses that you'll see from this witness stand. as you would call it, and any other documents or things that become exhibits in the case. Other things that you see and hear during this trial are not evidence. Again, opening statements and closing arguments, not evidence. And the questions that the attorneys ask, they're not evidence either. A witness's answers are evidence, but a lawyer's questions are not. A very important part of your job as jurors is to decide who and what to believe. Whether testimony is contradicted or it is not, it is up to you to decide whether you believe it. You may believe everything a witness says, art or what a witness says, or none of it. The same is true of each exhibit. You must decide whether you believe what it shows or you do not. In deciding who and what to believe, you should ask and consider some important questions first. Was the witness honestly trying to tell the truth or deliberately lying? Though witnesses take an oath to tell the truth, sometimes a witness says things that a witness knows are false. If you conclude that a witness lied to you about something, then of course you should not believe that part of the testimony. Second, was the witness accurate or did the witness get something wrong without meaning to do so? Sometimes a witness may recall seeing or hearing something but still be mistaken. If you conclude that a witness tried to be truthful but that some part of that person's testimony wasn't accurate, then you should not consider the inaccurate testimony. I have no opinion about who or what you should believe or about how you should decide this case. So please don't take anything that I do or say throughout this trial to suggest to you what you should believe or how you should decide this case. I want to next talk about fairness. Our system of justice depends on judges like me and jurors like you being able and willing to make careful and fair decisions. All people deserve fair and equal treatment in our system of justice, regardless of their race, national origin, religion, age, ability, gender, sexual orientation, education, income level, or any other personal characteristic. You have agreed to be fair, and I'm sure that you want to be fair, but it's not always easy. One difficulty comes from our own built-in expectations and assumptions, and they exist even if we're not aware of them, and even if we believe we don't have them. Some of you may have heard of this as implicit bias, and that's what I'm talking about now. As a judge, I have the same problem as everyone else, so let me share a few strategies that I found to be useful. First, Slow down. Don't rush to any decision. Hasty decisions are more likely to reflect stereotypes or hidden biases. Second, keep an open mind. Avoid drawing conclusions until the end of the case when you and your fellow jurors deliberate. Remember that when you deliberate, you will have all the evidence and all the time you need to make a careful decision. So there truly is no need to start making your mind up for them. you should listen closely to the witnesses. That's the best way to ensure that you decide this case based on the evidence in the law instead of upon unsupported assumptions. Fourth, as you listen to the testimony about the people involved in this case, consider them as individuals rather than as members of any particular group. Finally, I might ask myself, would I view the evidence differently if the people were from different groups? such as different racial, ethnic, or gender identity groups. At the end of the case, I will remind you of these strategies and ask you to focus on the evidence instead of any unsupported assumptions you may have. All we ask is that you, individually and as a group, do your best to resolve this case based on the evidence and the law without sympathy, bias, or prejudice to the best of your ability as human beings. I want to turn now to certain legal principles and rules that you must follow in this case. And I will discuss these again in more detail at the end of the case. But here are some key things that you need to know from the beginning. First, let me talk to you about the presumption of innocence. As I told you during the jury selection process, every person who is accused of a crime is presumed to be innocent of the crime. Mr. Walsh is presumed innocent of the charge in this case. That means that you must consider Mr. Walsh to be innocent now and must still consider him to be innocent at the end of the trial unless the prosecution has proved beyond a reasonable doubt through evidence presented during the trial that the defendant committed the crime of charge. And I will explain what I mean by reasonable doubt in just a moment. does not have to do anything to convince you he is innocent. He does not have to explain anything to the jury. The defendant does not have to testify, call or question any witnesses, or provide any evidence at all, because you must presume he is innocent. Instead, it is up to the Commonwealth to prove the charge against the defendant beyond a reasonable doubt. This burden of proof never shifts to the defendant. At the end of the trial, after you've seen and heard all of the evidence, you will deliberate with each other, meaning you'll discuss the evidence and decide on a unanimous verdict. If you have a reasonable doubt about the defendant's guilt on the charge, then your verdict must be not guilty on the charge. You may find the defendant guilty of the charge only if all 12 deliberating jurors agree that the Commonwealth has proved the charge beyond a reasonable doubt. So the burden is on the Commonwealth to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty of the charge made against him. What is proof beyond a reasonable doubt? The term is often used and probably pretty well understood, though it's not easily defined. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt does not mean proof beyond all possible doubt. for everything in the lives of human beings is open to some possible or imaginary doubt. A charge is proved beyond a reasonable doubt if, after you have compared and considered all of the evidence, you have in your minds an abiding conviction to a moral certainty that the charge is true. When we refer to moral certainty, we mean the highest degree of certainty possible in matters relating to human affairs, based solely on the evidence that has been put before you in this case. I have told you that every person is presumed to be innocent until he or she is proved guilty and that the burden of proof is on the prosecutor. If you evaluate the evidence and you still have a reasonable doubt remaining, the defendant is entitled to the benefit of that doubt and must be acquitted. It is not enough for the Commonwealth to establish a probability, even a strong probability, that the defendant is more likely to be guilty than not guilty. That is not enough. the evidence must convince you of the defendant's guilt to a reasonable and moral certainty, a certainty that convinces your understanding and satisfies your reason and judgment as jurors were sworn to act conscientiously on the evidence. That is what I mean by proof beyond a reasonable doubt. I've told you that the Commonwealth must prove the charge here beyond a reasonable doubt. To do so, it must prove each element or component part of the charge beyond a reasonable doubt. As I said, the charge here is murder. And the Commonwealth is proceeding on the charge of first degree murder on a theory of deliberate premeditation. In order to prove the defendant guilty of murder on the theory of deliberate premeditation, The Commonwealth must prove five elements beyond a reasonable doubt. First, that the defendant caused the death of Anna Walsh. Second, that the defendant intended to kill Anna Walsh. That is, the defendant consciously and purposefully intended to cause Anna Walsh's death. Third, that the defendant committed the killing with deliberate premeditation. That is, he decided to kill after a period of reflection. Fourth, that the defendant did not act in proper self-defense or proper defense of another. And fifth, that there were no mitigating circumstances. Those are the basic five elements. And really, Jurors, what I'm trying you to absorb at this point is that there are five component parts. And each of those component parts, the Commonwealth needs to prove again beyond a reasonable doubt. Let me talk about some of the housekeeping matters that you may be thinking about. One of truth you may ask about this actually when you're being selected as jurors. And I'll start first with note taking. At the end of the trial, when you meet in private to deliberate, you will have all of the exhibits with you. We cannot provide you a transcript of any of the witnesses' testimony, however. So you're going to have to rely on your own memories of what each witness said to you. You may take notes during the trial, if you wish, and our court officers will pass out at an appropriate time a notepad and a writing implement, a pen or a pencil, I don't know what we have here today. Some jurors find it helpful to take notes while listening to the evidence. It may help you focus on the testimony and to remember what witnesses said. Some of you may not want to take any notes, and that's perfectly fine too. Whether you take notes or not is entirely up to you. Whether you take notes or you do not, you need to pay close attention to each witness and what they say. In deciding who and what to believe, you should watch and listen carefully to each witness. Think about whether the witness seems believable, whether the witness's memory seems reliable, and anything else about how the witness testifies and what the witness says that helps you determine whether and how much to believe that witness. When you deliberate at the end of the trial, remember that it is your memory that counts. Your notes may help jog your memory about what a witness said, but they are not a substitute for what you and your fellow jurors remember about the testimony. Do not assume that because you or another juror wrote something down, that it is more accurate than your or another juror's memory of what the witness actually said. Your notes are confidential. No one, including me, will read them. The court officers will collect your notebooks and your writing implements at the end of each trial day and will keep them safe and they'll be returned to you the following morning. And at the end of the trial, I will order the court officers to destroy any notes that were taken. Next talk, I want to talk about your comfort. If you have any trouble seeing anything, hearing anything, if you need an unscheduled break, please raise your hand and one of the court officers will come over and make the necessary adjustments. I remind you that we take a morning break at about 11 o'clock, and that's usually about 20 minutes to 30 minutes, depending on what I have to do during that time. And then we proceed on to the lunch hour at one o'clock. We take a break from one to two. And then the afternoon session is the longest session, two hours long between the hours of two and four. So you can predict how your day will lay out most days that you're here. If you need to communicate with me at any point during the trial, again, let one of the court officers know and they'll get me the information. And do it through a note is the best way. Finally, jurors, I'm not going to give you the longer version of this because I just asked you about this this morning. But it's imperative to the administration of justice in each criminal case and in this one that you abide by those rules that you agreed to. If anybody needs another written version of the order that I gave to you, I have plenty of them. Don't hesitate to ask. But I remind you, no social media, no news media. Don't do any research about this case on any media. Don't talk to anyone about this case. And continue to have open minds as you listen to the evidence in the case. It's the first thing that I'm going to ask you every morning, and it's the last thing you're going to hear me remind you of every night. All right? to the lawyers at the cyber bench. I know that you will try this case according to the oath that you took this morning. In that oath, you promised you would well and truly try the issues between the Commonwealth and the defendant according to the evidence and the law. If you follow that oath, approach this case with an open mind, and make your decisions fairly, without prejudice or bias or sympathy for anyone, then you will arrive at a just and fair verdict. It's now time for the opening statements. And you will find that there are many customs in the law that dictate how the case plays out. And the first custom I'll alert you to is that the Commonwealth opens the case first. A.D.A. Connor. Thank you, Your Honor.
[01:19:51] Speaker 14:
May I please report?
[01:19:53] Judge:
It does.
[01:19:57] Prosecutor:
On January 4, 2023, Theresa Marchese returned to work at the New Year's Hall. She works at Tishman Spire, and she is the director of human capital management. That is to say that she's the director of human resources. And Tishman Spire is a real estate management company, but it's a global real estate management. It has buildings all over the world. And this office that Ms. Marchese works in is in Washington, D.C. When she returned to her office in Washington, D.C. that morning, she was alerted that one of her co-workers' husbands was trying to find her co-worker. The co-worker was Anna Walsh, and her husband is Brian Walsh. Teresa Marchese knew Anna Walsh because she hired her. She hired her in February, 2022. to work at the Washington, D.C. office of Tishman Spot, and to manage some of those buildings in Washington, D.C. She also knew that Anna Walsh commuted from Cohasset to Washington to work at Tishman Spot, and that her husband, Ryan, and her three children were still in Cohasset at this time.
[01:21:18] Speaker 14:
She also knew where Anna Walsh lived in Washington, D.C.
[01:21:22] Prosecutor:
Anna Walsh had bought a townhouse right near where Theresa Marchese lives in Washington. So when she heard that Brian Walsh was looking for Anna, she got concerned.
[01:21:34] Speaker 14:
And she spoke to her boss, Jeff Chow. And the two of them went into a conference room and called Brian Walsh. Brian was calm. And he said that on January 1st, Anna left their Cohasset home
[01:21:52] Prosecutor:
for a work emergency and had to fly back to Washington DC. And he hasn't spoken to her since then. This is the longest they've ever gone without speaking. So, Theresa Marchese went and drove to Anna Walsh's townhouse. She took another employee with her, and on the way there, she had another conversation with Brian Walsh. Brian was calm. and he gave her the combination to the garage so Ms. Marchese could get into the building. Ms. Marchese got there, she was able to look in the windows, nothing was broken, nothing was out of order. She got into the garage and she found some cardboard boxes that had yet to be unpacked, some car seats, no car, no on a watch.
[01:22:48] Speaker 14:
Now the door from the garage to the home, that was locked. because she couldn't get inside.
[01:22:55] Prosecutor:
So, Ms. Marchese called Mr. Walsh back again, and she told him that she was going to loop into this conversation Titus Fier's global head of security, who also works in Washington, D.C. His name is Hugh Dunleavy. He's a retired Secret Service agent. Mr. Walsh has come. Mr. Dunleavy is looped into this conversation on the phone, and Mr. Walsh is dimensioning. He becomes very upset. Mr. Dunleavy calms him down, asks him a series of questions, and Mr. Walsh repeats. Anna left the home in cohesive on January 1st to come to Washington, D.C. for a work emergency. Mr. Dunleavy follows up. Have you called the police? What is the local police department in your town? You live in Cohasset. You need to call the police. The call ends. Mr. Dunleavy works with the Washington police and helps facilitate them getting into the home in Washington, D.C. And Ana is not there. He also calls the Cohasset police just before noon on January 4th. he reports Ana missing. Hugh Dunleavy from Washington DC calls the Cohasset police and that is the first time Ana Walsh has been reported missing to the police. It was done just before noon on January 4th and no one has seen her since January 1st. Over the next few weeks, it'll be the honor of Ms. Cusick, Ms. Yaz, and myself to represent the column. And in that time, we will prove the defendant guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of the premeditated murder of his wife, Anna Walsh. And we're gonna do that by presenting evidence. And evidence will come to you, as her honor pointed out, in two different forms. One is kind of tangible.
[01:25:15] Speaker 14:
You'll see photos of the family home in Cohasset at 516 Chief Justice Cushing Highway, you'll see videos from different stores. You'll see Anna Walsh's banking records. You will also see objects, like a kyvex suit, like a hatchet, like a hacksaw.
[01:25:40] Prosecutor:
Now, in addition to those objects, You will hear from witnesses, witnesses like Teresa Marchese and Drew Dunleavy, who I just mentioned. You'll also hear from a group of witnesses that are Anna Walsh's friends and colleagues. They will tell you that Anna was 39 years old in January 2003. She was married to a defendant. She had three children. They'll tell you that she was a Serbian immigrant, that she came to this country and began working in the hospitality industry by working in hotels in Washington and Massachusetts. and that she transitioned to real estate. She got the opportunity to work for Jen Loot Loot, who had his own real estate company. She actually wound up running that company for him. That was until February, 2022, where she got what Brian Walsh would refer to as a dream job, where she got to work for Kish & Spire, and she would make more money than she had ever made before in her career. She had purchased a townhouse in Washington, D.C., and she was expecting to have her family come with her. However, Ryan and the children had stayed in Massachusetts. And the reason was, is that Ryan had previously pled guilty to a count of fraud in the Boston Federal District Courthouse. But he hadn't been sentenced yet. Now he was accused of owing over $400,000 of restitution, At this point in time, Anna was the breadwinner for the family, and she had moved to D.C. She was still commuting back and forth, but looking to have the family join her in D.C. And Brian, too. However, when she bought the townhouse, she did this with the aid of a person by the real estate agent by the name of William Fastow. She was introduced to this to Fastow from her former boss, Jim Rubin. Fastow will testify. And he will tell you that they became friends, and that friendship became romantic. And that carried on into November of 2022, when Anna needed to go visit her mother, who was sick back in Belgrade, Serbia. Anna flew to Dublin Island the weekend of Thanksgiving, and Mr. Fast out-joined her for that weekend. She then flew and visited her sick mother in Serbia, and then would return back to the United States. Mr. Fastow, after double, would go back to Washington, D.C. But Anna missed Thanksgiving with Brian and the children. And then on Christmas Eve that same year, Anna went out to dinner with Mr. Fastow. They went out to dinner in Annapolis with another couple. And she stayed the night. And she was supposed to get a flight out on Christmas Eve. But she couldn't get a flight. So she had to drive up from Washington, D.C. to Colhasse. And she missed Christmas Eve and mostly Christmas Day with Brian. She would fly back to Washington, D.C. and on December 29th, she would go to dinner with one of her friends, who will testify before you. And that friend will say that she was uncharacteristic, tired, and emotional. You'll also hear from a series of witnesses that dealt with Anna Walsh, right before New Year's. She returned back to Cohasset on December 30th, and she was going to stay with the family until January 3rd. You'll hear how she went to a bar class, V-A-R-R-E. It's an intensive ballet class. You'll hear from the instructor who will say that she did extremely well in that class. A person who was with her in a nail salon will testify. She got her nails done on New Year's Eve. And Mr. Moogloo, we'll test it. He went over to the Walsh family residence on New Year's Eve for dinner. Three adults were there. It was Mr. Moogloo, Brian, and Anna. He got there around 8.30. He brought some snacks for the kids. Actually got to play with the oldest child. And he spent the night talking to his friends. He characterized them as jovial. They shared champagne. They weren't drunk. They were enjoying the new year. He actually signed the champagne box. And you'll see that, where they were looking forward to the new year. Brian comes. Brian was attentive. Brian also said to Mr. Mootlue that night that he had lost his phone. It had been misplaced, but he had felt free as a result of it. Mr. Mootlue left that home on New Year's Day at 1.30 a.m. And there was no mention No mention of a work emergency in Washington, D.C. that would require Ana to fly out or leave the family home at 6 or 7 a.m. that day. Now on January 4th, after Hugh Dunleavy had called the Cohasset Police Department, the Cohasset Police Department dispatched Officer Greg Lorenz to go speak to Mr. Walsh at his home. Officer Lawrence went. He was met outside by Brian Walsh. Brian Walsh informed Officer Lawrence that Anna had left on January 1st, had taken an Uber or Lyft to Logan Airport to fly out to Washington, D.C. for a work emergency. Gave her a phone number for Anna Walsh, described her as 5.2, that she was 39 years old, approximately 115 pounds. He hadn't heard from them. Officer Lorenz went back to the Cohasset Police Department, worked with other Cohasset police officers, trying to find any connection to Uber or Lyft or local taxicabs. Cohasset police would then begin the process of pinging on his phone. You're going to get to see the records from that, but essentially the process involves the cell phone carrier, in this case Verizon, sending a signal onto the phone to try and locate him. And the Verizon records will show that the last time that phone that belonged to Anna Walsh interacted with the network was shortly after 3 a.m. on January 2nd. And when it did so, it was in the area of the Walsh house. That same day, Cohasset police also tasked Detective Schmidt with investigating this case. He and Officer Marantz We go back to the Walsh family residence at 516, Chief Justice Pritchett Highland, and interview Brian Walsh. And he recorded it. You'll get to hear the recording. And Brian will talk about how Anna was commuting back and forth from Cohasset to Washington for work, how there were some issues with his federal case, and how Mr. Mootloo had come over dinner that night on New Year's Eve and how Anna had to leave between 67th on January 1st. He also in that interview described what Anna was wearing when she left the house. Blue gray hunter boots, a black jacket, and a pyramid watch. The sergeant will testify before you and he will tell you that he worked on this missing person investigation and called in additional resources to help. On the fifth, he had his own department do a search of the woods near the family home. On the sixth, he called in a task force made of several different police departments to do further searching of the woods in and around the Walsh family home. Contacting the state police to use their resources He also got the opportunity to speak to Mr. Walsh on January 5th, January 7th, and January 8th. And when he did those interviews, he was accompanied by detectives from the state police. And those interviews were recorded. You'll get to hear those interviews. And Mr. Walsh, during those interviews, will explain that he and Anna were happily married. He had no knowledge of any extramarital affair, that Ana had her dream job, that it was taking care of the family, and conversely, he didn't take a salary this year out of his company that was a consulting company. He told the police that he owed over $400,000 in restitution on his federal matter, that this case was causing stress on his marriage, that he might have to go to jail? He said that they were very happy and that the biggest problem was that they were apart. Brian also told the police that Ana's job had caused her to miss Christmas Eve and Christmas Day with her family. And that Ana traveling to visit her sick mom caused her to miss Thanksgiving with the family. And that he did not want to have an argument with Donna about missing another holiday on January 1st. He had had a discussion with her about Christmas Day. He was concerned that by him looking around trying to find her, that she embarrassed her. So he tells the police, I didn't want to have an argument with her. So I understood she was going to come back, and she left for that emergency abort. You'll also have access to financial records that will show that Anna Walsh had approximately $200,000 in accounts of Fidelity, and that there was over a million dollars in life insurance in Anna Walsh, and that Brian Walsh was the beneficiary of those policies. In addition to the cohesive police, the Massachusetts State Police also worked with them on trying to find Anna. You're going to hear from two troopers in particular, Trooper Nicholas Lurino and Trooper Connor Keefe. They are digital forensic specialists. They have special training in examining computers, tablets, phones. And in this matter, they had the opportunity to examine a MacBook, iPads, and cell phones that were at the Walsh house.
[01:37:02] Speaker 14:
And they will explain.
[01:37:04] Prosecutor:
that on Christmas day, when Anna had missed Christmas Eve and was after spending the evening with Mr. Fastow and was driving up from watching VC, the cell phone that Brian Walsh was using looked up Mr. Fastow in the internet. And that on December 27th, a MacBook that used the Apple ID for Brian Walsh, between 8.30 and nine o'clock, researched best strategies to divorce for a man, best state to divorce for a man, Washington, D.C. divorce laws. On December 29th, Brian Walsh's cell phone was researching buildings that Anna Walsh managed for Tishman's fire and emergencies she had handled for them in the past. Cooper Griorino will also explain to you the internet history of that MacBook that had Brian Walsh's Apple ID beginning on January 1st.
[01:38:23] Speaker 14:
At 4.54 a.m., the MacBook searched best way to dispose of a body.
[01:38:33] Prosecutor:
and then with the similar websites, more than now.
[01:38:38] Speaker 14:
At 6.24 a.m., same day, the same device, search how long for someone to missing to inherit?
[01:38:52] Prosecutor:
How long missing to be dead? Can you throw away body parts? Later on that morning on January 1st at 9.33 a.m., the MacBook went to search, how long does DNA last? And then an article, is it possible to clean DNA off a knife? 30 minutes later, the MacBook researched the disposal of a cell phone. At 10.28 a.m., the MacBook researched, I am the user of my wife's credit card, she is missing. And again, on January 1st, At 1128 AM, it surged. Best way to dispose of body parts after a murder. Trooper Guarino will explain the numerous websites and searches done by the MacBook in the morning and early afternoon on January 1st, and that these websites were about cleaning blood with ammonia, bleach, and hydrogen peroxide. Websites visited included those as whether it is better to throw away crime scene clothes or wash them. One site was entitled, you want to get away with murder? Use a special detergent. This type of activity on the MacBook continued into January 2nd when it looked up how long does Lowe's keep security putting?
[01:40:25] Speaker 14:
How to saw a body. how to dismember a body. Can you be charged with murder without a body?
[01:40:37] Prosecutor:
Can you identify a body with broken teeth? The Macbook also visited websites for apartment complexes in Brockton and Chelsea. One in particular, Chatham West in Brockton. Brian Walsh told investigators that his phone, which was an iPhone 13 mini, had been misplaced and not found until the afternoon of January 2nd, 2023. When investigators examined that phone, they learned that it had been connected to a power source. It had been unlocked four times by either using the face or the passcode. Investigators will also tell you that the location data from that phone showed that it remained in the Walsh residence until the afternoon of January 2nd, 2023. However, there was another phone in the Walsh residence, an iPhone SE, which belonged to one of the children. When investigators examined the location data from that phone, they found that on January 1st, the phone traveled to a Walgreens in Colhasset, then to a liquor store, nearby the defendant's mother's home, the department complex in Swampstead. To a CVS in Danvers, to a Lowe's in Danvers, and to a stock and shop in Swampstead. You will see the surveillance video from those stores. You will see the video from Walgreens, where a white man with dark hair, using a credit card, buys Band-Aids and antibiotics. You'll see on the surveillance video at the CVS in Danvers that a white man with dark hair, now wearing a mask, buys hydrogen peroxide using cash. You'll see the surveillance video from the stock and shop in Swampstone, where a white man then goes buys ammonia with cash. And you'll see the surveillance video from the Lowe's in Danvers. where a white man wearing a mask and dark hair buys several items that cost more than $400 using cash, including a Tyvek suit, cutting instruments such as shears, snips, and a hacksaw. The investigators will explain how the cell phone location data from the iPhone SE shows that it went to a Home Goods in the morning of January 2nd and that Brian's iPhone 13 mini went to a Home Depot in Rockland in the afternoon of January 2nd. You will see the surveillance videos from those stores. You will see a white man with dark hair at Home Goods buying scented candles and area lights. And you'll see a white man with dark hair at the Home Depot buying more cleaning supplies. 20 pounds of baking soap, moth, buckets, and a hatchet. The investigators will also explain to you that Brian Walsh's cell phone on January 3rd was located near apartment complexes in Bronson. You will see the surveillance videos from some of those apartment complexes, including one of Chad and Wes. You will see someone going to the dumpster and then leaving. The investigators will also tell you that on January 5th, Brian Walsh's son was in the area of dumpsters in a trash container by his mother's apartment complex in Swanson, and that this was before he was interviewed by Detective Schmidt later that night. On January 9th, the police went to those dumpsters, and they took that trash compactor and that dumpster to a facility in Peabody, where they searched the contents of both. And they found, in their merry's watch, blue-gray hunter boots. a black coat, a COVID vaccination card with Anna Walsh's name on it, rugs, a Tyvek suit, a hammer, shears, snips, a hatchet, and a hacksaw. The police will tell you that these items were packaged and brought back to a laboratory And they were brought there for examination. And how some of these items were examined for DNA. And the DNA was compared to samples they had from Anna and Ryan. Scientists from the state DNA lab will identify DNA of Ryan Walsh and Anna Walsh on a Tyvek suit. They will explain that Anna Walsh's DNA was found in items in the dumpster, including drugs, the hatchet, and the hacksaw. Jen Mootlue said goodbye to Anna Walsh about 1 o'clock, 1.30 a.m. on New Year's Day. When he left, she was home. She was alive. She was with her husband. No one has seen her since her husband said she left on January 1st. She has not accessed her finances. Her email, her phone has made no calls, and no one has found her body. During this case, we asked two things. The first is that you keep an open mind. Do not rush to judgment, but instead, see how all the evidence fits together.
[01:47:07] Speaker 14:
Pay careful attention to the timing of certain events.
[01:47:11] Prosecutor:
And second, use your common sense. Don't leave it home. Bring it with you here as you make your examination of everything. And at the end of this trial, we will speak to you one more time. And at that time, we will ask that you find the defendant guilty of murdering his wife with deliverable medication.
[01:47:37] Judge:
Thank you. Thank you, ADA Connor. Chair, why don't you take a break and stand up and shake a leg. And when you're comfortable, I'm gonna bring in your focus. You may be seated. Now we'll hear from the defense for the opening statements. Attorney Tipton.
[01:48:08] Speaker 15:
Thank you, Your Honor. Brian Walsh. Why don't you please? Lie to him on January 4th. Lie to him on January 5th. Lie to him on January 7th. Brian Walsh went to Lowe's and bought tools. Brian Walsh went to Home Depot and bought tools. Brian Walsh, beginning about four, You will hear evidence that those searches evolved from how best to dispose a body to even darker subject matter as he wrestled with the fact that Anna Walsh was dead. That evidence that you will hear will be hard to understand, but it is true. On January 1st of 2023, Jim Mutlow left the family home of Brian and Anna Walsh sometime between 1 and 1.30 in the morning. Anna and Brian Walsh continued to celebrate the New Year. They went upstairs to the bedroom. About an hour later, you'll hear evidence that Mr. Walsh got up, went back down the stairs to clean the kitchen. You'll see evidence that he looked at his email. You'll hear evidence that he then returned to the bedroom intending nothing more than to crawl into bed with Anna Walsh, the woman he loved. When he entered the bedroom and began to get into the bed, he sensed something was wrong. You will hear evidence that it made no sense to him. But he nudged Anna, his wife. She didn't respond. He nudged her again a little harder. She didn't respond. He nudged her now in a frantic and panic reaction to where she actually rolled off the bed. You'll hear evidence that now he is panicking and he doesn't understand what has happened and what is happening. It didn't make any sense to him. It didn't make sense that somebody that he had just been with and enjoyed New Year's Eve into New Year's Day would suddenly be dead. Not even. You will hear evidence in this case of sudden unexplained death. You will hear evidence that it is real. You will hear evidence that it happens in young people and old people. You will hear evidence that it happens in male and female. You will hear evidence that it happens during the day and during the night. That it happens. You are trained athletes. You will hear evidence that it can be the result of both mechanical and are electrical problems within the body. You will hear evidence that it might be cardiovascular, pulmonary, neurological, or other reasons. You will hear evidence that it occurs in people who have never manifested a symptom that something might be wrong. And in fact, you will hear evidence that sometimes the first manifestation that something is or was wrong with someone is the sudden unexplained death. That's the evidence you will hear. Sudden unexplained death is known within the medical community and the forensic community. But it is to this day not well understood, and that is the evidence you will hear. And it is not well known to non-medical professionals. And you will hear evidence. Brian Walsh never imagined. At some point, he suddenly died. One hour he's with her, he cleans the kitchen, he comes back up, and she is dead. You will hear evidence in this case that Brian Walsh and Anna Walsh loved each other. Yes, there was stress in the marriage. Stress born out of a simple problem. that took its toll and that's the pending federal case that had begun in 2018 and was still going forward. And what happened was, over time, Anna Walsh got a job in DC with the support of Brian Walsh. It was a huge stepping stone in her career. It paid twice the salary. And they talked about it. You will hear evidence that they had to make a decision. Brian could not leave Cohasset because of the pending federal case. So who would take care of the children while Anna worked in DC? Brian did. And he did. There was stress in commuting back and forth between DC and Cohassin. Ron Walsh experienced that stress too. And Anna Walsh and him talked. They talked about it on Christmas Day of 2022. And that's what the evidence will be. Yes, there was an affair. You will hear evidence of an affair. An affair does not make someone a bad person, does not make someone a bad mother. Make no mistake about that. But yes, there was an affair, not between Brian Walsh and anyone, but between Anna Walsh and William Dasch. will be that Anna Walsh did everything she could to hide that affair. That she did not tell her closest friends, her confidants, some of whom lived in DC, the same person, Alyssa Kirby, that she spent December 29th with, drinking and talking about her life. She hid the affair. William Faster will tell you. that he was unaware of any plans of Anna ever telling Brian about the affair. William Fasco will testify that they behaved differently in public in DC to make sure there was no appearance of the affair. William Fasco will testify that Anna Walsh told him she would be devastated if Brian ever learned about the affair. And he did not react in a jealous way. And you will hear evidence that over the close to decade that these two people were in love. And all you have to do is look at the evidence and the photograph you'll see of Anna Walsh. and the eminence will establish she is a beautiful woman. And it was not unusual for her to comment to Brian. I had some man look at me today. I think he liked me. That didn't upset Brian, not over a period of 10 years. And when she told him that she had a crush on William Fastell, the man who had sold them the $1.3 million townhouse in DC, He didn't upset Brian. He trusted him. In fact, you will hear evidence from Melissa Kirby that Anna Walsh told her, I wish he would be jealous. You will hear evidence that there was no financial issues or problems. Anna Walsh had just got that job in the early part of 2022 that paid close to $300,000 a year. They owned that townhouse in DC. It was worth over a million dollars. They owned whole life insurance policies on their sons in the amount of one million dollars each. Whole life that you will hear you can borrow against if you need cash. You will hear evidence that Brian Walsh's mother gifted them money and actually you'll hear from the landlord of the home that they were living in at the time that Brian was living Well, Anna worked in DC that it was his mother who was paying the rent, because that's what grandmothers do. There was no financial problems here. They owned investment property in Massachusetts. The evidence in this case is that Brian Walsh loved Anna Walsh. You will hear that she spoke of him in glowing terms to William Faster. That she said, I want people to see the Brian that I know. You will hear how she talked about her relationship with Brian, with Alyssa Curtin. And notwithstanding the fact that Anna Walsh was having an affair. She described their relationship as open and honest. He believed their marriage was open and honest because he loved her. You will hear how she described Brian as her best friend to her friend, Elizabeth. You'll also see evidence of text messages that you may use to determine for yourself that there was love between these two individuals. The importance about those text messages that you'll see is simply that they're dated, the ones you'll see are dated beginning December 25th of 2022, seven days before New Year's Day. In 1225, Anna Walsh and Ron Walsh are texting each other. And she is sending him seven properties, listings, primarily out of Zilla, seven listings of properties in the greater DC area. Bethesda, Annapolis, they're searching for future investment properties. You'll see that, and you'll hear evidence, that then she comes up to celebrate Christmas with Brian and their three beautiful boys. You'll see on 1227, now that she's back in DC, these text messages between them. And they're talking about one of their properties. And they're talking about the fact that it, in fact, sold. So now they need to figure out what to do with the proceeds. You'll see on 1228, next exchange between Brian Walsh and Anna Walsh. Now, she's back in DC. She's not feeling well. She's telling Brian, I don't feel well. So I'm going to stay at home and work at home today in DC. And they joke. And on the text, Brian says something like, well, I guess I'll have to get you a plunger. And it responds. I'll tell you what. I'll buy the plunger. You buy me that Porsche. Why? Because Anna Walsh wanted a Porsche. And what you see on that text exchange, right after she says that, is you'll see postings that he sent to her of the Porsches he'd been shopping for the women he loved. And you'll see in his map book that he was shopping for Porsches because she had asked for them. On 1229, You'll see a text exchange between them where they're talking about a three-story brownstone that she had found that maybe they'll buy for investment. And you'll see the text references to how much it cost, the square footage, it's up and below. You'll see text exchange between them where they're talking about possible renovations in the future. They are talking about the future. And this is on 12-29. And then on 12-30. Simple Texas texts between them about her catching her flight from D.C. to get to Cohassin for New Year's. She texts them, I've landed. And what you see in those text messages are she begins to send Brian pictures of her playing with the boys now that she's reunited with her three beautiful boys again. And then you see seven pictures sent by Brian Walsh back to Anna taken of her playing with the boys. And how do they sign off these texts? You'll see them. Ryan says, love you. And Anna Walsh says, love you, too. We've come full circle in this opening, and now we're back to New Year's Eve. Jim Mutlow, the family friend, is invited by Anna to come to the house to celebrate New Year's Eve. You'll hear evidence that he was thrilled. He was thrilled to be with two people he'd known for years, but he hadn't seen in some time. He knew their kids, three beautiful boys. He'll describe how when he drove up in the driveway, Anna Walsh ran down the driveway in her heels, no coat, on a cold winter day. to hug him. And then what happened? They all went into the house. And what was occurring in the house? Brian was cooking New Year's. He was feeding them as they all talked for four or five hours. And what were they talking about? They were talking about the future. They were talking about investments. Anna Walsh told a story about how Brian had found a ring for her and the whole adventure of finding the ring and buying the talked about it in glowing terms when she talked about how Brian did that. Mr. Mutlow will describe that for the four or five hours that he was there, he saw no problem that the brine was happening, the nano was happening. He described the atmosphere as jovial, festive. He described it as loving. As adults do for New Year's Eve, they celebrate it with wine and champagne. You will have that box, or at least photographs of that champagne box, where they sign it. And what Anna signed on that box, She wrote, let's make 2023 the best one yet. She went on to say, courage, love, perseverance, compassion, joy, and signed with love. Nothing was more important to both Anna and Ryan than those three beautiful words. They had talked. about the problem of the federal case. It was stressful. When you heard in the Commonwealth opening the reference to a divorce search, please understand that the other evidence will be that that singular search occurred between conversations between Anna and Brian about the sale of their property. You'll see that that search occur about 830 on 1227. And why is that important? The evidence will show that the only time Anna Walsh talked about divorce with William Fastow, she talked about it in terms of Brian and I attempting to preserve the family assets. Why is that important? Because, yes, There was $400,000 of restitution that was going to come due. And yes, Ryan may have had to go to prison for some time. And what did that mean? It meant that there was going to have to be arrangements, not just to pay the money, which wasn't going to be a problem. But the boys had to move up to DC because Brian could no longer take care of them. And there would be all that added expense. And they went so far as to talk to Robin Howe, their nanny, their babysitter, and asked her if she would consider moving up. So there were expenses. So when you talk about preserving the family assets, you have to decide, how is it that I make sure? How is it, as Brian Walsh will tell you, how is it that I make sure that my wife and my three sons are financially secure if I have to go to prison? for a day, for a week, for a month, up to a year. That's what they were talking about. And in all of the other digital data that the Commonwealth has been pouring over for two years, you will not hear evidence of any other conversations about the war. And you won't hear it from William Fastow. In fact, William Fastow will tell you he had resigned himself to thinking Anna Walsh was never going to leave Brian, the father of Richard. Jim Mutlow left around 1.30. Brian Walsh and Anna Walsh went upstairs. He went back down to the kitchen about an hour later to clean it up. and then the impossible, the unimaginable happened. It didn't make sense to Brian Walsh. It was confusing. He never thought anybody would believe that Anna Walsh was alive one minute and dead the next. All he could think about were those three boys. What would happen to their three boys? now that Anna is no longer here. What will happen if they think he did something bad to Anna? Where will those three boys go? And so, he told the story. He told lies. He tried to hide. Brian Walsh never killed him. Brian Walsh never thought about killing him. Never! Brian Walsh is not a prisoner.
[02:11:39] Judge:
Members, once again, why don't you stand up, shake a leg. About 15 minutes before the break, but it's been a long little stretch here. So I can either break you now or we can start the evidence. Does anybody with a show of hands need a bathroom break or can hold on for 15? All right, we're gonna take your break early and we'll see you back in about 20 minutes. Please be seated. Does anyone need to address anything with me?
[02:12:46] Speaker 10:
No, Your Honor.
[02:12:47] Judge:
Anything from the defense?
[02:12:49] Speaker 10:
No, Your Honor.
[02:12:49] Judge:
All right, we'll take about a 20-minute break. And Commonwealth, what's the lineup today?
[02:12:54] Prosecutor:
It's going to be Sergeant Harrison Schmidt for the entirety of the day. The intention is to try and get through the audio interviews today, Your Honor.
[02:13:02] Judge:
And everything went well with the editing, so to speak, of the?
[02:13:07] Prosecutor:
Yes, we've made all the edits that we encouraged and the ones that the court told us to make.
[02:13:11] Judge:
All right. And the defense is all set with that. Have you watched it yet or? Yes. All right. Let me know if you need me. Yes, Your Honor.
[02:13:53] UNKNOWN:
Thank you. you you Thank you. . . you Thank you. Thank you.
[02:27:41] Speaker 11:
Thank you.
[02:28:23] UNKNOWN:
Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. you you you . . Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
[02:39:04] Speaker 02:
You are unmuted.
[02:39:10] Speaker 15:
Judge, could we come to sidebar?
[02:39:12] Judge:
Yes. during the opening statements of this room, which is- All rise in the court, please. Not yet. This room, which has terrible acoustics, has been made even more intolerable, I would say, by the typing that's going on in the front row. So I'm going to ask the press's welcome here at all times. It sounds like you're taking a transcript of what's going on. That's fine. I'm going to ask all three people in the front row to move it back. And we'll see how it sounds in this next time. And I encourage the lawyers. I hear certain things, but I'm quite a distance from you. I found it disruptive to what I'm doing. And so I expect that you found it disruptive to what you're doing. And I want to make sure that you are clear-headed and can do your job. So if you find that that's not working, you let me know. All right?
[02:43:01] Speaker 14:
Thank you, Your Honor.
[02:43:02] Judge:
Thank you, Judge.
[02:43:08] Speaker 10:
All rise for the court please. Jervis entering.
[02:43:50] Judge:
Now we're going to start the evidence in the case. The Commonwealth may call its first witness.
[02:43:53] Prosecutor:
Thank you, Your Honor. With the Court's permission, the Commonwealth would call Harrison Schmidt.
[02:44:17] Judge:
And you may proceed.
[02:44:35] Prosecutor:
Thank you, Your Honor. Sir, could you state your name and spell your last name for the record? Harrison Schmidt, S-C-H-M-I-D-T. And sir, I'm going to ask if you can keep that microphone a little bit closer to you so we'll help amplify. Now, sir, where do you work?
[02:44:50] Speaker 07:
Cohasset Police Department.
[02:44:51] Prosecutor:
And what is your rank at the Cohasset Police Department?
[02:44:54] Speaker 07:
Sergeant.
[02:44:55] Prosecutor:
And how long have you been with the Cohasset Police Department?
[02:44:57] Speaker 07:
A full time since 2012.
[02:45:00] Prosecutor:
And how long have you been a sergeant?
[02:45:03] Speaker 07:
Since January 2023.
[02:45:05] Prosecutor:
Before January 2023, what was your rank within the police department?
[02:45:09] Speaker 07:
Detective.
[02:45:09] Prosecutor:
And how long have you been a detective?
[02:45:11] Speaker 07:
Since 2014.
[02:45:14] Prosecutor:
And what were your responsibilities in January of 2023?
[02:45:17] Speaker 07:
general investigations.
[02:45:19] Prosecutor:
In addition to doing general investigations as a detective, did you have additional responsibilities with the Cohasset Police Department?
[02:45:26] Speaker 07:
Yes, the lead firearms instructor, taser instructor, certified to certify officers to become firearm instructors, use of force for the department, and active shooter.
[02:45:41] Prosecutor:
Now, in addition to the Cohasset Police Department, do you work with any other law enforcement organizations?
[02:45:47] Speaker 07:
Yes. Which one, sir? The Metropolitan Law Enforcement Council. Can you tell us what that is? It's METROLEC. It's a consortium of police departments that come together with mutual aid to share resources and personnel that create specialized teams.
[02:46:03] Prosecutor:
How many police departments are a member of METROLEC? About 50. And how long have you been a member of METROLEC?
[02:46:08] Speaker 07:
since 2015.
[02:46:10] Prosecutor:
And what is your responsibilities within METROLEC?
[02:46:13] Speaker 07:
I'm on the SWAT team and I'm the lead firearms instructor for the SWAT team.
[02:46:17] Prosecutor:
And does METROLEC have a search and rescue team?
[02:46:20] Speaker 07:
They do.
[02:46:20] Prosecutor:
Can you tell us about the SWAT team's interplay with search and rescue?
[02:46:25] Speaker 07:
The METRO SAR team search and rescue, if they need physical searchers they will pull from the SWAT pool.
[02:46:33] Prosecutor:
Now, as a result of working with METROLAC and Cohassa Police Department, how many fatal investigations have you been involved in?
[02:46:41] Speaker 07:
Dozens.
[02:46:43] Prosecutor:
And how many missing person cases have you been involved in?
[02:46:47] Speaker 07:
Between both, about a dozen.
[02:46:48] Prosecutor:
And sir, with your missing person cases, have you been able to recover each individual?
[02:46:53] Speaker 07:
No.
[02:46:54] Prosecutor:
What are some of the reasons why not?
[02:46:56] Speaker 07:
Medical issues, exposure to the elements, suicide.
[02:47:03] Prosecutor:
Are you familiar with the investigation into the disappearance of Anna Walsh?
[02:47:07] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[02:47:08] Prosecutor:
How are you familiar with that investigation, sir?
[02:47:10] Speaker 07:
I'm the lead investigator.
[02:47:11] Prosecutor:
And when did you become involved in that investigation, sir?
[02:47:14] Speaker 07:
January 4th, 2023.
[02:47:21] Prosecutor:
And about what time on January 4th did you become involved?
[02:47:26] Speaker 07:
I was notified on my way back from SWAT training by a supervisor that there was a missing persons investigation beginning in patrol. So I was requested to respond and assist.
[02:47:38] Prosecutor:
And so about what time of day do you think that may have been? I went to the police station about four o'clock p.m. Now, sir, when you went to the police station, what did you do to begin your investigation?
[02:47:50] Speaker 07:
I coordinated with the patrol officers that initially responded to investigate. I reviewed their reports. I conducted queries in law enforcement databases to get background information.
[02:48:04] Prosecutor:
And after doing all of these activities, did you have the opportunity to do anything else to further your investigation that afternoon or evening?
[02:48:13] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[02:48:13] Prosecutor:
What did you do?
[02:48:15] Speaker 07:
I went to Mr. Walsh's home and interviewed him.
[02:48:19] Prosecutor:
Now, where is Mr. Walsh's home?
[02:48:21] Speaker 07:
516 Chief Justice Cushing Highway.
[02:48:24] Prosecutor:
And can you tell us about that street? First off, I take it it's in Cohasset.
[02:48:29] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[02:48:29] Prosecutor:
And does that street go by any other designation?
[02:48:33] Speaker 07:
CJC Highway or Route 3A.
[02:48:35] Prosecutor:
And so, as it being Route 3A, is it a busy street or is it like kind of a smaller side street?
[02:48:42] Speaker 07:
It is two lanes divided by a double yellow line. Main thoroughfare through town.
[02:48:47] Prosecutor:
And about what time did you go to 516 Chief Justice Cushing Highway?
[02:48:52] Speaker 07:
About 630 p.m. And who went with you? Officer Lawrence.
[02:48:56] Prosecutor:
And why did you bring Officer Lawrence?
[02:48:58] Speaker 07:
He was the initial patrol responding officer.
[02:49:02] Prosecutor:
And so that night when you got to the Walsh residence, can you tell us what happened when you arrived?
[02:49:12] Speaker 07:
I was greeted by Mr. Walsh.
[02:49:13] Prosecutor:
Okay, and when you were greeted by Mr. Walsh, who else was home at this point in time?
[02:49:19] Speaker 07:
His three children.
[02:49:21] Prosecutor:
And what were the children doing?
[02:49:23] Speaker 07:
They were eating McDonald's.
[02:49:26] Prosecutor:
And whereabouts?
[02:49:27] Speaker 07:
In the kitchen, there's Kitchen Island that they were seated at.
[02:49:33] Prosecutor:
Your Honor, with the court's permission, the Commonwealth would seek to what's been marked as Exhibit 1, a photograph with the file number SLD7068.
[02:49:45] Judge:
Any objection to that? No objection.
[02:49:48] Prosecutor:
Ms. Gilman?
[02:49:49] Judge:
Marked in a minute as Exhibit 1.
[02:49:51] Prosecutor:
Thank you, Your Honor.
[02:49:52] Judge:
Do we want to move them all in? Are there objections to this group? I just want to be as efficient as possible. Do you want to move them all in?
[02:50:00] Prosecutor:
Yes, Your Honor.
[02:50:01] Judge:
All right. How many are there?
[02:50:02] Prosecutor:
52, Your Honor.
[02:50:03] Judge:
OK. And do you have an index of what their designation is, or can you get that to the court so that we have a record of that?
[02:50:10] Prosecutor:
Yes, Your Honor. I'll give that to the court for the lunch.
[02:50:11] Judge:
All right. So any objections? I know you've, and by the way, our jurors, before a case starts, the parties work together collaboratively to see what evidence they can agree to and what they can't to limit the rulings. And they've agreed that these 52 photos are fair and accurate representations of what they report. And so the defense is agreeing that those 52 Photos offered by the Commonwealth are now marked and admitted into evidence. They will be marked by the appropriate court staff as 1-252. Thank you, Your Honor.
[02:50:47] Prosecutor:
Now, sir, looking at Exhibit 1, can you tell us what we're looking at? Oh, well, you're going to have a tough time looking at the back. I'm going to ask if you could put that as close to the judges bench as possible so it's not blocking any view of you.
[02:51:07] Speaker 07:
Sure, sorry.
[02:51:09] Prosecutor:
Thank you. Sir, can you see it?
[02:51:15] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[02:51:16] Prosecutor:
Excellent. What are we looking at?
[02:51:18] Speaker 07:
This is the front of the residence at 516 CJC Highway.
[02:51:23] Prosecutor:
Thank you. Now, if we could have exhibit two, file number SLD 7067. What is this we're looking at, sir?
[02:51:34] Speaker 07:
Still the front of the house, focusing on the right front corner.
[02:51:39] Prosecutor:
And at that right front corner, are there any other entrances or egresses to the house?
[02:51:44] Speaker 07:
Yes, there's a side door recessed on that little three-step porch.
[02:51:49] Prosecutor:
When you went to the house that night, which door did you go to?
[02:51:51] Speaker 07:
That door.
[02:51:52] Prosecutor:
And perhaps now's a good time for me to ask you, can you tell me how this house is situated from the street at Chief Justice Cushing Highway?
[02:52:00] Speaker 07:
It's set back along driveway. In front is another house and a used auto car dealership. It's in a wooded area.
[02:52:11] Prosecutor:
And that's what's around the house is a wooded area?
[02:52:14] Speaker 07:
Correct.
[02:52:15] Prosecutor:
Ms. Gilman, could we have exhibit 3, file number 7175? Sir, what part of the house was this?
[02:52:25] Speaker 07:
This is the kitchen.
[02:52:26] Prosecutor:
And when you got to the home that evening, where were the children?
[02:52:30] Speaker 07:
In those island bar seats.
[02:52:33] Prosecutor:
Now, you get to the house, what is it that you do with Mr. Walsh that evening?
[02:52:40] Speaker 07:
We sat at the dining room table and conducted an interview.
[02:52:44] Prosecutor:
And do you see Mr. Walsh here today?
[02:52:46] Speaker 07:
I do.
[02:52:47] Prosecutor:
Could you identify him for the court, please?
[02:52:48] Speaker 07:
The gentleman seated over there, blue shirt, excuse me, blue suit, white shirt.
[02:52:54] Prosecutor:
Your honor, if the record may reflect, the witnesses identify the defendant. The record will so reflect. Now, sir, where did the conversation with Mr. Walsh take place?
[02:53:03] Speaker 07:
The dining room.
[02:53:04] Prosecutor:
Ms. Gilman, can we have exhibit four, 7178? So what is it that we're looking at here? This is the dining room. And where was Mr. Walsh when you had your conversation with him?
[02:53:21] Speaker 07:
Seated in that front right corner towards the camera. And where were you seated? The far seat, the seat that has that black jacket on the back of it.
[02:53:30] Prosecutor:
Where was Officer Lorenz?
[02:53:32] Speaker 07:
On the window bench.
[02:53:34] Prosecutor:
And where were the children while this interview took place?
[02:53:36] Speaker 07:
They were in and out of the room.
[02:53:41] Prosecutor:
And Ms. Kinlan, can we have exhibit five, 7177? Sir, what are we looking at here?
[02:53:51] Speaker 07:
This is the area in between the dining room table and that kitchen island.
[02:53:57] Prosecutor:
And Ms. Gilman, can we have the next exhibit, exhibit 6, 7131? I'm sorry, 7124. My apologies. And sir, what is this again?
[02:54:10] Speaker 07:
This is a closer view of that buffet table.
[02:54:15] Prosecutor:
And then when you were there that night, What was in the house as far as pets?
[02:54:21] Speaker 07:
A dog.
[02:54:23] Prosecutor:
Ms. Gilman, can we have 7-1-3-1, which I believe is exhibit now. Sir, where is this in the home?
[02:54:32] Speaker 07:
If you go in that side door, you're in a hallway. If you take a right, there's a sunken in family room.
[02:54:38] Prosecutor:
And is that dog the one that was home that night?
[02:54:41] Speaker 07:
Yes, Hans.
[02:54:43] Prosecutor:
Any difficulties with the dog that night when you were talking to Mr. Walsh? No. And where was the dog that night when you spoke with Mr. Walsh?
[02:54:51] Speaker 07:
Isn't that great?
[02:54:57] Prosecutor:
Your Honor, at this point in time, the Commonwealth would seek to play the interview of January 4th. I have not marked it in the exhibit yet, but I have it on the digital drive.
[02:55:07] Judge:
All right. Subject to the objections that have been preserved, any other objections?
[02:55:17] Prosecutor:
No, Your Honor.
[02:55:18] Judge:
All right, so this will be, are you offering it?
[02:55:21] Prosecutor:
I'm offering that you have this marked as the exhibit.
[02:55:24] Judge:
All right. It'll be marked in a minute now into evidence as exhibit 53.
[02:55:28] Prosecutor:
Now, exhibit 53, You've had the opportunity to review that, correct?
[02:55:48] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[02:55:49] Prosecutor:
And does that fairly and accurately reflect the conversation you had with Mr. Walsh that night?
[02:55:53] Speaker 07:
It does.
[02:55:53] Prosecutor:
Thank you. At this point in time, Ms. Gilman, I'd ask if you could press play on exhibit 53, the interview from January 4th.
[02:56:08] Speaker 07:
Okay, the quarter is on. It is 1839, Wednesday, January 4th, 2023. President Cares and Officer Lawrence.
[02:56:22] Speaker 17:
And sir, Brian, can you say your name? Yeah, Brian Walsh. Brian Walsh, okay. Brian, what's your date of birth? 1-30-1-75. Okay. And we're at your home 5-16 CJC Highway.
[02:56:32] Speaker 13:
Yes, it's right at the right end.
[02:56:34] Speaker 06:
Perfect.
[02:56:36] Speaker 07:
So could you do me a favor? I know you've explained a lot of this today. Could you just do me a favor and start at the beginning? So I understand your wife, Anna, she travels a lot for work.
[02:56:47] Prosecutor:
Yeah, she's in D.C. and we're going to follow up shortly, but it's taking longer.
[02:56:55] Witness:
Awesome.
[02:56:56] Speaker 09:
So, um, starting, uh, she was at work once. Yep.
[02:57:03] Speaker 20:
So can you please let me finish this and I'll let you know if you need a break?
[02:57:18] Witness:
Yes. Okay, I'll, okay, um.
[02:57:21] Prosecutor:
All right, let's go ahead.
[02:57:33] Speaker 06:
So most recently, so it might have seemed that Anna came home on Friday morning.
[02:58:17] Speaker 07:
Alright so it looks like on last Thursday at 7 36 p.m. there's a screenshot of the JetBlue app and it's a travel itinerary.
[02:58:37] Speaker 06:
It's a flight B6254 dated December 30th.
[02:58:47] Speaker 07:
Terminal 2 gate C28 to Boston. Terminal C gate C33. Departs at 6.30 a.m. Arrives at Boston 7.57 a.m.
[02:59:06] Speaker 09:
And then do you mind if I just look at?
[02:59:08] Prosecutor:
Please, please look at anything that's going to help you, please look at anything. She sent me some, she had a date with Thomas, so she sent me some videos of that. And then you'll get into the area where I started texting her.
[02:59:32] Speaker 07:
So Friday around 6.01 a.m., you text flight on time. She responds, amongst other things, yes, boarding now. So, okay. Friday, 7.59 a.m., landed.
[03:00:01] Speaker 09:
Friday, 1207 p.m. Photos of Anna and Thomas. Six years old, my man.
[03:00:29] Speaker 07:
More photos Friday evening.
[03:00:38] Speaker 17:
Did you take these photos?
[03:00:41] Prosecutor:
I took that photo.
[03:00:42] Speaker 06:
You took these and sent them to Hannah?
[03:00:46] Prosecutor:
She usually would just send them to herself. She'd take my phone and send them to herself. Okay.
[03:00:54] Witness:
Very good.
[03:00:57] Prosecutor:
Okay, I know it's exciting.
[03:01:06] Speaker 07:
So that was a series of seven photos sent Friday at 6.33 p.m. And Anna sent this group of photos?
[03:01:16] Prosecutor:
I believe so. I took the photos a lot of times. I take the photos and she takes my phone and sends them to herself.
[03:01:23] Speaker 06:
Okay. Monday, 2.33 p.m. A text from you to Anna.
[03:01:38] Speaker 07:
639 a.m. continuing to be 30 a.m. Usually she'd be back in touch with me at this point.
[03:01:52] Speaker 06:
What's Viber calling you in Viber now?
[03:01:54] Prosecutor:
Viber is one of her sister users. a long time ago, she would use that to communicate in Europe and stuff like that. So when her SIM card died last week, she called on Fido, so I thought I'd call Fido. Sister uses it, so I tried every sort of situation I could to get in touch. before blowing the whistle and making the bell ring. Sure.
[03:02:22] Speaker 17:
Did the SIM card issue ever get resolved?
[03:02:25] Prosecutor:
I believe so. The phone was working when she came here. Okay.
[03:02:29] Speaker 17:
Is mine saying that it's a company
[03:02:35] Prosecutor:
We're on Verizon, I don't know what the company is on, but I know that she was part of the, she was part of our family plan, and then she just ported the phone over.
[03:02:46] Speaker 17:
She got the number over to their system?
[03:02:48] Prosecutor:
Well she took the phone, so that was camp.
[03:03:06] Speaker 17:
Yep, one carrier picks up the other carrier.
[03:03:10] Prosecutor:
Yeah, but I think they use, they don't. Okay.
[03:03:16] Speaker 06:
Okay, so she flies in, I see the text, around 7 a.m. How does she get from the airport to home?
[03:03:24] Prosecutor:
Yeah, she's always Uber or Lyft. Uber or Lyft, okay. Uber was 1 and Lyft was 2.
[03:03:29] Speaker 09:
Okay, and so she gets dropped off here?
[03:03:32] Prosecutor:
Yeah, usually they drop her off further down because no one can find the place. Okay. That's why when she's arriving, there's more contact than when she's going to DC. Normally, she's off pretty quick. If it had just been reversed, it would have been a totally different situation. She's supposed to be here.
[03:04:02] Speaker 07:
She comes home Friday night. Do you guys do anything together, or what are you doing?
[03:04:07] Prosecutor:
Yeah, so I... Yeah, it was a pleasure. I had some... She was running late, so I took William and Brian to Kinder Care. That's where the daycare is from. And Thomas was off, so I said, would you like to have a day with Thomas? And she was going, okay, Thomas. I'm just going to do a few... And then she was having a good time and I came back and then we spent the rest of the day with the kids and then we hung out. She was a bit tired when she came to the show. She went to work out in the morning. What's the gym? Yeah, it's Bar Method in Hingham. She went to Glossy Nails to have her nails done for the New Year.
[03:05:20] Speaker 06:
Is that also in Hingham? So then she hits a farm at the weekend in the morning, Saturday, and you do all these nails.
[03:05:47] Witness:
Yes.
[03:05:47] Prosecutor:
That was the last time I used my phone to say, they're going to be okay. And she said, yeah, so I get my nails done. And I was like, oh, thank you. And then she said, Then she came over and she said, hey, I'm going to take the kids, I'll give you a break. I'm going to take the kids to a place in Canton, the wonder white hill that way. It's an indoor place. You already have this. OK. So this is what it is. And then when my son, so my son took my phone to his room. OK.
[03:06:26] Witness:
Sorry. OK.
[03:06:27] Speaker 13:
Sorry, I'm going to give you.
[03:06:31] Witness:
Oh, thank you, thank you. Thomas, can you make a movie? Can you organize a movie for your son?
[03:06:38] Prosecutor:
Thank you, thank you so much. This guy's mesmerized by you. So what happened was, I was like, oh, that would be great until I get ready, because we're making dinner for her former boss, Jim. She hadn't seen him face to face for a while. So I got some time to prepare dinner, get everything together. A lot of people call me Jim. He's been on the phone with me five times today as well. So she came over and then we had dinner here. Yeah, we had dinner here. Yeah. We had dinner here. We celebrated the New Year. And then by the bottle, she signed One, two, one, two, one, two, there you go, there you go, okay. Okay, see, that's how it happens. At that time, I didn't have access to my phone. Sorry, he does that a lot, I apologize. Yeah, so William, the excited one, took it up to his room. I didn't know it was there, but I knew it was gonna turn up. We have a lot of worry that it's gonna be thrown out into that, so, you know, it threw out my wife's home, apparently, a while ago. That's the age of the kids, but they have a tendency to throw stuff away. So then, she was on the phone a lot, or texting with work, and she mentioned with Jem that she was worried about work and things like that. And I was like, all right. She was scheduled to leave Tuesday morning early. And then she said that there was and that she had to leave early in the morning. Sunday morning. And I was like, okay, normally I would have been like, that's ridiculous, but she worked up until 7 p.m. on December 24th in another building in D.C. So I thought, all right, we're gonna be together soon enough as a family.
[03:08:52] Witness:
We made this decision together. Arose? She didn't explain it to me.
[03:08:59] Prosecutor:
But there was like one of the buildings had a bunch of leaks. Another building, the FBI raided at one point. Another building, there was a disgruntled tenant. So she was dealing with all of that. She's the regional manager there. So I didn't know because I didn't want that. I was like, all right, whatever has to be done. Then she said, hey, I'm going to have time off for Martin Luther King. I can be there for four, maybe five days. And I was like, well, that's great. So then she only brings her bag, her carry bag is normally a Louis Vuitton bag. And she didn't bring it, she just brings a little bit of stuff. She's got a bunch of stuff all over this place. Or she just goes and buys it. And then what happened? Yeah, then she woke me up around six and said she was going. And she said, I have to go. And he said, I love you very much. And she said, I love you very much. And then he said, I think she left me behind in a taxi. But I don't think he saw it, because it was further down, or if you want to talk to him. But he said, it was a taxi. And I was like, can you describe the car? He said, well, I don't even see it that. So I was like, OK. So he was coming down to get it. I think I did not. Maybe Anna said taxi in that scene. Maybe she's my driver. But I know that she was not driving. There's no way she was driving her vehicle. It was like zero.
[03:10:28] Witness:
Okay. When was she originally scheduled to fly back?
[03:10:33] Prosecutor:
Well, it was Tuesday at probably eight, eight thirty or eight or the early flight that she takes. But I'm not going to say I never got the confirmation for that. Okay. But she usually just sends me her arrival because that's the most important.
[03:10:58] Speaker 17:
Okay. Does she particularly travel on JetBlue?
[03:11:04] Prosecutor:
Yeah, she got a JetBlue credit card that gave her 80,000 points. And she doesn't like getting new credit cards, but she was like, well, we're doing this a lot. So she had gotten that. I had no access to that. She just got it. But she also started to use it more because she needed to spend a certain amount of money to get the points.
[03:11:21] Witness:
So that changed our whole dynamic over the last month.
[03:11:24] Speaker 17:
Yep, that makes sense.
[03:11:28] Witness:
She's been flying JetBlue lately. Is it a particular airport that she's going to as well?
[03:11:33] Prosecutor:
Yeah, I mean, it's JetBlue or American Airlines. American Airlines is second. Okay. This is Jim. You guys don't want to talk to him, do you? Not yet, yeah. So JetBlue number one, American Airlines number two, that's all I know. I don't think she ever took anything else. And someone said maybe she took a connecting flight. She never took a connecting flight. Even once in the summer where they had the thunderstorms and she spent eight hours at the airport, she didn't even think. She was like, well, I just go get stuck somewhere that's not DC or Boston, so that's no good. So I don't think that happened at all. I can't imagine that. And then it was always DCA and it was always Logan. It was never, it never went to national or anything like that.
[03:12:19] Speaker 09:
Okay. So, what?
[03:12:28] Speaker 17:
You heard this from William as to the whole taxi mention? Thomas, it was about six years ago.
[03:12:34] Witness:
Yeah, William doesn't have it.
[03:12:37] Speaker 09:
Yeah, well, that was time.
[03:12:38] Witness:
Yeah, William's story would be much more fantastical.
[03:12:43] Speaker 17:
So why do you think Thomas was up?
[03:12:47] Prosecutor:
He gets up early, and he's always watching. I let him sleep with his iPad. So he wakes up and starts doing that. And then I guess, you know, any time he hears action downstairs, like during when we were having the dinner and celebrating, he came down to say hello to Jam. So any time he hears something, he comes down. So he must have heard his mother. And he was like, oh, great. I'm awake. So he came down. Because when he was on the couch, I came down and said, I'm sorry, Mommy had to leave early. And he said, I already know that. Yeah, because I was like, okay, because he was on the couch earlier than normal, but he had been off
[03:13:32] Speaker 17:
So it's you, Anna, the boys, and Jeff.
[03:13:36] Prosecutor:
Yeah, well the boys were all, we put them in the bedroom and it gets late. And Anna took them to that indoor play. Is it Wonderland? I call it Wonderland, it's probably indoor play Canton. It's in Canton, it's an indoor play, but I don't have the exact name on top of that.
[03:13:58] Speaker 17:
So it's you, Jim, and Ana.
[03:14:07] Prosecutor:
So how did the night progress?
[03:14:14] Speaker 17:
How late did Jem stay over?
[03:14:17] Prosecutor:
Yeah, Jem stayed till almost 1 or so. After midnight at RA with kids, we're like, OK. It's past our bedtime. When you're younger, you're like, hey, what's that?
[03:14:27] Speaker 08:
I was in bed at 10.
[03:14:28] Prosecutor:
Right, there you go. And that's when, during that time, Ana was dealing with her phone a lot, and she'd gotten a message from Della, who I spoke to today. It was like, you didn't see me before you left, and so he was upset. She was seeming, you know, I don't know, like under, she seemed, like the last couple weeks she seemed like under pressure at her job. But she mentioned, even Jim spoke about it today, there were a lot of things she didn't like doing that she was not good at. So that seemed to be on her mind. I had spoken to me a few days before saying she wanted to see a psychiatrist. And I was like, yeah, we're apart. It's been difficult for all of us. I've seen the therapist, like I told you today, the last 35 years. So anything that would support you is fine. But I mean, I always make fun of my super sturdy, sturdy woman. So it seems like she was invincible. And so that was going on. And then she said that she had to go. After Jem left, she said she had to go. And I was like...
[03:15:33] Speaker 08:
So maybe around 130?
[03:15:34] Prosecutor:
Yeah, maybe before, maybe before. Like, after one, it was a little over 130. Okay. And then, because she was like, we're going to go back. And I was like, what's this? And she's like, Brian, I really have to go back. And that's when she told me. And I was like, what was, like, that seems odd, but I get what's going on. She was supposed to be here the whole week. Right. But she didn't get no time, because she was just too much work, but she was trying to keep up with. So the schedule hasn't been... Hi, thank you. Thank you. But the schedule has been like that for the past few months, like where she's been having to cut back on family time. And it's been difficult for all of us, definitely.
[03:16:11] Speaker 17:
Sure. When, again, did she, how many months ago did she start the job? the whole new arrangement?
[03:16:18] Prosecutor:
Yeah, it's been a while. We've been out here for nine months almost. We've been out here for a few months and then things took longer. Hello? Okay, thank you, thank you. Okay, and then... It first was supposed to be in Boston, the job, and she worked at the Boston property. And then that wasn't working out, and then she moved to D.C., and then I was like, all right, well, we'll do this. It shouldn't take long, and then things have progressed, so that was not the best. I can imagine that's got to be tough.
[03:16:55] UNKNOWN:
Yeah.
[03:16:56] Prosecutor:
But, you know, the only problems we had in our marriage were that we weren't spending time together. That was like, I mean, during the pandemic, while I was with my divorce, we enjoyed family time. We loved it.
[03:17:10] Speaker 06:
Yeah, everybody loved it, yeah. Okay, so what's the time frame? So, Gem leaves between 1 and 1.30?
[03:17:18] Prosecutor:
No, Gem leaves at like 1, let's say 12.50. And then I went through that and she said, I have to, let's go to bed, nice and sure. And then I was like, let me clean up. And that's when she said that she had to go because I would have to go tomorrow. And she had mentioned that she might have to leave early on Saturday. But, you know, then she confirmed it, but she was, she always was like, can't be there really, I've got to stay longer. And then she's like, I can't do it. So I think, I think maybe I was putting a lot of pressure on her for more family time. Maybe she was having a hard time speaking up. Yeah.
[03:18:03] Witness:
Yeah, that's understandable.
[03:18:05] Speaker 17:
All right. So you think by 130, you both were upstairs and were bed?
[03:18:10] Speaker 14:
Yeah, absolutely.
[03:18:13] Prosecutor:
she was to catch a early flight early flight so she yeah so she got she only got um this is why she's always been tired she wasn't feeling well yeah on friday to begin with and she was very old um the week before um i want to say because i i got sick too the kids got sick and i got sick that she can't everyone got sick I want to say on nearly the 27th, she worked from home. She was so sick, which is very rare. But she was feeling better, but I noticed a difference there. And then she probably got two and a half to three hours of sleep. And then she gets up, and you hear her in the bathroom getting ready. And then it must have been six. I didn't see the clock, but it was dark outside still. like that.
[03:19:09] Witness:
Did you sleep through that whole morning routine?
[03:19:12] Prosecutor:
Yes, I did. I used to get up and she was like, you're going to be rude. I was like, you're right. But she comes and kisses me.
[03:19:23] Speaker 17:
And then have you heard any other communications or seen any other, you know, does she have social media?
[03:19:31] Prosecutor:
Yes, she has a bunch of social media. People have already been looking into it. I guess her iMessenger comes up on my phone for some reason. So people have been sending messages, and I think that for me it would be for Ana. And her Instagram I have some access to. But I don't do any social media really, so it's her domain. But everyone has called saying that they thought that they saw some action on the Facebook, Jen and Adela, and I said it must be me comes through and I look at it, because normally I don't, but now I'm looking at everything that comes in. But there have been no, I don't think there have been any new posts, because I've asked everyone who does it. To keep an eye out. Yeah, if there have been any, but it does not seem like she's on Instagram or Facebook.
[03:20:19] Speaker 06:
Instagram or Facebook?
[03:20:19] Prosecutor:
I don't know of any other, other people.
[03:20:23] Speaker 06:
Alright, so,
[03:20:30] Prosecutor:
Okay. But just to be clear, I didn't have the phone. And last week on, like, it was the 24th, she was, she had that work at Mazda, Mazda building. So I didn't hear, we spoke in the morning, but I didn't hear from her all day. And then she was supposed to be here on a flight. And then she missed that flight on the 25th. Okay. And she drove off. And that's when I freaked out because she was coming here. So I'm like, well, where is she? I heard from her like super weird. And that's when I said you're missing and I'm going to call Sal. because she worked all night New Year's Eve, which I was not happy about, but I understand. She was supposed to be here early on the 25th, she wasn't here, and I didn't have, she hadn't sent me her flight info. That's one of the few times. So then I started to really get nervous, and I called Sally and Alyssa, and I called Jim, but I didn't say anything to Jim, and then I called my mother, and I was like, And then she called and said, I'm driving up. I was at the airport. My flight was canceled. I was busy. I couldn't get in touch with you. And I was like, OK. So this time around, it was a bit different. She's going to DC now. And I didn't have the phone.
[03:21:53] Witness:
So I just emailed her saying, I hope everything's OK. And all that's fine. So where was your phone on Sunday?
[03:22:04] Prosecutor:
took it and put it up in his bed. Thomas found it under his pillow on Monday at that 2.30 time when I got in touch with her. But I emailed her twice before that, but I was like, every time my wife meets five minutes. And then I started to get nervous. And then on Tuesday, I started to call around. And I remember telling the agent, don't call work. Don't embarrass me at work, Brian. I was like, sure. So I called Sally and everyone. And then this morning, that's when I was like, I have to. And I forgot another day. And that was Wednesday. Today's Wednesday, right? And then the tuition spotter couldn't go back to me very quickly. I left the message at offsite sales. I said, can you please say Brian Walsh called. I felt that one other building that we were going to pick up, and I was going to call her boss, Jeff Chon. We didn't have his number, but I was looking for it. And then it was Graham that called me and said, is everything OK? And I said, I don't know. She hadn't heard. And he said, I didn't see her yesterday. And that's why things kind of went wrong. Okay.
[03:23:21] Speaker 17:
All right. Very good. That all sounds reasonable. Has she ever like forgotten her phone or left her phone here before?
[03:23:31] Prosecutor:
She's never left her phone here. I mean, she's pretty good at it. It has happened. It has happened, but I don't think she's ever left her phone here.
[03:23:44] Speaker 17:
Does she ever turn the phone off, or would it on vibrate, or anything like that, or does she always keep the ringer on?
[03:23:52] Prosecutor:
No, no, she definitely turns it on in the evening.
[03:23:58] Speaker 17:
Is she on call at times, where she would always keep her phone on, or is she okay to just shut it off at night?
[03:24:15] Speaker 08:
Is she one of the types that's always looking for a phone charger?
[03:24:17] Prosecutor:
Yeah, I know we have an L so the kids are destroying them all the time. So here at the house, she's always looking for juice for her phone. Okay.
[03:24:26] Speaker 17:
Okay. Does anything else come to mind that we should be aware of?
[03:24:32] Prosecutor:
I mean, I talked to my wife. Even though we've been doing this for a while, I talked to her a lot. And even if she can't talk, she'd send me a text saying I'll call you right back or something. It's one or two times that I didn't hear from her and then I freaked out. I feel like I'm not high pressure enough. I should have done something more. So my mother is always calling. She's like, what's going on? She wants to hire private investigators and stuff like that. So the detectives are coming global. The gentleman at teaching spires is head of global security. So I think we're shot here.
[03:25:23] Speaker 06:
Do you have shared or access to her Uber or Lyft accounts? No. Does she rent her own?
[03:25:29] Prosecutor:
Yeah, I don't really. I don't use any of that stuff. Yeah, I'm driving around and I never did. It worked out when I was single. My friends would pay for all the Ubers. But Ana was always ahead with the tech and things like that. And since she was, I never did anything to learn about it because I didn't have to. Right. Does she have any family here, stateside? And then her sister is in Toronto. I told her sister you guys were coming and that she's available to talk. Everyone's available to talk, whatever you want to ask.
[03:26:05] Speaker 08:
Okay, perfect. Appreciate that. So she got a sister in Canada.
[03:26:11] Speaker 17:
Where's Anna's mother?
[03:26:13] Prosecutor:
So Anna's mother's in Belgrade and Anna was just there. Her mother My sister was both there to support her mother at the end of November beginning of the summer.
[03:26:32] Speaker 08:
Okay, so not too long ago. No, no. And that's Serbia?
[03:26:37] Prosecutor:
Yes, Serbia. And Sally, her sister, called and let her mother know it was happening. Okay.
[03:26:44] Speaker 17:
So any other siblings?
[03:26:48] Prosecutor:
It's basically just the three of them. It's her and Sally and Malofa and her father.
[03:26:55] Speaker 08:
No brother or anything? No brother. Any half-siblings or anything on the father's side?
[03:27:02] Prosecutor:
There is someone, his name is Milan. He is a cousin that they share land with that they've been in a dispute with for I mean, 30 years or 20 years. And that's been going back and forth for our entire marriage. They had a deal. It just fell apart. They went out to do with that as well. So, yes, but Sally and Anna do not get along.
[03:27:27] Speaker 17:
But he's kind of a tumultuous relationship. There was activity related to that as recent as
[03:27:36] Prosecutor:
Yeah, they had to go deal with the lawyers and they had a contract that was signed five years ago but they had to cancel it.
[03:27:46] Speaker 17:
It's a huge land dispute, yeah.
[03:27:56] Prosecutor:
There's a girl named Carrie She's a very good friend of Ana. They both worked at the Inn at Little Washington. Jim and Adela called to say that she posted something about 10 years or 13 years, and Ana would normally always say something. Okay, thank you. Where did they work together? At the Inn at Little Washington. That was Ana's, I think Ana was one of Ana's first jobs when she was here. Okay. So Carrie, and then in town there's Adela, who works at the Melrose. There's a neighbor. She made good friends with the neighbor. I don't know who the neighbor is though. That's Wawinta is her name, but I don't have any numbers. She hasn't spoken to Wawinta for several months, which I guess now I think about it as odd. and there's Alyssa, Alyssa Kirby. Peter Kirby lives in Markfield as a brother, and Alyssa Kirby lives very nearby. When I called on Christmas Day, Alyssa was gonna go over and check on the house. And that's not a call, and then I was like, settled down. But Alyssa has, she's like, I can go over to the house, and I said, everyone's already been to the house, Alyssa, thank you. And these are DC contacts? These are Alyssa, is a DC contact, Adele is a DC contact, Carrie's in DC. The gentlemen who sold us are, Our townhouse, William Basto is in DC, and his office is very close by when I called him. He's like, Oh, I just got back in from Idaho, but he immediately went over to take a look at that.
[03:29:39] Speaker 17:
You had a Boston opportunity, and then that kind of brought you back down, or brought you back down to D.C.?
[03:29:43] Prosecutor:
No, but we, she was in D.C. I was always involved, like, you were going back, like, from the beginning of our relationship? Yes.
[03:29:51] Speaker 17:
How long, like, when did you guys meet, and when did you guys get married?
[03:29:54] Prosecutor:
Oh, right, yeah, so we met years ago at a place called the Wheatley. Okay. And then she went to D.C. for a job, and I was traveling, and then I called say, oh, I'll be in D.C. and then we met up and we started going out again and then in 2013 we lived together in D.C. and then that wasn't working out and I came up to Boston and then she quickly came back after. And then we were in Boston since then and then she got this job in D.C. and she said, oh, we go back to D.C. now, is it works out? And I said, sure. But we were in Boston for seven or eight years together.
[03:30:38] Speaker 17:
Does she have any other phones, or is it just that one work phone, or like an Apple Watch, or anything?
[03:30:48] Prosecutor:
She wanted to get an Apple Watch, and we were actually getting one. I don't know, I didn't see, she would have told me we'd be talking a lot, so I don't think she had, she was talking about getting another phone and an Apple Watch. I don't know if she got the Apple, the extra phone, but I was wondering if she had a second device as well. But she normally likes to just have one device.
[03:31:08] Witness:
There have been times over our marriage where she's had two devices though.
[03:31:14] Speaker 08:
Okay. Who's typically in charge of either the finances or the accounts?
[03:31:19] Prosecutor:
Oh, Ana's very good at that. We do it together, but when it comes to being on time paying the bills, she's much better at that stuff. With me, more broader advising, like let's do this Sure. But no, she's a, she's a operations expert. And that's my...
[03:31:43] Speaker 17:
Logistics, that's her thing. Yeah. Okay. How about, if you don't mind me asking, like overall, like financially, like everything good and in order or...
[03:31:53] Prosecutor:
Yes.
[03:31:53] Speaker 17:
Are there any stressor issues?
[03:31:57] Prosecutor:
Yes, definitely. Well, financially, in some ways better than ever, this job was three times what she was making them chat. That's why I think she did 315 this year. So that was huge for us. Yeah, definitely. So that's why we decided to do the deal. But I've been having legal problems for many years now. It's one of the reasons why I couldn't leave because I'm dealing with that now. It was supposed to be done a long time ago, and it wasn't. So we've been really depressed about that. And there is restitution that I get to pay. But we have the money, and we're just waiting to get our final resolution. So the stress was being a part and not being the authors of our own lives. I couldn't move when we had to. And then my mother's, our mothers have both over their house. It's a bit difficult. That was a hard hit. And then my mother, she needs a lot of assistance. She recently had cataracts and she's had three cancer surgeries. No, she's doing well, so thank you. Not going away. But those were, everything okay, Thomas? Okay. But yes, the biggest stress was not being together before. When I was dealing with it, we were together. I was reading her a love note just the other day from four years ago about how we're able to blossom under such difficult circumstances.
[03:33:52] Speaker 17:
Absolutely, yeah.
[03:33:54] Prosecutor:
So, do you have a specific question? Yeah, I just represented a Warhol piece.
[03:34:04] Witness:
You can read about it in the papers. You were an attorney? What's your representation?
[03:34:09] Prosecutor:
I don't even know what you do, I'm sorry. Oh, sorry, yeah. So, I had some art and I lost money to another person in the gallery in LA. And then the FBI got involved and I was arrested. And that occurred in 2018. So I've been dealing with that. And then I went to sentencing in October 8th of 2021 and everything was going to be fine. But the bank had called for the bank check saying that some of the money had been returned. But none of the money that was in the bank check and that things were postponed And then things continue to postpone. And that's why I'm going to lock down here at the house. Part of my sentence was on confinement, but it's gone over the 12 months because things have not been resolved yet. And that's why I'm able to be in Massachusetts with my wife. She's been doing this. But just the other day, there was a possible resolution for the whole thing.
[03:35:27] Speaker 13:
I will.
[03:35:28] Prosecutor:
Give me one moment, I'm going to make a note for you. But the prosecutor definitely was interested in more. He saw a second opportunity at the Apple. So that's why things have taken a lot longer. But that's where we're at. And if there's any other information, I'll give you my attorney's number, if she can also tell you about it. She probably explained the law better than I can. But I acknowledge that.
[03:36:00] Witness:
I'm dealing with the whole family, unfortunately, is dealing with it because of my actions. So we're not here to catch up.
[03:36:09] Prosecutor:
No, I don't want to hide anything from you, because if that could lead to finding my wife sooner, that's the most important thing.
[03:36:18] Witness:
But I do want to acknowledge, it's extremely embarrassing for me to talk about. But under these circumstances, it's worth it. Again, we're not here to catch up.
[03:36:33] Prosecutor:
But please, if you have any other questions, please ask me. Don't hold back.
[03:36:40] Speaker 17:
She obviously has a passport, right? Yes, yes. Is her passport still here? No. Is that something she normally carries with her for traveling?
[03:36:48] Prosecutor:
Yeah, I would say yes, because what happened was she
[03:36:55] Witness:
And now she had to start carrying her passport. But now she always carries her passport.
[03:37:01] Prosecutor:
She brought, William does not have a passport. Thomas and Brian do. And when I got nervous about not seeing her, I was like, hey, whoever is with the kids should have their passports. It's the only form of ID. Also, my mother wanted to open up an account for Thomas. It's the only way to identify a problem.
[03:37:28] Witness:
Is she on any medications?
[03:37:35] Prosecutor:
Not that I know of. So for health, I'm out of shape, but she's in great shape. We had a bit of a cancer scare last year, but the biopsy said it was fine. On her side? On her side. But she kept saying that she felt that she was pale recently. okay and flying in and then when she gets here it's not rest while the kids are like so i would give her some weekends i'll just say hey stay in dc i'll take care of the kids you know you've got to get because you know she's here the whole weekend and leaves early in the morning for and then now her work schedule is really when she got back the work schedule really got very tight because she's taking two weeks off okay so we really have a
[03:38:31] Speaker 17:
You're not aware of any medications. Any other officers or anything coming up?
[03:38:39] Prosecutor:
No, nothing. It's very unlikely that she would hide something from me. We usually talk about everything. No, I can't think that there would be anything else.
[03:39:01] Speaker 13:
of clothes in DC.
[03:39:02] Prosecutor:
Most of my clothing is in DC too. So the idea she thought it was going to take a month or two to get there. It's taking a lot longer. So we had to buy stuff just to like everything we keep having to buy new stuff up here. And then this time, she brought up my, my, my over heavier coat that I was getting called, as you said, on the brink. So she brought her little care card.
[03:39:37] Speaker 17:
Okay. You had a coat in DC, so she brought your
[03:39:49] Prosecutor:
But that means she has to bring more luggage than I felt bad. She's like, don't buy me a coat. Don't get cold and get sick.
[03:39:54] Witness:
So do you have the carry-on? Absolutely. So Louis Vuitton carry-on is like a big purse.
[03:40:02] Prosecutor:
Well, I know. It's the double bag. The Louis Vuitton double bag. Yeah. My mother, actually, she wanted me to ask the Washington police if they saw that bag at the house. Because if that bag was there, I mean, she's definitely Classic, yeah. I had to become one of my wife's.
[03:40:31] Witness:
Any memory issues? Yeah, she has a terrible memory. We've made fun of it since we've been together. I said that's why she's always happy, she doesn't remember anything.
[03:40:59] Prosecutor:
But that's the joke it always made. I was like, well, I don't know. I think, I mean, you know, she was always, that was always the thing. Or even, you know, further back, I was the one who had the memory, I would say. But I told her it was good, I could repeat store it, so it would be a fresh marriage forever.
[03:41:15] Witness:
It was good. I like that. Any substance abuse?
[03:41:21] Prosecutor:
No, no. Anna, actually Anna basically drank nothing when she met me. Shut it down, but New Year's Eve, we did have some champagne and stuff like that. But no, Ana, Ana's totally there, always.
[03:41:42] Speaker 17:
Do you have any sort of like family tracking on the apps? Like my iPhone, AirTags, anything like that?
[03:41:49] Prosecutor:
So my mother just bought AirTags for us, and Ana had picked it up on Saturdays, and I have one. I said, yeah, one of these is for you. But because things, But because she left early, we were going to do a lot of work for the New Year and stuff. And she was going to be having a hair tag with her. My mother was like, was I ever going to have that hair tag? But they're right on my desk all wrapped up. And she's the one that launches all of it. She's the one that puts stuff together. So, and I would always just say, oh, okay, we'll wait till you come back. He's always waiting for you to come save us for guys over here.
[03:42:35] Speaker 06:
That's my house.
[03:42:36] UNKNOWN:
Yeah. Okay, thank you. I should take these. No, no.
[03:42:41] Speaker 17:
Yeah, those look expensive.
[03:42:42] Prosecutor:
Yeah, here. The money's gonna get upset, okay? Don't break them.
[03:42:49] Witness:
Okay.
[03:42:50] UNKNOWN:
Mm-hmm.
[03:42:52] Witness:
All right. Where did he find those?
[03:42:56] Prosecutor:
I don't know. They must have been over here or something like that. I didn't notice. I didn't notice.
[03:43:06] Witness:
Okay, no swearing. Sorry for that. I thought he was saying truck for a while. I'm on his side. Okay, good.
[03:43:13] Speaker 17:
Thanks. Did she bring the big duffel bag back with her? Have you seen it yet?
[03:43:20] Prosecutor:
I know we haven't. So when you asked me what she might be wearing, her black coat, but it's a small coat, the 100 boots were gone, blue and gray, the duffel bag, and then the purse that she brought. Okay. A black purse, probably.
[03:43:39] Speaker 17:
Okay. Do you have any cameras at the house?
[03:43:44] Prosecutor:
Yeah, no, we don't have any here with the landlord or property owner or anything. I don't think so. I haven't called Peter yet. I've been calling a lot of people, but I haven't been ready to go to the next level again. He might have something down by the garage. He might have some stuff down there. But I don't think he's got anything on it.
[03:44:04] Witness:
I haven't seen any ring doorbells anywhere.
[03:44:06] Speaker 17:
OK. Any cameras at the townhouse in DC?
[03:44:14] Witness:
at the door of the, not ring, but let's see. There's a ring to them now. I'm supposed to put that in the thermostat, too? Ness. Ness, because he had a Ness camera.
[03:44:32] Prosecutor:
But that would be on her phone. But when we were... I'm going to give you one moment. When we were at Jerusalem Road, we had three, so I'd be out playing with the boys, and she'd talk through it and stuff like that. She's very good with that, yeah.
[03:44:52] Witness:
But no, I'm just not here, I'm sorry. Any other questions? I can't think of anything else that you haven't already explained. Appreciate it.
[03:45:06] Prosecutor:
No, I appreciate it.
[03:45:09] Speaker 17:
I know it's 7.30 and you guys are still here, so thank you for that. Do you mind if I take a look at the camera roll? The photos I have on the list? Just if there's something that trumps out, you know what I mean?
[03:45:31] Prosecutor:
Sometimes the kids get it. So, sorry. But that's everything there. You can take a look. There's probably a thousand photos. Glasses back, please. Front glasses, please. Okay. You said it would be okay if I went around. Yep. That's fine.
[03:46:18] Speaker 17:
Just enjoy the happy meals.
[03:46:22] Prosecutor:
Yeah. I always make the joke. I'm going to make it extra happy for you guys. Daddy? Yes, Thomas? I'm going to send the eggs for him. Okay. Well, please tell him not to. That's not... William, please. Oh no, I would like to say, I don't know where to learn that film, but I'm pretty sure it was me. That's your brother's. He's going to get very upset. Thank you. All right, okay, I have the glasses back, please.
[03:46:50] Witness:
All right.
[03:46:58] Speaker 17:
If you don't mind me Yeah, on Friday.
[03:47:03] Prosecutor:
Yeah, basically I just went down to see a friend of mine, Paul Fleming. We hadn't seen each other in a while. And then, you know, brought back some of the stuff for New Year's, you know, and things like that.
[03:47:18] Witness:
And tried to think of it all.
[03:47:21] Speaker 17:
Where was that? Where did you meet him? It was in Boston.
[03:47:23] Speaker 20:
Oh, nice.
[03:47:24] Speaker 17:
Yeah, in Kenwood Square.
[03:47:29] Witness:
Yeah, just look, I saw the photos from Friday.
[03:47:59] Prosecutor:
I'm trying to think, oh I also went to, I had some, I had a few events that I could do, so I was young at the time.
[03:48:09] Speaker 11:
Okay, thank you.
[03:48:11] Speaker 17:
Do you want, do you mind if we just do a walk through the house to see I'll shut this off.
[03:48:26] Witness:
Is there anything else that? I think that's it. Yeah.
[03:48:29] Speaker 09:
Greg, do you have any ideas? I know we've covered a lot.
[03:48:31] Speaker 17:
I really appreciate you going on.
[03:48:32] Speaker 09:
Yeah, no, of course.
[03:48:33] Speaker 17:
Absolutely. Sometimes every little thing helps.
[03:48:36] Prosecutor:
I believe that.
[03:48:37] Witness:
I honestly believe that.
[03:48:39] Speaker 07:
We'll move on and see if we can track something down. All right. It is 7.31. I'm sharing off the record.
[03:48:50] Prosecutor:
Sergeant, I have a few questions about that interview. How old were the children at this point in time? Two, four, and six. And the oldest child, what was produced during that interview?
[03:49:05] Speaker 07:
An iPad.
[03:49:06] Prosecutor:
An iPad. And when it's heard the defendant saying one, two, one, two, one, two, what is going on at that point in time?
[03:49:14] Speaker 07:
The child needed help unlocking the iPad, and the defendant assisted in punching in the code to unlock it.
[03:49:21] Prosecutor:
Now, in addition, at some point in time, someone produced glasses. Who did that?
[03:49:28] Speaker 07:
The middle, Joan.
[03:49:29] Prosecutor:
And directing your attention to what's been marked as exhibit six, file number 7214, Ms. Gilman, if we could have that.
[03:49:45] Speaker 07:
Sergeant, did you see the glasses there in that photograph? Yes, there were ladies' glasses there in the black case underneath the mirror on the counter.
[03:49:52] Speaker 14:
Now, during the interview, he showed you his phone.
[03:49:59] Prosecutor:
What did you look at on his phone?
[03:50:01] Speaker 07:
A text message thread between him and Ana and the camera roll.
[03:50:07] Prosecutor:
And what did you see as far as travel arrangements?
[03:50:10] Speaker 07:
There were screenshots of the JetBlue app that Ana had sent him for the flight from D.C. to Boston.
[03:50:18] Prosecutor:
So, at the end of the interview, it was mentioned doing a walkthrough. What did you do next?
[03:50:25] Speaker 07:
We concluded the interview and began the walkthrough.
[03:50:28] Prosecutor:
Okay, and so what is a walkthrough, sir?
[03:50:31] Speaker 07:
We just went throughout the house to see if anything jumped out or seemed important.
[03:50:37] Prosecutor:
Ms. Gilman, can we have exhibit 8, 7-1-1-5?
[03:50:44] Speaker 14:
So, sir, what part of the house was this?
[03:50:46] Speaker 07:
This is the front of the house. It's not the front door, but it's like the primary access door to the right.
[03:50:53] Prosecutor:
Ms. Gimlin, can we have exhibit 9, 7120? Now, where are you in the house at this point in time, sir?
[03:51:01] Speaker 07:
If you go into that door from the last photo, you're in a hallway. If you look left in that hallway, this is the entryway into the kitchen and dining room, that open floor concept.
[03:51:12] Prosecutor:
And Ms. Gilman, if we can have exhibit 10, 7122. Where is this in the house, sir?
[03:51:21] Speaker 07:
If you go in from that outside door and you look straight from the hallway, that's the first floor bathroom.
[03:51:27] Prosecutor:
And what is inside the first floor bathroom besides the bathroom?
[03:51:32] Speaker 07:
A washer and dryer.
[03:51:33] Prosecutor:
Disclosure of Exhibit 11, please, 7169. And I take it this is the washer and dryer inside that first floor bathroom?
[03:51:42] Speaker 07:
Correct.
[03:51:44] Prosecutor:
Could we have Exhibit 12, File Number 7137. Where is this, sir?
[03:51:51] Speaker 07:
If you come in that same door, that hallway, if you look right, there's a sunken-in family room.
[03:51:57] Prosecutor:
And what is at the back end of the Sunkenin family room?
[03:52:01] Speaker 07:
There's a staircase that leads up to a single bedroom.
[03:52:04] Prosecutor:
Could we have exhibit 13, 7138? Where is this, sir, in the house?
[03:52:10] Speaker 07:
Those are the stairs leading up to that single bedroom.
[03:52:14] Prosecutor:
Exhibit 14, please, 7140. Now, where is this in the house, sir?
[03:52:21] Speaker 07:
This is that single bedroom on that right side of the house.
[03:52:26] Prosecutor:
Access does this bedroom have to the rest of the house besides going down those stairs to the sunken living room?
[03:52:32] Speaker 07:
None.
[03:52:34] Prosecutor:
Could we have the next exhibit, which is exhibit 15-7141? And where is this, sir?
[03:52:41] Speaker 07:
This is the same bedroom.
[03:52:44] Prosecutor:
Could we have exhibit 16-7152? What part of the home is this?
[03:52:50] Speaker 07:
This is the sunken in living room. This is the closet door beneath the staircase leading up to that single bedroom.
[03:52:56] Prosecutor:
Did you have the opportunity to look inside that closet?
[03:52:58] Speaker 07:
I did.
[03:52:59] Prosecutor:
Could we have the next exhibit, exhibit 17, 7153? Is this how the closet appeared, sir?
[03:53:06] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[03:53:09] Prosecutor:
Now, can we have exhibit 18, 7165? Where is this, sir?
[03:53:15] Speaker 07:
This is the hallway as you enter through that door. So that door would be to the left, bathrooms to the right, and then the kitchen dining room straight.
[03:53:24] Prosecutor:
Could we have exhibit 20, file number 7235?
[03:53:36] Speaker 14:
Now, what part of the home is this?
[03:53:37] Speaker 07:
That door on the left is the front door. So this is if you're looking away from the dining room, you'd be looking at the stairs upstairs to the main part of the house and the living room straight ahead.
[03:53:50] Prosecutor:
What's at the far end of the living room?
[03:53:52] Speaker 07:
A fireplace and a TV.
[03:53:55] Prosecutor:
And if we could have the next exhibit 22, I'm sorry, 21-7236. Where is this, sir?
[03:54:06] Speaker 07:
That's a close-up look of the living room with the TV, the fireplace, and the bureau.
[03:54:11] Prosecutor:
Exhibit 22, please, Ms. Gilman. File number 7237. What part of the home is this now?
[03:54:18] Speaker 07:
Still right in the living room, it's the stairs leading upstairs to the main part of the second floor of the house, a view into the kitchen and the backyard.
[03:54:28] Prosecutor:
Now, are there any other rooms by the kitchen?
[03:54:32] Speaker 07:
To the left edge of this frame is a small office.
[03:54:38] Prosecutor:
Could we have exhibit 23, file number 7246? What is this, sir?
[03:54:45] Speaker 07:
That's the small office.
[03:54:46] Prosecutor:
And could we have exhibit 24, 7288? Where is this in the home, sir?
[03:54:58] Speaker 07:
That is the second floor bathroom.
[03:55:00] Prosecutor:
And can you describe the second floor layout for us?
[03:55:04] Speaker 07:
If you walk up the stairs to the second floor, the front door would be to your back. You enter a hallway. Straight ahead is a second floor bathroom. There's two bedrooms to your left and there's a primary bedroom to the right that also has a bathroom in it.
[03:55:28] Prosecutor:
Could we have exhibit 25, which is file number 7298? What are we looking at now, sir?
[03:55:35] Speaker 07:
If you were in that hallway coming up at the stairs, if you look left, that would be the doors to the two bedrooms on your left.
[03:55:44] Prosecutor:
Could we have exhibit 26, file number 7301? Which room is this, sir?
[03:55:52] Speaker 07:
This is the front left bedroom on the second floor.
[03:55:57] Prosecutor:
And who was residing in this bedroom?
[03:56:00] Speaker 07:
The defendant.
[03:56:02] Prosecutor:
And sir, what is in the drawer next to the bed?
[03:56:07] Speaker 07:
Some sheetrock or drywall from the ceiling.
[03:56:13] Prosecutor:
Could we have the next exhibit 28? Actually, I'm sorry, 7301. Could we have 27, 7302? And sir, where is this?
[03:56:26] Speaker 07:
that same bedroom.
[03:56:28] Prosecutor:
And then could we have exhibit 287309? And what orientation is this, sir?
[03:56:38] Speaker 07:
This is looking at the bedroom door from that same bedroom.
[03:56:43] Speaker 15:
Your honor, we would object for the reasons stated before. Excuse me? We object for the reasons stated before.
[03:56:50] Judge:
Thank you. Preserved.
[03:56:52] Prosecutor:
And then I'd like to have exhibit 29, if I may, Ms. Gilman, 7319. What is this, sir?
[03:57:00] Speaker 07:
A hole in the ceiling in that bedroom.
[03:57:04] Prosecutor:
Now, what is above the ceiling in that home?
[03:57:07] Speaker 07:
An attic.
[03:57:08] Prosecutor:
Did you go into the attic that night?
[03:57:09] Speaker 07:
No.
[03:57:12] Prosecutor:
Now, can we have exhibit 30, 7320? What room is this, sir?
[03:57:22] Speaker 07:
This is the second bedroom to the left in that hallway.
[03:57:26] Prosecutor:
And could we have exhibit 31, 7321? What is this, sir?
[03:57:32] Speaker 07:
That same bedroom.
[03:57:34] Prosecutor:
And who was residing in this bedroom?
[03:57:35] Speaker 07:
The middle child.
[03:57:36] Prosecutor:
And who was residing in the bedroom that was by the sunken living room?
[03:57:40] Speaker 07:
The eldest child.
[03:57:43] Prosecutor:
Could we have exhibit 32, 7259? What room is this, sir?
[03:57:52] Speaker 07:
This is the bedroom to the right, the primary bedroom.
[03:57:56] Prosecutor:
And with this primary bedroom, what was it attached to as far as a bathroom?
[03:58:00] Speaker 07:
There was an attached bathroom.
[03:58:04] Prosecutor:
Could we have exhibit 33, 7269? What is this, sir?
[03:58:09] Speaker 07:
That's the attached bathroom.
[03:58:12] Prosecutor:
And could we have exhibit 34, 7335? Bless you. What's this, sir?
[03:58:24] Speaker 07:
If you're standing in the kitchen looking towards the front of the house, this is the basement door.
[03:58:31] Prosecutor:
And what was on this door as far as child safety locks?
[03:58:35] Speaker 07:
Up top was like a child safety device.
[03:58:45] Prosecutor:
Could we have exhibit 35, 7336? Where is this, sir?
[03:58:50] Speaker 07:
That's the doorway from the last photo looking down into the basement.
[03:58:56] Prosecutor:
Could we have exhibit 36, 7340? Where is this, sir?
[03:59:02] Speaker 07:
If you go down those steps and you look right, this is the view of the basement.
[03:59:07] Prosecutor:
And could we have exhibit 37, which is file 7343? And where is this?
[03:59:14] Speaker 07:
If you go down those steps and look left, this is the view of the basement.
[03:59:18] Prosecutor:
And then, could we have exhibit 387557? Where is this?
[03:59:24] Speaker 07:
Those are the basement steps.
[03:59:27] Prosecutor:
Now, what access did the basement have as far as to the outside of the home?
[03:59:32] Speaker 07:
If you come down those stairs and look right, there's a outside door that leads to the left side of the house.
[03:59:39] Prosecutor:
Did you have the opportunity on January 4th to do any examination outside the home?
[03:59:43] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[03:59:44] Prosecutor:
Could we have exhibit 39, file number 7077? Where's this in relation to the house, sir?
[03:59:52] Speaker 07:
This is the left side of the house. So that basement door would be just off frame to the right.
[03:59:57] Prosecutor:
And there's a fence there, sir. What's the fence around?
[04:00:01] Speaker 07:
That's leading into the backyard and the in-ground pool.
[04:00:06] Prosecutor:
Could we have exhibit 40, 7080? And what is this?
[04:00:12] Speaker 07:
A view looking into the backyard.
[04:00:14] Prosecutor:
What condition was the pool that night when you were there on January 4th?
[04:00:19] Speaker 07:
It was full of water. The water was dark green and cloudy. It was unseasonably warm that night, so no ice or anything. And there was no pool cover on it.
[04:00:32] Prosecutor:
I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you.
[04:00:33] Speaker 07:
There's no pool cover on it.
[04:00:35] Prosecutor:
Could we have exhibit 417084? Now, where are we in the house, sir?
[04:00:42] Speaker 07:
You were within the fenced-in portion of the backyard looking at the pool.
[04:00:46] Prosecutor:
And how is the pool different in this photograph than when you were there that night?
[04:00:49] Speaker 07:
It's drained in this photo.
[04:00:51] Prosecutor:
What is, sir, in the left-hand corner, what is that part of the house?
[04:00:58] Speaker 07:
Shedding.
[04:00:59] Prosecutor:
Could we have exhibit 42, 7091? And where is this?
[04:01:05] Speaker 07:
This is in the backyard, a view of the back of the house.
[04:01:08] Prosecutor:
And exhibit 43, 7092? What about this part, sir?
[04:01:14] Speaker 07:
This is the back left corner, if you're looking at the back of the house.
[04:01:19] Prosecutor:
And sir, did you have the opportunity to look at that shed as well?
[04:01:23] Speaker 07:
I did.
[04:01:24] Prosecutor:
Could we have exhibit 447097? And did you go inside the shed?
[04:01:34] Speaker 07:
I did.
[04:01:35] Prosecutor:
Could we have exhibit 457390? And where is this, sir?
[04:01:50] Speaker 07:
That's a view inside the shed.
[04:01:54] Prosecutor:
I'll just get a siren going by, sir, and let it go. Sir, did you find anything that night when you were there on January 4th? No. And did you have the opportunity to look at any vehicles that night while you were there on January 4th? Yes. What vehicle did you look at? A Volvo XC90. Could we have exhibit 46, file number 7057? What is this, sir?
[04:02:30] Speaker 07:
That's the Volvo XC90.
[04:02:32] Prosecutor:
And sir, if you can keep your voice up, did you have the opportunity to look inside the Volvo? I did. What did you see inside the Volvo that night?
[04:02:40] Speaker 07:
I noticed the trunk portion of the SUV was lined with plastic sheeting that was folded.
[04:02:46] Prosecutor:
And anything else inside the Volvo?
[04:02:48] Speaker 07:
In the trunk, I noticed like a maple seedling, like a, looks like a V they spin when they fall from the trees.
[04:02:58] Prosecutor:
Now, how long did it take to do this walk around?
[04:03:04] Speaker 07:
About 30 minutes.
[04:03:06] Prosecutor:
And what did you do after the walk around?
[04:03:08] Speaker 07:
I returned to the Coassa police station.
[04:03:10] Prosecutor:
And what did you do when you went back to the station?
[04:03:13] Speaker 07:
Further the investigation.
[04:03:14] Prosecutor:
How so?
[04:03:16] Speaker 07:
I checked for any international flights, if Anna had taken any, by putting a flag on her passport.
[04:03:24] Prosecutor:
Yes, sir.
[04:03:27] Speaker 07:
I reached out to the Metro DC police to do a walkthrough of the townhouse down in DC.
[04:03:36] Prosecutor:
Yes, sir.
[04:03:37] Speaker 07:
And I called on his sister.
[04:03:45] Prosecutor:
Now, after doing those things, did you ever have the opportunity to return back to 516 Chief Justice Cushing Highway?
[04:03:51] Speaker 07:
Yes, that evening.
[04:03:52] Prosecutor:
And why did you return back to the home?
[04:03:55] Speaker 07:
I brought the fire department back to the house to investigate the pool.
[04:04:00] Prosecutor:
And so how did you do that, sir?
[04:04:03] Speaker 07:
The fire department brought high-powered floodlights and a pike pole to like scrape the pool to see if there's anything inside.
[04:04:11] Prosecutor:
And what did you see happen when they did that?
[04:04:13] Speaker 07:
They found a pool skimmer at the bottom and then they used that pool skimmer because it was wider than the pike pole to scrape the bottom of the pool.
[04:04:21] Prosecutor:
And was anything recovered?
[04:04:22] Speaker 07:
No.
[04:04:23] Prosecutor:
And about how long was this? Did it take to do this checking of the pool?
[04:04:28] Speaker 07:
15 minutes.
[04:04:29] Prosecutor:
And After you did that, what did you do next?
[04:04:34] Speaker 07:
I returned back to the police station.
[04:04:37] Prosecutor:
But what time do you think you got back to the police station?
[04:04:42] Speaker 07:
10.30 or so.
[04:04:43] Prosecutor:
And so did you do anything further on January 4th?
[04:04:48] Speaker 07:
We've reviewed the notes I had thus far.
[04:04:51] Prosecutor:
Okay. And then what's next in the investigation?
[04:04:57] Speaker 07:
I spoke to Jim the following day.
[04:04:59] Prosecutor:
Okay. So now we're on January 5th.
[04:05:02] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[04:05:03] Prosecutor:
Okay. So walk us through January 5th as far as what you did as the investigation to find Anna Walsh.
[04:05:10] Speaker 07:
I began contacting friends and family, gathering more background information. I created a missing persons bulletin and I disseminated that to the department internally. I believe it went out on our social media. I sent it to the Mass Fusion Center, the Mass Crime Net and the South Shore Detectives as a shared distribution list.
[04:05:39] Prosecutor:
And may we have exhibit 47, the poster. So sir, this is the poster that you circulated?
[04:05:49] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[04:05:50] Prosecutor:
And I want to ask about some of the places that you circulated it. You can take it down now, Ms. Gilman. Thank you. You said Fusion. What's that?
[04:06:00] Speaker 07:
The Massachusetts Fusion Center. It's an information sharing system for law enforcement.
[04:06:06] Prosecutor:
And besides them, what other organizations did you share it with?
[04:06:10] Speaker 07:
Mass Crime Net. It's a distribution list for detectives and investigators.
[04:06:16] Prosecutor:
And then was there a third?
[04:06:19] Speaker 07:
South Shore Detectives.
[04:06:20] Prosecutor:
So I take it that's just the police departments in the South Shore?
[04:06:23] Speaker 07:
Correct.
[04:06:24] Prosecutor:
So you've circulated the flyer. It's January 5th.
[04:06:28] Speaker 07:
Now what are you doing? I began checking for financial records to see if there are any recent transactions. The phone was pinged the night prior, and we were reviewing the phone location data that day.
[04:06:45] Prosecutor:
Okay, and so you're reviewing phone location data, and in addition to that, do you do anything as far as searching the area that day?
[04:06:57] Speaker 07:
A canine track was conducted in, excuse me, an area search with a canine was conducted in the house. In the rear of the house, excuse me.
[04:07:09] Prosecutor:
The rear of the house. Alright, so what's the rear of the house like at 516?
[04:07:12] Speaker 07:
It's wooded. If you go through the woods straight back behind the house, you reach another neighborhood.
[04:07:20] Prosecutor:
How far is it between the two neighborhoods?
[04:07:23] Speaker 07:
Less than a quarter mile.
[04:07:24] Prosecutor:
And how was this area search conducted? You said a canine, but what's that tell?
[04:07:30] Speaker 07:
A canine handler and the dog will do a search to see if there's any odors that jump out to the dog, if there's any indication.
[04:07:42] Prosecutor:
Who is the canine handler that worked on this?
[04:07:44] Speaker 07:
Sergeant Reardon.
[04:07:45] Prosecutor:
And what department is he affiliated with?
[04:07:47] Speaker 07:
Cohassin.
[04:07:48] Prosecutor:
And so was anyone else involved in the search at this point in time?
[04:07:56] Speaker 07:
No.
[04:07:57] Prosecutor:
So after the canine search is done, what else do you do on this case, on the 5th?
[04:08:03] Speaker 07:
We checked for any Amtrak travel. We had troopers that are assigned to the Logan Airport check each ticketing agency to see if there's any travel, Burana.
[04:08:17] Prosecutor:
And what did you do as far as checking in with any cab companies or anything like that?
[04:08:22] Speaker 07:
I began calling cab companies from Quincy to Plymouth.
[04:08:26] Prosecutor:
Any other ride shares that you checked on?
[04:08:29] Speaker 07:
We checked with Lyft and Uber to see if there were any pickups in that area of town.
[04:08:36] Prosecutor:
And besides checking with the troopers at Logan Airport and cab companies and ride shares, what else did you do in the fit?
[04:08:45] Speaker 07:
We requested additional resources.
[04:08:47] Prosecutor:
And who did you request additional resources from?
[04:08:50] Speaker 07:
My supervisor reached out to the Norfolk County, the troopers assigned to the Norfolk County DA's office.
[04:08:57] Prosecutor:
And did you have the opportunity to meet with any of those troopers on January 5th?
[04:09:01] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[04:09:02] Prosecutor:
About what time did you meet with the troopers on January 5th?
[04:09:04] Speaker 07:
About 5 p.m. Where did you meet with them? Coasset Police Station.
[04:09:08] Prosecutor:
And who did you meet with?
[04:09:09] Speaker 07:
Trooper De Chico and Sergeant Buchanek.
[04:09:13] Prosecutor:
And what did you do when you met with the troopers on the 5th?
[04:09:18] Speaker 07:
I brought him up to speed on the investigation thus far, and we listened to the audio recording of that first interview.
[04:09:25] Prosecutor:
After that was done, did you do anything else besides just reviewing the recording with the troopers?
[04:09:33] Speaker 07:
We went to the house.
[04:09:35] Prosecutor:
About what time do you think you got to the house?
[04:09:37] Speaker 07:
Eight thirty.
[04:09:38] Prosecutor:
And who went to the house?
[04:09:40] Speaker 07:
Myself, Sergeant Hunt, Detective Lieutenant Lopes, Trooper De Chico, and Sergeant Buchanek.
[04:09:47] Prosecutor:
Who is Sergeant Hunt?
[04:09:49] Speaker 07:
Coasset Police Sergeant. He's now retired.
[04:09:51] Prosecutor:
And who is Detective Lieutenant Lopes?
[04:09:54] Speaker 07:
My supervisor.
[04:09:55] Prosecutor:
And the other two were the state troopers?
[04:09:58] Speaker 07:
Correct.
[04:09:59] Prosecutor:
And so who was present at 516 CJC when you arrived on January 5th?
[04:10:08] Speaker 07:
The nanny, Robin Howe, was leaving as we arrived. Present was the defendant, his mother, and his three children.
[04:10:18] Prosecutor:
And so what did you do that night as far as dealing with the defendant?
[04:10:22] Speaker 07:
I conducted a second interview.
[04:10:24] Prosecutor:
And who participated with the second interview?
[04:10:26] Speaker 07:
Myself, Sergeant Hunt, Trooper DiCicco, and the defendant.
[04:10:32] Prosecutor:
And where did this interview take place?
[04:10:33] Speaker 07:
That same dining room table.
[04:10:36] Prosecutor:
Where was Detective Lieutenant Lopes and Sergeant Buchanek?
[04:10:40] Speaker 07:
They were in the living room on the other side of the staircase.
[04:10:43] Prosecutor:
And who was with them?
[04:10:46] Speaker 07:
The defendant's mother.
[04:10:48] Prosecutor:
And what access did you have to the living room?
[04:10:56] Speaker 07:
It's an open floor concept, so the only barrier in between those two rooms was the staircase.
[04:11:07] Speaker 14:
Your Honor, may I have a moment?
[04:11:09] Judge:
You may.
[04:11:09] Speaker 14:
Thank you, Your Honor.
[04:11:17] Prosecutor:
That interview on January 5th, was it recorded?
[04:11:19] Speaker 07:
It was.
[04:11:21] Prosecutor:
And have you reviewed that interview? I have. And does it fairly and accurately depict the interview you had with the defendant that night, and Sergeant Conn, Andrew Pachino?
[04:11:30] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[04:11:32] Prosecutor:
Your Honor, the Commonwealth will cease to enter a drive with the interview from January 5th as the next exhibit, which would be every 54.
[04:11:43] Judge:
Subject to the earlier objections, any new objections? It'll be marked and admitted as exhibit 54.
[04:11:51] Speaker 14:
Thank you, Your Honor.
[04:12:07] Prosecutor:
Your honor, with the court's permission, may we play Exhibit 54? You may. Thank you. Ms. Gilman, could you play the interview from January 7th?
[04:12:17] Speaker 09:
Thank you.
[04:12:37] Speaker 06:
Highway. My name is Harrison Schmidt. I'm an detective with Cohassa Police. Our present is... My name is Chico.
[04:12:44] Witness:
I'm an assignment at our CAA's office.
[04:12:48] UNKNOWN:
My name is spelled B-I-C-I-C-O.
[04:12:50] Witness:
And Sergeant Garrett is at Cohassa Police.
[04:12:55] Speaker 17:
Bravo. Beautiful. So I'd just like to circle back to... I'll just circle back to last weekend.
[04:13:06] Speaker 09:
So, can you start me with in the morning? So, when you woke up, I know when we talked, I was just going back to my notes and taking everything out.
[04:13:16] Speaker 06:
When we talked, I had about to go and I left. Could you fill me in starting when you woke up on the first slow Sunday morning?
[04:13:27] Prosecutor:
Oh yeah, definitely. So, Yeah, so maybe Brian gets out of there for the 7 or around 7, so when it's about light and then I get up and then And then I got the day going. I was supposed to change William and Brian in the morning. I didn't. I'm 50-50 out of 100%. So we went down and I made, I'm sorry, I made French toast for one of the days off, I made French toast. to see my mother and later. So the kids and I played with all the gifts and things that we had at the house. And then Robin and I showed up at two. And then I had to go out to get a little orange juice and milk and things like that. So I went to Shaw's. And then I went to, I got up a little bit late to go see my mother.
[04:14:51] Witness:
That's pretty much the whole day. Okay.
[04:14:59] Witness:
Before that, I listened to the end here anyway.
[04:15:10] Prosecutor:
and you were about six when she was leaving. She kisses me goodbye normally. So you did wake up and you didn't. Yeah, yeah. I mean, if I ever got there or anything, she'd just like follow me back to sleep. OK, nothing wrong with a conversation. That's pretty much what I had to go to. We got into a routine. I used to get up with her, and then I would be too, I would just be too broke up.
[04:15:32] Witness:
Okay. And then, but your son also saw kind of a left.
[04:15:38] Prosecutor:
Yeah. When I came down, I said, sorry, I'm going to go early. And he said, I know. This is like seven, three years old. Yeah. He was on the couch playing with his iPad.
[04:15:57] Witness:
Sorry, I can't interrupt anymore.
[04:15:59] Speaker 20:
I have to clear that because it wasn't kind of completely clear. Can you talk about what she was wearing when she left, if you remember?
[04:16:09] Prosecutor:
I'm sorry. She never dresses on her underwear. I guess her stuff is down here. Sometimes she keeps it under her arm. Because she's always getting herself ready in her underwear normally. So, I don't, I mean, but I know she always had a black dress, normally, or something on that's her standby, or she had one of her flowery dresses, but I didn't, I don't know what she was wearing that day. I do know that she wore, she had to have worn her short black coat, because I was listening, she wore her condoms, which is odd, only she wears fancy shoes to leave. And what color are the boots again? They're blue, blue, blue gray or something like that.
[04:17:01] Witness:
And the pocketbooks, stuff like that?
[04:17:04] Prosecutor:
Yeah, she had a blue baton bag, and then she had her, she had her black bag, I think it was a product one. But she has like five or six product bags.
[04:17:19] Speaker 17:
You're confident that she
[04:17:22] Prosecutor:
The only thing that turned up was when we were here last night that Tiffany sung glasses.
[04:17:28] Witness:
She did not take that. Were you able to track down where she left those? Where she left her sunglasses? No, William?
[04:17:37] Prosecutor:
Right. Brian was playing with them. Maybe Thomas found them. I think they were right there.
[04:17:49] Speaker 20:
Has anything like this ever happened before?
[04:17:55] Prosecutor:
You know, no, it's totally not a normal thing at all. And the reason why I didn't call sooner, one was that when she leaves, if she was coming here and she was five minutes late, I would freak out. And the week before, she was late for Christmas because she, as I said, she worked So I was already coming and missing. I emailed her and I called people and she said, hey, I missed the flight. It was canceled. I'm driving off. So I didn't have the phone and she wasn't coming so I held off. And then I should have called more by Tuesday. I don't know.
[04:18:41] Speaker 09:
Go ahead. Sorry. So going back to Sunday, you didn't have your phone for the duration of Sunday, is that correct?
[04:18:47] Prosecutor:
I didn't have, I remember the phone was with the, I think it was dead the whole time. Okay. Cause I, I, I, Thomas found it robbing after the day. It was up there and then. for it because they run from honest on the way a while ago on the garbage so they were out in the garbage and then they came back and Thomas one of And that's when I called, my dad had a phone and I called him. That's one thing I got, you know, normally now that you can call it's been a while, events have passed, I don't know what's going on. So I didn't, she didn't give me the exact what was going on with the emergency normally. She updates me, she's had several emergencies with the FBI, so I'm crossing at one point, that was her building, huge leaks of Moz, or P.J. Maxx was the resident that she was dealing with. So anytime she had one of those big, she had to reach me on it pretty frequently.
[04:20:02] Speaker 09:
Yeah. Okay. So then when was it that you got your phone back?
[04:20:09] Prosecutor:
I called one at like 2.30 or 3.30 on Monday. So it was on Monday.
[04:20:17] Speaker 09:
You said about 230 to 330?
[04:20:18] Prosecutor:
So yeah, I think it's actually I think it's 234 because at the moment I got it. 233, okay.
[04:20:28] UNKNOWN:
Yeah.
[04:20:29] Speaker 09:
So then going back to the morning of the first, so you do French toast, you run some errands, OJ, milk.
[04:20:40] Prosecutor:
That was later in the afternoon. During the morning it was French toast and then we played with our employees from Christmas. They were watching movies, things like that. Yeah, they stayed with Robin. But I was considering, if Devon was here, maybe we would have all gone and I would drive and some of the things, but we had Robin. So what vehicle did you drive on? Did I drive on?
[04:21:25] Speaker 09:
Where's that now, if you don't mind me asking?
[04:21:27] Prosecutor:
So a bunch of people have come to visit and support, so I couldn't get in, so I parked right out there. OK, all right.
[04:21:35] Speaker 09:
And then, so the pickup truck, this is that one?
[04:21:38] Prosecutor:
That belongs to Robin.
[04:21:40] Speaker 09:
OK, and then so the right car?
[04:21:43] Prosecutor:
That belongs to my mother. Oh, OK. Yeah, and then we have other cars in here, and then the press.
[04:21:48] UNKNOWN:
OK, very good.
[04:22:02] Speaker 09:
And, um, what, uh, is she a, it's the next one, Scott? Yeah, yeah. Excuse me, address?
[04:22:10] Witness:
Uh, 330 Eastern Paradise Road.
[04:22:17] Speaker 20:
That one's us. Come on. It's not doing something.
[04:22:23] Speaker 09:
Okay. Um. So.
[04:22:40] Prosecutor:
So, just to be clear, her experience was that she was over her head and it was a huge, it was the job of the dreams and she had done like two or three times the money that she had been making before and she was worried to a certain extent that she was over her head and that she kept talking about that. And then being away from the family was very difficult too. Yeah, that's a lot. And what did she do prior to this job? She worked for Jam, who was here on New Year's Eve. He runs a real estate company, and she was in the operations office.
[04:23:14] Witness:
So it's just a similar job, just larger scale, more money.
[04:23:19] Prosecutor:
Yeah, I mean, like, way, I mean, it's a way larger scale, multi-billion dollar company. And, you know, it was a lot. I mean, it was overwhelming.
[04:23:29] Witness:
I know that in the previous last night you mentioned about the distance, the issues that you were having on your end. This job, you're causing the pressure. Absolutely, yeah. I was going to ask, you know, the point of the question is, do you ever talk about suicide?
[04:23:50] Prosecutor:
No, I don't know. about how the year has been and how she was really unhappy about the trial and things taking, or the court case taking longer and us not being able to be together. And she kept saying, come back, we're just like, we're only going to have 100,000 and we'll be on a smaller job. And I was like, no, we've made these huge sacrifices for you. Psychiatrist was the first to actually brought that up, but I spoke to Jim about it today. He spoke to me about it today, and he basically said, hey, it's fine, it doesn't mean there was any problems. She had a problem, and she should do it in a healthy way. So that was his experience.
[04:24:37] Witness:
So no past thoughts, no past attempts on it? No, no past attempts. you guys talk about separating or?
[04:24:50] Prosecutor:
No, no, no, not at all. I mean, we've been separate, so it's been sad for us. We love spending time together and, you know, think about when the kids grow up and what time we have together. So, we're very good pandemic and with all the time we find the best for our students. It just wasn't, it just wasn't like that. We really were each other's company. up to her all the time, but that wasn't the problem. Also, I mean, the idea of separation for her comes from a family that her mother and father were over 47 years. For me, the divorce family I enjoyed was like that. It just really wasn't in there.
[04:25:52] Witness:
In the past, you lived together in D.C., right?
[04:25:56] Prosecutor:
We lived together, yeah, we're here.
[04:25:58] Witness:
And then we had some problems. Was that in 2013 when you came here?
[04:26:02] Prosecutor:
Yeah, I came back to Boston. I was like, D.C. is not working, and then she, a few months later, So that was just in like DC? Yeah, I mean, it was, I guess, no, that's not, that's not a bad statement. What I mean by DC is just, you know, it was, I wasn't ready for such a serious relationship at the time, and I was uncomfortable in a new town. So obviously there was more layers to it, and I wasn't used to what a, what a relationship meant. And I was just a solo operator, and now I wasn't. And that was difficult for me. I struggled with that. So I think that was it. And then Ana realized that she wanted to deal with me, and that being lost, it was fine. And then, yeah, thank you. Ms. Gilman, could you pause, please? And for the record, Your Honor, this has been paused at 14 minutes and 33 seconds on the media player.
[04:27:04] Judge:
Alright, great. Thank you, Your Honor.
[04:30:31] UNKNOWN:
. .
[04:32:29] Speaker 13:
you Bye!
[05:00:30] UNKNOWN:
you Thank you. Thank you. you
[05:14:24] Speaker 13:
.
[05:14:30] UNKNOWN:
. you
[05:16:39] Speaker 13:
you
[05:17:42] UNKNOWN:
you Um, in the time section, what they have said is that all of them are not real. All of them are perfect, perfect, perfect. So I'm just wondering, I'm just looking at the questions right now. Thank you.
[05:19:49] Speaker 05:
I'm sorry.
[05:20:14] UNKNOWN:
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. you Thank you. I don't know. I don't know who that is. So, I'm going to sort of put it in here. I'm going to put it on the left-hand side. So, I'm going to put it on the right-hand side. . . . . . . Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much.
[05:28:46] Judge:
Your Honor, for the record, Mr. Walsh is back in the courtroom. Thank you.
[05:29:32] Judge:
Yes, thank you.
[05:29:37] Prosecutor:
Your Honor, before the jurors come in, could I ask? We have created a blank calendar for the jurors and for everyone. I believe it was a motion to eliminate and it was unopposed. Could I mark one for ID and then have the court officers pass it on to the jurors?
[05:29:53] Judge:
I'm fine with that.
[05:29:53] Prosecutor:
Any objection to that? No, Your Honor.
[05:29:55] Judge:
All right.
[05:30:01] Prosecutor:
and I'm giving one to the clerk.
[05:30:38] Judge:
All rise for the court please.
[05:30:44] Speaker 10:
Jury's entering.
[05:31:19] Judge:
Put us back in session, you may proceed.
[05:31:24] Prosecutor:
Thank you, Your Honor. Commonwealth would recall Harrison Schmidt.
[05:31:29] Speaker 20:
Oh, we'll wait until he gets back up.
[05:31:57] Prosecutor:
May we continue with exhibit 54? I believe we left off at 14 minutes and 33 seconds on the media player.
[05:32:04] Judge:
You may.
[05:32:05] Prosecutor:
Thank you, Your Honor. Ms. Gilman. No, no, not at all. Certainly not with me, and not that I have any information on him. Everyone who called me recently, like how to work all this, the same story that I had is the same story that Alyssa and Bella were passing over gave me, is that she works all the time and she flies home to see you guys, and she comes back and she's constantly working. She said that she would eat through the day and pass out a lot, so that was When we were young, we were seeing other people.
[05:33:13] Witness:
seeing someone else doing something like that.
[05:33:17] Prosecutor:
No, not at all. I mean, obviously, we were part of it. We spoke a lot. That's why people were like, don't worry if you haven't spoken to her. But we spoke all the time. It was this morning and evening. And everyone, you know, she had her rings. Talked about her husband and the kids. I mean, that just seems weird having a parent.
[05:33:43] Witness:
She had close friends here. I know she spent a lot of time in DC and when she came here she would talk with you, family most of the time. How did she have someone that she would spend time with here, like a girlfriend?
[05:33:54] Prosecutor:
Yes, so there's Raima, a very good friend of hers. She is the Head of HR for the Park Plaza Hotel. How do you spell that? R, I know how to spell the first and not the last name. R-A-Y-M-A, R-A-Y-M-A, R-A-Y-M-A, R-A-Y-M-A, R-A-Y-M-A, R-A-Y-M-A, R-A-Y-M-A, R-A-Y-M-A, R-A-Y-M-A, R-A-Y-M-A, R-A-Y-M-A, R-A-Y-M-A, R-A-Y-M-A, R-A-Y-M-A, R-A-Y-M-A, R-A-Y-M-A, R-A-Y-M-A, R-A-Y-M-A, R-A-Y-M-A, R-A- So when she was here, she spent most of her time with us, trying to think who else were her people that she would be meeting. Ryma was the biggest at CHAM, obviously.
[05:34:54] Speaker 20:
Sorry, I got distracted.
[05:35:09] Prosecutor:
Who else did she live and hang out with? Well, Peter Pure was here. Oh, Peter came by? Yeah, Peter came by. He didn't, I was like, I'm fine. He showed up anyways. He was like, he needs support. So that's that. That was his brother. Brother. He lives in Marshfield. So we're pretty close with them.
[05:35:31] Speaker 09:
So you know Peter and Anna?
[05:35:33] Prosecutor:
Peter and Anna went to, they had a leadership training together.
[05:35:37] Witness:
Was Jim part of that as well? Jim was part of my leadership training.
[05:35:42] Speaker 09:
That's how a lot of us know each other through this. in leadership training.
[05:35:49] Prosecutor:
Yeah, and she was what we call, her group was B2 and my group was B3. We raised over $200,000 from the pandemic for those positions. Really? Yeah. Oh, wow. That's awesome. That's part of the leadership training is the community service projects. OK. Something, Jim, that I continue to do. OK.
[05:36:17] UNKNOWN:
What do you think?
[05:36:19] Prosecutor:
What do you think? First, I feel like it's a bad dream. I'm having a hard time sleeping or thinking. And then the fact that my mother has an investigative team I mean, I have no idea. I mean, like, if you said she went to New York or Mars, anyone would be possible, because I have no idea where else she would go. And I talked to Candice today, who's a friend of ours, and I said, she's not someone that would have a little pay wire like that. saying anything that you want or take a large sum of money from one of the accounts and just, you know, she wouldn't leave us or the kids. I mean, it's not possible. What does she, what are you going to do for Megan?
[05:37:19] Witness:
I know she's got the jet blue card.
[05:37:21] Prosecutor:
Yeah, so I, everything's renamed the way it's set it up. Like my grandfather's taught me, you know, make sure your wife is always taken care of. And, you know, There's like bank institutions, stuff like that. Yeah, so she's got Liberty Bay. She's got one marble head brand, brand bank. She's Apple, Apple Credit Union in Virginia, which she's had for probably 10 years, 15 years. Apple Credit Union? Yeah. So all the money goes there. We've got the Chase cards. We have the Fidelity, which something happened with the fidelity card, which was in Belgrade, so that was, that hasn't been changed really. Is that, like, cancelled? Uh, and it was. I think we might have, it was where it was that way. And then the jet blue, which is the only one that I like. I don't know if you were prepared
[05:38:44] Witness:
Obviously, we want to contact the banking institutions to see if any activities are going on.
[05:38:49] Prosecutor:
Sure, I would, yeah. Have you all been monitoring this? I'm monitoring the chase. The fidelity, you know, nothing's been going on, but the chase, I use the freedom card, and she, the last time she used the freedom card, you know, it doesn't add up. and then she switched to the other chains. And then she got the jet blue, because she's like, hey, I want these 80,000 points. So that was the last sort of credit card conversation we had six weeks ago or something, four weeks ago.
[05:39:23] Speaker 09:
OK. When's the last time you checked the activity on these card accounts?
[05:39:29] Prosecutor:
I had to check today, because the freedom I would lose for a company I work with thresholds, which they buy from their vendor, we put it on the credit card and then they pay us back. So that's one of the, so I'm always checking that card. Okay, any specific activity on that?
[05:39:52] Speaker 09:
No. Any transactions you don't recognize? There's nothing I don't recognize, no. Okay. As far as travel, has Anna done any domestic travel in the United States in the past year or two? Anywhere?
[05:40:06] Prosecutor:
It's been DCA to Boston and then I think she went to Chicago or more. She went to Chicago to meet some of the head brass that she's inspired. That she wanted to go bring. And that was it though. She was complaining about it. Traveling was her problem. So we were looking to do something at some point.
[05:40:25] Witness:
So Chicago for one.
[05:40:27] Prosecutor:
Yeah. What was the destination that she really wanted to go to? Oh, Japan. She kept saying she wanted me to take a look at Japan. I said, yeah, absolutely. It was on my list. I had done a lot of business there years ago, I think, but she loves Japanese food, so.
[05:40:49] Witness:
Going back to our phone, you guys have a family plan or you have a family plan?
[05:40:56] Prosecutor:
Okay, so we have a family plan. When she got the job at Tishman's Fire, she's like trying to decide what to do. She wanted to take her phone over, so she ordered it over, and then she left the family plan that we have.
[05:41:12] Speaker 17:
So you have no access to like her?
[05:41:14] Prosecutor:
I have no access. Yeah, well, that's... You know, I thought you had that.
[05:41:24] Speaker 09:
We've been talking with them, but they're a big company, so getting information from their company. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, I thought they were just handing it right over. They always have it. You know what I mean?
[05:41:34] Prosecutor:
Yeah, if she was on the phone, I mean, I'm so, if she was on the phone, I'd just like to hand it right over to the guy right now. Yeah, all the phones, my mother, my uncle, her brother, me, and all of them on it, so.
[05:41:49] UNKNOWN:
Okay.
[05:41:50] Prosecutor:
Anna, Anna was married at the time? She was, yes. And what's the relationship like with her? They don't know what they're talking about. How long ago was that married? I don't care. I guess she got... She must have gotten divorced in 2012. And it's only been like the last three years. I keep asking, they were talking a little bit, but once we started advocating that was it. I said if you want to talk to Mark, it's been a long time. He wasn't a bad person. He was just doing the regular thing. But she said that every time she's reached out to him, he hasn't gotten back in touch with her. He lives in DC. That's what it meant. What's his name? Mark Knipp. Mark Knipp? Yeah, it's spelled Knipp, K-N-I-P-P. One of the chase cars is under that name. We don't use that one. That's the first one she got with him. But that, you know, changed her mind. So it's on a commit on the card. It's an active card, but we're using the $229 printed on it.
[05:43:25] Speaker 20:
She can carry a large amount of cash in there.
[05:43:28] Prosecutor:
So we've discussed this occasionally, but I think there's been times when she only had $50 with her. Like, she had $10,000 when she came back from Belgrade. She brought in a lawyer who was serving, who lives in what they're, oh, there was a, what's the, I'm sorry, quite a lot of it. So that would be a lot of money for her, but she has had it, you know, $2,000 to $5,000 at times. But her personal use? No, she just cared about if we had cash on fresh bowls or if there was some money I could give to it quickly. But then she would forget, so there were times when she became a lot of cash. But I don't know if she had a lot of cash on her. But there are times where I'd say to me, why didn't you go in at $50?
[05:44:31] Speaker 14:
But always dressing like you.
[05:44:34] Speaker 09:
There was no financial trouble.
[05:44:39] Prosecutor:
No, actually we're doing better than ever right now. We're facing restitution charges, but the new job and the way the real estate has worked out, we're in really good shape. Did you guys have any arguments or anything on New Year's Eve or New Year's Day? No, I wasn't up time on New Year's Day to have an argument. But New Year's Eve, everything was fine. We were excited about what she wrote. Peter saw what she wrote. It was very positive. And Jen was here. And it was kind of like, 2020 was a hard year.
[05:45:24] Witness:
And it's not.
[05:45:39] Prosecutor:
We're very aligned with almost everything that we do. We really have a lot of the same tastes. And ultimately, we defer to each other with what the other person is good at. But the biggest argument we had in 2022 was when she had to go to Delaware You hear a voice for two weeks after I went to Belgrade. So yeah, that was our biggest argument. And I couldn't get in touch with her or my mother-in-law. I think I contacted her for the first few days in Belgrade because her phone didn't have international. So I was upset about that. So that was the only other time this year that I didn't have contact with her daily.
[05:46:28] Witness:
So you normally have daily contact with her?
[05:46:30] Prosecutor:
Yeah, more than once.
[05:46:31] Witness:
What's the log that she called?
[05:46:33] Prosecutor:
The last week or December, the point of December, where there was like 24 hour gaps, which was really not normal. And then when she was supposed to be here and she wasn't, and I was like, I'm going to call this person before you're missing. the last couple of months and she's everyone told me to relax about it and then and then i did so i feel uh when you guys did communicate what was the conversation like um well just any anytime like during the last couple of months when she's been traveling oh yeah um i mean like yeah it's been like you know she always says hey hello hello and You know, sometimes I would go send photos of the kids. She would send me photos of what she's doing. We'd have a recap. At night, I'd be like, oh, I'm tired. The kid would run crazy. She'd be like, oh, there's no food. Did I do all the cooking normally? And I'd be like, oh, I'm going to get something to eat. And you know, this is the recap. Normally, as if we were together. Yeah, as if we were together without being in person. But there were some nights. December like 24th or 2nd or 1st. We didn't have those calls because I think I had been sick and she was tired so we were going to bed and the kids were going to bed. And you guys are out of town but I was going to go to bed and I didn't sleep well last night so I was going to try to get some sleep tonight. So it's not uncommon for us to live here.
[05:48:13] Witness:
Is it any mental health issues at all with Anna? Does she have anything, any indicators to you that something is amiss there or
[05:48:24] Prosecutor:
No, not for me. My mother might have a different opinion, certainly, but yeah, she's like that. Well, yes, I'm probably pushy. Not a mental problem. Sorry. But no, I mean, probably not. I really couldn't think of anything. I mean, she'd never...
[05:48:58] Witness:
ever had a physical confrontation? No, no, no. You know, for us coming in here, it's We want to find out as quickly as possible. We don't know where it is. There's many common reasons why people don't listen.
[05:49:25] Prosecutor:
We're trying to get the answers to those questions. Please feel free to ask any questions that you have. Don't worry about moving to a better standard here in New York City. Find out when you're looking for her.
[05:49:41] Witness:
Well, all right, I mean, one of the reasons someone goes missing is because they were, if you were injured or assaulted, did you do anything to hurt your wife?
[05:49:50] Speaker 20:
No, that's right.
[05:49:51] Prosecutor:
I wouldn't hurt my wife. I mean, I love my wife. All we want is to have her back, but Sandy doesn't work without her, and then we can't, we can't find her.
[05:50:01] Witness:
You guys have never had a physical fight, nothing like that before? No, no, not at all. I mean, there's no mental health, there's no financial problems, there's no extramarital affairs, there's no physical abuse. The only stress I'm hearing right now is the work, separation, compression from the combination of those two.
[05:50:32] Prosecutor:
Also, her mother being ill, she had a neurological event last year, and that's why she had to go to Belgrade, so we made pressure for her. My mother's had some health problems. And then the kids, it all adds up. I mean, I want you to know, I've been dealing with them. I mean, looking at it now, it's nothing from here to this, but it seemed like a lot a week ago. Being a father, the mother's not doing well, the legal problems, you know, the kids growing and you're worried about them. All of those things seem like a lie. I think we've discussed them both, you know, like I was like overwhelmed by the three children. We discussed splitting them up, like how to go with her. And I was like, how's that going to be for your job? I mean, we did not have a good solution. I mean, up until, I mean, I felt untenable until right now. I'll go back to that one. It's going to be very easy for me to work out because I still have my partner with me.
[05:51:54] Witness:
Where would you go to look for it? If you could go anywhere right now, where do you go to look for it? Do you have a favorite place?
[05:52:09] Prosecutor:
Yeah, we have a, yeah, we have a, we have a gala at everyone. It's awesome. We have hotels, we have hospitals, we have a favorite restaurant. was waiting there all day. I don't know. Anna was not someone who would just want to go out. She was adventurous, but not that adventurous. When she had a layover in, she had a layover in Frankfurt, I think. And I told her that her flight was delayed. So I said, go to town. She said, oh, I don't know. Not someone who would want to do it by herself. She would always want to do it with me, or at least someone else. But I like to think of it only being for me. But obviously, it wouldn't be something, she would just go off on her own. Like, you know, my father was really traveling by himself and seeing bigger meat and things like that. So, that was not my experience a lot.
[05:53:10] Witness:
And this tough week last week, you know, I think it rises to the level of wanting to hurt herself or anything like that.
[05:53:23] Prosecutor:
But she did, I mean, I remember, I talked to Alyssa about it today. She was a friend of Carrie Westbrook. And I guess she was going to go see her. They came up with the idea of watching it together. I don't know what happened. She was trying to get there, but a SIM card broke, and she was exhausted, not feeling well. I saw her, she turned me on FaceTime and invited me because a SIM card was broken. It's the first time she's ever said that. I say that all the time. It's the first time she ever said that to me. So that was new. And Jan said that she seemed different. But I mean, the extent that you're talking about, to this extent, is, you know, this is just unbelievable. Was that before or after Prima? Before Prima. No, it's similar. So we got it.
[05:54:29] Witness:
Well, I know you said you're willing to do whatever you can to help the investigation. I know we thank you for that. You know, part of that I think is trying to understand. I think if you would allow us to look through your phone and send to us downloading your phone and seeing some of the communications between you and her and like her tone and you said in the interview that she said that she may have used your phone again to receive stuff. I think it'll help us really Create a permanent timeline of the events of the first and the 31st and the first and maybe get a better insight into HANA.
[05:55:07] Prosecutor:
Is that something you'd be okay with? So just to be clear, you want to download everything on your phone?
[05:55:13] Witness:
We will download, the attraction, we'll download all the content to your phone, yes.
[05:55:19] Speaker 09:
Oh, that's a lot. What we're focusing on though is, well we're interested in, yes download everything, but we're interested in
[05:55:36] Witness:
It's a big ad, but there's a lot on the line. No, there is a lot.
[05:55:49] Prosecutor:
I don't know. That's one of them. I guess my request would be, I'm willing to do anything, but my only request would be like, you know, because Tracy might have called me today about what's coming on.
[05:56:02] Speaker 14:
Who is that?
[05:56:02] Prosecutor:
So she said before you do anything. I want to do everything I can to support this a hundred percent, but I gotta call her about it. She said before you do anything, like, turn off the phone or anything? No, I gotta leave before you do anything. Yeah, I mean, you know, she always wants to be here to talk to our folks, and I say, well, I'm gonna talk to them and give them whatever they want. But I just, I have to ask her quickly about that. I'm sure it would be fine.
[05:56:40] Witness:
That's all we would be interested in. The 31st and the 1st Presidents that are interested in your other tasks. No, I understand. you know, that you're represented by counsel in that matter. I don't, you know, I'm not legal, despite being a police officer, I'm not a legal expert, but I'm talking to your attorney, but I believe that requires search warrant for that stuff to be used against you, you know, and that's not what we're looking to, you know. How long would it take for you to download it? It would take, once we hook it up to the machine, which is in Canton, it would take Depending on how many gigabytes it is. Yeah, depending on where you're going. This is a small one. Then, I don't know, it could be 30 minutes, 32 hours.
[05:57:44] Speaker 13:
Okay, so now it's a ton of time.
[05:57:46] Witness:
An hour, a ton of time. Yeah, same as... I think it would be useful though, our investigation.
[05:57:59] Prosecutor:
I want you to know that I'm absolutely, that is my intention. And my only request is to talk to Tracy and let her know that that's what I want to do. At least let her give me what my exposure would be in life.
[05:58:15] Speaker 06:
Just so you're aware, in any case of mind, we don't have a client. We're not investigating a crime. This is a missing person.
[05:58:25] Prosecutor:
No, no, I'm fully aware of that, and I appreciate it, and I want you to know I'm not going to, I'll be ready quickly. If Fraser and I were talking in the morning, there would be the process, I would just give you the phone, or I would come to Canton. I do a lot of work on the phone as well. Well, we can kind of get it, and we've got attention to it here.
[05:58:52] UNKNOWN:
We have a portable device right here, The guy who works in my office that does it efficiently, I can send him over.
[05:59:03] Prosecutor:
Okay, great. So, you guys, gentlemen, I don't know if I'm supposed to be able to talk to Tracy about it. No one's taking your phone from you. No, no, no, no. I am not, but I don't... I'm not only interested in finding out, and I don't care what it takes, but I just have to make sure that I listen to all the advice I have. I do apologize, but I'm most likely to be able to do that, and I'll be able to do it tomorrow.
[05:59:49] Witness:
What possessions do we know that she did on her person?
[05:59:55] Prosecutor:
What's in her wallet?
[05:59:57] Witness:
I know she had a wallet, she can't bring us some of those.
[05:59:59] Prosecutor:
She has a ring in her wedding band, which is diamonds. Okay. So she's got the engagement ring, the wedding band, and then she has, I think she bought some other, she had a ring and a necklace, a match that she Then she would have a luggage with an atomic product, and she would have a product bag, and then what else would she have? She would have a Rolex or an Hermes watch. A Rolex or what? An Hermes. A Hermes, H-E-R-E-S, watch. She would have a small amount of earrings. She would be wearing all this. When she left? Yeah, I think she had that. I forget if she had the Rolex, but it was the Annabelle's watch she had. That she read. Yeah. It's not here now. Yeah, so she, because she had everything that, everything that Washington, D.C. What's that? All of our stuff is in Washington, D.C. This is like 2% of the stuff. Of this stuff, yeah.
[06:01:16] Witness:
and she's had a short life jacket, is that right? Yeah. But you don't know what kind of pants she would wear.
[06:01:27] Prosecutor:
Yeah, I'm not sure. I've had 100 boots with me, and normally she wears like leather boots, like probably boots is what she wears, so. So that was I. But by the way, is the leather one some good? Who was it?
[06:01:47] Speaker 17:
Does she leave any belongings here, like toiletries, anywhere?
[06:01:52] Prosecutor:
Yeah, she's got a couple things up in the bathroom that's mixed with all of our stuff. And then she has her pajamas and his underwear and different clothing. She's got a drawer over in, remember when I took you upstairs, there was a vines room? Yep. Yeah. One of the drawers there, she's got all of her clothing. So she has enough clothing to last for a day or two.
[06:02:18] Witness:
Have you had a conversation with Thomas about what exactly you saw that morning?
[06:02:40] Prosecutor:
Yeah, it's all, you know, it was a six-year-old
[06:02:48] Witness:
What do you got, buddy? Oh, did you just make some art?
[06:02:53] Prosecutor:
Oh, that's so nice. What do we have?
[06:02:59] Speaker 13:
Yeah, do you want to explain it?
[06:03:18] Prosecutor:
than I could do. But it just was that, and Thomas, when there was action, he loves it, so his mother came down, and then said, I gotta go, and one of the women, I love you, I love you, see you soon, and then she left. At first, essentially, she went to a taxi, And then I said, was the car up here? And he said, no, it was all the way down there. So I said, I didn't see the car. He said, no. And I was like, OK. And then I was like, yeah.
[06:03:56] Speaker 20:
It's pretty much what I want to ask him. It's heck of a lot.
[06:03:58] Prosecutor:
So it's, yeah. We'll see if we get the same answer. Yeah, of course, of course.
[06:04:03] Witness:
So if you saw a vehicle that she got in through the lobby seat of the building, it sounds like he did. But we'll ask him again.
[06:04:11] Speaker 20:
He kept saying it was a taxi. And I was like, OK. I can't remember.
[06:04:18] Prosecutor:
Did she normally take Uber or Lyft? Normally it's Uber, but she has Lyft as well, I know that. Have you guys ever called the local taxi company before? I have. I've called John's Taxi or something several times. I don't know what it was, but I'd pull it up, I would call them. I would call them in the mornings, and I'd just be looking at the time, because it was very hard to get.
[06:04:41] Witness:
You had to be like five in the morning.
[06:04:44] Prosecutor:
What was, how did you normally get to the airport? Uber. Uber, yeah.
[06:04:53] Witness:
Did you guys get in touch with Uber? That is one of the people that are getting medicals.
[06:05:01] Prosecutor:
Wow, there's a, we've called them as well, and they have like not, and I said, it's like, they sound hard, I can do it. Right. I was like, that would be helpful, yeah.
[06:05:19] Witness:
And that was under her name?
[06:05:21] Prosecutor:
Absolutely, yeah. Not a business account or anything like that? All of the apps and stuff were under her name. Or it would be under like her name? Oh, Titian's Fire? Or Nip? Oh, no, I don't think so. Nothing like that? No.
[06:05:40] Witness:
It's a pain to change names over in all your accounts, so sometimes you just leave it alone.
[06:05:46] Prosecutor:
Yeah, well, when we met, she had blue church and red. And then when we got married, she had blue church and red. And I don't think there's anything left. Maybe in Belgrade there is. And she does have a Serbian passport.
[06:06:03] Witness:
OK. She's Serbian? She does, yeah. Does she have US also?
[06:06:06] Speaker 15:
Yes, yes.
[06:06:13] Speaker 09:
Where does she keep the serving passport? Where does she carry it around with her?
[06:06:19] Prosecutor:
Yeah, she has it. Normally, she has a US passport, but if she carries the serving passport, she wouldn't carry it, because it's not useful. They won't be available here in the United States. Right. I'm just going to sneak in there if they're asking questions.
[06:06:34] Witness:
I don't want to ask them the same questions.
[06:06:36] Speaker 06:
I just want to see if they're asking all these questions. What's he working on? He's trying here.
[06:06:54] Prosecutor:
And he's got the happy face and the heart. But then he's got his spooky movie stuff over there. And then the colorful heart is new to me. Actually, no, it's not true. He enjoys that. He was doing a colorful rainbow before, but now he's doing a colorful heart. So the kids have no idea what's going on over there, having a grand old time with all of us. She's like, hey, I'll talk to you later. You guys eat some great chocolate. What's your schedule like tomorrow?
[06:07:33] Witness:
Pretty good. What would you require or request? Well, we would like to talk to the kids, but we have the VA's office and it's not at a police station, it's actually at a very nice house in Portsboro near Gillette Stadium.
[06:08:02] Prosecutor:
It's not too far from here, right?
[06:08:05] Witness:
No, it's probably about an hour and a half.
[06:08:07] Speaker 08:
So it's actually right behind Gillette Stadium.
[06:08:12] Witness:
It's a good set up. It's actually just a couple of couches and chairs and toys.
[06:08:24] Speaker 20:
You want to talk to Brian Henry?
[06:08:26] Witness:
Just bring the kids. Yeah, she was not speaking, I'm guessing, much.
[06:08:35] Prosecutor:
Some words, but William doesn't speak that. I mean, he speaks a little bit. He's like, I forgot about the phone. I think you can bring all the kids that you want to play with.
[06:08:47] Witness:
We're just going to have the person ask them questions about mom. The last time we had a recent conversation, I think you remember that.
[06:09:03] Speaker 13:
That's pretty much it.
[06:09:04] Witness:
And it's really kind of a nice, casual, comfortable setting for children. It's specifically designed for that. We actually use it for children who are victims and stuff like that.
[06:09:20] UNKNOWN:
It's really easy going and you'll see and sit down before anyone talks to anyone.
[06:09:32] Witness:
tomorrow.
[06:09:34] Prosecutor:
One more time. I don't have time, okay. Yeah, I've got, yeah, I've got, we're normally taking him to school, so I'll certainly be willing to organize that, and I'll talk to Tracy on the phone, maybe we can do all of it tomorrow.
[06:09:51] Witness:
That's actually, that was a good idea. That would be convenient.
[06:09:57] Prosecutor:
extra time. I know. I never should see. Yeah.
[06:10:03] Witness:
Yeah. We're timing. You're about seven in the morning.
[06:10:07] Judge:
Unfortunately, that's what time my house gets up.
[06:10:10] Witness:
Yeah.
[06:10:11] Prosecutor:
No. Right. How old are your children? One and a half and four. Okay, and the 40-year-old is starting to get his five-year-old thing back, right? Oh yeah, he's fresh.
[06:10:24] Witness:
Let me see if I can get the time here.
[06:10:33] Speaker 09:
It's usually a really nice moment, does. It's just a conversation.
[06:10:41] Prosecutor:
It's fine. Anything that you feel is going to help, I'm willing to do it.
[06:10:48] Speaker 06:
We're trying every avenue here. I appreciate that. We just need one little bit. All right, great.
[06:10:59] Speaker 09:
Something will jump out.
[06:11:01] Speaker 06:
Okay, I love that.
[06:11:08] Speaker 20:
I guess there's no one scheduled to be in there tomorrow as far as children being interviewed, so it's probably wide open.
[06:11:20] Witness:
I just gotta see what time the counselor is available to be there. Like you said, we'd rather get it done when the time is of the essence.
[06:11:38] Prosecutor:
Well, I mean, waiting till Monday makes no sense at this point.
[06:11:43] Speaker 17:
We have a lot of time.
[06:11:45] Speaker 09:
So we can talk in the morning.
[06:11:47] Speaker 17:
I'll try to get you a tentative time. Well, we can just plan on it.
[06:11:52] Prosecutor:
I don't know if we would like to have the clock work. Well, I would try to leave it at nine. Okay. Oh, hi, William. Oh, she had it. Want to say hello? Hey, buddy. That's a good one. Want to say hello? Daddy, can you just find my iPad? Your iPad? Yeah, I'm going to help you find it, okay? Okay. They made a terrible mistake of keeping it in like, as a young age, and now that's ruined everyone's life.
[06:12:27] Witness:
Remember when they didn't have electronics in bed when we were younger?
[06:12:47] Speaker 06:
Is there any Any part of the house that we didn't consider looking at, or did she leave any behind? Like any?
[06:13:04] Prosecutor:
No, but if you want to, if you guys want to take another look, I mean, uh, some of the, uh, some of the looking to that, if that's, if that's important, um, I know, um, you know, I know you've got to look everywhere. I'm not, it's neutral, so it'll work.
[06:13:28] Speaker 06:
Okay, so we didn't hit the attic last night, so we definitely want to do that.
[06:13:32] Speaker 09:
Yeah, okay.
[06:13:32] Prosecutor:
It's not one that you can walk around in. We tried that and it broke the ceiling. It fixed the ass.
[06:13:41] Witness:
10 o'clock, anytime, Kristen is the name of the council that will be there tomorrow, and I guess the time works. So 10 o'clock council came to you at 10.30? And they can go a long time, but those are, the long ones are when we're actually have like a specific incident where we're trying to actually dive into it. This instance is kind of more just like a conversation, you know, how's mom, you know. their sense of how mom is and stuff like that, I guess.
[06:14:27] Speaker 17:
I guess my answer is I don't think it's going to be my character's wrong.
[06:14:36] Prosecutor:
Well, do you think it would be more or less than an hour? For both of them, I would say an hour. Okay, so it's an hour.
[06:14:50] Speaker 17:
Would you have to get back or something?
[06:14:51] Prosecutor:
Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out the timing. You know, I think 10, actually 10 would probably work out just fine, so. Okay, so let's plan on 10 o'clock.
[06:15:00] Witness:
I'll give you the address before we leave. And we'll plan on that for about 10 o'clock in the morning.
[06:15:10] Speaker 10:
Okay.
[06:15:12] Speaker 20:
Yeah.
[06:15:20] Speaker 17:
Sergeant, I'd like to ask some questions about January 5.
[06:15:40] Prosecutor:
After that, well, actually, there's people talking in the other room. Who were that?
[06:15:47] Speaker 07:
The people talking on that table?
[06:15:49] Prosecutor:
No. This conversation is going on behind you, it sounds like. What's going on there?
[06:15:53] Speaker 07:
Detective Lieutenant Lopes and Sergeant Buchanek are interviewing the defendant's mother, Diana Walsh.
[06:16:00] Prosecutor:
And after the interview, did you have the opportunity to walk around the residence again?
[06:16:05] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[06:16:08] Prosecutor:
What did you see in the attic?
[06:16:10] Speaker 07:
I went in the attic. The attic's unfinished. There's insulation and exposed floor joists.
[06:16:17] Speaker 14:
But nothing else in there?
[06:16:18] Speaker 07:
Correct.
[06:16:19] Speaker 14:
Did you go back down the basement?
[06:16:21] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[06:16:22] Prosecutor:
What did you see in the basement?
[06:16:25] Speaker 07:
If you go down the steps, to the right is utilities. If you go left, there's like a refrigerator. There's some storage boxes, some trash bags, some cleaning equipment. Did you do anything with the trash bags? I kind of manipulated the bag from the outside. And what did you notice? I felt like there was a carpet sample or a piece of a rug inside of one.
[06:16:43] Prosecutor:
Did you open the bags?
[06:16:44] Speaker 07:
I did not.
[06:16:46] Prosecutor:
Did you have the opportunity to go outside again?
[06:16:48] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[06:16:49] Prosecutor:
What did you do outside?
[06:16:50] Speaker 07:
We checked the shed, the backyard, walked around the property again. And did you do anything with the pool? We shined our flashlights into the pool again, but it was looked at with the floodlights the night prior.
[06:17:05] Prosecutor:
Now, what about vehicles that night? Did you look at any vehicles?
[06:17:09] Speaker 07:
We looked at the Volvo again.
[06:17:11] Prosecutor:
And what did you do to look at the Volvo?
[06:17:13] Speaker 07:
We went through it more thoroughly.
[06:17:18] Prosecutor:
And did anyone give you permission?
[06:17:19] Speaker 07:
Yes. Who? The defendant.
[06:17:21] Prosecutor:
And what did you find in the Volvo?
[06:17:24] Speaker 07:
In the Volvo was a receipt and a cellphone.
[06:17:28] Prosecutor:
And did you ask the defendant about the cellphone?
[06:17:30] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[06:17:31] Prosecutor:
And what did he say about the cellphone?
[06:17:33] Speaker 07:
It was the eldest son's cellphone.
[06:17:35] Prosecutor:
And the receipt, where was the receipt from?
[06:17:38] Speaker 07:
Lowe's.
[06:17:39] Prosecutor:
Was there a date on it?
[06:17:40] Speaker 07:
January 4th.
[06:17:42] Prosecutor:
And do you know which Lowe's?
[06:17:44] Speaker 07:
Weymouth Lowe's.
[06:17:47] Prosecutor:
Now, on January 5th, besides this interview that's recorded, did you have any other conversations with Mr. Walsh?
[06:17:56] Speaker 07:
Yes, we spoke on the phone a few times earlier that day.
[06:18:00] Prosecutor:
Let me ask you, when was the first time you spoke to him that day?
[06:18:04] Speaker 07:
Just before 9 a.m. on that Thursday.
[06:18:06] Prosecutor:
And do you remember the substance of that conversation?
[06:18:09] Speaker 07:
I just let him know that we were working on the investigation and we would be in touch.
[06:18:14] Prosecutor:
And when was the next time you spoke to him? About 3.45 p.m. And what did you talk about in that conversation?
[06:18:24] Speaker 07:
I had called him and left a message he had called right back and he asked about media and a PR person and I had asked about if Ana carried large sums of cash on her and he said sometimes yes, sometimes no.
[06:18:42] Prosecutor:
What did he ask about a PR person?
[06:18:45] Speaker 07:
He asked if he should get a PR person or talk to the media.
[06:18:48] Prosecutor:
What did you say?
[06:18:49] Speaker 07:
I said that he's free to talk to the media, although I don't recommend it.
[06:18:53] Prosecutor:
Now, how long were you at the Walsh residence that night with the state police?
[06:19:02] Speaker 07:
About 8 p.m. to 10.30 p.m. And what did you do after you left the Walsh residence? We all went back to the Cohasset police station.
[06:19:11] Prosecutor:
What did you do at the Cohasset police station?
[06:19:13] Speaker 07:
We began digging into the financial institutions, but given the hour, they were closed and it was tough to get a hold of any record keepers.
[06:19:23] Prosecutor:
So I take it now we're getting into January 6th?
[06:19:28] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[06:19:29] Prosecutor:
What did you do on January 6th as far as this investigation?
[06:19:32] Speaker 07:
A large-scale search ensued. We brought in command posts and we established a staging area.
[06:19:40] Prosecutor:
Who brought in command posts?
[06:19:42] Speaker 07:
The Metro Elect command post was present and the Mass State Police command post. Where were they set up? Behind Stop and Shop at 400 Chief Justice Cushing Highway.
[06:19:51] Prosecutor:
And how was the large-scale search done of the area?
[06:19:56] Speaker 07:
There were canines. There was the Metro search and rescue team and the state police search team conducting an area search of that wooded area.
[06:20:07] Prosecutor:
Now, was anything recovered in that search?
[06:20:10] Speaker 07:
No.
[06:20:12] Prosecutor:
Sir, what was done to try and find surveillance video in that area?
[06:20:17] Speaker 07:
Neighborhood canvases were conducted.
[06:20:18] Prosecutor:
And how did you do that?
[06:20:20] Speaker 07:
We requested assistance from neighboring agencies, their detectives, to come in. We'd pair a detective with a trooper, and they'd go around checking residents and businesses for any sort of security footage.
[06:20:37] Prosecutor:
What was done as far as press conferences on the 6th?
[06:20:40] Speaker 07:
My chief, Chief Quigley, gave a press conference on that Friday.
[06:20:48] Prosecutor:
Did you have the opportunity to speak to any people as far as witnesses on the 6th?
[06:20:53] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[06:20:54] Prosecutor:
Who did you speak to?
[06:20:55] Speaker 07:
Jim Mutlu.
[06:20:56] Prosecutor:
And where did that conversation take place?
[06:20:58] Speaker 07:
The Coassa police station.
[06:21:00] Prosecutor:
And who was with you in that conversation took place?
[06:21:02] Speaker 07:
Trooper De Chico.
[06:21:04] Prosecutor:
And that day on the 6th, What was done as far as obtaining any digital devices from the defendant?
[06:21:19] Speaker 07:
We collected on consent some digital devices.
[06:21:22] Prosecutor:
And who went there to get those, if you know?
[06:21:24] Speaker 07:
Lieutenant Fanning.
[06:21:26] Prosecutor:
From what department?
[06:21:27] Speaker 07:
Mass State Police.
[06:21:30] Prosecutor:
And now, sir, when is it the next time you had the opportunity to speak to Mr. Walsh after the interview on the 5th?
[06:21:43] Speaker 07:
I spoke to him on the phone Friday. The sixth? Yes.
[06:21:49] Prosecutor:
And after that conversation, did you ever speak to him again?
[06:21:54] Speaker 07:
Saturday.
[06:21:55] Prosecutor:
Saturday. And where did that conversation take place?
[06:22:00] Speaker 07:
At the same dining room table in his home.
[06:22:02] Prosecutor:
And who was present for that conversation?
[06:22:05] Speaker 07:
Myself, Trooper De Chico, Trooper Proctor, attorney minor, and the defendant.
[06:22:11] Prosecutor:
And about what time did that conversation begin on the 6th?
[06:22:14] Speaker 07:
About 2 PM.
[06:22:15] Prosecutor:
Was anything returned to him on the 6th?
[06:22:19] Speaker 07:
The digital devices that we had on consent.
[06:22:22] Prosecutor:
And were you present for that?
[06:22:23] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[06:22:25] Prosecutor:
Now, have you had the opportunity to review the statement from January 7th?
[06:22:32] Speaker 07:
Yes.
[06:22:33] Prosecutor:
And does it fairly and accurately reflect the defendant's statements?
[06:22:37] Speaker 07:
It does.
[06:22:38] Prosecutor:
Your Honor, the Commonwealth would seek to have marked as Exhibit 55 the next drive that has the interview from January 7th.
[06:22:53] Judge:
Any new objections?
[06:22:55] Speaker 15:
Same objection.
[06:22:57] Judge:
All right. They're acknowledged. The audio from 1-7-23 is now marked in in evidence as Exhibit 55.
[06:23:17] Prosecutor:
Your Honor, with the court's permission, may I begin playing exhibit 55? Yes. Thank you. Ms. Gilman.
[06:23:33] Speaker 17:
The whisper is on.
[06:23:34] Speaker 09:
It is 1352, July 7, 2023. My name is Harrison Schmitt. I'm a detective with Cohassin Police.
[06:23:43] Witness:
Our present is Dave DeChico.
[06:23:52] Speaker 20:
Detective for the local county, who is on this.
[06:23:57] UNKNOWN:
Tracy Miner, attorney for Brian Walsh.
[06:23:59] Speaker 02:
And I'm Miranda Walsh.
[06:24:01] UNKNOWN:
Perfect, thank you. And we agree that I get a copy of the recording. Absolutely, no problem.
[06:24:06] Witness:
We were just talking about the emails and passwords that on the emails. What is this data? Go through all methods of communication that you build on. Because, you know, she has a cell phone. Within that cell phone, applications that you use communicate. I know of Glyphor. And does that generate a separate phone number? Or is that just within networks of texting, WhatsApp?
[06:24:41] Prosecutor:
Yeah, so she's used WhatsApp.
[06:24:52] Witness:
Do you have any applications on your phone that generate a secondary telephone number? No. Did she make any calls to you?
[06:25:08] Prosecutor:
Instagram. She might use Instagram. I don't know much about that. And the iMessenger stuff has been people calling her on that. It's been coming on my phone over the last week.
[06:25:18] Witness:
And password for Instagram?
[06:25:27] Prosecutor:
So I don't know if she uses it for that or not.
[06:25:31] Witness:
She usually uses that for accounts that we were hoping to get me on.
[06:25:48] Prosecutor:
So like credit cards. So maybe the bank accounts, I don't really look at the bank accounts, but Netflix and things like that.
[06:25:57] Witness:
I don't think I have access to that.
[06:26:14] Prosecutor:
She should put in my phone is what I had. Facebook, Instagram, email, text and phone calls.
[06:26:33] Witness:
Right, so that memo would mean something. With regard to the financials, we applied to both, we gave supposed to be five banking institutions that we guys use. Apple Credit Union, Marblehead Marblehead, Liberty Bay, Liberty Bay.
[06:26:59] Prosecutor:
Yeah, Liberty Bay is a credit union or something. And they have a, there's a, one of their locations right here in Hingley.
[06:27:10] Witness:
Or is that what credit unions in Virginia are? Is it Liberty Bay or Liberty Bay? Liberty Bay, Liberty Bay, yeah.
[06:27:16] Speaker 02:
And didn't she recently open the College of D.C.?
[06:27:21] Prosecutor:
I think she's using her app for credit. What about Gap for One? No, I had a credit card for Gap for One. Other, the money that was moved from the sale of the house to the escrow or 1031 exchange. And I think what else, I mean.
[06:28:26] Witness:
And what is the property that the chain was slated to go into?
[06:28:32] Prosecutor:
Well, there wasn't anything chosen yet. There was possibly Baltimore. But there was also, you know, talk about something here in Massachusetts. But Baltimore, I think, was the main focus. You guys haven't gone over to the side of Ann Arbor?
[06:28:47] Witness:
No, there hasn't been nothing. Do you have a couple other properties in there? A two and a nine, I never hear. And any other assets?
[06:29:05] Prosecutor:
I know it's in Belgrade, but you know, there's a condo there and probably a small bank account that earned another share.
[06:29:14] Witness:
Have you looked at other account banks in Belgrade?
[06:29:17] UNKNOWN:
Yeah.
[06:29:20] Prosecutor:
There's a piece of property across from the condo in Belgrade that her sister inherited from her father. And then there's her, I mean, it doesn't sound like she went international, but there's the country That's in her mother's name. It was never in her father's name.
[06:29:58] Witness:
And these are all, yes, it's all drawn in the US. They're all drawn in the UK, correct? Well, everything's drawn in the US. Well, yeah. Is there any business dealings? Is that my knowledge? No, that's not how America works at all.
[06:30:35] Prosecutor:
If she was doing something like that, then I would have zero information about it.
[06:30:41] Witness:
You know, we talked about everything, you know, when she was looking for the dog, she was looking for a new car, all these things. So her business life, obviously, is very different from the fire, and I was, you know, saying to myself, what the hell is this?
[06:30:58] Prosecutor:
That fire is all that. I don't think there's anything like that. That wasn't it? Only, only, you know, by my company. Yeah, it's a child security training company. And that's a new company that I've been working on with my business partner. So that's what I do when I'm watching the kids and doing other stuff. So that's my main focus, and I've been building it up over the last two years. Is that on the ground running? It's on the ground running. It's not probably yet, but we're We work with an AI psychologist, or a workplace psychologist, who's my business partner as well, and we come in and train high-functioning teams like yourself in multi-team systems. Right now you're reaching out to all sorts of different teams and have the ability to work cohesively with another high-functioning team. It's very important, especially for cybersecurity and for such cybersecurity breaks. And it's all about incident response.
[06:32:15] Witness:
Any major ranking losses with that?
[06:32:21] Prosecutor:
No, not at all. In fact, we're looking to close a larger European government. We've got five or six possibilities, and we have a partner in the UK called QA, where they sell a lot of trainings to Other businesses that you haven't been able to get into that are sold. That's the main focus, yeah. The trading card business? Yeah, the fresh pool, that's not really a focus. It's a mutual friend of Aada and I, so we've asked for support and we've been doing that over the last year or two, but looking to unwind out of that as fast as possible. Just whether it was that I was terribly interested in, I was happy to support Jesse, but also I don't see the financial benefits of that. Was there a lot of investment on your end for that? Or did you start that up? Yeah, I mean we helped him out with definitely a good amount of money, $50,000 or so.
[06:33:38] Speaker 20:
a place to recoup that money?
[06:33:42] Prosecutor:
Yes, the focus is to recoup that and actually to leave that money for restitution.
[06:33:50] Witness:
Yes. What was the investment in the cybersecurity?
[06:33:57] Prosecutor:
Yeah, actually I don't have the exact numbers on that. I guess it would be $80,000 over two years. We have a government contract now that's going to pass $40,000 this year, and it's for over five years. So things go well, and then we have to close any of the UK deals. But once that happens, we would be cash flow positive. Both my partners and I have not taken any salaries out of those yet, though.
[06:34:30] Witness:
Did you partner in the trading card business?
[06:34:35] Prosecutor:
No, no, no, no, no, no. During the pandemic, things have really cooled off in that market, and that's why I'm looking to unwind and hopefully, he'll be able to, he got to be one of his partners, and now he and someone else are going to run it themselves, and they're bringing it on a couple other people. He's invested over $100,000. Oh, yeah.
[06:35:24] Speaker 13:
Neither did I.
[06:35:25] Prosecutor:
They have some boxes, like $10,000. It's kind of insane.
[06:35:28] Witness:
So Blankard moved partners to how are you going to group your $50,000?
[06:35:35] Prosecutor:
I'm unclear at this time, but he is bringing on someone who's got a huge amount of inventory, which is what they didn't have. And that's going to be off the sales of that. I could remove my money definitely.
[06:35:51] Speaker 02:
We don't have a time table. sentencing, whatever, money has not yet been paid. People have a time period to pay it, set by probation. It's usually three to five years, typical. But it's always been It's a little complicated because Wright's mother put a bail money of $75,000 that she has pledged towards restitution. So once he's sentenced, you get that back. But she's not getting it back. It's going towards restitution. And I think you paid.
[06:37:35] Prosecutor:
Oh, in line with that. So $165,000. come to D.C. and we'll just pay that bill." And I was like, it doesn't exactly work that way, so.
[06:38:05] Witness:
So the monitoring that was on here, which was included at the time? It would have been included in October. I think so.
[06:38:27] Prosecutor:
I went down to go as it found when we got here and I opened up at the local bank. It's a, you know, it was just a one-year-old bank in the United States or in Massachusetts. And I thought, oh, this is great. You know, I'll have a, you know, personal account there. All the restitution money went in and I took, you know, so I put it all in there and wrote the checkout. So that was the whole point of that.
[06:39:04] Witness:
the possibility that she had an account that you didn't know about?
[06:39:10] Judge:
Would that surprise you?
[06:39:11] Prosecutor:
It would surprise me. Yeah, it definitely would surprise me, but I mean, it's possible. When she got the JetBlue card, she told me she was getting it, so.
[06:39:22] Witness:
Going back, just to go back a little bit, does the question seem to make sense? Is it a possibility that you would have been incarcerated in order to check into this? Possible.
[06:39:49] Prosecutor:
But also, I mean, my mother-in-law, they were not having it, so. Well, after all of this, because we've been apart for so long, she's like, why do we do all of this? Why do we struggle this much? I mean, you know, the cost of this house and running the townhouse and all the traveling and not being together.
[06:40:20] Witness:
Did you guys discuss the plan for the kids if you were to go, say you were to go in for six months, like where would the kids go?
[06:40:28] Prosecutor:
We discussed the plan of the kids going to DC without me. And we discussed that on September 1st, because we only got this out for six months. And I had said, maybe that's not a good idea. I don't know how long I will go to see you or the children. and you'll be all by yourself. There will be a lot of support. And we decided to do another six months here, which ends March 1st. Now, as we had a difficult holiday season because of, you know, not being able to see each other and her mother's illness and having to go to Elgrand to take her vacation there, and I fear, I said, maybe it's time to send the kids to not get a smaller place and we'll have to figure it out. And she said, well, let's discuss it. and especially after the news that Tracy gave us a few days before, and also what was Tracy going to say if I take it with the kids and I try to do it with the kids, and I said, but I also said, you're exhausted without the kids. Think about what that's going to be like, you know, having three boys at the house, and we're all ready to haunt, so there's a lot up in the air, so he's going to stress with that. Yeah, that's a big life change for what they need. She's relatively new. We were going to ask her if that would work out. She's in Serbia. She asked a few people if she was going to fly them in maybe. Her mother and my mother can no longer support the kids. They're just not in shape. They were a few years ago, and now it's just not possible. She's like my mother. I was like, your mother's in a room. She can't last. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're here. Well, I mean, they were watching, her mother did help us a few years ago with two, but it just wasn't possible anymore. So, especially after her, she had her lodging once again last year, so.
[06:42:28] Witness:
So how did, how did that conversation, like, where did that last, like, like, where did you go?
[06:42:37] Prosecutor:
Well, I left the message for her, and I was gonna get more information from Tracy, and I'm just gonna speak to Anna, and I'll just be have a huge investment.
[06:42:47] Witness:
I don't think it would decide, but that's where the thing lies. So, I'd like to go back to first, to the left here. We really need to find out what we did that day, and a good timeline view. I know that in a previous couple of interviews, the focus that I had left him was one of the six, and he got up at 730. Yeah, right. Why don't we just start at when you got out of bed?
[06:43:46] Prosecutor:
Yeah, of course. So we were going to get out of bed because Brian wakes up. And then when I came down, I didn't change in Brian because I had to go to the living room. Brian likes to come down the stairs and stuff, so I got down and Thomas was already on the couch. You know, they started wanting to leave early for work, and he's like, yeah, I already know, see you tomorrow. I'm like, all right, French toast time. So Brian came down, I made the breakfast and, you know, emptied out, you know, cleaned up after some of the stuff from last night's dinner, you know, emptied out the, what is it, the dishwasher and that stuff. And then I went up to get, William and bring him down for the breakfast. So then we had the breakfast, which is the kids love the French toast on days off. And then was it cocoa melon was, I think, what I put on for the kids. I think that's what it's called. Yeah. So there was that. The kids have their iPads too, as you know. There's a lot of new toys that we were playing with. So that was most of the morning. I didn't have the phone at the time, I think I emailed, I mentioned the phone. So Zach and Daniel, who are, we basically work every day, we're always in contact every day, so I wanted them to know that my phone wasn't working in case something was coming across to let them know that I could only get emails on my mother. So those are the three emails I sent out. I was gonna send out more, but I just didn't have time, but I figured it would probably show up. So Robin came in and, I got ready. I hadn't gotten ready at all. I showered and everything like that. And I had time from three to nine to leave the house. It was to go see my mother. But I had to go out and get the milk and the juice and some other things. Mainly the milk was the reason why I went to Shaw's. And then I came back and set that up. So I left at four instead of leaving at three. And then I drove up and saw my mother and then a couple of errands, CBS and Whole Foods is the main things that I remember. I talked to her, you know, the usual stuff to make sure everything was going well. And then I drove back and that was the main thing. I'd go back, you know, to eat or something like that. in your house the rest of the night? Yeah, that's it. My times are pretty straight. And if you've called, I'm 100% compliant, almost.
[06:46:34] Witness:
Right. So when you first left the house at, you know, Josh? Yeah, when I was little, I was just three. And I think you kind of moved to Walgreens in the community.
[06:46:46] Prosecutor:
Were you a Walgreens actor, because? I might have gone to Walgreens, I'm trying to think. I might have gotten some baseball cards for Thomas or something. Yeah, I only know about it because of the fresh pulls. Barnes and Noble is a place where you make baseball cards, too. So you don't often go to Walgreens? I do go to Walgreens a lot when I'm next to Sean. Yeah, so I don't recall. I was pretty focused on making sure I didn't have to know. So then after that, you come home? Yeah. Why are you here? Oh, I just got this stuff in the fridge and basically told Robin I was heading out. checked on the boys and things like that, and then I was, then I was gone.
[06:47:41] Witness:
Yes. 330.
[06:47:55] Prosecutor:
It's something called the landing.
[06:48:07] Witness:
It's like a harbouring complex or something.
[06:48:21] Prosecutor:
Like, it was a little difficult because I got lost because I didn't have the GPS. So it took a bit longer. I went the wrong way and then I came, probably, so what did I do? Because I noticed I was going 1A, I went 1, and then I came across on 114 or something, and then I was able to get up to, what's it called, the swamps going. So it took longer than normal?
[06:48:51] Witness:
It took longer than normal, yeah.
[06:48:55] Prosecutor:
How long do you estimate it took to get there? With no traffic, you can make it in maybe 60, 70 minutes. But I probably took a little bit over 90 minutes, maybe. So I was probably there before 6, but after 5.30.
[06:49:13] Witness:
OK. Where do you think you got lost? I went on one zip, went on one A, and I kept driving further than I had to.
[06:49:37] Prosecutor:
And she didn't know that I was coming because of all my call in advance. So it took a while to get in. She's like, who is it? She's like, it's your son. You're supposed to be here. She's like, you didn't call. I said, I don't have a phone. And she opened the door, and then I came in. And then we just talked for a few minutes. I told her what was going on, and then I don't think somebody went back out and brought some stuff from whatever she needs. A couple like, I forget what it is, but normally it's frozen foods that she likes. I don't know the exact name of it. And that's a couple things from CBS. She likes, you know, clean pads is usually, she can't have gloves and clean pads and things like that since the pandemic.
[06:50:33] Witness:
Okay. So you left your mom to do the CBS,
[06:50:40] Prosecutor:
Yeah, just in that area, that small spot area. Yes. Not that I thought I'd be able to stop. Sometimes we would stop and shop or, I don't know, at home we would spend about this time around. Well, they have the food, also the food for the dog is like 25% more expensive. And hopefully she doesn't stop and shop. So there are times where I would go to get stuff and obviously in a parking basket and things like that. Just a little bit.
[06:51:18] Witness:
Yeah, she does not require a huge amount. Yeah, just a little bit.
[06:51:32] Prosecutor:
We just discussed things, you know, she was like, what's going on? She actually, you know, we discussed, you know, what Tracy had said. She's like, you know, she basically said you have to see the family. It's one of the takeaways. And, you know, that was separate residence, she's independent, but much closer right now we're really struggling because she's been far away and she's like, I'm not moving, especially after the pandemic, and I'm totally not moving temporarily. So that's why she didn't move down. She was about to move down in Covaxant, but then we were moving and she's like, okay, well, until I know where you guys are, it's not happening. So I get that, that makes sense, yes. I don't live down here. Shipyard? Shipyard, there you go. Yeah, I thought that would be good for her. It was close enough.
[06:52:43] Witness:
Okay, so you guys are there and will be coming home. Do you stop anywhere on the way home? No. No gas?
[06:52:51] Prosecutor:
No. I don't think so. No. I don't think so. Okay. I'm sorry. Yeah, I was about to say he's a piece of stuff in a credit card, so if I did get gas I'd know.
[06:53:36] Witness:
Okay, um, so the trough cut comes if you come directly home. And then the big damage, I mean, line damage. Yeah, that's about right. Yeah, that's about right. In the visual directors, it has like a description of So we have to notify them of what we're doing, right? And what has that done? Has that done what you want me to tell them?
[06:54:07] Prosecutor:
Oh, no, no. Is that how it works? No, no, no. So with Marlene, every Thursday I send her an email. If you go through my emails, you can look through all of those. And I say, so these are the requests for the week. This is what I'll be doing at this time. to school or whatever it is. Now there are some other things that are constant, like taking the kids to school is all set up, right? So I have to take schools from Monday to Friday and stuff like that. So those I don't make requests for. The other things I have to see Tracy in person or see if my probate lawyer or support my mother or take the kids to a game that's not, I make those requests in advance. about, you know, changes. They're supposed to be 72 hours in advance, though. So same day would have to be an emergency situation.
[06:55:08] Witness:
I think the particular trip that on Sunday, I think it was the description that said mom's raw.
[06:55:25] Prosecutor:
So she was going to come over. I went and I picked her up and I brought her back to the house. We went on the 20th or something, or the 21st for her surgery. At that point, she couldn't do a lot, so she was at the house here, we were taking care of her. Then I drove her up, set her up at her place so that she could be comfortable away from the kids. She's unable to stay here for extended periods of time. And also so that when she likes to leave, so that I can have time alone as well. Then I went to pick her up and brought her back, and then she was gonna stay until And I said, I'll come up. And she's like, I had everything. And I said, OK, I'm all set for Monday. I'll come up and make sure you're all set for the week so that we're all, you know, everything's good. I'm glad you're feeling better. So we didn't know how fast she had, she recovered much quicker from the Scammer accident than the first one. So I went up to support her instead of drop her off so that she made sure she had everything. Her car was here because we brought her car in before her surgery and then she's like, I can drive, I'm fine. She left on Thursday.
[06:56:50] Witness:
So, you're here Sunday night, you're here for the night, do you go out on Monday? Do you have any scheduled, I can't recall.
[06:57:03] Prosecutor:
I think I don't believe I had scheduled time on Monday. I probably took, to do things with the boys. Normally it's for school, but they didn't have it. So I took Thomas for a room team cup for ice cream or something like that. So, you know, to mix it up a little bit. And what was the other thing? That was, I think that was it. That was the only time I left.
[06:57:36] Witness:
I don't remember anything in the morning. Other boys stayed here for a while.
[06:57:44] Prosecutor:
I don't remember. I think I had her come over pretty early because Anna had left, and at the time I didn't have the phone. If you look at the text messages, she's like, so when she left on Sunday, I said, hey, can you come on Monday? I'm all about it. So with the boys, I don't know what was happening. I don't have the phone. She said, sure. But she texted me and said, is nine OK? I was unable to get in touch with her because I didn't have the phone at the time. That's when she went out and went through all the garbage in the middle of the day, looking for the phone. Right, yeah. There was, yeah, there was a speaker, and then there was the coffee grinder. I was like, that was kind of weird. What kind of speaker was it? I don't know. It's something that Ana had gotten. But once it was clean, it didn't work anymore. So it all went back in. But I appreciated Robin bringing it all out.
[06:58:44] Witness:
Do you guys have any Google-based devices in there? No. Okay, so you recall the one-on-one? Yeah, that wasn't it.
[06:58:57] Prosecutor:
I think, yeah, usually I have to get a treat with the thoughts, and I try to one-on-one talk with Tim. William and Ryan also like it, so I'm trying to mix it up, but I don't have it usually a lot of the time. What was the good ice cream you got there? Oh, it was over in the end, that was good. I think, was that what he wanted? He wanted to go somewhere. He was asking about somewhere else. I think he wanted to go to Press. He wanted to go to Press, which is the, what is that place? Press is in Norwell or something like that. No, it's actually, it's a healthy place, but he thinks he's getting a chocolate milkshake, but it's just a chocolate banana. I don't know. He figured that he's like this. He's found it to be tasty, so I was like, well, that doesn't matter.
[06:59:47] Witness:
So, where's the Monday at? I mean, at what point do you really start to get genuinely concerned?
[06:59:54] Prosecutor:
Nervous? Monday. Yeah, when I had the phone. Once I got the phone, she was getting in touch with me. I was like, well, this is like, that was weird. And we're over time, basically. So, I talk to her, yeah, all the time. So, the week before or so before, we had the same situation. Yeah, for Christmas and everything. I didn't want to freak out at that point. So I was like, you know what, let me see what happens in the morning. And then that's when all the texts start coming. I was like at six, you know, I wake up pretty early. So I texted her, I was like, what's going on? That's when I got in touch with Alyssa. And she told me to calm down and my mother told me to calm down. And Sandra, her sister was like, No one seemed worried, but I was like, maybe I'm being insane. I almost called work last time. And honestly, no, he did not embarrass me at work. My husband called me around for me. So I was going to call on Tuesday, but I didn't. And I should have. And then I didn't hear from her. And then on Wednesday morning, that's on the work I realized too. So I called like, you know, I called the Mazda building, the crossing building, I called Jeff Chodd and his number. While I was looking for that number, Graham got in touch with me and said, Hi, what's going on? I was like, he was Brian Long's husband. Oh, thank you. Is she there? Is there a problem? I was like, not if she's at work. And that's when everything, that's when this Yeah, seven to two hours. Everyone's telling me to call them down. And I was going to call work, and the whole thing was like, don't embarrass her at work. That's why I kept texting. Where are you? I emailed her. I said, you're missing a gag. Who's Alexandra? Alexandra's sister. Her name is Alexandra. things for her. Alex, Sally, Saleh, so all sorts of, so she has a bunch of nicknames. That's on the sister. I saw you communicating with her through the live part.
[07:02:29] Witness:
The live part, yeah. And on the fourth, which is one to, you know, you'd already pulled it out and you can't get ahold of it. Yeah. But then she starts talking about the police, about the public police and how they come along.
[07:02:52] Prosecutor:
I was talking to petition-inspired people, and the guy, Huey, was gonna get everything in motion. He's the one who said, I'll call DC, and he met them, and he's the one who called Cohasset to get everything going, because he's ex-secret service and everything. So I mean, I asked, basically, I was gonna do it myself, and he's like, let me do it. And that's the human resource officer or now I'm going to tune you in with Huey. So I was like, OK. Because I've never filed a missing person report or anything like that. And she said, we have support for you. But there was no delay by doing that. In fact, I feel like things happened a lot quicker.
[07:03:43] Witness:
I think things happened pretty quick after.
[07:03:49] Prosecutor:
Yes. Right. Yeah, 100%. and he came over again and he would call me, a great guy, but it was a person before, but it was Huey who gave me the incident report.
[07:04:10] Witness:
Any Richard Walker in the room? No. Who's that? I'm Matt.
[07:04:29] UNKNOWN:
Yeah.
[07:04:30] Witness:
She spoke to me about it and I talked to Tracy about it.
[07:04:54] Prosecutor:
But you'll offer, I mean you'll offer more, you'll offer more. That's a starting point.
[07:05:02] Witness:
Yeah, before that.
[07:05:03] Speaker 02:
But before we do anything, we're getting approval.
[07:05:05] Witness:
No, it's important that we still. We still have to do the big public announcements while they're all in and off.
[07:05:10] Speaker 02:
Right, no, we don't want to do anything that's going to impede the investigation.
[07:05:14] Witness:
No, we're working in alignment with you.
[07:05:16] Speaker 09:
That's our focus. What I told you the next day about the media and probably pick it up and make inquiries, that was,
[07:05:30] Prosecutor:
that Vietnam has their own. Yeah, right, so newspapers are one thing. And that's why we brought Tracey here to, you know, basically cool back, you know, to a time where, you know, the residents are not operating really very well. And also to, you know, a protective for, you know, my other people problems that I'm having.
[07:05:48] UNKNOWN:
Yeah.
[07:05:50] Witness:
The main goal here is to find out. Yeah. We're getting a lot of noise from, you know, from everywhere. Do you have any other names?
[07:06:13] Prosecutor:
Do you have any other information? Is he the Uber driver? Richard Walker? I don't know a lot about him. I don't even know if he exists or not. I'm asking if you don't know. I'm asking that. Anna had a regular, I don't know if it was Lyft or Uber, but said that if someone went out here, she'd have to recognize. It was the same person. Oh, really? It would come out. I mean, I guess it's not a lot. It's not at a high. So two or three, I don't know how many times, but I never read the person's name.
[07:06:57] Witness:
No, just that it was, you know, it was very nice and, you know, good to drive it. No, I didn't get any of it, so I didn't think about it.
[07:07:09] Prosecutor:
I mean, that's... Right, but I know that she, normally you don't see her who would drive it twice, and I think she saw it at least twice and not more. Right. I don't know if that ever, yeah, I asked, are you doing that? At the time, when I asked, it was a while ago she said no. I said, are you going to just hire Nick directly? And she had said no. So that's where we left in. That was a month ago or two months ago or something. What branch of service was it? I'm pretty sure it was Uber. It could be Lyft. I never, you know, she was running both of the apps. So there were days when I was awake early on, and she was worried about she was going to make it to the airport, because we couldn't get anyone, or the 30 minutes at night.
[07:08:16] Witness:
Obviously, we're not missing the public. And thank people that are going to have their suspicions about you.
[07:08:26] Prosecutor:
Tracy is preparing for that. Yeah.
[07:08:30] Witness:
We know that's not lost on you. And it's important for us to iron out a timeline for you. Well, and stations are going to be quicker.
[07:08:43] UNKNOWN:
Sure.
[07:08:46] Witness:
But you know, that's why I really want you to kind of think about it. It never stops when you left on Sunday or when you went out on Monday. It's not that we can verify. We can't verify. We basically want to know where you left and where you're going and where you stopped. And what we also like to hear comes up about the, so far as the trip on Sunday, the first time you left the house was to go to jobs. Is that correct? Sure, if possible. Right. It's Route 1.
[07:09:48] Prosecutor:
I go right, and then I drive over to, I get over to the, I think it was Durby Street area, right, so I take the left and go through all that. Then I get up onto, I guess it's 93, is that right? There's something like that, and then I am, then when I get to Boston, I'm through Boston, and then one, I guess this was the one A that I stayed on, one somehow, because I got so used to not having directions, right, or having directions, not having directions. So there's the ship on the north shore. So you're on room one, there's a ship, the Christmas tree store used to be there, I think on the right. Yeah, so I think I was like, I think I've gone too far and I don't know how to use my GPS. around or did people want to exit? Yeah, I went and I went, I looked around and I think I took 114. I'm not sure, I just took a right because I knew that I, like, I knew my mother was here and I was like over here. I think it's a cross. Okay, so you got a cross on 114. I think so, yeah, that's, I remember that. And that brings you over to what, to what? Well, I think it brings me over to Lynn and then from there I, like, staked around No, I did not at all. This is a question. I don't really have a timeline. That would, let's say, 15 minutes.
[07:12:10] Witness:
So you estimated it to be about 90 minutes to get there, is that right?
[07:12:13] Prosecutor:
Something like that, yeah. So I left around four, so I should have been out of there by six. By six, or around that six o'clock time. To go to my house?
[07:12:25] Witness:
Yeah, I was in there, and then I got back, and I was there a bit longer, and then back home. Again, the errands were to Oakwood, CDS, Gary. And, um, he had work to do in the club. He was one of the people in the club at Oakwood. Yeah, he was the person who did the Oakwoods and then CDS, usually the lights, the alcoholic lights and stuff like that.
[07:13:11] Prosecutor:
You know, I was out and out being there for New Year's and she's like, okay, how are things going? I said, yeah, it's going to be a great night. And then she's like, is Robin at the house? I said, yes, I gotta get back. And she came late and I still She's got her phone, so there's a lot of discussion about that and then, you know, me getting to see with the kids, you know. She's like, you can't, Mike, this is going on too long. And, you know, that was pretty much it. And now that all of her, a lot of her surgeries are done now up here too, so it's a good, it's like, you know, it's a good time. I've done the cataract surgery, I had all of my, you know, my checkups for my lungs, so this would be a good time to go.
[07:13:54] Witness:
Do you have to have a conversation with her?
[07:13:58] Prosecutor:
Yeah, she asked, like, where's Anna? And I said she had to go for work. And then she was like, well, she's been working all the time.
[07:14:04] Witness:
And I said, yeah. Worked out with you. Yeah. I've talked to her before, and she didn't elaborate at all.
[07:14:15] Prosecutor:
No. You know, last time, on December 24, I was like, what's going on? And she basically said, you're asking a lot of questions. You know, what's going on? I was like, well, it seems really odd that you have to work like so late on December 24th. And she said, hey, I said I was going to take care of it. And then I said, all right. So I didn't want to get into it. Especially, she was obviously hesitant to tell me that she wasn't going to be able to stay the whole time. So I didn't want to, you know, we had a great night. So I was like, OK, well. And then she also said, I'm going to have more time for Martin Luther King Day, four or five days. And I remember her saying that, you know, until I work out, I'm behind. She got sick after. from home on Tuesday, and she felt like behind for the year. So it could have been that she just wanted to get ahead, but she said that there was something that was important that she had to be at. I assume, I mean, I haven't told you the stories I make up in my head, but if you're interested, I have no, there's no basis other than like, you know, what I thought it might be, but. I thought it was something at the Mazda, Mazda building, There's leaks, like an 8 a.m. on that. So I assume that something must have gone on over there. She's supposed to live right next door. So the fact that she's here and not right next door, so I might call her and say something like that, she'd be like, well, I have to get over there. So she can walk over, right? So the fact that she's always here doesn't get played. at the townhouse, and something went on with the Moslem building on New Year's Day, or any time, she could get up, walk over, deal with it, and come right back, we'd be fine. No, no chance, but she manages all the people and stuff there. And it's an in-person job, it's not something that she does over the phone and stuff like that. But again, that was something that's in my head, yeah. a lot of time over the holiday season. When did she actually tell you that she was? She alluded to it when she arrived on Friday. And she was busy on Saturday saying that, you know, she was running, you know, things were running behind. And then she basically said, I have to go back. She kept saying, I have to go back early. Then after jet lag, she said, I have to go back tomorrow. And I was like, well, that's somewhat surprising, but considering like the Thanksgiving schedule, the last two months, it wasn't surprising because she was supposed to be here for Thanksgiving, but that got canceled. which was only here for a few hours. She was supposed to be here for Christmas, you know, New Year, Christmas Eve and all of that, and then that got compressed and then she drove up, so she's only here from 8 p.m. to 5 p.m., 1 to 26, so all of that became a pattern that we were getting compressed on our schedules.
[07:18:19] Witness:
that you were forced to work so late on because of Steve who thought it hard to believe.
[07:18:29] Prosecutor:
Yes. No, I mean, I was like, yeah, I was complaining about it. That was the best way to explain it. No, I mean, no, I don't think so. I just was like, I said Wells is working at that time. But I guess they made a decision. corporate style. And she did say, hey, the 24th is a working day in retail. And that is true. What was her title? She was the regional general manager. There's GMs, yeah, definitely. Yeah, absolutely. Crossing did not have a GM for a long time, so she was playing GM over there. That guy, Graham, who called me was the new GM. And then Mazza was kind of her project because it was closing, so she was very hands-on over there. For the other buildings, there was less talk about the other buildings.
[07:19:36] Speaker 09:
And just so I'm clear on the timeline. She had a flight Christmas morning. She worked late Christmas evening. Yes. Okay. When did she actually show up at Christmas?
[07:19:46] Prosecutor:
8 p.m. on Christmas. Christmas day. On Christmas day at 8 p.m. Yes. She just drove straight through. Yes. Well, she missed her. Her flight was canceled. They were like, they're canceled and they're like, maybe we can get you out. That's when the whole storm came and then she just That has hurt her very, like, all out, all the time.
[07:20:12] Speaker 09:
Okay, so 8 p.m. on Christmas, she pulls him in.
[07:20:19] Witness:
Yeah. You know, he's... He said he didn't suspect I was lying to you, to be right, but if you're doing it, suspect you're having a bad one, or having... Suspect you're sleeping in and out.
[07:20:35] Prosecutor:
No, not when we were married. When we were dating other people, it was a bit different, but in the last seven or eight and a half years, not when we were three kids. After I was arrested, I remember writing our notes, and I said, this might not be the life I had promised you. If you want to leave, I understand. I said, no, let's do it together. And we were focused on our relationship. I really couldn't imagine that. She was very focused on work and family. This would be a, I mean, it would be totally like outside of her value system.
[07:21:18] Witness:
How would you react if you told her that you were angry?
[07:21:29] Prosecutor:
Yeah, I mean, I would say, Yeah, I don't even know. My first inclination would be like, we're going to get divorced. Yeah. I wouldn't even expect something like that to happen. But if she said, I mean, again, the story I'm making out is that she's like, I'm leaving you for someone else, not like I'm sleeping with someone. Well, I mean, I assume that if something like that happens, she'd say, I'm leaving you for someone else. Not like, oh, I'm having an affair. Kind of weird. I don't know. I mean, she's very direct. But we always had these conversations. I said, I know it's a little tough being separated. She's like, yeah, you have to get to it. But her whole thing was like, you and the kids get to DC as quickly as possible. That is not someone who's like, hey, And she was like, you have to get here as soon as possible. There was nothing other than that.
[07:22:40] Witness:
That was always our main focus.
[07:22:49] Prosecutor:
Yeah, it was certainly difficult, but we did see each other enough that we were able to be intimate on a regular basis. Not the same as if you were living with someone, but in some ways we took advantage of the time more than had we been busy at it. I remember her bringing that up. She said, well, you know, when I'm here, like, you definitely make that a priority. Whereas when we were together, you know, like, wow, you always wait another night, then here we can. So that was something that, that was, that we did discuss. But she didn't like this house. That was another thing. out here or working, I mean... Sure. I mean, anything's possible. It just sounds. All of the scenarios seem improbable, certainly that does too, but maybe I'm not. And I always see it one way. And then who would be with me? I don't even know. Yeah, I think I've been leaving was dot com. Word emergencies were, or, I mean, maybe the word emergency is being misused, but, you know, uptakes or something that, you know, like an outlier. You know, there was the time when the FBI, you know, hit the crossing building. She was, all of a sudden, she was, like, inundated over there. And then of the leaks at Mazda, TJ Maxx wanted to leave, her daily work, or things that we talked about all the time, and that it was a huge pressure for her, and she didn't have all the personnel in place.
[07:25:06] Speaker 20:
Just to backtrack on something you said, she came home December 5th or early December, you said? Was she supposed to stay for five days? Yeah, I don't know, for a few hours.
[07:25:16] Prosecutor:
Yeah, so basically, yeah, I guess it was the same thing. She was gonna come in on, my lady's a counter here, thank you. So she was gone, yeah, I guess she came on the 7th, which is on Wednesday. And she had left on the 23rd, so two weeks in Belgrade. She was gonna stay and leave on Monday the 12th. And then she told me she had to leave on the 8th. So that was the, so we were starting to get, I was starting to get used to it. I was like, wow, that's tough. And we did have a, I was upset. I had two weeks, you know, to celebrate and one day here, kids and I would be more than that. So. Your honor. Mr. Kilman, if I could ask you to pause. Would it be an appropriate time now, or would you go to sleep?
[07:26:18] Judge:
No, it would be a good time now.
[07:26:19] Prosecutor:
Thank you.
[07:26:23] Judge:
So Jers, thank you for your attention today. And I know from firsthand experience, and now you do too, how tiring it can be just sitting all day. So think about that. Get some fresh air when you can, either at lunch or at home. I'll leave you today reminding you of the four obligations that you have and that I expect to know you will be obedient to them. Don't do any research about this case. Don't speak to anyone about this case. Don't access any social media or news media. and continue to have open minds. I think of you as sponges in the jury box, taking in all of the information that's provided to you during the trial. Have a good night, but before you leave, don't think I'm oblivious to the fact that we're getting the first snow storm. I've lived here now a lot of years, and so I hate to say this out loud, but I will anyway. I don't have great confidence, because it is such a complicated business, what the meteorologists are predicting. I did ask my clerk to check earlier this afternoon, sometime between two and four, and it sounds like they're downgrading the expectations. But I don't want you to think your safety and your security is a priority to me, as is everybody that works here. So I'll be thinking about that tomorrow. And if it's appropriate to let you go earlier, I will if the forecast changes. But I don't want to jinx this. So I'll leave it there. Just have a good night. And again, thanks for your attention today.
[07:28:11] Speaker 10:
All rise to the court, please. Jurors, close your notebooks. Leave them on the chairs. Follow me.
[07:28:48] Speaker 07:
Thank you, Your Honor.
[07:28:54] Judge:
Please be seated. What is the plan for day two?
[07:29:17] Prosecutor:
Your Honor, we have approximately 40 more minutes of interviews to play. I believe I have about 30 to 40 minutes of an examination left of Sergeant Schmidt. There would be cross-examination. I leave that to counsel. And then we would put on Trooper Guarino. to go over the results of the Safari searches, the Safari history of the MacBook, also mentioning the iPad and some of the work he did on one of the phones. I anticipate There's two, there's binders of information that would go in through him and that would be reviewed with him.
[07:30:00] Judge:
Those are binders that you, I think they're on my bench, but are those the three binders that we previously discussed?
[07:30:07] Prosecutor:
Yes, Your Honor.
[07:30:08] Judge:
And remind me, I think I remember this correctly, that you have binders for each of the jurors. or are you going to do them on the electronics?
[07:30:18] Prosecutor:
It's better. It's a lot of paper.
[07:30:21] Judge:
It is.
[07:30:21] Prosecutor:
And I would easily break the machine. So that is the intention to do that. We are also going to call in another half dozen witnesses if we go fast. And I will give counsel the list of the extra witnesses we'll have because I'm not too sure what the cross will be. So I want to make sure we have more business available for us than we might get to.
[07:30:44] Judge:
All right, I appreciate that. And then I will keep an eye on the forecast. What I most recently read is they were downgrading it slushy, but the commute tomorrow leaving work might be messy. If it starts to get messy here, I'll probably cut the day short. Hopefully the weather will stay rainy instead of snowing, but we'll be limber.
[07:31:07] Prosecutor:
I also think that right now we're ahead of pace.
[07:31:10] UNKNOWN:
Good.
[07:31:12] Judge:
All right. There was another question. I'm just hesitating to get up because I feel like there's something else I wanted to ask you. Can't bring it back right now. So I'll remember it right after I step off the bench and then I'll pepper you with that either by email through the clerk or otherwise. Oh, I know what it was. I think earlier today when we were talking about the William Fastow text messages, I did see the final paragraph and went back and it was exhibit 199 that I was referencing, paper number 199, not paper number 197. It's motion eliminating number 13, which goes back to the same arguments with regard to state of mind evidence. At one point, I knew where to find some of those, whatever was marked for the grand jury, but I don't see it anymore. Two things. One, best I can tell, according to my records, the defense never opposed that motion in Lumine. So if the opposition is different than the substance of the opposition to paper number 199, specific to Mr. Fastow, the defense should let me know that. When do we think we're going to see Mr. Fastow?
[07:32:33] Speaker 14:
We're working on Thursday, Your Honor.
[07:32:35] Judge:
Okay, so everyone knows when it's going to be. And secondly, so that I can get prepared for those arguments, I want the Commonwealth to get me a copy of Mr. Fastow's emails. Text messages. Thank you.
[07:32:52] Judge:
It's not, I think, the one that the government would expect to introduce. I think it has some photos blurred out, but just for the court to see. And we did submit a written objection to statements relating to state of mind. We didn't specifically reference his. If it would assist the court, I can certainly have something by tomorrow morning, even just a one-page highlighting
[07:33:18] Judge:
So I do have whatever you objected to for 199, and I went through quals or quails or whatever the name, like how you pronounce the case at the time, and some of the cases that followed it. So I'm familiar with what the law is with regard to the state of mind exception. I just want to refresh my memory. There's certain of Mr. Fastow's text messages with Anna Walsh that I remembered from prior hearings, but this will help me. I'll take a look at this tonight.
[07:33:45] Judge:
All right. All right.
[07:33:56] Judge:
That's all I can think of right now. Anything, any other questions, comments, needs, Commonwealth first? No, Your Honor. And defense, anything you want to raise with me? Thank you.
[07:34:04] Speaker 10:
Have a good night.